Some notes on influenceering

https://lcamtuf.substack.com/p/some-notes-on-influenceering

by tptacek • 2 years ago

263 99 2 years ago

lcamtuf.substack.com

early on, it plays tricks with your mind — what if I’m really as clueless as they say?
What stings far more is when you get no reaction whatsoever

Wow, even someone like lcamtuf can feel like this sometimes. This guy is the author of super-awesome stuff like "The Tangled Web" book, the "Guerrilla guide to CNC" and the "american fuzzy lop" software. Definitely, his work is the kind of content that makes the internet 1000 times better!

ipython• 2 years ago

I still remember being in awe of his paper on strange attractors - plotting the random number generators from various oses and languages in 3D space to discern patterns. That blew my mind at the time.

Edit: ah here it is. It was initial tcp sequence number generators: https://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/oldtcp/tcpseq.html

ImaCake2• 2 years ago

That's an amazing piece of work. Even in a quick skim I picked up a lot of new ideas which speaks to how well the author can explain tricky concepts!

pclmulqdq2• 2 years ago

Having done some blogging that I need to get back to, I have to agree with you that follower counts are mostly worthless. Platforms like Twitter and YouTube end up with hugely inflated numbers compared to your actual audience.

A fantastic following is 1000 people who really care. A million random YouTube subscribers might have that.

skilled• 2 years ago

The problem is that communities got replaced by algorithms who think on your behalf.

The algorithm is by definition random, and yet for countless years now it is how most social media sites, including popular developer communities, operate.

In the era of the feed and timeline, nobody bothers to check “Following” when you have “Recommended” enabled by default. The former requires effort, while the latter gives a false sense of reality.

Every refresh it is something new and exciting, every time. A never ending loop of joy and happiness. Who knows… one day the algorithm could even show you in front of the entire world!

boredemployee• 2 years ago

> In the era of the feed and timeline, nobody bothers to check “Following” when you have “Recommended” enabled by default.

That's something I really hate and I feel pretty dumb that I found just some weeks ago that I can change X's feed to show me the posts people who I follow. I wonder if that's true for instagram as well because I can't stand to see random posts anymore. To be honest, I'm getting tired of it.

i.e: I'm really enjoying going to a record shop to listen to music instead of spotify crap. the serendipity is real

soulofmischief• 2 years ago

As a counterpoint, I feel like my experience with platforms such as bandcamp, YouTube, private trackers, etc. replicate much of the serendipity of a record shop, while vastly increasing discoverability.

I love going into a record shop as much as the next guy, but I do find that I discover more new things which actually stick via the internet. I also find that I am able to rely more on network-based algorithms for discoverability if the community is well-aligned. Even better if I can navigate myself when the underlying data is exposed via similarity maps, tags and other hypertext.

Recommendation algorithms we see on corporate social platforms (Spotify included) generally suck because the underlying data is not exposed to the user. That would be bad for ad revenue. These platforms enjoy the profound level of mind control which they employ towards their users, and are loathe to surrender it.

immibis4• 2 years ago

If a chronological feed of everyone you follow is what you want, you'll love the Fediverse because it has so little algorithm that it's actually a flaw.

Although, if you follow lots of people, a chronological feed is still just "random posts", because they are the ones that happened to get posted just before you looked at the feed. A customized feed would be better - some way to up-weight insightful posts and down-weight memes.

righthand• 2 years ago

Isn’t it just automated channel flipping, but instead of isolated display space per channel, instead the channels are conglomerated together into an endless feed? A never ending loop isn’t intended to bring joy and happiness and that’s why it fails. It is however intended to remove control from the controller.

dinkleberg• 2 years ago

The best thing I've learned about "influenceering" is to stop thinking you're hot shit and focus on being useful (or entertaining if that is what you're about).

Years ago I was pumping content out all the time and I was just creating the content for the sake of creating it. Consequently, the content was mostly pointless and garbage.

If you want to treat your social media as a public journal that is cool, but not likely to make you an influencer. If your goal is to grow a following, you've gotta be empathetic towards your audience and create what they want to see.

If you're trying to entertain, make sure you're actually entertaining. Or if like me you're educating, make sure you're actually educating.

It seems completely obvious, yet when you're doing it, its easy to lose sight of the mission.

