Meet the tireless entrepreneur who squatted at AOL

http://news.cnet.com/8301-32973_3-57440513-296/meet-the-tireless-entrepreneur-who-squatted-at-aol/

by streeter • 14 years ago

435 198 14 years ago

news.cnet.com

cfinke2• 14 years ago

Judging by the gossip I heard while at AOL, he surely isn't the only person using AOL's offices and food without contributing to AOL, but he's the only one who isn't actually employed by AOL.

alaskamiller• 14 years ago

Good hustle, Eric. Sorry for dropping the ball on not getting back to ya but you've been making do better than I can.

easy• 14 years ago

This guy is fantastic. If what he's doing now with the new incubator doesn't work out I hope he considers applying to YC. Living at AOL is at least a good a story as selling cereal.

citricsquid• 14 years ago

> Update 9:31 a.m. PT: This story has been updated with a response from AOL.

What was the response? I can't find it in the article, would be interesting to see it.

dangrossman• 14 years ago

> Contacted for comment, David Temkin, senior vice president of Mail and Mobile for AOL, told CNET, "It was always our intention to facilitate entrepreneurialism in the Palo Alto office -- we just didn't expect it to work so well."

DiabloD3• 14 years ago

Understatement of the year.

jconley• 14 years ago

I wonder if he was eating our food. Playdom has three meals a day "up stairs" in that building, where we are headquartered and have an entire floor. There is also another startup incubator in this building. It's pretty funny they just mention AOL in the article.

dpiers• 14 years ago

Shameless self-promotion: If you guys want to have three awesome meals a day, you should check out ZeroCater. We will hook you up with food from the best places around. :)

jmtame6• 14 years ago

He also has been solo the whole time, which makes it more impressive. He had a cofounder who gave up, but Eric never budged.

duskwuff• 14 years ago

Reminds me of the story of Graphing Calculator:

http://www.pacifict.com/Story/

jacquesm• 14 years ago

That's awesome, thanks duskwuff.

Just one quote: "I asked my friend Greg Robbins to help me. His contract in another division at Apple had just ended, so he told his manager that he would start reporting to me. She didn't ask who I was and let him keep his office and badge. In turn, I told people that I was reporting to him. Since that left no managers in the loop, we had no meetings and could be extremely productive."

If you have a spare 15 minutes you really should read this.

dhimes• 14 years ago

Exactly what I was thinking.

Mystitat• 14 years ago

I hate stories like this. They set unrealistic expectations for managers of developers: "Well, if you won't, we can find someone who would love to do this for free."

hkmurakami• 14 years ago

Reading this story made me incredibly depressed that I am no longer an engineer :(

(Thanks so much for the link though, it was one of the most inspiring stories I've read this year)

Mz2• 14 years ago

Homeless entrepreneurs: The new cool thing.

Now I just need $50k or so.

jarek2• 14 years ago

And a contact at CNET.

uptown3• 14 years ago

Anybody know his Twitter username? The one linked to from the "About Us" page doesn't work.

ericmsimons• 14 years ago

Hi! My twitter is http://twitter.com/#!/ericsimons40 - not sure why it didn't work from the about page :O

andyobryan• 14 years ago

Either your page is down OR your spike in followers just crashed them...

Either way, good work!

uptown3• 14 years ago

It's weird, it works fine in Safari, but not in Chrome (Version 21.0.1145.0 dev).

uptown3• 14 years ago

This explains it:

@Support: Some users are having trouble accessing Twitter on the web. Our engineers are looking into it.

https://twitter.com/support/status/205735369034039297

dsirijus• 14 years ago

I'm not are you aware of it, but you should pivot your start-up to something more in the lines of computer/bed/workplace/food sharing thingie for young enterpreneurs. And they pay you by their coding/designing man-hours (which you use to further your initial startup idea).

As I've similarly leeched for 2-3 weeks at my companies infrastructure with 5 china shop shirts/undies/pants, I relate and kudo you.

gonein60• 14 years ago

Too bad his incubator wasn't at Google. He probably could have lived a little better down in Mountain View.

