I dare you to read this and still feel good about tipping

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dare-you-to-read-this-and-still-feel-ok-about-tipping-in-the-united-states/

by lykahb • 2 years ago

24 32 2 years ago

washingtonpost.com

mindslight• 2 years ago

This article talks a great game. Then we get to the third to last question:

The other argument they like to use is that if we actually had to pay these workers a wage the industry would collapse, the system would fail, many jobs would be lost, and prices would skyrocket. But here's the thing: that all has been proven to be completely false by the seven states that have completely eliminated this system. They have higher restaurant sales per capita, higher job growth in the restaurant industry, higher job growth among tipped workers, and even higher rates of tipping than the others.

Oh, hm? I didn't know some states had actually eliminated tipping! Well, I've been keeping my head down and maybe I'm just out of the loop. I'm going to have to look this up.

Our concern, and why we would never want to legislate that or push for a complete elimination of tipping, is that we don’t think that the employer will do it in the way people like Danny Meyer have done it

Oh, what? But you just spent the rest of the article talking about how bad tipping is? Well there must be some synthesis here.

> So kind of like how many other industries that have adopted tipping function. Like, say, coffee shops, where baristas are paid a salary at or above the minimum, and also tipped from time to time?
Thats exactly right.

oof. So uh, despite an entire article talking about what a bad system tipping is, we're not actually talking about eliminating tipping? But instead embracing the dynamic of even more types of businesses nagging each customer for an extra donation instead of directly paying their workers competitively? Which continues enabling most of the poor dynamics the article was just bemoaning?

I get that the two-tiered minimum wage is horrible, and if this article was up front with that framing I wouldn't have felt so cheated. But as it stands, with friends like these...

shiroiushi2• 2 years ago

It sure is nice living in a sane country where I don't have to even think about this "tipping" bullshit every time I go to a restaurant or cafe or anywhere else.

ilhuadjkv• 2 years ago

It's sneaking in. Resist and complain every time you see it

shiroiushi2• 2 years ago

I haven't seen it anywhere except one cafe in Shimokitazawa that has a tips jar on the counter.

euroderf• 2 years ago

I went to a banh mi place in Berlin. The proprietor put my card in the reader and then I saw him click thru the tip screen before he handed it to me. Much appreciated!

dagw• 2 years ago

It sure is nice living in a sane country where I don't have to even think about this "tipping" bullshit

5-10 years ago I also lived in such a country, and it was very nice. Now, not so much (despite not having moved). More and more places are adding the tipping menu to the card reader, making you jump through hoops to not tip. In another 5-10 years I wouldn't be surprised if tipping isn't almost ubiquitous.

strathmeyer• 2 years ago

Complaining about tipping on a article you have to pay to read is pretty funny. Tipping is widely preferred by the workers. That's why they don't do it in Europe ;)

n_ary2• 2 years ago

That's why they don't do it in Europe ;)

On the contrary, I do it frequently and very separately from the bill. Of course, it is not yet embedded into the culture.

(Edit: quote the part I am responding to and remove some remarks.)

rajup• 2 years ago

Of course, it is not yet embedded into the culture.

One can only hope it never embeds itself into the culture. One country in the world with this madness is enough...

throwaway19972• 2 years ago

I can't say I've ever tipped based on service and it's a hilarious and depressing falsehood that anyone believes this is what tipping is for. We tip to compensate for the owner-biased, dysfunctional society we have the fortune to be born into.

That said, I rarely eat out anymore, and when I do get food I order takeout. The obsession with service when I don't really give a damn about it has basically destroyed my desire to sit down in a restaurant and pay even more to have my water occasionally refilled. The constant "thank you"s and "how's the food" and pushing menu items on me is basically the opposite of how I'd prefer to spend my time eating in a restaurant. Just bring the food and a water pitcher and leave me alone, please!

bitshiftfaced• 2 years ago

Whether any one specific patron tips with it in mind, the incentive is still there in general. Sometimes people have bad experiences, and they don't tip better than average. Sometimes they have good experiences and tip well. The wait staff aren't stupid, and they're there to make money. Of course there's an incentive.

nunez3• 2 years ago

If we got rid of tipping and paid restaurant employees fairly, then this:

The constant "thank you"s and "how's the food" and pushing menu items on me is basically the opposite of how I'd prefer to spend my time eating in a restaurant

should mostly go away, I think.

(I eat out all of the time and am 100% with you. It's SO MUCH BETTER outside of the United States. Restaurants by and large don't have TVs (pubs/bars do, but it's usually one or two, not SEVEN THOUSAND of them, in every angle). You only see servers when you order your food, when you receive your food, and when you pay. They don't pretend to be your friends or whatever. You're there to eat; they're there to serve; the relationship is understood. They also don't ask for tips and will usually not accept it if you try, unless you're in a touristy area, BECAUSE THEY ARE FAIRLY PAID AND FIGHT TO PRESERVE THAT RIGHT. And I say this as someone who tips 50-100% when I go out.)

Ajedi32• 2 years ago

Getting rid of tipping is not politically or culturally viable.

What might work instead would be making a 20% tip mandatory, followed a bit later by including the cost of that mandatory tip in the upfront price.

notpushkin• 2 years ago

https://archive.is/SWgQA

infotainment• 2 years ago

Tipping culture is just an unfortunate mess.

Restaurant owners love it because it hides costs from customers and allows lower pay for workers (it does do both of these things very well).

