Spain fines budget airlines €150M over 'abusive' cabin bag and seat charges

https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/31/spain-fines-budget-airlines-abusive-cabin-bag-seat-charges-easyjet-ryanair

by cpncrunch • 2 years ago

72 68 2 years ago

theguardian.com

cpncrunch• 2 years ago

I agree that the 20E charge to print a paper ticket seems excessive, but I'm not sure about the bag fees. I know it's a bit annoying to get nickle and dimed for everything, but on the other hand it makes sense to only charge passengers for the services they need.

kyriakos• 2 years ago

It's about carry on bag not checked in luggage though.

marcinzm2• 2 years ago

It still costs fuel to carry the weight and slows down the boarding/un-boarding process. Especially if overhead bins fill up and bags need to be, chaotically, checked in at the gate since then you also need more gate attendants. Some passengers don't need anything more than the personal under seat bag for their trip.

So charging for carry on bags is a logical approach if you wish to minimize the operating costs of the airline which budget airlines do.

lxgr5• 2 years ago

20€ seems almost reasonable – I think I’ve seen Ryanair charge far more than 100 at some point.

gpm2• 2 years ago

100€ for a... piece of paper!?

pzmarzly• 2 years ago

I was caught by this surprise pricing once, so I'll explain: printing a boarding pass at the airport is €20, but that's only if you have checked in online beforehand.

But checking in in-person is €0 only if there's more than 2 hours left until the planned departure, it is €55 if there is less. So in practice, a lot of people end up paying €75 for something that's free when flying with other airlines.

In Ryanair's defence, they explain it on their site. But if you are booking via e.g. Kiwi.com, you will probably never visit Ryanair's site and you will miss this detail.

dzhiurgis• 2 years ago

Ryanair doesn’t allow you to login online for printing tickets with just PNR - they require email for 2fa. Which you don’t get when booking via third party. Got caught by this while travelling with a party of 6. €120 down the drain. Third party sheds any responsibility.

m4632• 2 years ago

I think paper tickets should be always be free.

A better approach would be to offer an incentive for tickets on your phone (as long as it wasn't a data grab)

Tenoke2• 2 years ago

Just checkin for free on your phone and use your phone as a ticket. I fly with Ryanair often enough and honestly wasn't even aware there's still a fee like that.

anonzzzies3• 2 years ago

As other said here; if you book via a 3rd party and you have very little experience (you are a holiday traveller), you don’t know that you have to or how to login to the Ryanair site as they don’t tell you. So when you arrive at the airport you have a nice expensive surprise for the family.

TacticalCoder• 2 years ago

Spain could also look into fining all these scammy car rental agencies that operate at or near airport. They are totally abusive and should be not just fined but fined to death.

It's these kind of things, as in TFA, that makes life miserable for tourists.

Xenoamorphous• 2 years ago

I’m curious, how are those scammy? I always rent the car in advance and never had any issue, I’ve done that in Spain several times but only in the islands (Canary and Balearic).

oliwarner2• 2 years ago

They're thieves, hiding behind walls of small print.

We booked one in France through Avis. Rocked up and they wanted either a €2000 refundable deposit or a €350 non-refundable waiver. We were deep into a home renovation, couldn't afford the refundable option if we also wanted food on holiday, had to take the hit.

That's over the top of a €950 10 day rental for a 3 year old Seat, its gearbox nearing the end of its short cruel life.

And we were treated like this because we'd used a reseller. The person before us didn't have our experience and the guy there was happy enough to explain how they hide details like this from comparison websites and everyone assumes they'll get the standard rental agreement. Loads of people get stung on the waiver.

lkdfjlkdfjlg2• 2 years ago

I'd like to hear more about this.

It's always been unpleasant interacting with them, but I haven't seen anything abusive. Usually I'm told I either have to leave a huge deposit or buy insurance. Is this what the abuse is supposed to be? I don't love it, but I can't say it's a crazy notion.

FireBeyond3• 2 years ago

Even in Alaska, if you go to Anchorage you’d be well advised to take an Uber to a car rental place at least a couple of miles from the airport.

