Fable at 20: a uniquely British video game with a complex legacy

https://www.theguardian.com/games/2024/sep/18/fable-at-20-a-uniquely-british-video-game-with-a-complex-legacy

by n1b0m • 2 years ago

227 115 2 years ago

Aeolun2• 2 years ago

Huh, what this whole article actually led me to find is that the winner of Curiosity never actually got any price. The price they were supposed to get was never even developed. I guess that’s some way to get out of your contractual agreements. Wonder how that would have gone for them if the winner wasn’t a clueless 18 year old.

amatecha3• 2 years ago

(for context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity%3A_What's_Inside_the... )

rahkiin2• 2 years ago

Ugh the wiki says ‘1% of all revenue of Godus’ and then Peter remarks it ‘never made a profit’. Bait and switch there

Meganet2• 2 years ago

Yeah i lost all faith when he did this shit. But he made it even lower with his NFT game

greazy2• 2 years ago

Peter Molyneux is the king of bullshit. He's back again with another God game.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/08/peter-molyneux-is-bac...

He's a dreamer who won't shut up. Nearly everything that comes out of his mouth is bullshit hype.

slater• 2 years ago

So would you say you're a fan of Peter?

keyringlight• 2 years ago

I think Peter put into the right environment and restraints could still be a great thing. I really dislike the cancelling that's in a lot of gaming discussions for any personality that doesn't tell people what they want to hear, or fucks up so they can be cast as a villain (OTOH, I think many gamers just like drama, they love a redemption story too).

To my mind games should encourage the interesting, fantastical and weird "What if you could..." elements, and that's what Molyneux/Bullfrog/Lionhead have introduced repeatedly over the years. Developers like him should be prolific and encouraged as I'd really hate to see the breadth of gaming reduced and more focus on safe derivatives of a few genres. I'd love to hear him shoot the breeze on games and what others have produced, but he could only ever do it under a false name as his own carries too much baggage.

oldstrangers2• 2 years ago

Looks kinda fun. Basically Dungeon Keeper / Populous with better graphics.

trustno2• 2 years ago

At least this time there is no kickstarter/presale/NFT

MisterBiggs• 2 years ago

I'm a huge fan of the games he has been a part of so I was familiar enough with his antics to know that Curiosity would end up being nothing, but he really outdid himself here, Peak Peter Molyneux behavior.

jamesgeck02• 2 years ago

One of my favorite things in game journalism is still Rock Paper Shotgun kicking off an interview with Peter Molyneux by asking him if he's a pathological liar.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/peter-molyneux-interview-go...

Aeolun2• 2 years ago

It’s just hard to read. Clearly he can make amazing games given constraints, but… It feels like there’s always an excuse for not doing as promised, and only trying to justify things in hindsight.

I guess all problems could be solved by just having him work on the game, and leaving PR to literally anyone else. Hell, the janitor would be a safer bet.

underlipton2• 2 years ago

IIRC, II was considered superior, where a lot of the ideas were supposed to have matured and gelled to create a compelling experience. I didn't own a 360, so I never got to see for myself, but I did get to watch a few hours of gameplay while hanging out with my boyfriend at the time.

A notable moment: he'd unlocked a Demon Door and was enthusiastically laying out how the game's real estate system worked, and his plans for the idyllic winter lodge he'd just found, when he walked his character inside and... well, I won't spoil the surprise. Suffice it to say, someone on the design team had a very good handle on what they were doing. It's always stuck out to me as an excellent example of how deeply game designers understand their systems, how those systems influence gamer behavior and expectations, and how to play on those expectations for emotional impact.

hibikir• 2 years ago

In that era of gaming, just waiting a few years meant sequels were better just due to extra computing power, so yes, Fable II was better in most ways (although I'd argue the main story was worse). It was still trying to define many gameplay mechanics that are just standard fare for western made action RPGs. One can play Fable and Morrowind, then look at Skyrim, and see how it owes about as much to Fable as to Morrowind.

It's harder now, because so much of the genre seems to have frozen. The graphics are many times more realistic, and animation blending has come a long way. But ultimately making changes is now so much more expensive, that significant novelty is difficult to find in games that also push what could be done, the way it was back when the first two Fable games could try to push ahead in all direction at once

Loughla4• 2 years ago

I'm disappointed in rpg's now. Once oblivion came out, they all seemed to stagnate and just be clones of that model.

