Sayonara, R35: Nissan Japan has stopped taking orders for the GT-R

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/supercars/sayonara-r35-nissan-japan-has-stopped-taking-orders-gt-r

by teleforce • 1 year ago

153 154 1 year ago

t1234s• 1 year ago

Unless you live near a track or some really technical mountain roads a Plaid makes cars like this obsolete.

rubiquity2• 1 year ago

I own an EV and while the instant torque is fun, nothing will ever come close to the joys of driving a manual sports car.

dinkblam2• 1 year ago

nothing will ever come close to the joys of driving a manual sports car.

"joy" basically means: natural aspiration, low weight, manual gearbox, rear-wheel drive, hydraulic (or unassisted) steering and no traction control or ESP

spike0212• 1 year ago

while i agree the only thing i’ll note here is the aforementioned GTR (R35) never came in manual.

It’s definitely quite a bit lighter than the Tesla at least.

throw8394949888• 1 year ago

I love cycling way more, but then every random dog is trying to eat me. So ICE rules!

whatever1• 1 year ago

I totally agree. But why? The Evs have brutal acceleration and reach higher average speeds.

We should feel some excitement, yet I don’t even bother to have a spirited drive in an EV. The super fast ones just make you feel nauseous.

Szpadel• 1 year ago

retro computers are also obsolete but they still have considerable amount of supporters.

dinkblam2• 1 year ago

if you hate the process of driving then you are correct

tashoecraft• 1 year ago

In the enthusiast market we're seeing the opposite. Evs have made speed routine, but dull the driving experience part. 90's and 2000's sports cars with manuals are worth sometimes 100ks more than those with paddels, even though they are slower.

The gtr has been essentially the same platform since its release, when the competition has gotten extremely tight. Then there's nissan's issues, ceo getting arrested, money troubles, uninspiring lineup that mostly sells to fleets/rentals, thus leading to inability to invest in halo vehicles.

If the plaid was making cars like this obsolete why are we seeing insane demand for the 911?

numpad05• 1 year ago

Sounds like pure cope, considering Tesla obsolescence of late + this being literally 2007 car

BoostandEthanol4• 1 year ago

That’s if you view cars as boxes that go from A to B judged exclusively by their spec sheet. But if you viewed them as such, why would you have a Plaid instead of a basic long range S?

Maybe if the driver cares about performance, but is only capable of using their right foot. The only enthusiasm is being pushed into the seat at the peak of the traction of the tyres, for all of a moment before the speed limit restricts them again. All without any other theatre. I can see the appeal of being able to have that performance without drawing attention to yourself, but then you specifically clarify your statement by excluding tracks or technical (fun) roads.

…Strangely, I thought I liked the Plaid until writing this. I’m enthusiastic for what Tesla has done to the EV market, and the Model S appears to generally be a good car (all my experience is in the Model 3 my Dad has. I’d assume the experience is similar) but I can’t help but feel like they’ve made something so utterly uninteresting as their top of the line halo model. What could’ve been the GT-R of this era seems to have barely grazed the automotive community.

Tade03• 1 year ago

I don't think it could have been the GT-R of this era, because there is not going to be a GT-R of this era once R35 is gone.

To paraphrase one of my favourite motoring journalists (translated):

"Will EVs kill motoring? No, but only because it's already dead - tuning died several years earlier. EVs are only a transition technology. In 30 years driving will be this lame thing that only old people do."

I find it hard to seriously disagree with him on that.

Aurornis10• 1 year ago

If your entire concept of a fast car is one that accelerates really really fast from a stoplight every once in a while, Plaid is your ticket.

It does not replace cars like the R35 for people who like to drive, track, or modify cars though.

FireBeyond• 1 year ago

Absolutely. My brother in law has had a Model S then an R1T, and now a Cybertruck (that he plans to sell). The acceleration is fun as hell, when you do it. 100%.

Any of those three, thinking about cornering, handling, really driving, I have an RS 5, and that thing handles like it is on rails. Taking a corner too hard in his Model S and I was hanging on for dear life as I felt the control sliding away.

maximilianburke• 1 year ago

An added bonus is that money for the GTR doesn’t go to a nazi though.

ycombinatrix• 1 year ago

That is not remotely true. Maybe in the specific case you want a drag racing car with minimal effort.

randerson2• 1 year ago

Unless you live near a drag strip I'd argue that the Plaid's one trick is wasted on public roads. 0-60 in 2 seconds is not even enjoyable for most people. But if it was, I'd like that joy to last more than 2 seconds (without losing my license).

