Why diets backfire: A year after weight loss, the desire to eat grows (2018)

https://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-weight-loss-hunger-20180202-story.html

by paulpauper • 2 years ago

109 173 2 years ago

All hail our Lord and Saviour, the GLP-1 Agonist drug.

I’ve lost the weight I put on 20 years ago many, many times, and spent my every waking moment hungry. Now, I take a pill every morning, and eat like a regular human.

kls0e• 2 years ago

i lol‘d

vundercind2• 2 years ago

It’s that or “fix our culture”.

Thank god these drugs came along, really, because we were never gonna accomplish that.

_cenw3• 2 years ago

What's the cultural fix for having broken satiety signaling?

petesergeant11• 2 years ago

The article says that once you’ve been fat once, you experience hunger more strongly for years afterwards, even if you lose weight. What exactly are you proposing we fix here?

glp1guide3• 2 years ago

This is awesome -- I've heard it described as "food noise", and luckily I've never had to struggle with it, but hearing the anecdata is super amazing. They don't work for every single person, but there's no way GLP1s won't legitimately change the world. They already are.

How did you get into GLP1 RAs and where did you initially search for information about them? Was it a recommendation from your doctor?

petesergeant11• 2 years ago

Ha, I was going to start an info site just like yours, did the keyword research and registered some domain names, but other projects took precedence.

Like almost everyone else, I heard about them through the media, and then booked in to see an endocrinologist. Various subreddits have been great, with a particular shout out to the Mounjaro one

petesergeant11• 2 years ago

Oh, also, if you want to experience food noise, spend a day eating only fibre. It’s the kind of hungry where your tummy isn’t rumbling. Alternatively, nicotine withdrawal is a fine substitute experience.

darkteflon• 2 years ago

Is this Rybelsus, do you mind if I ask?

petesergeant11• 2 years ago

Yes, although I did the initial loss with Mounjaro

abhaynayar• 2 years ago

One of the best ways to maintain I've experienced is to just keep track of your weight every single day. And trying to do it while knowing daily fluctuations don't matter much, but that if over time you've gained a few kgs, you need to figure out what happened wrong and how to fix it.

I had a daily habit metric to "eat well" but that was much more complex and mentally taxing, so I simplified it to "track your weight" which is just a minute of concrete simple investment every morning. Of course, weight isn't the only thing that matters, but if mostly you're eating healthy and quantity is the only issue then it's a useful metric to track.

petesergeant11• 2 years ago

I can tell you how heavy I was on almost every day since 2009. Hasn’t helped.

s1artibartfast• 2 years ago

I think it was proposed as a strategy to keep the weight off, not loose it.

bruce5113• 2 years ago

I suspect one strategy won't work for everyone, but it certainly works for me as a motivator. Or to put it another way, when I weigh regularly my weight trends down, when I don't it trends up.

Of course it goes without saying that standing on the scale has no direct impact on my weight. What I eat, and how much of it I eat, is the crucial factor. (I exercise 4 days a week as part of my regular schedule.)

When it comes to "what" it will vary for everyone. For me it's limiting sugar (not eliminating, just being aware, and keeping that down when I can) and also limiting carbs like bread, pasta, rice, potatoes. Again I've not gone for elimination, but just greatly reduced that good group.

I eat very little restaurant good, and practically zero fast food, so that likely also plays a part.

The important thing is to change slowly to something thats a new norm that's sustainable in the long run. It's not a diet in the sense that im not going hungry. It's just replacing one food with another so that I get more of grid and less of that.

I love bread, potatoes, and chocolate. So I get those every few days. Just perhaps in more moderation than before, and not with every meal.

I'm losing about a pound every 2 weeks which seems nicely balanced.

seer3• 2 years ago

I never understood why “weight” is such a strong proxy to “fitness” in the popular mind.

I usually don’t care how much I weigh, as long as I look fit. Building muscle increases your weight, but makes you look better and be healthier. Also muscle burns more calories to maintain, so you can eat more.

Some of my friends who are fitness buffs track weight too but seek “gainz” not weight lossesss…

I guess BMI is slightly better but not that great. I hope people come up with a better stat that encourages us to be “healthier” instead of lighter.

rpmisms3• 2 years ago

Bodyfat percentage is usually a good indicator, but an even better one is what percentage of your bodyweight you can deadlift. A healthy adult should be able to deadlift their bodyweight. A fit adult: 1.5x. 2x is the line for really being strong (or thin and strong!)

Aurornis3• 2 years ago

I usually don’t care how much I weigh, as long as I look fit.

You can’t visually spot a couple pounds difference when it’s spread over your entire body, but the scale will reveal it. Visual alone is a very lagging indicator.

Furthermore, visual checks are prone to drift over long periods of time. Weight (fat) gain doesn’t happen suddenly, so relying on visual indicators is prone to error.

It’s not hard to see why people use the scale. It’s a precise device with a short feedback loop and the numbers don’t lie. People aren’t dumb, if they gain muscle they will update their target weight.

hombre_fatal5• 2 years ago

Come on. It’s because most people are visibly fat, not looking in the mirror wondering where the pounds are coming from.

zhdc12• 2 years ago

I usually don’t care how much I weigh, as long as I look fit. Building muscle increases your weight, but makes you look better and be healthier. Also muscle burns more calories to maintain, so you can eat more.