The problem is the market for a deep, deep rpg with skills based on time spent using them is probably pretty small. Because it's people like me who don't actually have the time needed to play them due to life nonsense.

I desperately want the mechanics of Morrowind, but with modern graphics. The original is almost unplayable because of how crappy the graphics are.

thom2• 2 years ago

I think Baldur's Gate is as much to blame for this - that was really the origin of these high-touch, narrative-driven, asset-heavy games, especially with voice acting. It completely demolished the keyword based interactions of the Ultima and Wizardry games, almost completely removed wilderness exploration as an option in RPGs, and turned them into very curated experiences. As much fun as Morrowind was, it was still a disappointment to me coming after the vast sandboxes of Arena and Daggerfall.

gwern• 2 years ago

(You should probably spoil the surprise, because few of the readers of your comment are going to track down & buy a 16-year-old RPG, and spend the necessary 10 or 40 hours to reach that point and learn what the surprise is and how it illustrates anything of interest about the Fable games.)

narism• 2 years ago

This goes into what happens: https://fable.fandom.com/wiki/Winter_Lodge

bigstrat2003• 2 years ago

I liked Fable 2 well enough, but I think that the first game was far superior. The story is pretty interesting in the first game (if basic), whereas in 2 I felt it was kind of a mess.

mmastrac• 2 years ago

I vaguely recall playing Fable on the Xbox and being satisfied, though not blown away by it. It was certainly one of the most fleshed-out house-buying/marriage-allowing games I recall playing (not the first, though) and probably paved the way for more complete systems.

I love Peter Molyneux and he's built amazing things, but he is certainly a hype factory.

Loughla4• 2 years ago

I absolutely loved that game on Xbox. It's the only reason I own an original Xbox.

It came out when I was just branching out into the world without my family around, and seeing a game where my choices changed my appearance was kind blowing to me.

I still love this game, though the replayability was definitely overhyped. It's pretty much the same every time.

amatecha3• 2 years ago

Yeah, I got the Xbox for Halo 2, but Fable was an absolute top highlight as well. Those two games and Morrowind made up the vast vast majority of my hours on that console. Great times :)

QuiDortDine• 2 years ago

As an early teen I didn't understand enough to be impressed, but I was certainly fascinated for a good few weeks.

AmericanChopper2• 2 years ago

I remember the house buying as being very basic. You could buy a house, fill it with items, sell the house, steal all the items from it, and buy it back for less, as many times as you like. I also remember being rather frustrated I couldn’t pull the sword out of the stone by becoming max good, to I gave up and became max evil, much to the disappointment of my character’s wife.

BigParm• 2 years ago

That was based on strength, nothing to do with good/evil lol.

BeFlatXIII• 2 years ago

I maxed out the fireball spell, then targeted it at the stone walls of a building to let the splash damage murder the residents without alerting the guards or accumulating evil points. Great way to open new properties on the rental market.

debo_• 2 years ago

Related: One of the main designers of Fable recently released a free, highly imaginative Ultima-4-inspired game called Moonring. Check it out!

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2373630/Moonring/

amatecha3• 2 years ago

nice, I saw this game somewhere recently but didn't realize it was free. "Verified" on Deck , too! thanks for recommending, will give it a shot!

porkbrain• 2 years ago

Looks fantastic indeed. I tried running it on Steam deck but I wouldn't call it supported. The default layout configuration is not working, only touchscreen.

thom2• 2 years ago

And if you like this sort of tasteful take on retro RPGs, you might enjoy SKALD:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1069160/SKALD_Against_the...

MikeTheGreat• 2 years ago

You had me a "Ultima-4 inspired game" :)

It's free, it plays like Ultima 4 but modern (nice colors, animations, more than 26 possible actions :) ). I think I'm in love.

Thank you for posting this!

darknavi• 2 years ago

Molyneux is obviously infamous for over promises and under delivering, but Fable (Fable, Fable The Lost Chapters, etc.) had such a special place in my heart.

An amazing game with raunchy wit, moving story, and great fantasy world building. The music still rattles through my brain and I still occasionally say, "Do you chase chickens, Chicken Chaser?".