Once I "removed myself" from the equation and just focused on what is actually useful to my intended audience things improved tremendously.

zackproser3• 2 years ago

This is helpful - thank you for sharing. I've been down a mental rabbit hole lately and reached similar conclusions.

zackproser3• 2 years ago

And, for what it's worth, I also share because I love building things and learning. I taught myself how to code using free resources online, so it felt perfectly natural to publish and open-source everything I figured out.

I also wouldn't mind eventually making some money off delivering reliable value to others.

bawolff2• 2 years ago

If you want to treat your social media as a public journal that is cool, but not likely to make you an influencer

I think the key trick is you need to be interesting. A public journal can be for some people but probably not most.

I'm interested in a public journal of someone in the top of their field, thinking deep thoughts and explaining how they see the world.

I'm not interested in a public journal that amounts to: today i bought groceries and binged netflix.

immibis4• 2 years ago

Unfortunately we live in a society which doesn't reward that. At all. If you can be content with being the most usefully informative guy on the planet and receiving less recognition for it than the guy who makes funny faces on TikTok all day... good for you. Most people cannot.

One thing that might help with this is actual face-to-face connections. Join a hackerspace or something. A smaller number of people may interact with you than on your blog, but they're a substantially more complex interactions, not just a view counter going up.

luu• 2 years ago

Some of my most popular posts are throwaway quips and memes that went viral on social media. One of my life’s crowning achievements is this: [witty, throwaway, quip tweet].
In contrast, some of the work I put weeks or months into essentially lost the SEO game and gets nearly zero traffic ... Even though I don’t write for money, there is an immense pressure to produce clickbait — even if simply to add “hey, since you’re here, check out this serious thing”.

This will be different for different people, but I've noticed a moderately strong negative correlation between how much effort I put into something and how much engagement it gets (this seems likely to be different for people who apply their effort to generating engagement). The highest engagement content content of mine tends to be thoughtless social media comments I make without thinking. Something like https://danluu.com/ftc-google-antitrust/, which summarizes 300+ pages of FTC memos and is lucky to get 10% of the traffic of a throwaway comment and is more likely to get < 0.1% of the traffic of a high-engagement throwaway comment. Of course there's a direct effect, in that a thoughtless joke has appeal to a larger number of people than a deep dive into anything, but algorithmic feeds really magnify this effect because they'll cause the thoughtless joke to be shown to orders of magnitude more people so something with a 10x difference in appeal will end up with, say, a 1000x difference in traffic on average and even more in the tail.

I don't think this is unique to tech content either. For example, I see this with YouTube channels as well — in every genre or niche that I follow, the most informative content doesn't has fairly low reach and the highest engagement content leans heavily on entertainment value and isn't very informative.

Swizec• 2 years ago

the most informative content doesn't has fairly low reach and the highest engagement content leans heavily on entertainment value

Same observation here. I think it's because these channels are optimized for people looking to be entertained, not looking to be informed. There's an impedance mismatch between high value content and what people want while doomscrolling on the couch at 8pm or while on a coffee break at work.

BolexNOLA• 2 years ago

My gut says - and this is very much gut - that throwaway content/posts probably tend to be comedic, and sometimes we just strike comedy gold. One good, funny sentence can ripple very quickly.

mycologos• 2 years ago

Doesn't this kind of make sense? Stuff with high personal resonance, by virtue of being personal, has a specific audience. That sounds trite, but I at least tend to underrate how much the stuff I really like is just a weirdly shaped key fitting into a weirdly shaped lock somewhere in my brain.

ZephyrBlu4• 2 years ago

My experience on the internet suggests that high-signal information usually has very low memetic fitness. All the good sources of information I've found have been buried away and I've come across them serendipitously.

Not particularly surprising though, entertainment is the lowest common denominator so it's much easier for that kind of stuff to spread. High-signal information is the complete opposite: very few people can actually tell if it's valuable, and it's not particularly shareable.

To be fair, most people aren't really looking for super high-signal info anyway. Closer to the minimal amount of information I need, presented in an easily digestible way, or looking for infotainment around something they're interested in!