I completely agree, but the ratio of overweight/obese to "I have a slightly high BMI because I lift 4x a week" has to be somewhere in the range of 100-1.

safety1st2• 2 years ago

Because in a country like the US where half the population is obese, the biggest health marker they need to improve is body fat percentage, and there's no easy way to measure that accurately and directly, the most convenient proxy is weight.

I enjoy strength training and would recommend it to anyone, I've put on roughly 25 lbs of muscle in the last ~18 months. Realistically however it's very easy to put on fat as well when you're going for gains. If you're a typical American fatty who's sitting at 40% body fat you're probably out of shape, you probably don't know how to lift with good form, you don't know what a good routine looks like, you're probably prone to injury if you push it too fast, the thing to focus on today is probably to clean up the worst offenders in your dietary habits and lose a few pounds. Weight lifting in my opinion would be #2 after that for immense and varied benefits but it's a slower burn.

Fluorescence4• 2 years ago

I usually don’t care how much I weigh, as long as I look fit.

Who are you going to believe, the scale or your lying eyes?

It's kind of crazy how much weight you can gain without noticing it in the mirror. It's a combination of frog-boiling and the very weird psychology of self-perception. Modern stretch fabrics add to this curse lol. Back in the day your very non-stretchy denim would raise an alarm bell.

If you are trying to do something, lose fat, gain muscle, the scale is a simple measuring tool for what the eyes can't see.

aurareturn4• 2 years ago

I don't know if my experience is worth anything here.

But I lost a ton of weight doing cardio and going on a vegan diet. It was hard to put the weight off for long though. I also lost a lot of muscles and became "skinny fat". At some point, I hit a plateau and just couldn’t lose more fat despite a 500-1000 daily calorie deficit. It was unsustainable and probably unhealthy.

I did some research and switched to weight lifting and eating 20-30% of my calories in protein. Also, I increased my calorie intake to break even. The weight is staying off and I feel healthier and stronger.

Edit: I did go off my vegan diet when I switched my exercise strategy from cardio to weight lifting. I don’t have any diet restrictions. But I generally eat healthy food because the high protein diet generally makes me only eat whole foods such as chicken, vegetables, grains.

RossBencina3• 2 years ago

Similar. Current evidence-based recommendation for daily protein intake is 1.6g protein per kg of target body weight. Not that any of that will solve the issue raised in the article: persistent up-regulated hunger signal sensitivity and down-regulated satiety signal sensitivity.

latency-guy2• 2 years ago

Current evidence-based recommendation for daily protein intake is 1.6g protein per kg of target body weight

That measure is for when you are specifically looking to build muscle I believe, which might be a bit orthogonal to direction you want to go (if for weight loss).

It is also, IMO, a lot of protein to consume a day. I personally have never done that level of protein intake, ever, but I know a few who have, its an insane (to me) amount of protein powder, chicken, and broccoli (or alternatives) you have to consume, every day. If the goal was sustainability, it's definitely not possible for average people.

aurareturn4• 2 years ago

I eat around 2g of protein per kg of weight. I lift weights 3x per week.

My fat % is slowly but gradually decreasing.

joegahona2• 2 years ago

Did you stay vegan after switching? I.e., are you getting your protein calories via a vegan diet?

spondylosaurus2• 2 years ago

Also curious about this. I don't eat meat (but I do eat dairy when my stomach lets me) and it's very difficult for me to get enough protein... mostly because the protein-rich meat-free options mess me up in high quantities. But there's gotta be some good option out there that I'm missing!

aurareturn4• 2 years ago

No, I went off a vegan diet. Switched to eating a lot of egg whites, chicken and some fish. Occasionally red meat. Also drinking lactose free milk with my coffee and eating cheese sometimes.

It’s hard to get enough protein from a vegan diet and without enough protein, it’s harder to decrease fat %.

Also, I have a problem digesting beans so one of the main source of vegan protein is not practical for me.

I’m on a break even calorie diet right now and keeping the weight off. I’m also still breaking personal records at the gym despite maintaining the same weight which suggests my body is still getting lower in fat %.

RossBencina3• 2 years ago

[2018]

ggm• 2 years ago

Doing it solo may be harder. I suspect there's a mutual CBT effect of buddying up to maintain a healthy diet stance. Certainly my partner and I manage "maybe not another serving" policing better between us than on our own.

Which doesn't alter that the underlying satiety signals aren't good, it's just that a conscious override option has some reinforcement.

quickthrower22• 2 years ago

I found my best diet is to do weights at the gym, stop looking at the scales and eat real food every day (but junk is OK too).

Have I lost weight? No idea. Don’t care. Yoyoing and being hungry all the time isn’t worth it. I have belly fat though! As I probably should (?)

mark_l_watson• 2 years ago

I was able to keep weight off long term with the Dr. Fuhrman diet - really unpleasant diet because you stay away from processed foods, which takes extra shopping and cooking efforts. The positive side was that it made me feel much younger, more energy, better sleep, all around good except for the effort.

bruce5113• 2 years ago

I'm not familiar with the diet but I think this is an excellent highlight of why weight loss is not a one-method-suits-all approach.

Personally I dislike processed foods, and I love cooking from scratch. It's the time my brain is switched off and I'm literally creating something delicious. I cook for 5 adults, 4 times a week, and it takes about 30 mins to an hour.

