Ford's electric Mach-E outsold the gas-powered Mustang in 2024

https://electrek.co/2025/01/09/fords-mach-e-ev-outsold-gas-mustang-first-time/

by zfg • 2 years ago

93 92 2 years ago

The gas car is an impractical vanity car, the electric one is a small SUV. Why is this comparison interesting?

linotype3• 2 years ago

Probably because of how much grief the Mach E got when it was first launched. “That’s not a mustang”, “it’s going to flop”, etc.

bigfatkitten• 2 years ago

It's an overall decent car even if Ford gave it a stupid name.

bigstrat2003• 2 years ago

I mean... it's not a Mustang. It has absolutely none of the Mustang ethos, and it was just an attempt by Ford to bolster the marketing of their new product. I think it was perfectly reasonable for people to object to that nonsense bit of branding.

timewizard4• 2 years ago

how much grief

Otherwise known as "market feedback." If only the company processed it correctly they might have been able to convince people to fork over medium 5 figures to get one.

bluedino8• 2 years ago

It flopped

jader201• 2 years ago

I’m rooting for EV’s over ICE cars all the way (I own one), but I agree — I always found it a bit weird/misleading that the Mach-E carries the “Mustang” name, when they have so little in common.

I feel like it’s just marketing to the “cool” demographic, similar to how Tesla is (or at least used to be) a big status symbol.

These two cars are targeting a completely different demographic and should not be compared/considered in competition.

Who said Ford’s electric crossover SUV wasn’t a real Mustang? The Mach-E outsold the gas-powered Ford Mustang for the first time last year as one of the top-selling EVs in the US.

Just because the vehicle carries the name and outsold the original Mustang still does not make it a “real Mustang”.

Again, I’m glad it’s selling well (and also glad it’s selling better than the Mustang). I just don’t think the two vehicles can be compared.

dotancohen5• 2 years ago

Real Mustang owner here, at least if you consider the '69 Mustang and the '72 Mustang to be Real Mustangs. I don't have them anymore, but they are forever burned in my driving habits.

What makes a Real Mustang? Head-turning looks? Acceleration? The Mach-E has both in spades. It's a new implementation of the Mustang formula, but it works. It out-Mustangs any parameter that a Real Mustang owner will tell you is the essence of his beloved pony car.

tuatoru• 2 years ago

Just because the vehicle carries the name and outsold the original Mustang still does not make it a “real Mustang”.

I just learned that this is an example of the "jingle" fallacy, one half of the jingle-jangle fallacy pair. The "jangle" half being: the fact that two things are given different names does not make them different.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingle-jangle_fallacies

nytesky2• 2 years ago

Pony cars have been dying for decades.

GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL. I’m sure most young adults are most interested in a comfortable spacious box with lots of screens. Hence all cars tending towards SUVs.

Teslas are famous for their torque, which is expected with electric engines, but how are their handling and brakes — sports car like or more luxury SUV floating on a car? I grew up driving a Trans Am (dreamed of a KITT!), and the brakes and the grip on the road was awesome. I’ve never driven a BMW or Porsche, but I expect they are even more gripping. But I think most drivers today aren’t into that, and more interested in having the car drive for them.

Hence mustang was a goner no matter what.

throwaway48476• 2 years ago

Pony cars are probably correlated with military recruitment.

Cumpiler69• 2 years ago

GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL.

Only those in dense urban areas with great public transport.

timewizard4• 2 years ago

GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL.

The statistics do not bear this out. In 2012 41% of people under 19 had a license. In 2022 49% of people under 19 had a license. However, it should be noted, that the total number of people under 19 has decreased since then, which is a normal population phenomenon. Failing to account for this can produce false trends in the analysis.

Hence all cars tending towards SUVs.

I think government regulations and worldwide markets have more to do with this than the imputed preferences of a single generation in the US.