M5x7wI3CmbEem10• 2 years ago

any high-signal sources in particular?

glial2• 2 years ago

Closer to the minimal amount of information I need

It makes me wonder what this 'need' is that can be filled by memetic drivel.

ghaff3• 2 years ago

Somewhat related is that the type of format that some people like to glibly dismiss as clickbait--how to..., 5 takeaways for $EVENT, etc. Whether they deliver or not there's at least a promise of practical advice or easily digestible information that doesn't involve working through 2,000 or 3,000 words to figure out what the key points are. I may appreciate a good New Yorker article but sometimes I just want some highlights.

gspencley• 2 years ago

To be fair, most people aren't really looking for super high-signal info anyway.

This is the charitable interpretation. It's not that people are necessarily dumb or that "the algorithm" is trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. It's that the vast majority of the time, people are "engaging" with the Internet in order to seek out entertainment in the first place.

The world wide web began its life as the promise of unlimited information at our fingertips. But most people who need to engage in "serious" academic research on a topic are going directly to specialized sources for that information that they are already familiar with and trust. Even on the Internet, websites like StackOverflow come to mind when it comes to software development. But more often than not I'm going back to text books, be it for algorithms or design patterns or what have you.

When I'm taking time to engage with the web, even here right now on Hacker News, it's because I'm taking a break. I'm not engaged in any specific productive endeavour at the moment. I'm looking to fill my time and unwind until I'm back to work and chores.

I used to think about this when I considered why there is so much hate and outrage on social media. My theory is that people are on social media because they're on a break, or they just got home, or they just got their kids to sleep and all they want to do is look at cute cat gifs or watch TikTok videos or whatever. Then the news feed shoves a bunch of stuff in their face that they disagree with or find contrarian, because they're most likely to engage with it, and the fact that they're tired and not in the mood to have a well reasoned conversation goes a long way towards triggering that outburst.

It's a cliche truism to say that the algorithms are giving people want they want. I think what people want most of the time is entertainment and "easy reading/watching." And so there is far more of that than anything else.

brandall10• 2 years ago

I see this even on enthusiast discussion forums and subreddits where high value content is encouraged.

Very often someone will post some thoughtful, high value post in a thread that gets at least a handful of positive reactions. But if someone quotes it with some silly quip that's 5 words or less, it invariably gets 3-4x the response.

Yeah, sometimes it's a tdlr; situation, but it seems common enough even with just a few sentences.

nonameiguess• 2 years ago

Eric Helms, an exercise physiology researcher out of New Zealand who runs a reasonably well-known but certainly not viral Internet coaching practice and podcast, both for weighlifting, made a comment to this effect on a recent episode. If he fixates on engagement metrics, he can see the lowest effort cheap shit is what gets the clicks and the eyeballs. Books he has published push nowhere near that volume, and he can only coach a few people at a time.

But what kind of engagement are you looking for? One of his coaching clients is a two-time world champion. Think about some of history's great teachers. Jaime Escalante directly ever engaged with what? A few hundred, maybe a thousand math students in his entire 40 year career? Sure, but he deeply impacted these people, and in some cases totally changed their lives for the better. Do you want to briefly amuse a billion people for a few seconds each or produce world champions and paths from the ghetto to the middle class?

paulpauper2• 2 years ago

This is why the stock market (specifically the Nasdaq) and real estate, tech jobs are so great for building wealth . none of this unpredictability of having to rely on user/reader engagement or guessing the whims of reader or publisher tastes. For investing, being successful is as easy as parking your money and watching it grow. The creator/engagement economy has vastly more losers relative to winners, which makes it impractical.

ghaff3• 2 years ago

It's not just unpredictability. It's that outside of doing explicitly commercial work (and often even then), the average and certainly the median income for a great deal of creative work is really low.

cjmb• 2 years ago

Yeap, just +1'ing this too.

One other axis of engagement is "topical relevance" -- and I think that does have some overlap with the axis of "effort put in". Meaning: putting a TON of effort into a long-form piece tends to relate to some original thought or framing you have. But a lot of people are explicitly looking for something, even if that something is an entertaining throwaway meme comment.

If you go too heavily down the "flesh out topic of deep personal interest", you can end up too far away from the "topic everyone wants to talk about on the internet today" stuff.

Sadly (or not!), I take great enjoyment fleshing out topics of deep personal interest, even when they have limited relevance to the topic du jour. If it were different, perhaps we'd be journalists or more mainstream authors.

geerlingguy• 2 years ago

+1 - I've spent months on some videos—research, testing, sometimes travelling to different places to get better data and video to use. Then I spend a few hours on others. Some of the 'big' ones do well, sure, but it's nowhere near proportional to the amount of time worked.