I'm not saying you should like it, we're all different, but it's handy I enjoy it because it definitely helps with weight management.

BenFranklin1002• 2 years ago

I’ve never been significantly overweight fortunately, but over the pandemic I got about 20 lbs too pudgy, which proved frustratingly hard to lose. What finally worked was combining the Apple Watch (Fitbit is fine too) and a calorie counting app that track calories. The app (Yazio, there are others) took into account caloric expenditures beyond basic metabolic needs. That is, if one walks a mile as tracked by the Apple Watch, that’s an extra ~ 100 calories to eat.

Armed with these tools, I set a modest goal of 3-4lbs fat loss per month in Yazio. It worked. An unexpected positive outcome from this experience, is that I developed a much better intuitive sense of the caloric and nutritional value of foods and what activity levels I needed to maintain to stay at my desired weight. I recommend to give this approach a try.

Edit to add: These apps make an educated guess as to one’s basic metabolic daily expenditure. For reasons that aren’t clear, this estimate can vary as much as ~25% between persons. Therefore you may have to tweak the daily calorie goal. Second, weigh yourself every day. The weight loss goal of ~ 1lb/week is less than the daily variance in body weight due to hydration levels and so forth, so you will need to use a three or four day rolling average to keep track of your progress.

leidenfrost• 2 years ago

To me, what worked best is, yes, tracking calories, but also finding the foods that manager the hunger in the best way possible while also being as low calorie as possible.

Proteins and vegetables for the main servings, and green apples, oranges or tangerines for when I crave something sweet afterwards.

Beware of juices. Some of them have as mush sugar as a coke.

mbowcut2• 2 years ago

I’m similar. Never been very over weight but I’ve put on 20ish lbs in the last few years. My wife and I started tracking calories and exercising a month ago and it has been so beneficial. I lost about ten lbs, but even better than losing the weight has been building a better intuition of what foods are calorie rich, higher in protein, etc.

overvale• 2 years ago

Same. The best part is the education. I now am certain what my portion sizes should be, how much of each meal should be protein, how many calories are likely in the food I'm ordering at the lunch counter, etc. That information, and keeping it in mind the same way you might keep your budget in mind has made a big difference.

coffeebeqn• 2 years ago

I quickly got sick of calorie counting. It got me thinking about food way too much (while hungry) when I do better not thinking about it. What I needed was very simply to be ok with the feeling of hunger. Whenever I felt hungry I would automatically head to the kitchen to look for something to snack on.

Now I generally eat pretty fixed calorie meals - 100-200 for breakfast for example and when I get hunger in between I just remind myself that I’m not on the verge of dying in the wilderness and that I can wait an hour for lunch. I also replaced any snacks and beers in the house with dried fruit, nuts, seltzer water because I know I’m lazy and will pick the easiest thing

Angostura2• 2 years ago

This sort of worked for me too. Thinking of hunger as something to aim for - remaining hungry for an hour or to as an achievement was useful. The difficulty I had was avoiding satiating myself subsequently

Fire-Dragon-DoL7• 2 years ago

There is no way that 1 mile is 100 calories, I would be as light as a piece of paper by now

BenFranklin1002• 2 years ago

For an 180 lb person, walking 1 mile burns approximately 100 calories. This is a common and proven metric.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/calories-burned-walking-a-mil...

professorTuring2• 2 years ago

What worked for me: - quit sugar - quit processed foods - avoid fried food - little fat (even the healthy ones) - no nuts/seeds - lifting weights - little cardio

I have completely changed my life in one year.

It has been a very tough path, mostly socially, going out and not having a beer, burger… social pressure… but when you believe in eating healthy everything goes smooth. Also measure the results, once you get 12-15% of body fat, you may be gaining muscle weight.

The goal should be changing your lifestyle to one that is healthy and sustainable.

beacon2943• 2 years ago

That sounds great, but I haven't found it to be sustainable. I also avoid fried foods, sugar, processed foods. I only eat meat twice a week. I count every gram of saturated fat I eat, and keep it under 10 grams per day. I eat nuts every day, for breakfast and/or afternoon snack -- I find the unsaturated fats and proteins prevent hunger. I also drink protein shakes (1-2 per day).

nilsbunger• 2 years ago

Has it helped you lose weight or keep it off?

professorTuring2• 2 years ago

Have you thought why isn’t sustainable for you?

The main problem I faced was giving in “just this time”. Fat and sugar are addictive and when you fall, it makes it easier to fall again.

About healthy food, I had overweight and I mostly ate “healthy food”. I needed to go to a nutritionist and ask him why.

This is what O was eating a year and a half ago:

Breakfast: two bread slices with avocado.

Meal: mostly salads with lettuce, tomato, tuna, avocado, carrots, salt, vinegar and extra virgin olive oil. (I really wanted to lose weight).

Dinner: chicken, sushi, eggs… normally I would add a handful of seeds/nuts.

This is what my nutriotionist told me: you have been eating quite healthy, the problem are the fats: too many healthy fats (extra virgin oil, avocado, nuts… nuts have a lot of fats).

Only add protein shakes when you are trying to gain muscle and you are not able to add normal proteins. I started on protein shakes once I was slim and not able to eat that much food to gain muscle.

A year later I am fully conscious of what I eat. I can have eventually a burger, but I am fully aware that it is really unhealthy.