ChuckMcM4• 14 years ago

Its a neat story. When I read the headline I thought it was a Mike Arrington story :-)

We joked at Google that they really did want you to live there but their secops team would not let a non-employee do this.

However for a potential investor this is a great demonstration of how committed someone is to their idea, and their passion. I don't doubt for a moment that Eric will be successful at what ever he sets out to do, you can't buy that kind of focus.

nupark213• 14 years ago

It's also a demonstration of an ethical failure. It was theft.

fragsworth• 14 years ago

Unfortunately, many investors would not see this as a bad thing.

ChuckMcM4• 14 years ago

I could argue it both ways (theft and non-theft) which, for me, puts it into the ethically 'grey' area of interpretation.

I would reason to 'non-theft' based on an argument that AOL gave access to the building (badge) and provides services for people with access to the building, therefore giving access was tacit agreement to the use of the facilities. Other employees no doubt sleep there on occasion and that it also tacitly allowed. Therefore non-theft.

I would reason to the 'theft' conclusion that AOL provides services to incubators and to employees but does not explicitly extend employee benefits to incubator attendees. Using services and consumables that are provided to AOL employees is outside the scope of services offered to incubator participants. Therefore Theft.

Eric was aware of this grey area, clearly trying to stay outside the regular patrol of security, and thus actively trying to not force a resolution on the question of allowed or not allowed. His response when the resolution occurred appears to be 100% compliance.

If I were considering investing in Eric's activities I would consider both parts of that story, the first where he exploits a grey area and the second how he responds to being discovered.

In my experience it is people who take Eric's approach of interpreting grey areas in the most optimistic way until shown otherwise, and being 100% rule following on explicit rulings, are successful. There are thresholds of course, if there were signs that said "No one is allowed to sleep in this facility" or "At no time will anyone spend more than 12 out of 24 hrs in a day in this facility" or even more general guidelines that define a standard for defining 'living on site' and a express a prohibition against it. Something which might say "You would be considered to be living here if you spend more than 100 hrs a week or do more than 3 loads of laundry or sleep more than 12 hrs a week or eat more than 12 nominal meals at the facility" etc. AOL could call it out, but they haven't. And that leaves it open to interpretation.

In the business world that is sometimes called 'moxie' or 'stones' or any number of euphemisms and its generally respected.

What is not respected is explicit exploitation. So for example when I worked at Google the mini-kitchens all had refrigerators that were full of beverages. A small number of employees were found to be exploiting this 'perk'. An example of that which was given was an employee that prior to the weekend, would take an empty back pack and fill it with anywhere from 20 to 50 beverages to take home. That was 'theft' in the sense that the intention was for the beverages to be enjoyed at work not at home, even if you were working from home. But it was theft because of the quantity not because of the taking. Taking one beverage to drink while riding the shuttle home? Not a problem although you were not 'technically' at work any more.

I think Eric intentionally interpreted the situation in a way that would support his actions, and recognized that those actions might not be completely inline with the intent, and waited for AOL to express its intent. I don't think he ever believed AOL would 'endorse' his living on campus while he worked on his startup (incubator participation not withstanding) but I could see a case for it being an open question if not explicitly disallowed.

jmtame6• 14 years ago

If Eric goes on to create a billion dollar business, has he not created more value that benefits society by creating jobs and overall economic value? Would you argue all of that value creation isn't worth the meager amount that he got out of hanging around AOL?

Steve Jobs dropped out of college and attended classes free of charge. Would you argue that he should never have started Apple, despite getting a free ride on a few classes?

cpeterso2• 14 years ago

> We joked at Google that they really did want you to live there

I heard from some Googlers that the company had considered building an apartment complex on or near the Mountain View campus. We joked that was Google building a "company town" and would pay employees with scrip that was only good at the company store.

rdtsc2• 14 years ago

Hearing about AOL throws me back to the late 90s.

And whenever I hear about them it is never in a technical context as in "check out this new database AOL techs created" it is more of "remember how AOL used to send people a ton of CDs?" or "Check out the statistics of people still using dial up"

I don't even remember what made them sort of quitely disappear from the radar? Was it broadband from cable companies and Verizon's Fios?