I really enjoyed the games, but especially Fable and Fable TLC (which was an extended chapter at the end which changes the ending and takes you to a talked about continent that the base game did not).

sakjur• 2 years ago

Lionhead made amazing games, and it’s annoying that Molyneux had to hype them until they were certain disappointments.

I liked Fable, and while Black and White committed the sin of being two RTS games without multiplayer it remained really interesting and just a fun experience. But the game that really had me was The Movies. Its story mode was fun, but the movie maker within the game was really something different for a young teenager’s imagination. That is a game I’d really want to see rebuilt with modern tooling and hardware.

tetris112• 2 years ago

I loved The Movies, putting together weird campy films that I was proud of and received poor reviews from the in-game critics, heh.

I can still hear the excellent soundtrack in my head.

Drakim• 2 years ago

Black & White 1 does have multiplayer, only the sequel lacked it.

orthoxerox• 2 years ago

"Your health is low. Do you have any potions? Or food?"

youngtaff• 2 years ago

The Guardian story misses out Louise Murray’s role in rescuing Fable

https://www.eurogamer.net/lionhead-the-inside-story

dancemethis• 2 years ago

... It always felt more French to me.

chuckadams• 2 years ago

I still remember chowing down on crunchy chicks to qualify for the evil quest lines >:)

wheybags• 2 years ago

It's the bones that make them crunchy

goles• 2 years ago

Chicken chaser, do you chase chickens?

joe91• 2 years ago

Sudeki was better. Long live SOL :)

xarope• 2 years ago

I assume by python-esque they meant monty python-esque (comedy-esque, versus python the programming language-esque), so remember to context switch, especially if you went to read the article from HN!

bcraven• 2 years ago

Indeed, paragraph 4:

It was a bit like if Monty Python were to reimagine the world of Robin Hood.

dudinax• 2 years ago

Which they kinda did in time bandits

icepat• 2 years ago

Yes, the title there really confused me for a moment.

blackeyeblitzar2• 2 years ago

Fable was a game that was hyped up far beyond what it delivered or even what was possible at the time. It was entertaining but sort of just an above average game. Not an amazing game, not a legendary game. For some reason there was a lot of games journalism at the time that propped up the image of people like Peter Molyneux, maybe because of Black and White. In the end gamers didn’t get what they expected.

giancarlostoro• 2 years ago

One of my favorite franchises, and although I would love to see a new Fable game come out, I fear I'd wind up with a Saints game. Completely disconnected from the original game. Ridiculous.

Just looked up Saints Row reboot again, it flopped so hard that they shutdown the studio behind it, making the game literal abandon-ware. Yikes.

ianbutler• 2 years ago

There is a new Fable coming out in 2025.

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/fable

dazzawazza• 2 years ago

Which is exactly why this fluff article has appeared in the Guardian.

Meganet2• 2 years ago

I bought an xbox only for fable 3. But that one disillusioned me complelty :|

I really hope they take the feeling of Fable (that what made me like it in the first place) and roll with it.

And if they make it great, It was Peter Molyneux fault...

WorldMaker• 2 years ago

Fable 3 killed Lionhead.

The reboot has already passed the point of teaser trailers. The new studio is Playground Games best known for the Forza Horizon games. (The alternating "silly" open world titles between Forza Motorsport "serious" racing titles.) Given the success of Forza Horizon and their cadence at regularly delivering it, this Fable reboot probably won't kill the studio, but might push them back into the "only do Horizon games, please" box.

The Saints Row reboot had some writing on the wall that it might be the last one from the developer anyway, and it was reflected in the design. The Chicago-based Volition (for several decades under several publishers, and even through a messy divorce/remerger) was forced to move to Austin, TX to be closer physically to other teams under the same publisher (notably Gearbox). The reboot attempted to be a love letter to their new forced home, but a lot of "their creative heart wasn't exactly in it" was visible on too many levels, and it was easy enough to guess that when a publisher forces a move like that they may be looking for easy layoffs and eventual team mergers.

dash2• 2 years ago

Boo to associating Britain with heroic failure. We do this too much to ourselves! Actually, British game development industry is a notable success and has turned Leamington Spa from a byword for chintziness to an exciting place to work.