Workers "prefer" it because they have stockholm syndrome'd themselves into thinking that drawing a smiley face on receipts will get them higher pay (it won't.)

ultimafan2• 2 years ago

It's absurd too how it starts to creep it's way into businesses where you don't usually expect to give a tip. I got new tires and an alignment today at one of those chain tire shops and they asked for a tip at the end when I went to pay, starting at 15% minimum going up to 25%. Which is just nuts to me, isn't that what the (pretty hefty) labor charge is for? It just baffled me. I declined but by the peeved look on the guys face and the way he turned the screen to me and waited it was pretty obvious he expected something. I don't understand who the people are paying 50-150$ extra on top of the crazy rates mechanics already charge that are normalizing this.

jfengel2• 2 years ago

It became a thing during the pandemic. There was a very visible inequity, where the "essential" workers were making minimum wage while literally putting their lives on the line. A lot of people wanted to assuage their guilt about that.

Once that became a thing, yeah, a lot of other places took advantage of it. It wasn't hard to turn on the tipping feature on your payment processor, so they did -- even if the reasoning was much less clear.

And of course it's a ratchet. Nobody turns it off even as the pandemic normalizes.

jrs235• 2 years ago

It shifts the risk of slow business onto the employees (servers) since the business is able to shift the lack of revenue onto them. One could argue it also shifts the reward when business is booming. However, that's not 100% fair. Because the business is willing over seat tables and sell food even if they don't have enough servers or kitchen staff to keep up. This results in a poor experience which means servers are working hectically and often reduces their tips (as a percentage per table).

HDThoreaun2• 2 years ago

There’s no doubt that waiters make more off tips than they would on a salary/hourly wage. Common in my city for waiters to make $40-50/hr. Comparable jobs make around $30.

n_ary2• 2 years ago

So, the point the point of 90% of the content is, women predominately get sexually harassed at restaurant jobs, this is correlated to tipping as it creates a power difference between the wait staff and the visitor, plus employers just makes up the difference of minimum wage and the tips earned, so overall tipping is bad.

To me, it sounds like a problem of restaurant visitors who use tipping(if I am to believe this article which despite data and claims, I have doubts about) to justify their perverted behavior. The problem needs to be solved by the employer ensuring proper protection at workplace and more surveillance(sometimes it is needed) to deter and gather evidence of such harassment.

When I(hopefully a decent human), tip a wait staff(regardless of gender or ethnicity), it is a thank you gesture for their good service, not as a pervert intent to grope them. Now if someone is perverted, they will find ways to practice their perversion, now it is the tip, next it’ll be the “bad service for which I am paying”. The fix is not where the article’s expert is looking at, it is somewhere else.

nunez3• 2 years ago

You're in the right to tip based on service.

Unfortunately, many gross people treat tipping like dropping a coin in the jukebox: give me the service I want if you want this $20 (or whatever).

I've seen people yell at or be otherwise disgusting towards service workers and tip >100% as an apology. I've heard of servers/FoH be asked for their phone numbers or to do lewd stuff for outrageous tips. People not receiving tips for the most minor inconveniences happens all of the time.

The Morning Show (amazing TV show) actually had an (extremely, but probably believable) example of this as a plot point in one of their episodes during Season 2, I think.

sharpshadow• 2 years ago

Good points but I have a questions about tipping and taxes in the US. Do one have to pay taxes for the tips?

I know restaurant owners in Germany sometimes are able to pay a smaller wage to waiters and compensate with tips, because they don’t have to pay taxes for the tips.

hrunt• 2 years ago

Yes, workers are required to pay taxes on that income. Whether they do or not is another question. When tips used to be mostly cash, workers would often just pocket the cash. The government can't tax what they don't know about. More often, though, tipped workers often work at the lowest income scales and thus fall within income brackets that require little taxation.

xtiansimon• 2 years ago

In New York hospitality employers can take a tip credit reduction to the legal minimum wage. Effectively paying 10.65 as wage provided the employee earns effectively more than the 15 minimum wage with tips included.

Employees pay income taxes on reported tips. When tips are paid in cash, employers sometimes require employees to turn in these tips for distribution on their paychecks. Tips are of course paid via paychecks when tips are paid by credit card.

Finally, employers can claim a business income credit for the taxes paid on employee tips.

(I work in hospitality services)

https://dol.ny.gov/minimum-wage-tipped-workers

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...

jfengel2• 2 years ago

Yes, you do. Which is why wait staff prefer it when you tip in cash. That makes it a lot easier to hide.

Though that doesn't always work. A lot of places pool tips. Everybody puts their tips together and it's distributed as part of your paycheck -- and the IRS knows about it.

NoGravitas2• 2 years ago

Workers are required to pay taxes on tips, but employers are only required to report cash tips at something like 9% of sales. This means that when workers were mainly tipped in cash, they could hide a fair amount of their tip income if they were averaging more than 9% tips -- though they were legally required to report it, not reporting it was essentially risk-free. I assume that charged tips are reported by their actual amount.

nunez3• 2 years ago

1. Why the f is this flagged?

2. This article is exactly why "Tipping is stupid, so I'm not going to do it" is exactly the wrong response to take with tipping. Tipping IS stupid, but given how food service is structured today, not tipping is markedly worse for the livelihoods of the people making/serving your food than doing so. Voting for local candidates who will push changes that will make tipping obsolete (mostly around fair compensation) is the only way we can get rid of it for good.

nathanaldensr• 2 years ago

Or people could just stop doing it without the regulation.

NoGravitas2• 2 years ago

The tipping system itself is bad, but until it is abolished (in particular, by eliminating the distinction in the minimum wage between tipped and untipped jobs, and by raising the minimum wage across the board), it is your obligation to tip well.

HDThoreaun2• 2 years ago

Many places have gotten rid of the tipped wage. Gone in California, my home of Chicago recently got rid of it too. Most people did not change their tipping habits one bit.

I dare you to read this and still feel good about tipping

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