So I am wondering what do AOL tech people do there? Is it just maintenance to keep the dial-up server pool working?

cfinke2• 14 years ago

Tech people at AOL not involved in maintaining the dial-up service are working on about.me, AIM, AOL.com, the Blogsmith CMS, features for blogs running on the Blogsmith CMS (Engadget, Autoblog, etc.), AOL Desktop, Games.com, Huffington Post, AOL Mail, Mapquest, Moviefone, Patch, Shortcuts, TechCrunch, and Winamp, to name a few.

Splines• 14 years ago

aka "I'm not dead yet"

rdtsc2• 14 years ago

And out of those things the last thing I remember using was probably reading an article from huffpo or techcrunch.

joshuamerrill6• 14 years ago

While I applaud Eric's inexhaustible dedication to his company and mission, taking advantage of AOL in order to accomplish it is disgustingly unethical. It just makes it harder for other entrepreneurs who share that dedication but have chosen to build their businesses above-board.

I'm glad AOL has a sense of humor about this. But you can be sure that this incident will create additional requirements and restrictions for the [honest] entrepreneurs who still remain in the building.

west1737• 14 years ago

Do what you have to do. AOL is no worse for having someone sleeping on their couch.

nupark213• 14 years ago

AOL out the funds they spent on his theft of service and resources, and they're out the time they spent having security figure out why someone was sleeping there. They've been embarrassed in the press, and they're that much less likely to trust people that are part of their entrepreneur programs in the future.

The security staff in question was probably reprimanded for their failure to detect the interloper -- he abused the trust he had gained by previously becoming a "known" face.

You do what you have to do, ethically, to succeed.

phodo• 14 years ago

I applaud him (a former employee did this at one of the incubators in the valley and I always thought: mad respect), but want to to comment on the "no worse" statement. This is a typical tragedy of the commons mentality:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

Sure, if one person does this, AOL is no worse off, but if everyone adopts this attitude, it will have an adverse effect.

3pt14159• 14 years ago

Sorta... It's still stealing gym time, electricity, showers, laundry, and work space. The ends don't justify the means.

Though, companies like AOL or Google could totally make this a legit practice by asking for 2% or something of any startup that comes out of it.

joshuamerrill6• 14 years ago

AOL is a public company that has a responsibility for ensuring the safety and security of its employees and IP. That includes logging in or badging visitors, requiring contracts like NDAs, and requiring background checks. This entrepreneur skirted all those requirements.

So while AOL may not be worse off for having someone sleeping on their couch IN THIS CASE, you can bet that the hammer will come down on the rest of us in the building. From AOL's perspective, it could just as easily have been a homeless person with psychological issues. Honest entrepreneurs will suffer because of this.

webwright• 14 years ago

Stealing from someone just because they can afford it doesn't make it ethical.

larrys3• 14 years ago

"AOL is no worse for having someone sleeping on their couch."

The assumption the companies has is that the building is clear each night. Having a person there could be an issue simply if there is a fire or other event and emergency personnel involved. In no way can any responsible company tolerate this type of stowaway.

sandieman3• 14 years ago

"Disgustingly unethical" is a little much.

AOL is going to get press out of this that am sure they will find worth the few months of squatting.

Also, entrepreneurs break rules in order to get stuff done. I applaud Eric and look forward to seeing him do well in the future.

carbocation• 14 years ago

It's probably too little. I would imagine this is tortious behavior, but IANAL.

nupark213• 14 years ago

> AOL is going to get press out of this that am sure they will find worth the few months of squatting.

That's AOL's decision to make. Not yours, not his.

> Also, entrepreneurs break rules in order to get stuff done.

Unethical people engage in unethical behavior (which is sometimes "breaking rules") in order to get stuff done.