A sports car is something you wake up early on a Sunday morning to drive to a technical mountain road for no other reason than to derive pleasure from the human-machine interaction. Which you can do at legal speeds. Plenty of sports car owners do also go out of their way to visit the track.

How many Plaid owners excitedly set their alarm for 5am so they can enjoy a twisty mountain road a few hours away?

Aurornis10• 1 year ago

Sad to see it go, but at the same time it’s been mostly the same car for 15 years.

It was a performance bargain at launch, but the rest of the automotive world has been catching up. You can now get nearly the same track performance at almost half the price.

The R35 will always retain a special place in the automotive world for being an AWD turbo platform with a lot of modification headroom. I’m not too surprised they’re discontinuing it after 15 years though.

nxm• 1 year ago

Can you give me an example for the same performance at half price?

Aurornis10• 1 year ago

Camaro ZL1 is close on performance and nearly half the price.

Unfortunately also discontinued.

Base C8 Corvette models are surprisingly close at a fraction of the price. The top tier C8 models are even faster.

kart23• 1 year ago

C8 corvette as well

jcheng2• 1 year ago

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a23319884/lightning-la...

The GT-R appears three times, at 75, 76, and 93. The Mustang Dark Horse, Audi RS3, and Supra are all about $60K.

4ggr0• 1 year ago

meta: a bit confused about people comparing a muscle car to a japanese sports coupé.

there's more to a car than price and performance benchmarks.

insane_dreamer2• 1 year ago

Subaru WRX

j4511• 1 year ago

Nurburing times are impressive - both stock, and eventually reported to be modified GT-Rs for the track.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nords...

BoostandEthanol4• 1 year ago

It’s hilarious that Nissan ever claimed it was impossible to tune considering all the things done to it in those eighteen years.

Aurornis10• 1 year ago

Having a tuneable car is a regulatory risk.

Automakers need to take the stance that their cars are to be operated as-is. Claiming it’s not tuneable is important for appearances.

kllrnohj4• 1 year ago

Well, Nissan also raised the base price by ~$30k without really changing much of anything. It was a bargain at the original $70k price point. At the current $100k+ (or over $200k for the nismo!) not so much.

didip• 1 year ago

Nissan is dying. It's time to accept it already. The moment they created a plastic oil pan, it's game over. Nobody cares about engineering anymore at Nissan.

emptybits2• 1 year ago

The moment they created a plastic oil pan, it's game over. Nobody cares about engineering anymore at Nissan.

BMW has put plastic oil pans on a variety of their models for over a decade. N20 motors. The G90 M5. Others, maybe.

I'm not saying it's a good idea, just a counterpoint that a plastic oil pan design doesn't invalidate other good engineering.

numpad05• 1 year ago

BMW is considered relatively unreliable, categorized into "hasn't been that much expensive for me so far" tier by Japanese standards. So that's probably not a great counter example.

Grazester3• 1 year ago

You think Nissan is alone in this? You could have mentioned Nissan terrible CVT's or grenade prone variable compression engine but you stated something that in widely done in the auto industry now as being their issue when it the grand scheme of things doesnt even register.

jdietrich• 1 year ago

The R35 started development in 2000 and was launched in 2007. It has had a number of updates along the way, but you can only push an old platform so far. The R35 has already been discontinued in most markets because it can't comply with new regulations. It's sad to say goodbye to an icon, but the R35 has remained in production for far longer than anyone would reasonably have expected.

It probably doesn't help that the car is so closely associated with Carlos Ghosn.

ur-whale3• 1 year ago

The R35 has already been discontinued in most markets because it can't comply with new regulations.

Another thing to add to the list of things to love about the R35.

Rebelgecko• 1 year ago

Why is that something to love? Making it more exclusive to other markets?

