The Loneliness Epidemic Is a Security Crisis

https://www.wired.com/story/loneliness-epidemic-romance-scams-security-crisis/

by lxm • 1 year ago

88 74 1 year ago

easton• 1 year ago

More and more I feel like online spaces are far more insidiously dangerous than anticipated. We have bots or malicious actors among the userbase explicitly to sow dissent and spin the quality of discussion downwards. We have algorithms that push content based on engagement, which isn't actually connection or anything resembling engaging with community. We then have online cultures that encourage lowering empathy for others and reveling when bad things happen to people who "deserve it", like "leopards eating faces" communities or punching women or whatever. I'm not being a centrist or anything like that but I feel online spaces actually socialize people to be lonelier by encouraging engagement via positions and activities that actively isolate us from each other, as opposed to genuine connections that come with say community service IRL.

__MatrixMan__3• 1 year ago

I think the next decade will include a shift where we acknowledge that the web is a dark forest and we stop trying to block the scams/propagandists/malware/ads specifically and instead we start blocking everything that isn't signed by somebody we've met in person and trust explicitly (or somebody that they have met in person, etc...).

We're going to have to learn a new kind of hygiene.

datadrivenangel• 1 year ago

Except that phishing means our trusted contacts will get popped...

fullshark4• 1 year ago

That's already here for me, and others I believe as the most interesting communication has moved to group chats. The open web is for advertising, and the best LLMs will be for information retrieval.

fullshark4• 1 year ago

I think it's more dangerous as a parasocial playground. You think you are making friends, but in fact it's a poor substitute and doesn't carry the risks/benefits of proper bonding with another human. This is independent of whether the other person is a bot or their communication is curated by an algorithm.

pavel_lishin• 1 year ago

Can you say more about those risks and benefits?

Eddy_Viscosity2• 1 year ago

A system is kind of like an unthinking lifeform. It will adapt to find ways to make itself stronger and to grow. It will use whatever resources it has access to to and does not care about (or is even conscious of) the damage it does in the process. All systems are like a virus in this way. Social media as a system is just playing this out. The social media system feeds on engagement and use and, it turns out, that isolation and polarization lead to more social media engagement. So it adapts itself to make more that, the users well-being is irrelevant. Corporate bureaucracy, capitalism, religion even are similar. They may have been created for some purpose (that was useful for the people who created it), but once they reach a certain scale, that purpose inevitably shifts to simple self-perpetuation.

Another example is a charity formed to help with some problem which it initially does well at. But then over time the charity matures and more and more of its funds are devoted to keeping the charity running, paying salaries, renting office space, paying for trips, organizing fund-raising events. Less goes to the cause. The primary purpose of all the fundraising then becomes to cover the overhead of doing all the fundraising. The cause is a second order consideration at best.

Social media has matured from being about connection, information exchange, community building. Now its just to keeping the clicks and comments coming so the ad-revenue and data-mining can be used to cover the cost of the servers, developers, and executive bonuses.

wink• 1 year ago

I don't get how or why it seems to have gotten worse in the last 20-25 years.

I was a very online teenager at the end of the 90s and I have formed friendships that last to this day. Or at least staying in touch. And it's not just me, it's the same for a lot of people I got to know offline who have different such circles.

Maybe because it was just a smaller circle of people? Maybe because it was so not normal that people were much more cautious? Or because half of the online venues were run by hobbyists? Or because no companies and bots and people trying to make money were involved. Probably the latter.

KittenInABox3• 1 year ago

I'm also a little confused, because I remember such common empathy-lacking rhetoric like demanding boob pics of any proclaimed female on the internet being common in my tween online years. Or sending shock stuff as a joke (2girls1cup, tubgirl etc). So its not like the internet didn't have troll-y cesspits. And yet somehow something has changed such that as a population we've been trained against forming human connections. Even 4chan organized against scientology once upon a time, that required at minimum real organizational labor and forming some kind of community action. I can't imagine any similar thing happening now.

arrosenberg• 1 year ago

IMO back in the 90s anyone looking to do harm on the internet was working alone or in a small group. That's bad, but not a system-level danger. It wasn't trillions of dollars worth of market cap conspiring against us.

PaulHoule4• 1 year ago

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_innovations

Early adopters of just about anything are smarter and better than the people who come along later.

hindsightbias• 1 year ago

paypal brought us freedom.

ronnier5• 1 year ago

Romance scams cost victims hundreds of millions of dollars a year. As people grow increasingly isolated

“People” is accurate but this is largely a male dominated issue. Men are targeted at higher rates and fall for these scams at much higher rates.