Plenty of entrepreneurs do business honestly, and I'd rather read about them. I don't need a news story to tell me that behaving unethically can provide gains at a cost to others.

webXL• 14 years ago

Yeah, I thought AOL folded years ago. Good to see they're still around and that at least one kid is actually being productive there! zing!

jaylevitt• 14 years ago

As the self-appointed permanent apologist for all things AOL, I declare that what Eric did is totally cool. Any work resources he used can be offset by our collective 24-hour work days from 1995-2000 - and we were denied Starbucks, wi-fi and telecommuting on account of they didn't exist yet.

I spent plenty of nights at the terminal and afternoons asleep on those couches; Eric's nighttime efforts will ensure that they wear evenly.

Eric: Welcome!

(AOL 1989-2001)

tannerc• 14 years ago

This is an entertaining story, at most. The pursuit of round after round of funding that Eric - and many other entrepreneurs, surely - are striving for is concerning. What ever happened to the pursuit of a savvy business that brings in real profit? The hunt for funding needs to be replaced with a hunt for sustainability.

Am I wrong for believing that?

freshhawk• 14 years ago

I agree that it is concerning.

The worst part is that I've seen attiudes subtly shift away from real entrepreneurial spirit and towards a "how do we make ourselves attractive to patrons" attitude.

It's a pragmatic choice, if you are going to be the subject of patronage and treated as such then you don't work on building a business you work on pleasing the patron so he and his friends will keep giving you money.

It's an unintended consequence of the very healthy VC/Angel ecosystem and consumer internet sites that are hard to monetize but still valued by the public. Maybe it's just a weird blip and not a big deal. But it's a direction that strikes me as unhealthy.

sparknlaunch12• 14 years ago

Great story and lucky for Eric he wasn't locked up in prison. Worth noting he was involved in an earlier project at AOL and they hadn't deactivated his pass. A without this things may have gone the other way.

I think Gates and Jobs spent nights at places they were working at, leveraging off free to use, latest technology.

His startup idea is great. There are variations out there already but maybe this story and network will turn this into something successful.

yardie• 14 years ago

I had a friend that claimed he was squatting at Virginia Tech's Math Emporium. At the time I assumed he was joking (they didn't have showers) but now I'm not so sure anymore. And it's not like college students are renowned for their personal hygiene.

ja27• 14 years ago

We had a homeless guy living in our dorm lounge for almost a week before someone realized he wasn't a student.

cpeterso2• 14 years ago

I'm reminded of Rodney Rothman's My Fake Job (New Yorker, November 2000), a "personal history about the writer's tenure at an unnamed downtown Internet company where he did not actually have a job":

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2000/11/27/2000_11_27_120_T...

* Reporter's fake job irks real dot-com: http://articles.cnn.com/2000-12-05/tech/reporter.irks.dot.co...

iblaine• 14 years ago

Break the rules when it fits your own interests. This kid should leave the valley and move to Wall St.

edw519• 14 years ago

...given just $20,000 by the incubator, and after the four-month program ended, the money was gone...

...after pivoting and focusing solely on letting teachers share lesson plans, Simons said he was able to score $50,000 in seed funding from Ulu Ventures and Silicon Valley VC Paul Sherer.

Now, Simons said, he's looking to raise an additional $500,000.

So is Simons just a kid with a particularly honed entrepreneurial spirit?

Exactly when did the definition of entrepreneur change from "build a sustainable business that provides value to its customers" to "survive long enough for the next round of investment"?

I admire Eric for his tenacity (most others would have quit long ago), but I'd much rather hear about when he actually sells something.

vladd• 14 years ago

He used AOL infrastructure to build his company, I'm wondering if he disclosed that to investors as he's pretty liable to them otherwise.

It's lesson number #1 (don't use your employer's computer off-hours when working on your own projects) for people that try to build something outside their company's influence.

danvideo• 14 years ago

Might be wrong, but isn't California law especially lenient about ownership of work produced outside of work hours? (vs. here in NYC, for example)

chops• 14 years ago

But he's not an AOL employee and had no contractual obligation to them. He just crashed there, working on his own computer, and eating AOL's food and sleeping on their couches.

larrys3• 14 years ago

"He used AOL infrastructure to build his company"

Hard to believe that this isn't also some kind of tort or trespass of which AOL could bring charges against him or stake a claim should he have some future gain from activities done at their expense (as nominal as that is).

