Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-59387182

by Caiero • 2 years ago

107 90 2 years ago

TillE2• 2 years ago

A Hard Day's Night is great because it's basically just them goofing around. The rest of the Beatles films have their charms, but they're not actors. I really can't imagine that the idea was to do a straight LOTR adaptation, it must have been some kind of parody. The whole appeal of the Beatles on screen is that they're funny.

dhosek2• 2 years ago

No doubt, Help! also fits into the Beatles goofing off schema, and I think a Beatles LotR would be similar, but admit it, it would be fun, like the 1967 version of Casino Royale.

tetris113• 2 years ago

Yesterday painted them as literal Gods, instead of just decent musicians at the right place at the right time.

To this day I go out of my way to ward people away from that terrible film.

vips7L• 2 years ago

I thought that movie was fun for what it was.

arnavpraneet• 2 years ago

Did we watch the same movie? It was more about their cultural impact than painting them as gods

dhosek2• 2 years ago

On a related note, Let It Be was just re-released via Disney+ a week or so ago. It’s a bit redundant in the wake of Jackson’s Get Back, and it was interesting to see what Lindsay-Hogg did with the material, but I have to say it was generally inferior to Get Back in just about every way.

lchengify2• 2 years ago

This only would have worked if it was animated. The 1977 Hobbit film which was produced for NBC [1] was a excellent adaptation, and Yellow Submarine is in the same style. I would argue Yellow Submarine also has many of the same themes, if not more absurdist than fantasy.

Also fun fact I just realized you can stream Yellow Submarine for free on archive.org [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hobbit_(1977_film)

[2] https://archive.org/details/yellow-submarine-1968_film

jl6• 2 years ago

How is that film just available for free like that?

ghaff• 2 years ago

Presumably because no one's made them take it down.

dudinax3• 2 years ago

Almost any released movie of any note, and a great many of no note are available for free.

KineticLensman• 2 years ago

The 1977 Hobbit film which was produced for NBC [1] was a excellent adaptation

I've not seen the 1977 Hobbit film, but I note that your reference [1] prominently says: "The Tolkien scholar Douglas A. Anderson called the adaptation "execrable"; the author Baird Searles called it an "abomination" and an attempt that had "failed miserably", regretting the quality of the animation and of the soundtrack, and the omission of key plot points."

ianbicking• 2 years ago

The 1977 Hobbit has its issues, but having watched it recently I feel like it does well with capturing the vibe of the book, especially the first half (it does really fall apart later). I personally find Peter Jackson's version of the Hobbit unwatchable for the same reason... he takes the LOTR vibe and imposes it onto a much more innocent story.

aiforecastthway• 2 years ago

The thing that I like about the Hobbit 77 film is that it realizes the material is a child's fantasy book. It's a breath of fresh air in a our current era -- where VCs seem to understand that any attempt to profit off of the American taxpayer's defense spending requires some Tolkien reference in the company name.

The existence of the '77 animated adaptation is our last reminder that the Generals green-lighting all this spend are literally mid-witted man-children.

Affric2• 2 years ago

The Beatles had nothing to do with the production of Yellow Submarine apart from money until the end.

lchengify2• 2 years ago

Ok I didn't believe you at first, but holy crap you're right, they didn't even do the voices.

Not going to lie part of my childhood died a little :(. "Help" is them though I watched that too.

pityJuke• 2 years ago

(2021)

Noticed the Weta Digital mention and was very confused

karaterobot3• 2 years ago

"Ultimately, they couldn't get the rights from Tolkien, because he didn't like the idea of a pop group doing his story. So it got nixed by him. They tried to do it. There's no doubt about it.

I'm a Beatles fan. Tolkien was right to be skeptical, it would have been terrible. No doubt in my mind: campy, perfunctory, self-mocking. Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s, if you'd like some precedent for what this would have looked like.

dudinax3• 2 years ago

Sure, but it's wrong that he was able to stop it.

We lost what could have been an interesting piece of art.

We should have more adaptations in the world not fewer.

rcstank• 2 years ago

It's his own creation. He had every right to stop it. I don't see how this is wrong at all.

Drunk_Engineer2• 2 years ago

They wanted Kubrick to direct, so it could have been a serious effort (Kubrick declined).

api• 2 years ago

I’m not 100% sure Tolkien is right for Kubrick. Maybe but I’d be concerned that he’d make it a little too ponderous and symbolic. He’d nail the spooky dark aura around the ring though. But with the Beatles? Nah no way.

Peter Jackson’s adaptation was so authentic it looked at places just like my mental imagery looked as I was reading the book. That’s a tough thing to pull off in and of itself.

Spielberg would have made it campy. Lynch would have made it surreal, might have been cool but like his Dune would be a weird cult film take. (I like Lynch’s Dune but it’s weird.)

For some reason I think Ridley Scott could have done it if he could have gotten his head out of sci fi.

parpfish2• 2 years ago

knowing what i know about how the beatles behave and how kubrick directs... there would've been a monumental clash of personalities behind the scenes

usrusr• 2 years ago

I really think you are right, but there's a contrarian part of me now imagining something that is almost identical with that Ballad of Bilbo Baggins video that was allegedly forced on Leonard Nimoy by terrible TV producers, magically turned good through the Beatles touch.

Who knows, as unlikely as it certainly is, perhaps knowledge of the Nimoy TV sequence was what made Tolkien protect The Beatles from embarrassing themselves on middle earth.