I still do those projects because personally I don't feel like I'm doing as much good when I whip up a video in less than a day from concept to posting. I try to at least have something interesting/educational in each video, even if it's just a Gist or a new GitHub project someone can fork.

That extra work doesn't result in any extra reward/revenue, but at least it keeps me motivated.

cyrillite• 2 years ago

It’s what I call the comedians valley. Naturally funny people are off the cuff and effortless. If they try stand up it takes a long time to marry up elite performance professionalism with natural talent. For a long time there’s an uncanny awkwardness to it. The same thing is goes for other forms of memetic influence

bawolff2• 2 years ago

I wonder though if there is a long term benefit.

E.g. people might pay attention to you because of your reputation. Your reputation might be based on high effort posts (over the long term) even if they get less attention. The lower effort posts might get more direct attention but only because of your reputation which is indirectly caused by the high effort posts which much fewer people read.

Just a theory, i wonder if people who are actually internet famous would agree or not (since i am not).

jacobolus• 2 years ago

There is definitely a long-term societal benefit to doing both kinds of work. Often work seen by only a few people (which might gather only a handful of citations, or none at all) inspires a later generation's breakthroughs at the frontier of human understanding. (For example yesterday there was a post about Hermann Grassmann and his pioneering work in linear algebra which got almost no positive feedback at the time but 150 years later is considered foundational for whole fields of study.) On the other hand making very popular material that helps a large number of people to slightly better understand old well-known ideas can still have huge benefit.

gavinhoward3• 2 years ago

I am only a little Internet famous, but this matches my experience. But I also self-host and stay away from poisonous platforms.

bfuller• 2 years ago

I am more internet infamous, but my one viral success has impacted my life in more ways than I could explain. But that one success took 5 years of my life.

mike_mg• 2 years ago

Predicting what people want to consume is hard, especially if # of impressions is your success measure. More broadly, I have been endlessly surprised by how users use my products and what in particular they liked. You do tend to get better at feeling this out from seeing people interacting with your product, but you stand to be bewildered, forever. If only you saw in what circumstances people read your posts!

At the same time, some might say it's about the area under the curve. If 10 folks get their mind blown by in-depth treatment of some curious topic, it's roughly same amount of utils as 1e5 impressions on some silly quip if you ask me.

I, for one, am perpetually grateful to lcamtuf. I have been looking up to him for like 15 years, and he has shaped me profoundly by showing what level of focus, productivity and insight is possible. You wouldn't think that someone's life trajectory can get changed by super detailed CNC lore write up, but here we are, years later (: Thanks!!

Also, if you're reading this lcamtuf, I would like to put one vote in favour of re-instating the American essays. Pls don't pull a Kafka on us! I did read your "choosing how to be remembered" post, but still, the fact that you took the American essays down feeds right into the topic of this current post. I found them positively entertaining and insightful.

xmprt• 2 years ago

I think this is more of a quantity vs quality thing. You make 100 low effort posts in the time of 1 high effort post. Even if there's a 1% chance of the low effort posts getting traction compared to the 10-20% chance of a high quality post getting traction, on a net basis, the low quality posts will end up being more popular.

jc6• 2 years ago

Michael Goldharber - People have limited attention to give anything, but unlimited capacity to receive attention.

The Attention Economy has been inflated exploiting the above inequality.

Bottom line is the social media is not designed to optimize allocation of limited Global Human Attention. It does a fine job squandering it. And people are begining to notice.

winternett• 2 years ago

Social media destroys the value of intellect because it limits the initial exposure of posts strategically in an unfairly tiered manner based on popularity. There is no real way to reach others unless you cheat or pay for ads now.

There is no real logical explanation to it's utility any more, as it serves as a casino for scams and ads, it's really no longer a forum for delivering important information and developing reputation in my opinion, because the popularity garnered on these platforms can easily be bought, forged, plagiarized, and sold on the black market, and often if you're highly controversial.

Even the people getting attention these days know their popularity only lasts for seconds at a time, there is nothing durable, and most social media clout is also not very memorable in the long term. Eventually {hopefully} real life interactions will become more important again after the sheen of tech manipulation on art and news wears off.

dorkwood• 2 years ago

The highest engagement content content of mine tends to be thoughtless social media comments I make without thinking.