My proteins today are mainly chicken and salmon, carbs: quinoa, rice, lentils… and almost no fat (I’m trying to get my fat % to 12… it’s quite difficult)

Also read all packaged ingredients you will find nasty surprises in form of fats and sugar in diet / “high protein” meals.

Also no juices!

jyunwai• 2 years ago

This tracks with food writer Michael Pollan's advice for eating a healthy diet. In his view, healthy eating for most people means sticking to a limited set of rules and habits, without overcomplicating the affair. The main rules are [1]:

"1. Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.

2. Eating healthy is common sense. Don’t make it complicated.

3. Avoid processed foods and ingredients you don’t recognize.

4. Use meat for flavor, not the main course.

5. Pay more, eat less."

While diet can be a contentious issue (with debates on meal timing, how many meals per day to eat, how much fat versus protein versus carbohydrates to eat per day, etc.), I've gotten a lot of mileage out of Pollan's central message that you eating healthily largely means limiting portion sizes and choosing fresh food over processed meals.

[1] https://tylerdevries.com/book-summaries/food-rules/

hackerfooze• 2 years ago

What worked for me: plenty of sugar and starch, cut out all fat, low salt. 45 and feeling great, haven’t struggled with weight in nearly a decade.

rpearl• 2 years ago

I'm having a hard time imagining eating like this. Can you describe a meal you might eat?

anthomtb2• 2 years ago

Any time an article like this comes up, all I have to say (as a one time fat boy) is:

How bad do you want it?

Do you want six pack abs? Do you want cake? Pick one, unless you are REALLY lucky. And if you clicked that link, you probably aren't. You could also risk whatever a Tijuana pharmacy has on offer but that's another can of worms.

It's harsh, but if you want a certain body, you won't be able to consume whatever you want. Alternately, you can consume whatever you want and accept the body you have. No judgement here, so long as you are happy with yourself.

chii• 2 years ago

It's harsh, but if you want a certain body, you won't be able to consume whatever you want.

and that's why the pharmaceutical companies are forever looking for a drug which makes you lose weight, but also allows you to eat anything (while remaining safe and side-effect free).

adrian_b2• 2 years ago

while remaining safe and side-effect free

Unfortunately it is not clear whether this goal is more realistic than searching for the philosopher's stone or for the elixir of life.

adrian_b2• 2 years ago

What you say is only partially true.

One can still consume whatever is desired, but in much smaller quantities than desired.

For instance, I have been obese for many years. Then I have succeeded to lose (after several failed attempts) more than one third of my initial body weight.

After that, I have changed completely my eating habits, otherwise I would have reverted immediately to my old weight. Now I have been controlling my weight accurately for more than a decade.

I am still eating cakes, but only cakes that I cook myself from known ingredients, and only twice per week (Sunday and Wednesday) and in a quantity that keeps the daily intake of sugar for those days no greater than 40 to 50 grams.

With these exceptions, I do not eat any kind of food with added sugar, so now if I happen to taste some of the industrially-produced sweet food that I liked before, it feels much too sweet, while some vegetables with low sugar content, like onions or red bell peppers, feel quite sweet.

However many months have been needed until overcoming the addiction to sugar.

anthomtb2• 2 years ago

I had a similar weight loss journey and agree with much that you are saying. Especially the sweetness of vegetables. I remember making a Bolognese with carrots and onions ages ago, not long after kicking sugar, and finding it too sweet for my palate.

jupp0r• 2 years ago

What works for me: counting calories. I use the MacroFactor iOS app. Set a modest deficit goal and stick to it on average. It's ok to splurge sometimes.

hombre_fatal5• 2 years ago

Cronometer.com is my go-to since it's free and it breaks down micronutrients into little progress bars. I also like that it's a website as well as a phone app so I can enter/modify my foods from the laptop.

sn97• 2 years ago

Macrofactor has that as well, but it also calculates your TDEE based on your weight and intake and tells you how to adjust to accomplish your goals.

Aurornis3• 2 years ago

This is old research (2018) that has been blown completely out of proportion by news media. It's one of several small studies that gets circulated from time to time as if it disproves that weight loss is possible or something, but it doesn't.

Look at the actual study details:

Thirty-five (22 females) adults with severe obesity (body mass index: 42.5 ± 5.0 kg/m2) underwent a 2-yr WL program focusing on diet and exercise.

They only looked at 22 women with severe obesity on a rapid and aggressive weight loss program. Drawing conclusions from this tiny group and their abnormally aggressive program isn’t relevant to the average person trying to regulate their weight or steadily move toward a healthier weight target over many years.

MattGaiser• 2 years ago

Is there any research on long term weight loss that argues a meaningful amount of weight loss is reasonably possible?

https://www.vox.com/2016/5/10/11649210/biggest-loser-weight-...

Vox has an article on it supposedly working, but the results are not what anyone who is overweight would call successful.

The results at year eight are heartening. Eight years later and 50.3 percent of the intensive lifestyle intervention group and 35.7 percent of the usual care group were maintaining losses of ≥5 percent, while 26.9 percent of the intensive group and 17.2 percent of the usual care group were maintaining losses of ≥10 percent.