Men need to be taught that random unknown women will largely not message them at random for sex. It’s almost always a scam. These scammers are playing on the psychology of men’s deep desperation to meet women, and as it has become harder for men to meet women over the last decade, men are falling victim to these scams in large numbers.

cdrini3• 1 year ago

I don't think this is true, I've only ever seen women talk about losing money due to romance scams on the news. Do you have any citations?

ronnier5• 1 year ago

I work on this very issue at one of the world’s largest social media companies. It’s completely male dominated.

pelagicAustral• 1 year ago

Well, it could be a matter of woman, in this case, being far more willing to come forward and talk about their experience. The male ego being fragile and all... Sort of the same that happens with domestic violence, there is a segment of the male population that have been victim of abuse, but when push comes to shove, anything related to that subject is don't ask, don't tell.

HPsquared4• 1 year ago

Men generally avoid posting their L's.

PaulHoule4• 1 year ago

If it is older folks, it is more likely to be women who are unattached since: (1) women live longer than men, (2) women usually marry men older then them.

autobodie5• 1 year ago

Source? A lot of the investigative reporting I've seen covers women targets. Maybe they just think women make better stories, but women do spend more time on dating apps than men. Women participate differently, but they definitely participate, and women are extremely vulnerable to emotional exploitation.

ronnier5• 1 year ago

I work on this problem at one of the world’s largest social media companies. I deal with it 7 days a week for several years now. This is my life and it’s extremely sad as to how people are being exploited in these scams.

knighthack• 1 year ago

"...women do spend more time on dating apps than men"

How is that statement even true, when there are often more men than women on dating apps, by a significant factor?

There are also studies showing just how difficult women are to retain on dating apps; behind the scenes, a lot more has to be done in the first 24 hours to ensure women match and meet someone of interest so that they stay in the pool.

wakawaka28• 1 year ago

Nobody cares about men's problems. There's a whole Netflix show about the Tinder Swindler but nothing like that for men. In the last 3 months I think I've dealt with at least 4 different scammers on dating apps. Those are just the obvious ones. Then you sometimes get the foreign women trying to get into the country.

Men are often suckers in dating, far more than women. I mean at least financially speaking there is no contest. Even offline it happens a lot, with men getting suckered for drinks, "foodie calls," and random gifts or financial assistance.

codespin• 1 year ago

Age is also a factor. From stories I've seen in the news it tends to be much older women. From stories I've heard from friends it is young men.

999900000999• 1 year ago

Women absolutely make better stories.

I saw a crypto scam article with a fairly attractive girl who *could* of probably meet someone in real life. Instead she let a crypto scammer take her for like 300k. Her dad was scammed too and invested another 200k.

The entire story was shaped to make her look like a victim who could have never just said, wait you want me to put $50,000 into a random account and I've never met you in real life, I think I'm going to delete this app and talk to Billy down at Cafe.

There's no way on Earth, if some 400 lb guy thought he was talking to a supermodel and ended up losing his life savings would people react the same way. Everyone would correctly point him out as being an idiot, why would a supermodel want you, don't you know anyone who's that attractive is probably not on a dating site looking for 400 lb guys to go out with?

Although, what I'll never understand about these higher end scams is that at a point you can literally just book a flight to Berlin and pay a professional for services. These service providers have health care, access to affordable higher education, and arguably a higher standard of living than the average American.

Anyway, regardless of gender I think most media outlets are reluctant to look at the elephant in the room. The match group knows a lot of fraud occurs on their platforms, and doesn't take basic steps to ensure the safety of their users. It's to the point where you're much more likely to get robbed, scammed or worse then to actually meet a partner.

oulipo• 1 year ago

Perhaps, but then what? Why not just say "we should educate everybody about this problem"? Why does it add something to point out that men are more victims?

jajko• 1 year ago

Yeah if cute woman wants to have sex with you out of blue its either scam or you are so attractive overall that you dont need to look for women and its more of a nuissance that they keep hitting on you (I talk about balanced guys and not broken ones riddled with daddy issues who always sleep around)

cmdtab2• 1 year ago

What kind of male demographic falls for these scams the most?

throwaway48duf• 1 year ago

My sister and I hopefully banged into our father's head saying almost everyone on the internet is a trash connection and never to be trusted unless you have met them in person. Do not accept or respond to any messages on your phone or on the Internet from strangers.

Overall I don't think he ever got scammed with us banging all that into his head while my close friends' father has been scammed numerous times. They had to take away his bank account access after learning of him being scammed. They did so cause they know he still would continue to talk & give money to these totally fake ...beautiful young people who said they loved him.

Personally i think it's best to treat everyone on the internet as scammer until they have proven else-wise. On dating apps I will ask to see if they want to do a video chat or set up a date in a few days or more once we've connected conversationally. If they don't they are a suspect scammer to me and I move onto the next (flat out then tell them i think u might be a scammer ..i am not and want to show you i am genuine looking for a real relationship). Tho video chat soon-ish via deepfakes won't be able to be trusted. I saw a Chinese nationalist try to deepfake ID.me (IRS's authentication system). Thus in person in a few days to less then two weeks to meet for a date is best to ensure real or forget it!

knowitnone• 1 year ago

Prime targets for state sponsored espionage. This is not a new problem but a growing one.

ysofunny• 1 year ago

one person's evil espionage is another (significantly different) person's intercultural relations, albeit unofficial ones.