dualogy• 2 years ago

True enough, way beyond my old-school favs of Goldeneye 007, Perfect Dark, and GTA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_game_companies_...

madaxe_again• 2 years ago

I mean, GTA is one of the biggest game franchises on the planet, which is hard to see as anything other than a success. Gouranga!

ksec• 2 years ago

Boo to associating Britain with heroic failure

Not sure which part of it is a failure. Even the articles said > it was successful enough that Lionhead was bought by Microsoft in 2006, and its two sequels also sold well.

tetris112• 2 years ago

Bullfrog, Rockstar North, Climax, 4J, Rocksteady

delta_p_delta_x• 2 years ago

Some more to add—

- Revolution Software (Broken Sword series)

- Fireproof Games (The Room series)

- Jagex (RuneScape)

- Core Design (Tomb Raider)

- Dovetail Games (Rail and Train Simulator*)

wishfish• 2 years ago

Hello Games - No Man's Sky

And one that probably few here have heard of: Lapioware - Diesel Railcar Simulator

Mentioning that one because it's a one man show. Made by a man who felt nostalgic for the diesel railcars & landscapes of 1960s Britain. So he ended up making one of the most realistic train sims.

_bent• 2 years ago

Frontier, Cloud Imperium Games, Free Radical / Crytek UK / Dambuster, Ninja Theory, Playground Games

sethammons• 2 years ago

I enjoyed Fable so much that, yes, I will buy what ever game platform they release the 4th installment on just for that game

moomin• 2 years ago

Since we’ve brought up the question as to whether Molyneux is overly enthusiastic or just dishonest, I invite you to rewatch this 2009 demo and make up your own mind: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CPIbGnBQcJY&pp=ygUMUHJvamVjdCB...

nkrisc• 2 years ago

Wow, I can’t believe I missed this at the time. I knew he had a tendency to exaggerate but this makes me think he’s either delusional or a pathological liar.

bagels3• 2 years ago

Yes, this clinched it. He lied about features in all of the previous games (some of which were good, and I enjoyed), but the whole demo looks fake.

Jiocus• 2 years ago

In the Swedish game magazine Super Play (now defunct) they covered Fable development and the release, but IIRC they advised the reader to take Molyneux's claims with a grain of salt. The final review still made it to 9, or 10 out of 10 I think, but I'd have to check the issue to confirm.

I want to thank my father for giving in and purchasing Fable for me when it hit the shelves. Fable II was my favourite, a fantastic game.

pmarreck2• 2 years ago

My favorite aspect of Fable and one that few other games have touched for some reason is the fact that many quests asked you to choose between a moral solution and a moneymaking solution, which meant basically that only wealthy people could afford to be good. At the same time it let you invest in businesses and collect profits while you played the rest of the game, so that you could make some passive income basically. Rarely have I seen such a positive-capitalist-forward take on a game world, but the real lesson was the "need to be wealthy enough to be good" aspect

Frummy• 2 years ago

And also if I recall correctly you could raise the rent past all reasonable limits and collect evil points and degrade the health of the cities. But that was probably Fable 3 and/or 2. In 3, you also got to play as king in the court, after usurping the evil brother, and had to make evil decisions if you were poor enough, to prepare for that darkness thing in the desert. Contrasting with the authoritarian rule of the brother who was sort of just preparing for the bigger threat no one knew about.

That’s a pretty funny progression, from quests and arbitrage between traders in Fable 1, to a bigger focus on being a landlord than earlier in fable 2, then just straight up being a king in fable 3. Industralism progressing in the background of the three as well to full on childworker factories in fable 3 with Reaver if i recall correctly being the tycoon.

pmarreck2• 2 years ago

I only completed fable 1, not having a console, I believe (and then later, some nonsense about microsoft DRM no longer working? or something? or some microsoft service no longer existing? I forget), prevented me from experiencing/enjoying the other 2, but that certainly sounds interesting!

hombre_fatal• 2 years ago

I'm amazed when I see positive coverage of / nostalgia for Fable 1 for Xbox.

I was 15 at the time at the peak of Xbox vs Playstation vs Gamecube message board arguments on forums like NeoGAF.