In layman’s terms, half lost nothing. Half of the losers lost so little that they wouldn’t notice. 1/4 lost 10%. Basically nobody who was obese reached a normal weight.

lazyasciiart4• 2 years ago

You don’t have to reach a normal weight to make a significant difference to your health and risk of death. Maintaining a 10% weight loss is absolutely noticeable in health measures.

https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/moderate-weight-loss-improve...

petesergeant11• 2 years ago

Could you recommend some new research that shows alternative findings that you think is better?

eps• 2 years ago

Even if the GP can't do that, it doesn't negate the fact that this research is for an extreme edge case and clearly doesn't extrapolate as the title implies.

sn97• 2 years ago

Studies are constrained by all kinds of factors.

It's more useful to look at populations that reliably manipulate their body composition as a learnable, teachable skill like athletes in weight classes and bodybuilders.

The fundamentals have been known and practiced for decades at this point.

n8henrie4• 2 years ago

To my knowledge this mirrors the largest meta-analysis I'm aware of (JAMA? Probably way back in 2008 or so though, man I'm getting old) which showed that virtually all diets have a return to baseline weight by 2 years. Will see if I can find the citation. Do you have a recommended counter-example?

optymizer• 2 years ago

I'd like to share my experience. I've lost 50lbs twice in the past decade and I'm currently losing them again. Hopefully the third time is a charm.

What's different now is that I've done a lot of self-reflection. I now realize I have an eating disorder driven by a dopamine response to tasty foods, but unlike other people, my inner thoughts are similar to addicts, I presume, where my brain is deciding to binge the food that triggered that reward until I get stomach pains, which then nullifies the dopamine reward, so only then I stop eating. I've also learned the signal I get when I've had enough to eat and learned to not ignore it.

I've also realized that I stress eat, and particularly when I'm feeling down, probably to try to get temporary feelings of happiness as self-medication.

Losing weight is fairly straightforward once you get the hang of it, but keeping it off is less so. That's the most difficult aspect to manage about my life: to try to avoid excessive stress and general periods of unhappiness, so that I don't start using food as a source of dopamine, but since a lot of stressors are external, I feel like they're outside of my control, so my general strategy as of late has been to replace the source of dopamine to not be food related.

For example, exercising not only helps with losing weight, but it also curbs my appetite so I can fast during lunch without exercising much will power. More vigorous exercise induces runner's high, so it benefits both the efforts of losing the weight and the attempt to switch sources of feeling good.

Lastly getting satisfaction from shipping code is a productive replacement for the satisfaction I get from eating foods. That one is more tough to implement because eating provides immediate gratification, while shipping projects is a long endeavor usually. To counter that, I set bite-sized (ha) coding/learning goals for myself that I can complete fairly fast. That keeps my mood up for a bit.

Hopefully my experience will encourage others to reflect on their own reasons for gaining weight and try to address the root cause, not just the side-effect of increased weight.

las_balas_tres• 2 years ago

My relationship with food seems to mirror yours. You have some good advice on how to deal with it.

verticalscaler7• 2 years ago

exercising not only helps with losing weight

Running and exercising are not efficient ways to lose weight despite what the fitness and wellness industries would have you believe. And ironically the more overweight you are the less efficient it is. Great way to fuck up your joints or waste countless hours sifting through bro science and researching equipment you don't need.

It is great for keeping the weight off and enjoying life once you hit a certain point but should not be a chore as will power is finite and precious and at first you're spending it all on eating clean and walking and that is guaranteed to be enough over a long enough period.

Push too hard and you'll stall. just be patient and extremely consistent instead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hacker's_Diet

If you can go for a walk for 1-2 hours a day, just simply walk your way out of the problem. And if you "can't afford" to walk for 1 hour every day your life is already in shambles and you're not in a position to make other changes before you sort this out.

Eat clean. Walk. Be consistent. Be patient as it will take more than a year, the time delayed reward is the very crux of the matter. And don't stress, laugh more!

Laughter is the best medicine buddy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5AixBKy7b4

Highly recommend watching Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia for Macs trajectory. The actor went from skinny to obese and back for a joke.

Very best of luck.

gchamonlive2• 2 years ago

I find that exercising in water basically nullifies all those joint stresses you mention. Swim or water gymnastics. The main issue with swimming that comes to mind is with shoulders because it uses a lot of rotations.

Eat clean. Walk. Be consistent.

That is basically it, wellness must be approached on many different angles. I'd also add sleep better, drink the required amount of water, refrain from using screens past a couple of hours before going to bed. But also, if anyone is clinically overweight, in which case is it a medical issue, to rely on professionals for help. Psychologist/psychiatrist to manage anxiety, doctors to help identify and treat hormonal related imbalances, instructors to help you execute physical activities without injuring yourself, a down to earth nutritionist (not some random influencer on the web with over 20k followers) to help you eat consistently.

I do realise that it is a lot to take in at once, but the thing is you can't do it at once. Start at some place, I'd recommend talking to a psychologist to come up with a plan that is tailored to your specific needs and habits. And then lean on the routine consistently and try to find comfort in the fact that you are in the process of getting better, effectively changing your relationship with everything you interact that gives you that dopamine boost.

lazyasciiart4• 2 years ago

A 1 hour walk is exercise, especially for someone too heavy to safely run.

jdkoeck2• 2 years ago

For other readers: disregard the FUD above regarding running and exercising. Exercising generally curbs hunger, boosts mood and helps solidify adherence to good eating habits. It won't fuck up your joints if you very gradually increase your total exercising volume. For instance, start alternatively walking and running for half an hour three times a week (never getting winded in the process, stop running and start walking every time you start breathing hard), and from there add ten minutes of exercise per week. You'll do fine.