RichardCA• 2 years ago

It wasn't forced, he did it as a favor to Charles Randolph Grean, who had produced his record albums and was responsible for that skit on the "Malibu U" variety show.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Randolph_Grean

Animats• 2 years ago

Yes. The breakthrough was "Batman", 1989, which redefined the fantasy/superhero genre. Before that, fantasy/superhero stuff was silly, unrealistic, or both. "Batman" changed that.

Of course, where that got us was franchises with endless sequels.

prawn• 2 years ago

I think the sequels are easy to ignore and tolerable bycatch if it means you get strong films amongst them - Batman Begins, Dark Knight, Dark Knight Rises, Logan, Infinity War (even just for a great villain), and (last but definitely not least) Into the Spider-Verse, etc. That last one is a relevant example given how many Spider-Man films there are and how few of them I've bothered watching.

tambourine_man• 2 years ago

Richard Donner‘s Superman, the first movie from 78, was a good serious movie. It later got more comical with Richard Pryor in Superman III

watwut• 2 years ago

Superhero stuff is still completely unrealistic in all levels.

ants_everywhere• 2 years ago

I don't know, the Peter Jackson LOTR seems to owe a great deal to the 1973 Ralph Bakshi animated version. Some shots are nearly identical. And 1973 < 2000.

karaterobot3• 2 years ago

Well, I disagree with you about the non-camp quality of the 1978 Ralph Bakshi Lord of the Rings, but even if that were true, are you saying that changes the track record of SF and fantasy movies in that period?

shagie3• 2 years ago

Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s

And I present The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins. https://youtu.be/BC35cQKHwzg?si=KWIbiEpEVb36tqh1

metadat• 2 years ago

It's willy wonka meets LOTR.

Thanks, I hate it.

CoastalCoder• 2 years ago

Why would you... even...

... ?

TillE2• 2 years ago

It's so easy to imagine Lennon doing a Gollum that's funny for five seconds and then just incredibly irritating.

aspenmayer• 2 years ago

Gollum that's funny for five seconds and then just incredibly irritating.

This is the canonical Gollum of the original text. Only half-kidding.

Now that I think about it, the Beatles probably could have made all those songs and rhymes from the source material really sing.

Only a matter of time before someone uses voice cloning and video generation AI models to make this, and when they do, I’ll probably watch it, or at least watch a YouTube personality do a deep dive on it.

tjmc• 2 years ago

Yoko would have made a great Wormtongue though

jasonfarnon2• 2 years ago

No doubt in my mind: campy, perfunctory, self-mocking. Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s,

I don't remember comic books being "nerd" material before the 2000s (like say computers or computer programming). They were "children's" material, and for whatever reason the market moved toward older teens and adults. The main comics weren't written/illustrated to be "campy, perfunctory, self-mocking", though an adult may have regarded them that way. Similar story with videogames.

parpfish2• 2 years ago

The simpsons had “comic book guy” as their primary adult nerd character since ‘91

karaterobot3• 2 years ago

I don't remember comic books being "nerd" material before the 2000s (like say computers or computer programming)

I'm not sure how comic books got into this. But comics were definitely for nerds: basically, socially-inept people who did things like reading instead of going out to parties. Computers were not central to the definition of nerd.

stevekemp• 2 years ago

From "The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien" we see what he agreed with his publishers:

"Stanley & I have agreed on our policy : Art or Cash. Either very profitable terms indeed; or absolute author's veto on objectionable features or alterations."

It might have been interesting to see how Tolkien might have vetoed things, or demanded changes. We see from his letters how strongly he viewed many things.

We also see at least one critique of a film-proposal - though off-hand I cannot remember who's film-script it was..

duxup• 2 years ago

Wish we knew what that even would have been like. Did they really imagine a 60s/70s stylized LOTR with more modern music?

Had they gotten the rights, would it even have been made?

jmbwell• 2 years ago

This was my question. The article mentioned the project was proposed by a producer. I gather the Beatles at the time were throwing money into all kinds of things that would go nowhere. I could see this as an earnest attempt to make the film, but also as an attempt to lock in access to the funding, rights to future works, who knows what else from a business perspective. Buying things just because it would be cool to have them. Let someone else figure out the details…

VelesDude• 2 years ago

I wonder if they would have gone down the path of many bands in the late 60s and have those long spoken word poetry stretches. That said, thanks to things like that I do love how often you see Michael Moorecocks name popping up.

cyclecount• 2 years ago

Article is from 2021

s_dev• 2 years ago

The real tragedy is we'll never know how Guilermo Del Toro's version of The Hobbit would have turned out. Studio screwed up scheduling and had to get Jackson back in.

prpl• 2 years ago

If it only it was Led Zeppelin instead

mateus1• 2 years ago

Now I wish that was real. Just imagine the guitar shredding while Gandalf battles the Balrog

scop• 2 years ago

On the topic of bands covering Tolkien’s work, you’re in for a treat if you have never listened to Nightfall in Middle-Earth by Blind Guardian. It is a power metal telling of The Silmarillion.

LAC-Tech• 2 years ago

As a fan of the books first, I even find it hard to enjoy Peter Jacksons movies. The dialogue is dumbed down, and it's all very cheesey and hollywood. Probably would've enjoyed it a lot more if I'd never read Tolkien.

Also being a New Zealander it was very jarring that this fantasy world I had grown up with turned out to be... where I live. I get people dig the scenery, but I kept thinking "did we pull over there once to use the toilets?" or "is that where they shot that ad for Toyotas?"

Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

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