All sorts of BS, like “we have to phone your insurance company to verify your coverages” (at 11pm), or same with credit card, etc, to be “allowed” to waive their insurance. Oh, and the regular car you reserved, and several of them you can see on the lot? They’re unavailable. And the manager isn’t here to authorize a discount on a larger or premium vehicle. And so on.

anonzzzies3• 2 years ago

We have had some bad issues with them with people coming to visit us so now we just take them to a rental outside the airport (there are enough very close by). Solves the problem. Get a taxi or Uber there and done.

But agreed; should be (probably is) illegal.

JansjoFromIkea2• 2 years ago

My very selfish reason for becoming pro cabin bag charges is how much quicker it has made boarding planes.

The way people took the piss with the bags they brought on board before was ridiculous and resulted in a big delay of people trying to find space for their oversized bags of stuff they absolutely don't need for their weekend trip.

ghaff2• 2 years ago

I've been a bit skeptical of this theory. It's not really true of budget airlines but business travelers and frequent flyers with status just don't want to check bags because it takes longer and can have complications with flight changes.

Personally, I rarely check bags (mostly if I need checked for outdoor activities) but the money has basically nothing to do with it.

JansjoFromIkea2• 2 years ago

Sorry I wasn't even thinking about non-budget airlines when I commented. I was talking about budget airlines (Ryanair, specifically) with my comment

FireBeyond3• 2 years ago

People started doing it in part because the airlines were taking outrageous times to get bags.

Ironically, that’s been very much improved. With Delta and Alaska now, it’s actually quite rare that I get to baggage claim and my bags are not already there.

nico• 2 years ago

True. Recently flew Alaska. They announced on speaker that if your bag didn’t come out within a certain time (I think it was 20min), you were entitled to some compensation or even the refund of the flight

zeroonetwothree• 2 years ago

It really depends on the airport not so much the airline.

cjk2• 2 years ago

Yeah this. Also the plane tickets are so bloody cheap these days that the baggage doesn't hurt a bit.

bobthepanda• 2 years ago

at least in the US they started asking people to pay for checked bags first, so the airlines caused this whole "rush for the overhead bins" problem.

marcosdumay• 2 years ago

In Brazil too. There used to be plenty of space on the overhead bins, and people used to get in and out of the plane without any hush or messy corridors.

m4632• 2 years ago

I think not charging for checked bags and some sort of friction for carry-on bags would be best.

Maybe checked bags are free, and people with carry-on bags board last (unless they have kids)

kjkjadksj• 2 years ago

Basically what spirit does is charge you $65 for a carry on but $60 for a checked bag. Fastest boarding/deboarding experience I’ve seen short of when you get to walk on the tarmac and access the plane from both ends.

nickjj3• 2 years ago

I'm surprised they didn't mention TAP Air Portugal which routinely flies from Portugal to Spain using standard sized planes. They also have a number of international flights from the US to Portugal.

Their hand bag requirement is substantially smaller than most other airlines.

It's 16" x 12" x 6" (40cm x 30cm x 15cm) with a 4.4 lb (2 kg) max weight. That depth 6" / 15cm measurement is substantially smaller than most other airlines as well as the weight. Most other airlines have 2-3" (~5cm) more in depth and allow triple the weight. It makes a noticeable difference if you plan a trip with 2 backpacks.

If you happen to need to check it at the gate, they charge $80-$220 USD depending on where you're coming from and going to.

aeurielesn• 2 years ago

The government investigation also looked at concerns around a lack of transparency by the airlines over the final price of services when booking online, and the decision to block cash payments at the airport for additional services.

I just went through this a week ago and I was shocked RyanAir was doing this as I was sure this was not legal in the EU.

jmclnx• 2 years ago

I am slight surprised over this, but seems to follow what the US Does with these fines.

If it was up to me, all passengers for say the past 7 years will get a full refund of all their baggage fees + 100 EUR + 10% interest compounded per year.