But I think most drivers today aren’t into that

I think most drivers have never been into that, as I think most people see their car as a utility, and not a high performance entertainment option.

Hence mustang was a goner no matter what.

I think producing a 315 horse power 10 speed "EcoBoost" compromise to get to a whopping 26mpg was the death knell. It's a car that has no practical value in today's market. I don't exactly know who it's made for other than ignorant first time buyers.

EDIT: Since the site thinks I am "posting too fast."

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2012/

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2022/

"Licensed drivers, by sex and percentage in each age group"

cosmic_cheese3• 2 years ago

As a middle of the road millenial I only learned to drive recently and drive only as much as I absolutely have to. I don’t find it enjoyable unless there’s practically no traffic on my route, which is often not the case.

My preferred type of car is a small, efficient, highly practical hatch like the Honda Fit but those largely aren’t sold in the US anymore.

bluedino8• 2 years ago

Yup.

Camaro was canceled last year.

pkulak• 2 years ago

Good riddance to people who think they “know how to drive”. If they did that stuff on private tracks, fine, but in my experience they prefer to use the public road network, which is obviously built and managed for transportation only.

jauntywundrkind4• 2 years ago

Many car enthusiasts/gear heads used to be tinkerers & modifiers, used to have intimate knowledge of cars.

Cars of today are far more complicated systems, where there's no longer clear mechanical linkages connecting components together but instead opaque unobservable digital systems weaving the together.

The way cars are made has killed the ability to be a knowledgeable useful enthusiast. The car is just a commodity now. And sure, you can spend a lot of money to have your car modded for performance or looks, but there's so much less of a diy culture that genuinely knows cars. The industry has superficialized out its best fans.

I hope computing can a good similar fates, somehow (doesn't look great right now!). We don't even need material inputs to improve our machines; software gives us vast flexibility. If we can maintain some cultures beyond base consumerism.

kllrnohj3• 2 years ago

Pony cars have been dying for decades

only if your definition of "decades" is ~5 years? Otherwise the resurgence of the pony car was only like 20 years ago in the first place (5th gen mustang & charger 2005, Challenger 2008, camero zeta 2010).

pg52• 2 years ago

It's interesting because the EV was made fun of relentlessly when it came out, with Ford fans saying that it would be a flop.

Also, I'm biased, but I have to disagree with the "impractical vanity car" part. The current Mustang coupe is super fun to drive and affordable - the trunk is huge and it is quite comfortable for two people (even 3). The coyote v8 is a marvel of engineering - 460 HP with instant torque, but you can get 29 MPG with it on the highway (if you drive calmly). The turbo 4 is even more efficient.

To get anything comparable from European or Japanese coupes, you have to pay twice as much.

I apologize for the rambling.

qingcharles5• 2 years ago

No apology needed. The current muscle/pony cars are amazing vehicles. Mustang and Camaro are both hugely reliable, modern, efficient cars wrapped up to look tough, and in their base models they are ridiculously good value.

Pretty much the only thing against them is, as you say, they are only practical for two people.

thot_experiment2• 2 years ago

I don't think that the torque and horsepower are relevant when you're talking about practicality. I think the Mustang is good value for what it is, IF you care about it's branding and that sort of thing is valued in your social circle. It is absolutely a vanity car and if you're buying a car based on performance there's no reason to get a Mustang, any second hand electric coupe will annihilate it on performance per dollar, and in a straight line. The only reason to get it is because of what it represents.

That all being said I don't get the Mustang. If I were buying a car to have fun there are so many that appeal to me more than it does. My ideal car has bugs on the side windows.

baranul• 2 years ago

Well there is a difference between ICE producers wanting EVs to flop versus what consumers would buy and getting cleaner air.