I'm surprised they are treating it the way they are other than the obvious negative publicity that would ensue.

I mean if someone stayed for months in a department store overnight I don't think they would laugh it off or it might attract others to do the same.

cleaver• 14 years ago

AOL might have a case... don't know, IANAL. Doubtless they could tie him up in court. However, I don't imagine they would try to touch him. The kid has the makings of a modern folk-hero—it could only result in bad PR for AOL if they did go after him.

The response from the AOL spokesperson makes it seem like they are taking the incident in good humour:

"It was always our intention to facilitate entrepreneurialism in the Palo Alto office -- we just didn't expect it to work so well."

michael_fine• 14 years ago

" Simons said he was able to score $50,000 in seed funding from Ulu Ventures and Silicon Valley VC Paul Sherer. "I was aware" of Simons living at AOL, Clint Korver of Ulu Ventures told CNET. "Tenacity and commitment are key attributes of a great entrepreneur. Eric has these in spades as demonstrated by his willingness to do whatever it takes to get his company off the ground."

iamgilesbowkett2• 14 years ago

"don't use your employer's computer off-hours when working on your own projects"

California law protects individual side projects extremely well. I am not a lawyer, I could be wrong, but I believe these concerns are absolutely irrelevant in California. Relevant elsewhere, but not here.

gscott• 14 years ago

> He used AOL infrastructure to build his company

And when his website opens up it plays "You've Got Mail" which proves it.

rexreed2• 14 years ago

This is a red herring. If you use the business facilities in a hotel, then the hotel doesn't own the work that you produce as a result of using their computers, network, etc.

An employment contract usually stipulates that all work done while being paid by the employer is work for hire, unless otherwise stipulated. In this case, no such contract exists. Intellectual property is default owned by the creator unless explicitly transferred otherwise.

There's a claim to be made here on trespassing and possibly illegal use of resources, which can be recovered through small claims. But there's really very little case to be made that the IP created through the trespass and use of resources somehow transfer to AOL simply by reason of their ownership of the infrastructure.

mcmc• 14 years ago

Entrepreneurship isn't about having a magical nose for value, and unerringly finding chests of gold at every turn.

Rather, it's about the optimistic spirit, the emotional strength, and ultimately the endurance to keep going even when it's so hard you don't want to get up out of bed.

If you figure this part of entrepreneurship out, as Eric has, you can probably build something amazing.

ojbyrne• 14 years ago

I think you need to lay off the entrepreneurship porn.

Entrepreneurship is about building a business, and people have demonstrated they can do that even if they're a pessimist, lack emotional strength, or have any kind of endurance.

crosh• 14 years ago

The conditions for building a sustainable business are not always perfect. Most businesses are given up on too quickly. In fact, many successful businesses have or were within hours of running out of cash before they became successful, i.e. Pandora, early Pinterest, RealNetworks. It is only due to the few who have the courage, naivety, and tenacity to pull through that many of these companies still exist.

mbreese11• 14 years ago

I want to know why we are celebrating blatant unethical behavior as entrepreneurial spirit. Moxie is one thing, this is just dumb and reckless.

ktizo9• 14 years ago

Reckless maybe, but obviously not dumb, given the outcome.

And perhaps he was just taking tips from RMS, who squatted his MIT office for years after officially quitting to work on GNU.

daleharvey• 14 years ago

What ethical boundary did he cross?

He broke a rule, probably a few laws, but no person was harmed or in any way negatively affected, it is certainly not 'blatantly unethical'

wpietri2• 14 years ago

Cost to AOL was approximately nothing. AOL will spend more on worker time reading and joking about this article than they did on the cereal and ramen he ate. It's a rounding error.

The benefit to AOL is that they got a ton of good press for supporting young hackers. This is the first I've heard of the Imagine K 12 incubator, and I'm glad somebody's tackling this. AOL was smart to laugh it off in the press; this is the first positive thought I've had about them this decade.

ajscherer• 14 years ago

No definition of entrepreneur that I've been able to find says that the business needs to be sustainable or provide value to customers. So I would answer that the definition has never changed from A to B, because it's never been A.