And Molyneux's bullshit wasn't making it easy for us online Xbox crusaders. He made crazy claims like how it was an open world game with an advanced social system where you build relationships with people and can plant a seed and watch the tree grow if you were to wait next to it for many ingame hours. The lead up and hype made it part of gaming forum discourse for years!

Finally, Fable comes out and it's this short, easy, linear, arcadey, simplistic game. The super complicated reputation system was just a basic "you got +10 good/bad points" alignment system. "People remember your actions" just meant `if player.didThingX then cheer()`.

After all that, it was a weekend rental at best. I think I beat it in 8 hours. It was so disappointing.

After having not thought of Fable in 20 years, it's kinda funny to see it covered without the "gravity" of the waves it made in the Great Online Message Board Console Faction Wars. Not that the context was worth preserving nor that nobody should be allowed to enjoy it. It's funny because it was such a big deal to many of us forum crusaders.

But I guess that's part of getting old.

tracerbulletx• 2 years ago

Eh, the fact it didn't live up to the promises was certaintly a massive part of the narrative, but I have a different memory. I remember most people finding it to be a masterpiece immediately. It got a 9.3 from IGN back when that still meant something after all. A lot of people don't care about length if what you get is as densely charming, well written, and well art designed as Fable.

angry_moose• 2 years ago

Yeah, that's how I remember it.

The hype was basically "Morrowind but better in every single way" - better combat, deeper lore, complex character interactions, and more advanced graphics.

I got it day 1, and within about 2 days I gave up on it and sold it back. It was so much less than advertised I was immensely disappointed. I'm sure there was something good there if you went in with no expectations, but its easily the biggest gaming letdown I've experienced.

lloydatkinson• 2 years ago

I am excited and optimistic for the new game, but very aware of what an absolute train wreck the modern game industry (read: the execs and shareholders) is. I really, really, really want the new one to be good.

VoodooJuJu• 2 years ago

I'm so glad I didn't hang around in video game forums & news sites and got to experience Fable in its pristine form.

It's a beautiful game with a great environmental quality to it, much like classic World of Warcraft and Skyrim. Simply roaming around, taking in the visuals, the music, and the ambience was an enjoyable experience in itself, without even doing the quests or progressing the story.

Whenever I read about it now, it's just a bunch of people complaining about how overhyped it was and how their own expectations prevented them from enjoying the game. Sad!

climb_stealth• 2 years ago

This, so very much. Nowadays I go to great lengths to avoid reading any reviews or opinions on media I want to consume. Regardless of whether it is a book, movie, tv show or game.

I ask my partner to order books for me or to check what other entries are in a series because it is basically impossible to look up something like this without being jumped with summaries, ratings, opinions and similar that rob one of an unbiased experience.

I'll always remember the 2017 "King Arthur: Legend of the Sword" movie. I watched it at the movies with zero expectations and thoroughly enjoyed it and thought it was great. Much later I read some article or something on it and apparently people agreed it was terrible. I don't think I would have enjoyed it nearly as much if I had heard about it beforehand.

oldstrangers2• 2 years ago

I have such fond memories of Dungeon Keeper, Dungeon Keeper 2, Fable, Black & White, Populous.

I think the biggest take away from Molyneux's work is regardless of how seriously he talked the games up, the games themselves never once took themselves too seriously. There was a level of playful whimsy that just didn't exist back then (and probably still doesn't today). You could tell he wanted to say more and do more, but was always limited by the technology available at the time. It felt like he was searching for something in the games he developed, and I was always happy to go searching with him.

stonethrowaway• 2 years ago

I’ve never understood the people who took him at face value but I’ve also never understood people who didn’t like the guy.

He made some of the most interesting and original and fun games out there. What, he can’t puff up his chest once in awhile? If anything I want more games from him.

bagels3• 2 years ago

I don't like people that lie to me.

caseysoftware• 2 years ago

Populous! That's a name I haven't heard for a long time. It was so much fun building out the land, smiting people, and then saving the day after earthquakes, etc. Good times.

I have yet to see a modern version that was half as interesting.

spywaregorilla• 2 years ago

I remember playing one of these a decade or so after it came out. Found out there were hookers and a prompt on whether or not to have safe sex. Despite my attempts, I was unable to receive any penalties for ignoring the prompt.

Fable at 20: a uniquely British video game with a complex legacy

Related Stories