I think this goes deeper than just comments. I've noticed a similar phenomenon with artists posting their work. Some of their most engaging posts tend to be pencil sketches, rather than their most polished pieces.

I think we tend to be more impressed with things that seem like they were achieved effortlessly, in general. If I was to guess, I'd say it might have something to do with our brains craving energy efficiency, and rewarding us for discovering someone who's more efficient than we are at some task.

keiferski2• 2 years ago

effortlessly

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprezzatura

keiferski2• 2 years ago

I think the dichotomy here is a false one. There is plenty of well-researched, in-depth content that does well on social media. The trick is that it’s also presented in an accessible way that provides value at every step, even the “superficial glance” one.

The mistake many of the “I spent hours researching this piece” creators is that they don’t package that content in an accessible way. Instead it’s a huge block of text without any coherent organization or entry point. Ergo it’s not surprising that it does worse.

xboxnolifes• 2 years ago

The mistake many of the “I spent hours researching this piece” creators is that they don’t package that content in an accessible way. Instead it’s a huge block of text without any coherent organization or entry point. Ergo it’s not surprising that it does worse.

It's like a lot of open source software. Tons of high quality effort put together to make great things, but very little time put toward packaging it to be appealing to the masses. Which is fine if you're okay with that, just don't be surprised when the average person isn't setting up a toolchain to compile your project from source or not editing config files to changes settings that aren't accessible in-program.

It's possible hour+ blog posts don't have much of a market, but I know super in-depth, informative, hour+ videos have some form of a market. At the very least Summoning Salt does something right in their videos to get millions of people to watch hour long historical video game videos.

ToucanLoucan• 2 years ago

The mistake many of the “I spent hours researching this piece” creators is that they don’t package that content in an accessible way. Instead it’s a huge block of text without any coherent organization or entry point. Ergo it’s not surprising that it does worse.

I honestly think this is what draws me to the documentary/podcast/video essay genre so much. I have a hard time concentrating on reading non-fiction but take the exact same material and deliver it via someone with decent charisma and the willingness to construct into a narrative story, and I'll watch a 4-hour deconstruction of a TV show I don't even care about.

hirenj• 2 years ago

I actually am beginning to worry about this from a scientific publishing point of view. Yeah I know there’s editorial board meetings where articles are discussed for publication, but given that the content is being pushed out increasingly through algorithmic channels (google scholar, social media, pubmed search, researchsquare), I have to wonder how much choices are made to optimise for the channels. What are the metrics editorial decisions are measured by? Does channel performance factor in?

brabel• 2 years ago

Scientists appear to optimise for citations because that's how they're "measured" against others. The quality and innovation of the research almost doesn't matter if it won't get citations, so you must publish something around what other people are working on, not on what you believe there's more chances of progress. To get citations, you also need to "play SEO" on those research search engines, of course (which is why every research paper uses as many buzzwords as they can fit in it), or make sure you have mutual agreements with "friends" to cite each other in every possible publication. Most heads of departments require everyone to cite their work on everything they publish. It's a wonder that with such a idiotic system (ironically coming from our brightest educational institutions) science still manages to make any progress at all.

OJFord• 2 years ago

On a positive other hand though, I think some of that (engagement with the low-effort joke or whatever) only comes because of respect earnt with the higher effort content.

For example, I read the Money Stuff newsletter and follow its author Matt Leavine on Twitter as a result; I'd be much more likely to 'engage' on Twitter if he posted some joke (for other readers: a cartoon of him leaning forward into an email client after a holiday, say) than I would to reply by email with a well thought-out and in-depth response with additional information/correction on some technical detail say, even if I worked in the industry to have that information. But I'm only following him on Twitter because of the newsletter.

joshstrange• 2 years ago

I agree and it can be very frustrating. You put a lot of effort into something and get almost no feedback/traffic (I also don’t write for money or make money from my blog, but it’s nice to see people read it) and then you can write a pithy comment or post that doesn’t dig into the nuance and it will blow up.

Some of my highest upvoted HN comments are 1-2 sentences but when I’ve responded or posted something well thought out or detailed it sometimes gets no votes/replies.

I try to “forget” this phenomenon because I don’t want to trend towards one-liners optimizing for engagement but every time a throwaway comment blows up I get somewhat frustrated that the well-reasoned reply/comment I wrote the previous day/hour/minute was ignored.