The definitions I've looked at do tend to say the entrepreneur takes on financial risk. He may not have done that.

Drbble4• 14 years ago

Didn't we just have a story about a successful lesson plan startup that had a $700k grossing participant? This new competitor seems to be lagging.

nicholassmith• 14 years ago

Got to say the response from AOL was pure class. They could have been really annoyed at the kid for sponging off their employee services, but no, 'we just didn't expect it to work so well'. Nicely done from AOL there.

Sure, the kid contravened plenty of rules and laws, but the level of focus to do 18ish hour days and maintain a lifestyle like that to achieve the goals? You don't get that everyday.

And lets be honest, he's not the first guy in the Valley to treat the rules with a loose interpretation.

joelhaasnoot• 14 years ago

Bending the truth gets you far - I spoke to a trainfan once who told everyone he was a train/locomotive driver/engineer and used that to travel all throughout Europe in traincabs

jarek2• 14 years ago

Also, it sounds a lot better than "lying."

zandorg• 14 years ago

See film 'Secret of My Success' with Michael J. Fox for similiar plot. Great film.

EREFUNDO• 14 years ago

I think "don't die" refer mostly to his ambition and startup....epic!

libraryatnight• 14 years ago

Very cool story :) I understand the ethics arguments, but I can't find the heart to support them. I admire Eric's resourcefulness and outright balls ;)

a3d6g2f72• 14 years ago

Maybe he should have brought the security guard on as a co-founder?

a3d6g2f72• 14 years ago

Simons' supervisor commented that he was a model employee for AOL's Palo Alto Office.

"Eric was always on time, never late for work."

readme• 14 years ago

"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. "

jroseattle2• 14 years ago

This kid's drive and ambition is impressive, but using that as an excuse to ignore honesty? Sounds like he should be working on wall street, instead.

Kudos to David Tempkin for his response -- spot on. He recognized the situation for what it was, and responded most appropriately.

But here's the thing -- suppose he was instead sponging off a smaller, non-corporate, recently-funded, bootstrapped operation. Would everyone be calling him a go-getter? I'm guessing not, as the "theft" conversation would likely take a different tone.

neilkelty• 14 years ago

Where did he work during the day as to not be noticed by hundreds of employees?

DigitalSea• 14 years ago

I'm sure once AOL eventually goes out of business, they can crash on his couch and use his shower. Fair enough he was using their facilities to work on his own projects and try and raise capital, but I admire his audacity. This is probably one of the most impressive things I've heard and read about in a long time.

myspoonnotyours• 14 years ago

Similar to that Duke U. student who lived in a van on campus. Of course he was paying for tuition.

Also reminds me of Half Baked and the guy on the couch.

rubynerd• 14 years ago

Discarding the primary point of this article (squatting at AOL), today is my last day of college (16-18 age bracket in the UK), and you can tell that every single lesson is the same as it was five years ago, bar electronics because it's a new exam board and the teacher is only just finding his feet.

Computing, we still use VB6 for coursework, Chemistry, everything is photocopied with ye olde dates on

Props to him for attempting to introduce variety into lesson plans, thankfully, today is the last day of copying out photocopy masters from a whiteboard onto paper

46Bit• 14 years ago

Off-topic, but you should think about going to http://youngrewiredstate.org this summer. It's a week-long open data hack that ends with 1-2 days of camping at Bletchley Park. I've been to it two years running now and it's done wonders.

lollancf37• 14 years ago

His motivation and will to make his project exist is out of the ordinary and I respect that.

However his behaviour is just shameful. I guess the end, justify the means ...

Still I don't like it, one bit.

charlieok• 14 years ago

So today I found myself reading Robert Burns' poem, “To a Mouse” (the origin of the famous phrase, “The best laid plans of mice and men”).

I think it's almost possible to read this poem in the voice of AOL talking to Eric Simons.

http://www.worldburnsclub.com/poems/translations/554.htm

inspiredworlds• 14 years ago

love this guys hustle

Meet the tireless entrepreneur who squatted at AOL

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