US Navy X-47B Robot Fighter Jet Completes First Phase Of Testing

http://singularityhub.com/2012/06/29/us-navy-x-47b-robot-fighter-jet-completes-first-phase-of-testing/

by protomyth • 14 years ago

70 61 14 years ago

simanek• 14 years ago

Impressive, but seems like a really, really bad idea.

droithomme3• 14 years ago

These sorts of weapons move the balance of power to where the only reasonable defenses against the US are nuclear and bioweapons, and therefore that is where you should start investing your research efforts in if you are not an ally.

ghostfish• 14 years ago

How does this type of aircraft shift the balance of power? It doesn't appear to do anything "better" than a manned aircraft aside from not having a pilot to lose onboard.

breidh2• 14 years ago

It can ostensibly disable an adversary's satellite.

mkaltenecker• 14 years ago

The only consequences I can think of are that the cost for the military is potentially decreased and that advocating war gets easier.

The first one is a maybe. I’m willing to bet that you still need a lot of people to make those things fly, they are also potentially more complicated machines and I’m not sure how the cost of pilots (and replacing them if one is killed) figures into this.

The second one seems significant to me. It seems that drones already make it pretty sure you are nowhere safe if the US don’t like you – even if you are a relatively low priority. Presidents (especially Obama) have become extremely willing to use them for just about anything.

Dove2• 14 years ago

You can attempt a lot more of the type of mission in which both your target and your aircraft are destroyed.

I've heard folks who work on drones say that once you've fired all your munitions, you have one munition left.

mbenjaminsmith• 14 years ago

1. With in-air refueling, a greatly increased time in the air vs manned aircraft.

2. Ability to outmaneuver any manned aircraft by exceeding the human g limit.

3. Greatly lowered cost in both manufacture and pilot training (or lack of).

4. When fully realized, AI that is superior to human pilots -- increasing overall combat effectiveness and reducing error.

forgotusername• 14 years ago

These are still vulnerable to electronic countermeasures, not to mention plain old missile attacks on their requisite communications infrastructure (satellites presumably).

I imagine if any modern power got into a real fight with the US, the first volley of missiles would be headed for space.

protomyth8• 14 years ago

The US Navy has a massive superiority over every other navy in the world for a good many years. This is just the next step.

The recently release radar information (tracking raindrops) was probably a bit of a warning telling others that their new generation of missiles was not going to work as well as they think. Probably much like NASA showing people underground rivers was designed to tell others hiding ICBMs was a waste.

samstave• 14 years ago

What is the underground rivers thing you mention?

mikeash• 14 years ago

WMD or insurgency has been the only realistic way to militarily oppose the US for a long, long time now. That's nothing new.

gmrple• 14 years ago

Least ways not in an offensive manner. Though that could be a faulty assumption, we (the US) haven't had any real military attacks on our soil in a while.

molmalo3• 14 years ago

Actually, in conventional war, as Millennium Challenge 2002 clearly showed [1], using smart tactics a technologically inferior army can effectively defeat the US military.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

mixmax• 14 years ago

actually with the adversaries the US is currently engaged with the most reasonable defense (from the point of the adversaries) is terrorism.

It's cheap and effective, and arguably no more unfair than bombing civilians that don't stand a fighting chance against a drone controlled by an operator thousand of miles away.

This is the major downside of modern American one-sided warfare.

mindslight• 14 years ago

Not only from the point of the adversaries, but to anyone who's thought about the actual role each "side" is playing. But don't worry fellow Americans, just keep supporting the intractable and autonomous government.

vibrunazo• 14 years ago

The most efficient military defense countries are engaging in is developing economic relationships. The number one reason why the US start a military war against China in the foreseeable future. Is not because of their super advanced autonomous airships. But because doing so would be shooting their own foot. As both US and China are highly dependent on one another.

Plenty of small countries around the world have very little military but are completely safe from US attacks because of economic relationships. Modern economics are the most powerful weapon for peace. Not autonomous vehicles nor terrorism.

Gustomaximus• 14 years ago

I would think this is going to increase the push into cyber warfare. In the same way we saw a done being hijacked recently through GPS I would think taking more complete control of your enemies drones, or at the least disabling their sensors and ability to operate will become a big military push.

sien• 14 years ago

No, the reasonable defense against the US is already working.

Debt.

angstrom2• 14 years ago

So how many G's can one of these pull? I imagine it's much higher than any human fighter since the upper limit is what can safely hold the craft together.

joeguilmette• 14 years ago

I wouldn't imagine it needs to pull very much at all. There are no more dogfights anymore, it's just electronic countermeasures vs electronic detection, jamming and spoofing.