Thankfully I’ve had longer comments/posts gain traction so I know it does happen. I wrote a detailed blog post [0] on the Kroger (grocery store) app and posted it to HN but it got no upvotes (maybe 1-2) and didn’t get any comments. Thankfully, and this was news to me, the HN mods will occasionally take a post they liked that didn’t get attention and throw it on the front page to give it some more visibility (and then it can sink or swim on its own). They did that for this post and I got to participate in some enjoyable discussions on the topic.

That’s really what drives me to write (which I do rarely), the resulting discussion/feedback, well at least it’s a close second to just getting my ideas down on “paper” which forces me to think about them in new/interesting ways. More than once I’ve gone into writing a blog post thinking a certain way then I’ve changed or altered my thinking after putting my initial thoughts on the page.

[0] https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/11/krogers-digital-struggle/

et1337• 2 years ago

I remember that post, thanks for sharing!

Probably half of my posts that hit the front page got there via the second chance pool. It feels like dang is single-handedly turning back the tides of the internet by hand-picking links.

65• 2 years ago

Same goes for programming projects. My most popular projects are always ones that were very quick to make. If I spend months making an app, it always seems like no one cares. If I spend a few days making an app, people will use it.

Perhaps it instead is the simplicity of the idea that resonates with the most people rather than the complexity of the content. Perhaps this isn't a bad thing, either. After all, simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

omoikane• 2 years ago

It might be that things that take more effort to produce also take more effort to consume. When readers face a choice between a well-researched 100 page article versus a short (maybe low effort) quip of 100 characters, they are more likely to view the latter.

sleno• 2 years ago

Funny how it happens like that. Maurice Ravel's most famous piece, Bolero, was written intended as a simple warmup for his orchestra.

shufflerofrocks• 2 years ago

I think it has to do with the desire to consume organic content.

We're currently live in an SEO-optimised hell where everything is monetized. Years of wading through this swill has subconciously made us seek out spontaeneous, unplanned interactions and content, which seem more humane.

Thoughtless social media comments, quips, and many of the funny tweets are prime examples of stuff that is done for the fun of it, without any "ulterior motive" in mind, and refreshing to come across.

gowld• 2 years ago

Surely that throwaway "computer science" tweet only went viral because lcamtuf was already famous and had a high follower count because of their previous, substantial work.

TeMPOraL• 2 years ago

Very good observation, and I strongly agree. A person's shitposting reads differently when they have some name recognition in the audience. Especially that of an expert - I find myself looking into deeper meaning in a throwaway comment that I wouldn't even notice if it came from some random Internet user.

ImaCake2• 2 years ago

Him making this joke is also a product of his expertise. Like, it takes at least some experience to have the insight and then be able to communicate it in a pithy way.

JohnMakin• 2 years ago

Can relate to a lot of this as a very small content creator that has been doing it for fun for over 10 years.

On online weirdos - this is very much a thing. You can pick up weirdly persistent stalkers and haters and it can be exhausting and sometimes scary.

For me, I do it for fun. I find it very frustrating to have conversations with followers/viewers that are wanting me to do $thing and why don't I open subs to $monetize blah blah and I explain that while I do enjoy putting out content, at the end of the day this is for my enjoyment and there is zero chance I can make as much as I do from it as my day job, so I don't. It's very frustrating and a sad state of affairs that people can't seem to grasp the idea of making content for the sake of making content. That's how the early internet was, no one was getting paid, and it put out arguably some of the best there has been.

Regarding hosting/seo stuff, I always let platforms like twitch, meta, YT, etc. manage that for me rather than wrangling SEO hell, but I acknowledge the video space is a bit different than the blog space. For the writing I do, I wouldn't dream of self hosting for the reasons he describes.

zackproser3• 2 years ago

+1 - I picked up my first semi-stalker / email harasser recently from blogging and sending out a newsletter about apps I build and open-source. Pretty weird experience.

paulpauper2• 2 years ago

but otherwise, it’s OK to write about what excites you, and to do it as you learn.”

yeah, but what if no one else cares what you write about or it does not gain traction

QuantumG• 2 years ago

Not everyone cares about that.

jwr• 2 years ago

So what? You care. That's what matters.

exitb• 2 years ago

If the lack of traction takes away from your excitement or ability to learn, it best to just skip writing. It’s fine to do fun stuff just for the sake of it, no need to justify it by getting an audience.

baby3• 2 years ago

#1: It’s still a chore

just use a static site if you can. I think I’m also stuck with an old stack and don’t have the time to move to a static site and I’ve been paying the price for years. All my new stuff is static, pushed on github, deployed by cloudflare pages. Worst was when a linux upgrade deleted a bunch of user content, fortunately I had set up backups! But spent the entire night fixing things. Now I do static site or managed databases.