Terretta2• 2 years ago

if you "can't afford" to walk for 1 hour every day your life is already in shambles

This “walk an hour a day” advice risks being in the “check your privilege” category. Also risks ensuring most people simply can't or won't take that advice.

For both health and weight, metabolism and heart matter. And there are reasonably effective approaches for those besides the standard jogging / running / biking / walking endurance tips.

One way I like, annoying because it's hard, while paradoxically easier as it requires willpower instead of time, is high intensity interval training or Tabata intervals.*

Both metabolism and heart health can be revved up with high intensity interval training (“HIIT”) in as little as 8 minutes 3 times a week (about 4 mins spent in anaerobic or about 4 periods of 30 seconds in VO2 Max range), ideally coupled with a few ‘repetitions’ of lifting weights.

After about six weeks of sufficient intensity, your body seems to decide you are going to keep demanding things from it. Heart feels less taxed, breaking out in sweat takes longer, you stop being out of breath as quickly, and weight starts to shed. After you maintain this a couple quarters, your body finds a new fitness equilibrium and even if you stop exercising, it stays ready for demand for another six months to a year.

There are other approaches as well besides this one. HIIT isn't for everyone, some people feel nausea at the intensity and are unable to make themselves exert enough to push the heart rate where it needs to be.

So-called “Blue Zone” longevity studies have shown one factor in common across several zones is steep hills and walking. Hill climbing (or stairs) several times a day on a daily basis won't necessarily push to VO2 Max but does seem to encourage similar system adaptations with similar long term health benefits.

It's a lot easier to spend 10 mins three times a week than an hour every day, so accessible it's almost embarrassing to not do it.

* WARNING: If you're not already fit, do not try this without talking to your doctor. And fit or not, don't do HIIT without a real time heart monitor with chest strap, about ~$30 for a Bluetooth ANT+ strap like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3A1EODO9M3B1/ ...

littlecosmic• 2 years ago

I find if I am running frequently, the alternative source of feel-good chemicals makes bad food less attractive. I find this a little surprising as I would have thought I would crave bad food more.

The only time I have been a normal weight has been when I am running and the exercise / less-craving combo worked well … while I kept the habit.

nlitened• 2 years ago

my inner thoughts are similar to addicts

This has been my realization as well. I've never experienced quitting smoking or drugs, so can't compare, but sugar withdrawals hit me HARD — it really made me reflect a lot.

From what I've read, recovering heroin addicts never really "recover", they just consciously don't consume heroin. I now see overeating the same way, there's no "cure", there's lifelong maintenance.

For me personally, eventually, carnivore diet has been a revelation and the only routine I can keep up without expending constant mental effort. It's impossible to overeat, and you feel amazing. As a result, you feel like shit on cheat days, so even though I still get to indulge in carbs from time to time, I don't feel the urge to continue eating them.

saiya-jin• 2 years ago

Seems to the only thing you need to change is to start doing some real sports(TM) instead of stuff you do just to lose weight. I mean sports that you will feel very bad for skipping, and stuff you can actually engage in few times a week. I'd recommend climbing for example (that's a serious gateway to permanent improvement of lifestyle for everybody I know including me, but its not panacea so other stuff may work for ya). That's a great way and first step to completely change yourself.

That's the core of most weight loss - if you want permanent results, you need to do permanent change in your habits, no way to hack around this simple fact of life (if you don't count pussies like Musk lacking any serious impulse control who eat copious amount of diabetes medications because... that really seems like a great idea along term, just ask any senior doctor in private).

Fire-Dragon-DoL7• 2 years ago

Unfortunately I have to disagree. I started going to the gym 6 times per week in august 2023, my muscles are in way better shape than before, my heart is great, but the biggest weight loss was still at the beginning from diet.

It's a pain. I religiously go and alternate 3 HIIT sessions (shadow boxing/stationary bike) of 30 minutes, with strength training of 60 minutes (push, pull, legs). The very rare times I skip have been when my legs are overly tired (boxing, bike, legs + 40 minutes walking 5 days per week it's a lot for muscles). And yet, I'm struggling to lose the remaining weight. My hunger has increased with all the muscles, I am able not to gain weight only because I eat healthy, but the amount I eat increases. I can power through with will and a lot of water, but it's really hard.

I thought I would solve with sport but I didn't. I'm in good shape, but I have more weight to lose, it's annoying.

derelicta• 2 years ago

A good diet should be 60% of the efforts you put into your weight loss. the other 40% should be put into sport. My source? My dietetician.

makeitdouble3• 2 years ago

Great points.

to try to avoid excessive stress and general periods of unhappiness

This of course easier said than done, but that has been my experience as well.

Trying to lose fat, even in small amounts, was just a lost cause when everything else in my daily life is just stress upon stress, no time to cook, and the body always in emergency mode. And it made me really pissed at the "just meditate" or "just eat less and exercise more" crowd...it must work for some, but that's no magical advice.

Losing a measly 5% of fat only happened after rethinking my life, changing job, and basically our daily life as a whole family.