Dove2• 14 years ago

I would imagine it's designed to take a lot of g's. Not for dogfighting, but for carrier landings, which can be pretty rough. I know that involves completely different stresses on the airframe than maneuvering, but Google up some of the drop tests they put other aircraft through. Intense stuff!

antidoh4• 14 years ago

Dodging SAMs could involve a lot of Gs.

gcb• 14 years ago

Most disappointing title ever.

It's just an unmanned jet.

was expecting something like robotech/macross

ygmelnikova• 14 years ago

Shouldn't that title read "Cyberdyne Systems X-47B"?

ThomBush• 14 years ago

Super high tech, advanced-robot fighter jet... not able to retract landing gear? (from video). Did that bother anyone else?

russell• 14 years ago

I imagine it can retract its landing gear. It was probably left down for the test; one less thing to fail.

protomyth8• 14 years ago

Generally, the first test flights won't have an aircraft raise its gear.

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2011/02/0...

smallblacksun• 14 years ago

The article has a picture of it with it's landing gear up.

antoinevg• 14 years ago

Eliezer's unfriendly AI does not need to be smarter necessarily, just better armed.

KwanEsq• 14 years ago

I wonder how they develop the code for these systems. You'd hope it might be something approaching the standards, rigours, and processes of the people who write the Space Shuttle code, but I have the sad feeling it probably isn't.

ThomPete2• 14 years ago

I am pretty sure it is pretty strickt. As far as I understand code for airplanes in general is much more encapsulated to do one thing well without any resuability of the code as such. It's in other words strictly causal.

Fighter jets might have more of an abstract layer for all the AI stuff so this might leave more room for an actual OS to reprogram and optimize on top off.

ThomPete2• 14 years ago

It might be perfectly possible that I am completely off on this. But my understanding from reading about it is that software is written very differently in airplanes than in most other fields.

Down vote is fine if I am wrong. But would appreciate to learn how I am wrong then.

dexen• 14 years ago

Joint Strike Fighter programme (produced F-35) C++ coding standard: http://www2.research.att.com/~bs/JSF-AV-rules.pdf

Been posted to HN before: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3967316

From a cursory read, it mostly boils down to ``don't do anything funky or too smart'', with the `too smart' bar is held somewhat low. Still, it asks programmers to use some decent stuff like the RAII idiom, for example (AV Rule 79).

kemiller2• 14 years ago

In The Terminator, Skynet is supposed to have achieved sentience and turned against its masters. But if you look at something like this from the point of view of someone in a part of the world where the political structure is not aligned with US hegemony, the difference between an advanced AI which has "turned" and a robotic army that is ultimately still controlled by humans is probably academic. I suppose that in the latter scenario there is still in theory some humanity to appeal to, but I somehow doubt that's what's running through your head when you're being chased by a faceless killing machine.

Then again, a closed-cockpit jet fighter isn't exactly a cuddly sight regardless.

ConstantineXVI• 14 years ago

The difference between an AI-flown jet, Predator drone, ICBM, or even human-flown jet is mainly academic if they're headed in your direction and you lack the ability to defend against them.

molmalo3• 14 years ago

Humanity?

http://www.iraqwarlogs.com/2010/10/23/us-commits-%E2%80%9Cwa...

No, no humanity.

http://www.channel4.com/news/iraqs-secret-war-logs-surrender...

Watch the second video. US Military considers that it is not possible to surrender to aircrafts. So, if someone tries to surrender, they are still valid targets, and then eliminated.

So, basically, it's the same as fighting with a totally autonomous machine. There's no humanity in that kind of fight.

kemiller2• 14 years ago

Well, that's the point, right? People are worried about hostile AI, and how scary it would be to be confronted by an enemy possessing overwhelming resources and no emotional common ground. But much of the world already has that experience.

zokier• 14 years ago

Fighter? Hardly:

>The mission of the Navy Unmanned Combat Air System (UCAS) Aircraft Carrier Demonstration (UCAS-D) is to mature technologies for a carrier suitable, low observable relevant, unmanned air system in support of a potential follow-on acquisition milestone for an unmanned air system capable of providing persistent, penetrating surveillance, and penetrating strike capability in high threat areas.

Primarily a recon craft with strike capability.

US Navy X-47B Robot Fighter Jet Completes First Phase Of Testing

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