JumpCrisscross3• 2 years ago

all passengers for say the past 7 years will get a full refund of all their baggage fees + 100 EUR + 10% interest compounded per year

Congratulations, you have an airline monopoly because everyone went bankrupt or became so imperilled they had to merge to survive.

dylan604• 2 years ago

This is what I came to comment about as well. In other words, it's just a tax without going to the legislature to implement the tax. It will only be levied when someone decides it's time to levy it again, so it's somewhat convenient.

The government didn't pay those heinous fees, yet they end up with the money? Like seriously, who does that make sense to other than corrupt bureaucrats? The obvious thing would be as you suggest to refund fees directly to those that were charged. Maybe then levy a fine on top of those refunds as a punishment that goes to the government just to add salt to the wound.

Tenoke2• 2 years ago

I just flew with Ryanair and yes, the fees for luggage etc are expensive, but if you don't take luggage and any extras they offer, they are amazing value. I hope the cheap airlines don't get overrun with fines because if not for them I'd barely see my parents.

madjam002• 2 years ago

I've flown a lot with Ryanair, Easyjet and Wizz Air, and apart from Wizz Air adding mysterious a "System surcharge" if you use an ad blocker (although I think they've stopped doing this), I don't mind the extra charges at all.

Surely if they ban cabin bag and seat charges, then the base fare is just going to go up for everyone?

Memes and jokes aside, I actually find Ryanair to be a better service a lot of the time compared to Easyjet and more transparent with pricing, even though Easyjet is almost always more expensive on the routes I fly.

throwaway220322• 2 years ago

I don't mind the extra charges but I question whether removing the fines associated with them would result in an increase in base fare.

If they just universally enforced that all oversize bags paid the £15 or whatever priority fee, instead of some people just getting unlucky because they didn't bring a tape measure on holiday and are 3cm over, I think it could even be net positive revenue wise.

throwaway220322• 2 years ago

It would be much better if they just had a streamlined process for charging for larger bags at the airport, and if the fee were roughly the same whether done in advance or not.

As it stands, forgetting that Wizz Air requires bags 6cm smaller than easyJet and then getting told you can either pay more than your ticket cost originally or go home, but only sometimes if you get "caught", is just a bit... I dunno, uncivilized, I guess?

If you make it say, £15 in advance, £20 at the airport, that is enough to encourage people to do it in advance as long as bags are all checked, you don't need to be punitive.

Euphorbium• 2 years ago

If all the countries in EU did that, it would matter. Now it is just a drop in a bucket.

ph1lw• 2 years ago

This would be a good moment to raise the taxes for airlines to have it aligned with rail travel. Demand goes down and they will adjust their additional charges.

padf• 2 years ago

The taxes are 'abusive' because they are sometimes very carefully "hidden". Ryan Air is wonderful compared to the nightmare called WizzAir.

The issues with WizzAir:

-Administrative fees of 9 Euro on each flight, for each passenger.

-Trolley bag (10 kg) an extra of around 60 Euros.

-Want have the same fare for 48 hours? Pay an extra 12 Euros.

-After that, checked in bag, is around 40 Euros per flight.

-Check in at the airport costs around 40 Euros.

-Online check in costs 5 Euros, and the say they mail you the tickets two days before.

-They don't mail you the tickets and they don't say anywhere you can only print the tickets on the same day of the flight (atrocious if the flight is at 6 am).

-You can get a refund for a cancelled flight, but the refund link cannot be found on their site. You have a post on Trip Advisor that points to that site.

-If you have paid for a small check in bag (10 kg) but bring that bag to the plane that's an extra 58 Euros (I can live with that).

-The boarding queue may stop for around 15 minutes, because a client needs to pay 58+58 Euros and the boarding attendant is unable to calculate such a complicated mathematical operation, needing the intervention of another boarding attendant (busy). That is a big no NO!

-Of course the web site has "bugs" and you may encounter "issues" that may force you to restart your session, specifically when asking for a refund...

-The "bugs" do not depend on the browser, or the OS (tested on Windows, OSX and Linux).

Spain fines budget airlines €150M over 'abusive' cabin bag and seat charges

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