#2: There are weirdos on the internet

I agree. The worst is when it’s people you know (or even admire) who take a direct (or indirect) stab at you and your content. But I think you can’t let that stop you, because it stops most people from publishing what they have in their brain. The more successful you are the more haters you’ll attract, that’s just the way it is.

_xiaz2• 2 years ago

Any reason in particular for going with cloudflare pages instead of github pages? The latter has served me well for years, but I'm wondering if I'm missing out

immibis4• 2 years ago

Remember that both of these are giant corporations with your worst interests in mind, and they will demand payment or delete your site as soon as it's convenient for them, so don't rely on them too much.

hanniabu• 2 years ago

Netlify and vercel are also great options

baby3• 2 years ago

Custom domains for free

mattgreenrocks• 2 years ago

Hearing about the CTR of his videos vs his followers is really interesting. There’s a narrative that once you build up a sufficient following then you have a better shot at getting eyeballs on future things you make.

But these stats throw some cold water on that. People don’t magically convert from follower to customer or viewer.

I think these narratives are pushed implicitly by the platforms to justify their stranglehold, and the creators themselves who have won big. At a certain scale, the model works, but due to very uneven distribution of attention, it’s tough to be that person.

Also, most social media platforms are so infuriatingly mind-numbing now with everyone running around speaking in that faux-authoritative voice when they’re just offering their opinion.

I want a great reset of the internet where the subject matter experts are the ones getting attention, not the people who post stupid engagement bait all day. But that won’t happen.

gavinhoward3• 2 years ago

This is why you must self-host. And use HN for comments.

You may think I'm joking, but my pure self-hosted website can get more attention through HN if I put effort into blog posts.

I have two blog posts that say the same thing, one with a ragebait tone, and one that is moderate. HN loved the moderate one.

I love this site.

Anyway, I think he hit on the reason: other platforms give you bad signals for their own benefit. HN still gives a good signal, and self-hosting avoids bad signals from bad platforms.

trust_bt_verify• 2 years ago

Hacker news seems to love rage bait and may just align with your biases better than other tech sites. This has certainly been my experience, I often find people I agree with more reasonable before any personal reflection.

gavinhoward3• 2 years ago

That may be true, but my biases are towards more professionalism in the industry, and the VC-backed HN community may not like that.

jfoutz• 2 years ago

completely unrelated (pretty much)

But this is still one of my favorite parts of the internet - https://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/gcnc/ amazing, information dense guide to actually making stuff. I reached out once to the author, who was patient and kind.

I get through my days, I make stuff I do stuff, and I'm generally content with that. The author, lcamtuf, from my very limited interaction seems "extra". Maybe it really just is writing stuff down. Maybe I should do more of that.

salamo• 2 years ago

I decided a long time ago that my main audience will be myself in the future. A blog post is the output of a project which at a minimum forces me to organize my thoughts on something important, and usually involves getting my hands dirty to understand something at a deeper level. I don't care about SEO because I'm writing for myself, not robots. That said, I feel for people trying to monetize because I know I never could.

langsoul-com• 2 years ago

I decided to stop writing blog articles and my podcast recently. It's just a ton of work and non existent gain.

Unless I wanted to do current news and entertainment, traction is just near impossible. At some point, there's no point dreaming of how things should be, or what could be, but look at the cold hard reality that is today.

purple-leafy• 2 years ago

One of my most ambitious projects, I spent nearly every weeknight for 3 months building a tool. I made a good video to present it, and a website. It barely got 100 users.

Then for fun, I randomly made a 60 line bookmarklet, converted it to a chrome extension, posted a shitty video, and it grew to 100,000+ users in like a week.

The masses absorb drivel, not true effort

t0bia_s2• 2 years ago

- Some of my most popular posts are throwaway quips and memes that went viral on social media.