If the same time and effort is put into EVs, we are going to get good examples, results, and sales. And that looks to have been what was feared.

pclmulqdq• 2 years ago

In other words, the big story here is the decline of the mustang as a status symbol, not the rise of the Mach E (or electric vehicles in general).

nxm• 2 years ago

In other news, Porsche Mecans and Cayennes vastly outsell 911s

randcraw2• 2 years ago

The insane price tags on 911s might have something to do with that.

philjohn2• 2 years ago

It's more than to buy one of the super rare models (GT3 RS) you need to buy other cars first ... and at the moment, that means a Taycan.

They're damn nice cars though, IMHO.

kllrnohj3• 2 years ago

Cayennes aren't exactly cheap, either.

Drunk_Engineer• 2 years ago

Ok, but which earns more profit? Ford's EV division overall loses $5+ billion per year.

https://www.automotivedive.com/news/fords-ev-losses-q2-earni...

thebruce87m3• 2 years ago

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/24/business/ford-earnings-ev...

The losses go far beyond the cost of building and selling those 10,000 cars, according to Ford. Instead the losses include hundreds of millions being spent on research and development of the next generation of EVs for Ford. Those investments are years away from paying off.

So the “loss” includes R&D.

passwordoops• 2 years ago

I'm looking forward to the day when share buybacks are also counted as losses

linotype3• 2 years ago

I’ve given up on explaining this to people. They know that’s why there are “losses”, they’re just being disingenuous.

zdragnar2• 2 years ago

That's missing the forest for the trees. They're losing money on every vehicle they sell. There needs to be a lot more R&D to get the vehicles to a price point that consumers will purchase them and they can actually make a profit. Thus far, their R&D has been a net loss for the company.

I'm sure at least a good portion of it will pay off eventually, but there's no guarantee of how much, or how long it will take.

constantcrying• 2 years ago

So the “loss” includes R&D.

R&D are costs which a company needs to pay to get a vehicle on the road. Whether the car, as a whole, is making a loss or not depends on whether it can pay for the R&D costs over it's lifetime.

Car production is very capital intensive, besides R&D you have the retooling of entire production lines as another major cost factor.

The real question is whether the sales of these cars will eventually pay for the capital expended. At current EV sales number that is not going to happen, but manufacturers like Ford obviously speculate on large future growth in demand for EVs.

At least in the EU expected EV growth was much larger than actual EV growth.

mulmen• 2 years ago

Hard to say. Profit per sale doesn't tell the whole story. Mach E and F150 Lightning help Ford offset the CAFE contribution of their high margin gas guzzling cars and trucks. How much would they be making on Mustangs if they had to pay CAFE penalties?

I'd be interested to know the profit/CAFE for each Ford model and how much they are spending on R&D for EV vs ICE.

mmooss2• 2 years ago

Lots of new technology ventures lose money at first; that's necessary. That includes other electric car manufacturers.

You sell what you can and at least offset costs somewhat, and also build marketshare, build infrastructure (dealerships, etc.), and learn invaluable lessons about everything from sales to service to reliability to performance, etc.

Or wait until you have the perfect machine that makes you profitable, then begin sales. That doesn't make any sense.

bluedino8• 2 years ago

Only because of the massive discounts and incentives. People were able to get 8-11k off and 0% financing.

Easy way to send sales up 30%

Temporary_31337• 2 years ago

Weird comparison as all they share is a name but still interesting to see how uneducated the car buyers are. EV Mustang is in my honest opinion the worst EV I have driven and I include golf carts and mobility scooters in this category. Yet it still outsells and ICE car which says something.

rhelz• 2 years ago

// EV Mustang is in my honest opinion the worst EV I have driven //

I don't doubt it but that just makes its sales all the more impressive. (One of?) the worst electric vehicle on the market still was better than a classic mustang.

rqtwteye• 2 years ago

I never understood why the Mach-E is called Mustang. They are totally different cars for different use.

pyaamb• 2 years ago

I read somewhere that their "Free EV Charger + Home installation" offer seemed to have convinced a lot of first time EV buyers

Ford's electric Mach-E outsold the gas-powered Mustang in 2024

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