Fire-Dragon-DoL7• 2 years ago

What about lack of sleep? When I don't sleep enough, I go on a hunger frenzy and there is nothing I can do about it. It helps eating veggies, but I just keep eating

sn97• 2 years ago

Building a strength training habit in particular is useful in this context (and many others) because if you do start gaining weight again, you'll end up gaining muscular tissue which is more metabolically active and beneficial in many other ways.

Noumenon72• 2 years ago

The fact that gaining weight is a one-way door in this way makes it more important for young people than things like starting a 401k. It's so much easier to proactively improve your diet and exercise when you still have your natural thinness than after all your hormones want you to be larger. You know the fat monster is coming for you within ten years if you do not, and it will never really let you go.

tomhoward4• 2 years ago

To the extent that this phenomenon is true for a significant number of people, it aligns with a concept that I came across several years ago and have been living by ever since with good success: our decisions are driven mostly from our subconscious mind. When seen this way, there are good reasons why a person may be beholden to subconscious patterns that cause them to return to an above-average weight (and thus continue to produce hunger hormones even though they've eaten enough fuel for the body to function well): it can be dangerous to be in good shape - it can attract unwanted attention, attack, or expectations of capabilities that would make people see you as a threat. If a person has had some kind of trauma in the past relating to physical attack, gaining weight can be a way to become invisible, a non-threat, or better protected in the case of an attack. (FWIW this might explain cases where there are severe side-effects after taking drugs like Ozempic: the drug may be effective at blocking the hunger hormones of whatever it does, but if the subconscious pattern is still congruent with maintaining the higher weight level, it will fight back in other ways. The subconscious mind always wins, in my experience.)

That said, another factor can just be issues with the microbiome and digestive absorption: there are several conditions that can mean that even though a person has consumed enough food, the nutritional content is not absorbed into the body, due to the presence or colonies of organisms (bacteria, parasites, fungus) that consume the nutrients first), and/or digestive inflammation conditions that mean the nutrients just aren't absorbed, but the fat from the food is still stored. So, more food is desired in order to try to gain sustenance, even though it seems enough has already been consumed (though, issues relating to digestion can also originate in the subconscious mind, as the research behind YC company Mindset Health demonstrates – https://www.mindsethealth.com/research-outcomes)

Health is hard.

Fluorescence4• 2 years ago

gaining weight can be a way to become invisible, a non-threat

I have become a little sceptical about this one because of how frequently I now see it claimed. While there might be real cases, it has become part of the therapy patter around weight-loss. It has become a "realisation" that rationalises someone's eating. It wasn't out of control, it wasn't about desire but an unconscious plan! It paints them as the noble victim and gives them a path to becoming more confident and slimmer.

It might even be a helpful mindset but I don't think it's the true mechanism which is more about attempting mood-repair and getting trapped in a food-addiction cycle. I have only ever seen how weight-gain becomes a pain that feeds the need for mood-repair rather than anyone reaching an unconscious victory of becoming invisible. I see the converse happen - when over-weight we feel painfully conspicuous, to an almost paranoid extent.

I think it becomes more convincing when women lose weight and get unwanted attention. When the conceived fix is to start eating, is that a rational reaction or the inner food-addict concocting excuses for an XXL pizza? I know when I break an addiction that inner-addict comes up with some hella bullshit.

Invisibility might be part of the spectrum of our mental state in weight-gain but I'm seeing this as a primary explanation spike way beyond what I believe is credible for an "unconscious plan" theory. Female obesity is greater than Male obesity but I expect that is due to the greater hormonal and child-birth challenges than this theory.

tomhoward4• 2 years ago

I just feel like this reply amounts to "there can't be a non-moralistic explanation for this, the moralistic explanation has to be the correct one".

I know that's an uncharitable oversimplification, but is there a way you can present your case without moralistic barbs like "the inner food-addict concocting excuses for an XXL pizza"?

And perhaps also include evidence rather than conjecture. My comment is consistent with the notion from evolutionary theory that our mind and body acts in accordance with what it determines is optimal for its survival, with the caveat that this can be complicated by factors like illness.

maxglute• 2 years ago

It's hard settling for lower caloric consumption to maintain lower body weight without large life style changes (duh). For the last 10 years I settled for eating what my body desired + lifing heavy and being 30 BMI at 15% bodyfat instead of previous 35%. Now aging is starting to catch up to me, blood pressure and heart burn increasing at same legally obese BMI. Currently skipping a couple meals, do a little fasting to get around to 25 BMI, but really just waiting of better diet drugs.

tetrisgm• 2 years ago

Used to be 300lbs. Going down to 200 took 18 months of eating 400 calories as many days as I could endure, and fill myself with water.

It's a thankless process. You fight years of muscle memory that tells you that you should treat yourself. Your brain is telling you about all your cravings and how hungry you are. You could be happy and full right now.

Worse, when you eat, it'll take 30 mins for you to feel full. It's all stacked against you.

Eventually you reach your goal. What now? Can you treat yourself? Loosen up? Chill? The moment you do it's a slippery slope.

It's hard to maintain lost weight because your entire body is a machine that you have trained to want this, and happiness and success looks like learning to let go.

The determination and drive to fix it is very difficult. I can understand how the craving gets appealing with time as things have settled.

smabie• 2 years ago

Fortunately now weight loss is basically solved due to ozempic and friends. Suspect a very large % of the population will be on these things indefinitely

perlgeek• 2 years ago

https://www.drugs.com/ozempic.html says

after 30 weeks, patients on Ozempic 0.5mg had lost 2.6 kg more than the placebo group, and patients on Ozempic 1mg lost 3.5 kg more than the placebo group.