TheJoeMan• 1 year ago

Unfortunately, in the USA, the regulations essentially just force manufacturers to put the engine into a huge body just so they fall under different (less-strict) emissions regulations. So banning small vehicles like this with okay gas-mileage (which I would consider "ok" to be in the 20's range), but we aren't improving the environment, since consumers are now just pushed to huge vehicles with gas mileage in the high teens.

nextos• 1 year ago

It's a really interesting car. Right there with the Honda S2000 one of the most interesting cars in the last 25 years. Sadly, both Nissan and Honda have failed to create a saga.

rconti8• 1 year ago

2 sports car purchases ago, the S2000 was near the top of my list, but came in 2nd place because it was going to be my only car, and I figured a 2 seat hatchback was more practical than a 2 seat convertible.

I think I made the right choice though both the S2k and the car I bought increased in value over the following 15 years.

I'd still love to own an S2k, but the way values have continued to levitate actually pushed me into a Boxster instead. I still think I'll own one some day. The s2k is one of the most attractive sports cars in history, IMO. I think that was helped by the fact that they never replaced it -- a replacement model always 'ages' the previous one.

j4511• 1 year ago

S2000's are great. The only thing I hear about them is they leak or burn oil, and once that's handled... good times.

snug• 1 year ago

I just purchased an AP2 back in July, i've taken it to the track twice already. It may not be as fast as some of the other new mid/entry level tuner/performance vehicles that have come out in the last few years, but I bet have the biggest smile on my face than anyone out there.

j4511• 1 year ago

The R-36 is most welcome.

okdood64• 1 year ago

Nissan's Skyline/R35 lines were largely wildly expensive projects that Nissan had no business doing, at the expense of their company's future. They were a form of a charity (bless them) to the automotive world. But then they had to pivot hard (see Carlos Ghosn) to be try to be profitable and killed their brand. (There were of course other issues than just these projects, though.)

RIP Nissan.

j4511• 1 year ago

Most makes have a leading model that exemplifies a lot of the qualities that the other vehicles are inspired by. Doesn't have to be high volume to be successful.

rconti8• 1 year ago

I've never driven the R35 -- it never particularly interested me, largely due to the dual clutch transmission but also because of the size. But I was in Japan in December and took the opportunity to rent an R34 GT-R which was just such a treat. I get the irony -- the R34 was a huge car for its time as well, especially in Japan. These cars always did punch above their weight, though.

As much as I have little interest in the R35 due to its transmission, I still think it was the correct choice- the GT-R was always the tech-forward, throw-the-kitchen-sink-at-it, performance-first car, it was never meant to be the lightweight purist choice.

4gotunameagain2• 1 year ago

Why does the dual clutch transmission repel you ?

I am aware that a stick shift has better "feel", but if that is the comparison (as I am assuming due to you mentioning the R34) a dual clutch is superior in every other way except weight.

Sure, feel is very important, but refusing to even drive one ?

Not judging, genuinely curious.

roflchoppa• 1 year ago

Yeah I was curious about this as well. I really like the DSG gearboxes that are used in the Golf, maybe the tech is/was older?

Aurornis10• 1 year ago

Some people just like shifting manually. It's a preference thing.

I agree that DCTs are great. Modern DCTs are amazing. I don't personally feel that DCTs take away from the driving experience at all.

It does get tiresome when people become snobby about driving stickshift, though.

numpad05• 1 year ago

Lately there's been a lot of fanboyism around manual transmission in online car communities. It's either just a pretend purism, or that "car" enthusiasts being mostly enthused with the power plant than the whole system.

bob1029• 1 year ago

I don't think anyone is arguing that the DCT isn't absolutely dominating from a technical excellence standpoint.

I think the argument is that the better "feel" is far more important than these engineering figures.

xnyan• 1 year ago

The shifts can be slightly rougher than a traditional clutch, and there have been some notable DCTs quite prone to failure.

aoanevdus• 1 year ago

Assuming you’re driving a sports car for fun and not to win a race - isn’t feel the whole point?

kllrnohj4• 1 year ago

well the dct in the r35 specifically is made of $20,000 glass that cannot handle factory power with factory launch modes and Nissan yanked warranty support after the fact.

So that transmission specifically is definitely to be avoided.

rconti8• 1 year ago

Feel. I enjoy driving any form of automatic less. If it has a powerband (eg, not an EV), I want to be in control of that powerband, and I want to be physically shifting because I enjoy the tactile sensation. FWIW, I own an EV as well as a car (SUV) with a conventional auto. It's just not my _preference_, particularly in a performance car.