HPsquared4• 1 year ago

Mata Hari comes to mind. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mata_Hari

danielodievich• 1 year ago

This was the topic of an amazing podcast Scam Inc from the Economist https://www.economist.com/audio/podcasts/scam-inc that I finished last week. It's subscriber only but absolutely worth it.

Key points are:

"Pig butchering" scams were developed and mastered by Chinese organized crime targeting chinese citizens first, before going worldwide.

The crime is industrialized with call centers with thousands of people working on this. Many of these people are victims themselves, doing this against their will, trafficked from all over the world. Most call centers are in asia/asia adjacent, but also in eastern Europe and near Ireland

Amount the scams steal is $500B<amount<$1T, more than all illegal drug trade in the world.

Money is then washed via incredibly clever ways including sports betting. In fact there is very heavy connection to rise of betting everywhere.

Final clean money is invested into real estate worldwide. Heck, my little island has fancy huge houses bought by chinese sitting empty all year long, likely from this.

Nobody is safe from scams, especially the older/lonelier people. And yes, it is very much a national security threat. The podcast called out Singapore for doing a government sponsored and very empowered task force to combat it. USA was called out for sitting complacently.

Listen to the podcast if you can. Great stuff.

plutomeetsyou• 1 year ago

MI is not a tiny island but I see your point, especially over the last 20+ years of living there. However, wealthy people buying multiple mansions around the world and letting them sit there idle is also a story as old as time.

vorpalhex• 1 year ago

Yep my mom got caught on one of these - paying to "save a vulnerable puppy" only for the dog to "have a medical crises during transport", etc.

If you have a loved one who is vulnerable:

+ Make it clear there is no shame in falling victim or seeking help

+ Teach them to "hang up and call back" anytime someone calls them and asks for money or passwords, personal data, etc. (This just saved her from a bank card scam)

Currently my worry is AI voice impersonation because my mom genuinely doesn't believe that AI can clone a voice. My plan is to have JFK call her and give her an impassioned speech about being aware of scams.

ashoeafoot• 1 year ago

or vote for a bloody tytant who promises to lay the torch to a world order that seems unwilling and unable to do anything against this lawlessness?

At some point in the decline still being libertarian is like handing out fliers for dictators.

AbortedLaunch• 1 year ago

Hang up and call back may not save you on some landline systems, where scammers are able to keep a connection open when the other party hangs up.

lifestyleguru2• 1 year ago

Legislation of all EU countries treat more favorably sports betting than stock investing. It both astonishes and infuriates me.

andrejodc2• 1 year ago

Recently I joined Tinder and Bumble and got more matches with scammers than with real people. I was not aware of pig butchering scams until I got curious about a young crypto-loving woman who helpfully taught me how buying and trading crypto works. Being inexperienced with crypto I just wanted to learn about the basics how to get started.

Long story short: After some time the woman suggested to try out some shady crypto trading website with a small amount which indeed made me about 50$ profit and everything could be successfully cashed out. In the next phase she asked me to repeat the same with at least 5k to make 100% profit.

Luckily all my alarm bells rang and I called it quits. However I can see how somebody less critical could fall for this. We need systems in place to prevent these schemes from succeeding.

pfannkuchen• 1 year ago

young crypto-loving woman

Your alarm bells didn’t ring here?

c7THEC2DDFVV2V• 1 year ago

Alarm bells ring after the first like.

cmdtab2• 1 year ago

I know right. On dating app, of all places. Alarms should be screaming.

andrejodc2• 1 year ago

That's the point. You can't catch that immediately if you don't know what to look for. First the crypto part was mentioned much later. The profile was convincing. The woman said she is working as an illustrator and just mentioned that she does crypto in her free time. Also I know some friends who are also in the crypto space so it was for me not that unusual.

lifestyleguru2• 1 year ago

I met a woman who hit the "jackpot". Flew to India for "yoga meditation camp" where she met some Indian AI crypto investors. After coming back home she sold her inherited flat, "invested" part of the money into "AI crypto fund" and rents housing. I do not want to know what she is up to currently.

matrix87• 1 year ago

I just can't take the people who fall for these seriously

Not just the money part, but the whole online-only "long distance relationship" thing. Why would you spend hours investing your time in someone if there's no immediate plan for it to turn physical (doesn't even have to be sexual)?

It's a thing I see redditors talking about like it's normal or something

The Loneliness Epidemic Is a Security Crisis

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