That is mine experience as well. Projects I've spent half year working on is barely noticed, while almost meme content is spreading quite fast. Thats why internet trends are driven by entertainment, not sharing a knowledge or making art in first place.

huijzer2• 2 years ago

Same if you compare Linus Torvalds income with that of a famous singer or football player.

t0bia_s2• 2 years ago

I don't know their income. Do you?

hiAndrewQuinn• 2 years ago

Shitposting is the top of my personal sales funnel. Always has been.

I got married to a wonderful woman I met on Twitter about 4 years ago. We now live together, slowly conquering Europe from the northeast down and to the left. I got multiple interviews and job offers from it, too, none of which I could take sadly because I planned to move to Finland to be with the aforementioned lass. But I knew plenty of others who did.

Shitposting is a game where the rewards to being (smart ∩ charming ∩ really fucking funny sometimes) are disproportionately high. I don't use Twitter anymore, but I see my involvement with it around 2020-2021 as one of the best longshot investments I ever made. By treating it as a gateway drug to the experience that is knowing me as a person, and discovering to my surprise and delight that many people found it extremely worthwhile, I think I permanently deleted any sense that I somehow was too dumb, too awkward, too boring to justify my being.

It was great!

tivert• 2 years ago

Shitposting is the top of my personal sales funnel. Always has been.... I got multiple interviews and job offers from it, too, none of which I could take sadly because I planned to move to Finland to be with the aforementioned lass. But I knew plenty of others who did.

There was a pretty in-depth article about that recently:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/26/nyregion/twitter-lawyers-...

boneitis• 2 years ago

A while ago, I put together an impassioned, contrarian guide to photography, illustrated with a number of interactive shots. The only traffic it’s getting today are confused searches for a porn performer with a vaguely similar name.

This has me spinning, even after skimming the referenced piece. What is the performer's name, and to what does s/he have a similar name?

CM30• 2 years ago

As a YouTuber and content creator myself, this article rings all too true to me. Lots of good points here for anyone looking to get into this game.

It’s still a chore!

Yup. People often underestimate the amount of work it takes to run a blog or YouTube channel in general, and how much of that work doesn't involve the content itself. It's no surprise everyone wants to monetise these things; doing them for free can feel like a second unpaid full-time job in of itself.

There are weirdos on the internet

Unfortunately. Which makes for a deadly combination alongside sudden fame and psychological instability. So much drama can basically be summed up as "assholes discover mentally unstable content creator" or "mentally unstable content creator hits the big time and becomes a worldwide celebrity".

The end result can be an internet car crash that basically destroys any hope of a normal life.

And the more popular you become online, the more likely it is you'll encounter the rare person wanting to make your life a living hell.

Indifference is the real killer

100%. Being hated sucks, but seeing something you worked so hard on go completely ignored... well, that's arguably even worse. Nothing kills motivation faster than the feeling you're not getting anywhere, and platforms like YouTube and Twitch only rub that aspect in your face even more.

Follower counts are a lie

Definitely. YouTube is probably the best example, since it seems the majority of users find content via the recommended videos list and home page feed rather than subscriptions now. But just about everywhere is the same, and it only makes it feel worse when only about 1% of your 10,000 followers seem to actually give a toss about your work.

Money is the root of only some evil

This is an interesting point, though I'm not sure I agree with the example given. Generally I gain followers when I post videos, with the only difference between posting more and less stuff being whether the number grows gradually or slightly more quickly.

Nah, in my opinion, the real root of all evil is that these platforms expect their users to be machines. They expect non stop, consistently posted content on a daily/weekly/hourly basis without fail.

And they also usually don't want you to leave your lane either. If you get popular posting about any one topic (whether a game or series, framework or programming language, sport, band, etc) then they only want you to post about that topic until the day you die.

That's the big problem with content creation and social media right there. And it's the cause of every issue these platforms face.

Why do we get people making meaningless polls about every random topic under the sun? Why has AI generated garbage run rampant? Why is there so much plagiarism from large creators? How have content mills taken over everything?

Because that's how you get things done on the ludicrous schedules expected by these platforms. By giving up your humanity and becoming nothing more than a faceless machine attempting to please the algorithm.

unclear0• 2 years ago

Access audit my entra 8 external unclear.cunt.tv

Some notes on influenceering

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