That doesn't seem all that much weight loss to me, and it sounds far from being "basically solved".

Also, financing the drug seems to be an unsolved problem, except for the rich.

haunter• 2 years ago

eating 400 calories as many days as I could endure, and fill myself with water

Wow 400 is insane, good job! I've read that even the most extreme diets are usually 8-900 but 400 is really something else.

euroderf• 2 years ago

It must have been tricky to cover nutritional needs.

cbracketdash• 2 years ago

This is pure garbage. Making an effort to live a better life does not always follow a linear trend. There will be times when some make progress and then revert. But it's entirely about your mindset and intense self-reflection. If one lives in a completely pleasure-inducing life, sure, eating every food under the sun seems better. Yet, a self-reflective person would realize the reasoning behind losing the weight in the first place and why they should continue to stay in that state. It's a paradigm shift in the mind that must happen to maintain the loss in weight. Not the reverse.

Angostura2• 2 years ago

Dismisses a scientific study as “pure garbage” goes on post a commentary that fails to address any of its findings.

coldtea• 2 years ago

Yeah, basing the answer on what the "self-reflective person" does is begging the question at best and self-congratulatory at worst.

"Wanna lose weight? Just think and act like a person who loses weight"

hippich• 2 years ago

Somewhat tangent - I've lost about 20% on semaglutide. What I discovered, since I lost quite a lot of muscles as well, my lower back pain, related to crack in one vertebrae, got really bad. Once I reached my weight goal (just a hair above "normal" weight, coincidentally where I plateaued), I started weights lifting, starting at very low numbers, and keeping semaglutide at about half dosage. It seems to help so far.

Just something to consider for someone who need to lose a lot of weight and who has some underlying condition. It is still worth it in my opinion, just not as painless as one could think.

glp1guide3• 2 years ago

So a bit late but this is definitely a thing, but as far as I know, with any kind of rapid weight loss, the loss of muscle "lean mass" can be an issue.

Did your doctor warn you by any chance about the cracked vertebrae and the interplay with losing weight/muscle? I'm assuming not but that is definitely not the kind of pre-existing condition that someone might notice (though I'd hope a doctor could notice/forsee that)

Starting to pair lifting weights with the treatment seems to be what everyone is suggesting is figuring out now, much like you did[0]. Along with that, probably some remodeling of eating habits is required (instead of just eating less).

[0] https://glp1.guide/content/can-glp1-drugs-replace-diet-and-e...

borroka• 2 years ago

No one has a perfect, comprehensive explanation for why so many people today are overweight and obese. I believe, and I am far from being the only one, there is a cultural component and a caloric component. Real life is not black and white, and it is more accurate to see the evolution of norms and diet as a shift in statistical distributions.

The caloric component is easy to explain. Today, it is very easy to overeat without realizing it from the point of view of hunger. A Frappuccino, or whatever they call it, can provide 1k kcal, with no impact on satiety. On the contrary, because of the combination of sugar and fat, one may feel hungrier than before when swallowing that Mocacchino. For my grandparents, who were born before World War II, it was much more difficult to take in calories. Even if they wanted to, it was hard to overeat (for a historical overview on the availability of calories, you can read the book "Escape from Hunger and Premature Death" by Fogel).

The cultural component may seem more difficult to explain, but I think we can easily see how cultural relativism has strengthened in the last 3 or 4 decades. "Am I fat? Who cares, whatever. Haha." "Do I go out in pj for a "grocery run"? Who cares, as long as I'm comfortable." And this is particularly evident in the United States. If you go to some of the more European parts of South America, Europe or some Asian countries, you see far fewer obese and overweight people. They could certainly gain weight from the standpoint of caloric availability, but they tend not to. Because certain cultural and religious norms are still strong, and people who gain weight are frowned upon. Although I am concerned, from a cultural point of view, about the rotundity of the current pope. Times are changing.

Third, there is an issue of self-esteem. The man or woman of the current times see themselves as unworthy, as spectators of the real life lived by other people. When they go from pants size 32 to 34 to 38 to 42, they are not shocked, they are not horrified, they are not concerned for themselves, for their families, for their ancestors, but they take it with the word that best characterizes the philosophy of our times, "Whatever." Judging was bad, but is not judging better?

The atomization of the modern human being, lonely, mistreated at work, by partners--whether true or false, and also thinking that a bit of all of us are victims and victimizers--who realizes that he or she will be forgotten the first weekend after they die, leads to having little incentive to dress "properly," to be (reasonably) athletic, strong or fit, to be virtuous. One takes more pride in the new car one has bought than in the body one has built, living "on the rebound" the lives of celebrities who ignore our existence.

But all our lives are important, especially to ourselves, and this is the first realization we should have when we start losing weight, or when we decide it is time to put the fork down.

2dvisio• 2 years ago

Remind me of interesting research we did as a postdoc. Weight loss (and also maintenance) are generally better when clustering different strategies: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30096203/

spectrum1234• 2 years ago

Fasting should help keep the weight down. It takes your liver 2 weeks to adjust. This has helped me to stay less hungry.

Why diets backfire: A year after weight loss, the desire to eat grows (2018)

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