Every paddle shift car I've driven (single clutch, dual clutch, conventional automatic), I just leave in auto mode. I don't find the paddles fun or engaging at all. I play with them for a few minutes, then let it do its automatic thing. I'm perplexed by people who use the paddles 95%+ of the time. If it's a superfluous action, I just stop doing it. (and then find myself annoyed it's in the wrong gear!)

I didn't say I refused to drive the R35, I just wouldn't buy one. I'd enjoy the _hell_ out of driving one.

parliament32• 1 year ago

Apples to oranges. It's along the lines of "if you're trying to get around the track fast, why not just use a motorcycle? It's superior in every way." Technically, yes, you will put down faster times on a bike. But it's not the same thing.

Likewise, stick shift vs autotragic is just not the same thing.

legitster• 1 year ago

I am aware that a stick shift has better "feel", but if that is the comparison (as I am assuming due to you mentioning the R34) a dual clutch is superior in every other way except weight.

This is kind of like saying an engineered protein smoothie is better in every way than a steak.

Most of us are not driving around town doing time attacks. Driving "feel" is really the only thing that matters for enthusiasts.,

kfajdsl2• 1 year ago

A DCT is superior in almost every situation except for when you just want to push a clutch in yourself. For a car that is primarily a toy, “fun” is a good enough reason to not consider a DCT. Obviously for lots of people getting the better performance is more fun, but I like driving manual and probably wouldn’t buying a consider a “fun” car without a stick shift.

spike0212• 1 year ago

FWIW the R35 is used quite a lot in Japan still for things like time attack. Despite the DCT it is a rather capable car.

j4511• 1 year ago

I wasn't sure how much the DCT would be different, to be honest, when you're going fast.. you're in gear most of the time. :)

rconti8• 1 year ago

I think that's a major reason it IS a capable car. It shifts faster, plus all form of autos are better at holding boost between shifts.

j4511• 1 year ago

Having driven one, being able to throw it into a turn on a track with maximum glee is something else.

It's hard to talk about driving this kind of vehicle without driving it. What it looks like on paper, compared to how it handles driving is pretty interesting.

For example, some say it can oversteer on a track. It’s got some heft. But how it handles it is something to be appreciative of.

At the same time, you can throw it into a turn and see how it unexpectedly handles it well..

Also having driven a Mercedes GT-R on the same track, which is a rear wheel drive car, it's a different kind of blast driving, and steering with the rear.

Edit: Having read about it too, found the experience of driving not as I expected.

LightAgain• 1 year ago

I got the opportunity to drive an R35 on track once, along with a 991.1 GT3-RS and a gallardo Spyder.

I didn't expect this at all, but the GT-R ended up blowing the 911 out of the water in terms of acceleration and just pure fun behind the wheel - maybe I was just a bit over-conscious of how much the 911 was worth when I was driving it?

It was an absolute laugh and I remember it just taking my breath away once the turbochargers really picked up...

Kapura2• 1 year ago

Nissan had a huge amount of credibility in enthusiast car communities, not just with the GT-R but also the Nissan Z cars. Unfortunately, they chose not to continue in investing in those spaces, so they have slowly seen what was once a strength evaporate. It's like watching a body builder lose discipline and get fat but still hang out at the beach thinking he looks like he does 10 years ago. Sad!

Aurornis10• 1 year ago

Unfortunately, they chose not to continue in investing in those spaces

Unfortunately, car enthusiasts chose not to continue investing in buying those cars

Annual GT-R sales were in the hundreds: https://www.thedrive.com/news/nissan-sold-just-one-gt-r-a-da...

The entire mid-range sports car industry had a big problem for a while where enthusiasts didn't buy many new cars. Everyone was waiting for someone else to buy new so they could buy used at a discount.

Neywiny• 1 year ago

It's like the death of the manual. Enthusiasts are up in arms when only an automatic comes out. But do they buy the manual? No. Did they ever intend to? Who knows. Why design a car for no sales.

Kapura2• 1 year ago

Porsche just had the best year for the 911 ever. I think the low-end sportscar market probably isn't highly profitable, but I think that if nissan had pursued a strategy other than "these sports car platforms were good once, let's never update them more than absolutely necessary" they would have the credibility to justify continuing to innovate closer to the top end of the market.

I think there's also intangible benefits related to brand image. Toyota doesn't sell millions of Supras or 86, but it's enough to break out of the "prius and rav4" mentality of the brand.

Strongbad536• 1 year ago

Guess I’ll get a Supra instead if my paper money ever pans out

ben7799• 1 year ago

My brother worked at Nissan back when the R35 was new and exciting.

It sounded like the ownership experience (at least in the US) was not good. Reliability and maintenance were bad. Word got out that it wasn't a fun car to own and then they got very hard to sell so the salesforce didn't even like them. Dealers didn't want to put them on the lot, etc..

And then it did the standard Japanese sports car thing where it languished without updates and got old and outdated compared to other brands' sports cars.

j4511• 1 year ago

It was always a stiff ride, but maybe the Fast & Furious generation only saw the cars and didn't drive the R-34 and R-33.

All good though, GT-R deserves the love for the fun it has, like the time it was banned from a racing series for winning too much

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Australian_Touring_Car_se...

yardie• 1 year ago

Well I feel like Mazda is the last true hope for performance production cars.

Izikiel43• 1 year ago

The mx5 is beautiful

0x4572• 1 year ago

My favorite car to drive. Exceptional driving experience and cheap.

Trunk is alright for groceries (for one or two people).

artificialprint• 1 year ago

Not true! Look at toyota, yaris, corolla! Even rumors of celica and mr2 making a come back

rozap• 1 year ago

Even lotus is getting enshittified :(

randerson2• 1 year ago

I wouldn't call the MX-5 a performance car, but it is certainly one of the purest sports cars on the market.

berbec2• 1 year ago

Did I miss Mazda releasing the FF model? I didn't know they had a performance car on the market currently.

jmb992• 1 year ago

Umm, there are quite a few performance production cars? Mustang (ecoboost or gt), corvette, ct4/5-v blackwing, Nissan’s own Z, golf gti/r, to name a few.

Does Mazda even make a “performance” car? The mx-5 is an enthusiast car, definitely not a performance car by pretty much any metric

insane_dreamer2• 1 year ago

Subaru BRZ enters the chat

outer_web2• 1 year ago

Surely this means we will see a 2027 R390.

AcerbicZero2• 1 year ago

Truly one of the greatest cars of its time, a snarling, cybernetic banshee that bent physics to its will; Now, just a fading watermark on the walls of history—a reminder of how high the tide once surged, before receding for good.

We've lost a lot of ground since the glory days of the mid 90's.

Klonoar• 1 year ago

I mean, this is really about the model from 2007+. That model in particular was incredible at the time and the fact that it held on so long is remarkable.

berbec2• 1 year ago

high the tide once surged, before receding for good

r/unexpectedhuntersthompson

AcerbicZero2• 1 year ago

Legit what i was aiming for :)

mberning• 1 year ago

I bought one of the first 2012’s available in the US. Flew out to St. Louis to pick it up.

It was a very cool car. Drew way too much attention for my taste. And it was very unrefined in many ways that I didn’t expect.

It was a special car, but I ended up not liking it that much. I sold it after about 6 months.

Maybe once a year I have a very vivid dream about it. Kind of sad to hear this is the end of the line for it.

SideburnsOfDoom• 1 year ago

After nearly two decades of embarrassing supercars, Nissan has

is this intended to mean "After nearly two decades of making embarrassing supercars, Nissan has" or "After nearly two decades of embarrassing the supercars, Nissan has" ?

nkotov• 1 year ago

Driven the R35 in 2020. A lot of fun but definitely felt outdated by then.

It's a shame that Nissan somehow had all the cards right (a working man's super car under $100k) and fumbled so much by just not innovating in the 2010s. Their luxury brand Infiniti suffered as much as well. I don't know what they were doing.

chasd00• 1 year ago

A joke i have on tap is when i see a GTR i say it has the second hottest rear end i've ever seen. When I'm get the inevitable follow up question i say "i married the first!". heh it still makes me chuckle.

wjgilmore• 1 year ago

One of the most fun experiences I have ever had in a car was traveling from Tokyo to the Friday night Daikoku car meetup in a GT-R Skyline. It was legit like being in a scene from Fast and the Furious, multiple GT-Rs cruising through traffic, girlfriends hanging out the windows filming with phones. Fire shooting out of exhaust pipes, it was unforgettable.

Sayonara, R35: Nissan Japan has stopped taking orders for the GT-R

Related Stories