Bottled water has 'up to 100 times' more bits of plastic than previously feared

https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/10/water_nanoplastic_pollution/

by samizdis • 3 years ago

117 108 3 years ago

theregister.com

2024user• 3 years ago

Another source/discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38923811

andrewstuart• 3 years ago

It amazes me that people drink plastic bottled water.

I ensure my little boy uses only metal water bottles.

xyzzy123• 3 years ago

Interested to see if the findings are applicable to bottled juices, bottled sodas, pex piping, etc. Also canned goods (beers, foods) where there's a plastic liner in the can.

If some of the contamination is "pre bottling" then the issue may be way more pervasive than just bottled water.

timschmidt• 3 years ago

Anything filtered is likely to contain small parts of the filter itself, which is almost always partially plastic.

isilofi3• 3 years ago

"metal" is too unspecific. You usually want stainless steel, preferrably CrNiMo steel (V4A, 1.4401 or similar).

Aluminium bottles are always coated with plastic in the factory, which flakes off and usually isn't really better than plastic-bottle-plastic, sometimes even worse (containing PTFE, BPA, ...). As soon as the coating is gone, aluminium will dissolve in the water, and aluminium salts are known to be "not good", in addition to the influence on taste. Same for copper, in addition to the hassle to keep copper clean. Steel bottles are better because proper kitchen-quality stainless steel (the one with Molybdenum in it, in addition to Chromium and Nickel) doesn't leech out into common drinks (including salty hot broth, which would stain CrNi steel) and doesn't need inner coating.

a_imho• 3 years ago

Is there anything against glass containers? I'm debating what to use for medium/long term storage (replacing the contents) and indeed I'm wary of metal coatings.

bryanlarsen• 3 years ago

I'd be stronger than that. The soft plastic inside an Aluminum bottle is always worse than a plastic bottle. Even if it's not PTFE or BPA, it's less durable than the hard plastic bottles. And the neurological effects of aluminum are well known.

Given that almost all metal bottles are coated aluminum, the vast majority of "metal water bottle only" parents are doing more harm than good IMO.

latortuga• 3 years ago

Are cans or canned food any better? It's all lined with plastic.

Al-Khwarizmi• 3 years ago

My little boy drinks bottled water.

First of all, at least where I live, tap water has chlorine. Which seems to carry some risks (see, e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12594192/).

Secondly, my building has copper and PVC pipes, which are also suspected of having some adverse health effects.

Thirdly, where I live, sometimes (about once per month) tap water comes out brown. Authorities typically say that it's fine to drink, and I suppose they analyze it and it conforms to some official standard, but I'm not going to drink or give anyone brown water. And that also makes me think that maybe the days it doesn't look brown to me, it might be also somewhat brown, just maybe not brown enough for me to notice.

Maybe I'm wrong and plastic from bottles is much worse than these things, but I don't think you should be so amazed that people can prefer bottled water. At the end of the day, it's a matter of picking your poison... with incomplete information.

monadicmonad• 3 years ago

I can 100% taste the plastic in any bottled water.

hasty_pudding6• 3 years ago

I go to whole foods and fill up a 5 gallon jug of reverse osmosis water for cheaper than a single 8 oz bottle of water.

whatamidoingyo• 3 years ago

Don't know why you're downvoted. Same. It's $2. Lasts a good week.

eviks• 3 years ago

could be due to this?

the most commonly detected plastic was polyamide, a material commonly used in water filtration systems and "the most popular membrane material used in reverse osmosis

fullstop4• 3 years ago

RO water is kind of tasteless, though, since it lacks all mineral content.

evilduck• 3 years ago

I've never seen anyone toting big heavy and fragile glass carboy to Whole Foods, they're always hauling a lightweight plastic jug into a store that filtered the water with plastic PET tubing, plastic polyamide reverse osmosis filters, and plastic dispenser hardware, and likely taking it home to a water dispenser also predominately made of plastic. Bulk jug refills are cheaper and less wasteful than 12oz bottles but as a mechanism to reduce exposure to plastic contaminants I'm not going to assume it's meaningfully better.

hasty_pudding6• 3 years ago

I never thought a comment about filling up a water jug would be my most downvoted comment haha

pests3• 3 years ago

The article states the majority of the plastic comes from the membrane in a reverse osmosis filter... so are you really any better off?

hasty_pudding6• 3 years ago

Whats the alternative?

I don't live next to a rocky mountain spring.

h1fra• 3 years ago

It bothers me that so many people drink bottled water in places where tap water is drinkable. But from time to time I'm reminded that even in those places sometimes bottled water is unavoidable. I have friends in Paris that can't drink tap water after they had led poisoning thanks to very old plumbing.

rvnx2• 3 years ago

This is a sentence you can say in places with nice water, but often the mineralization content is very different, the taste isn't really good, etc.

hellweaver666• 3 years ago

you can get home filter systems (either manual jug style or plumbed in) that can deal with most of these problems.

dopidopHN2• 3 years ago

I live in New Orleans. Our water is the Mississippi water.

The Mississippi is also the open sewer of the Midwest.

And our sewer and water board is incompetent and corrupt ( I love public infra. This one sucks )

As a result. I don’t drink that water directly and filter it.

I think that will be more and more common. At least in the US.

HenryBemis• 3 years ago

Would some Brita (or any other related product) filter pitcher help at this, or it wouldn't catch some/most/all of the nasty stuff? (genuinely asking)

nervousvarun• 3 years ago

Who Dat! Also live in NO. We also filter our water (though my primary contamination motivation is lead w/ a 2 year old over plastic).

The S&WB almost needs it's own discussion thread. Not sure your average American HN reader can even comprehend the level of incompetence we have to deal with from that group.

jdksmdbtbdnmsm• 3 years ago

And our sewer and water board is incompetent and corrupt

Karl Marx showed us 150 years ago that a government under capitalism is a capitalist government.

coldtea2• 3 years ago

The Mississippi is also the open sewer of the Midwest.

Shouldn't be a problem. Might I interest you in some new water?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEWater

wouldbecouldbe• 3 years ago

A lot of places are high levels of Chlorine that also have bad effects, for instance in Spain it's pretty high and linked to lung issues when showering.

Here still lead pipes are being discovered in old building, which has proven to lead to significant issues in Brain development of children.

Also often other residue is found of farming & medicine and other things seeping into the ground water.

So sadly finding clean & good water is not easy, bottled or tap.

kylebenzle4• 3 years ago

Do heavy metal water filters not work in Paris for some reason?

hollerith• 3 years ago

My five minutes of research suggests that it's cheaper to buy (as bottled water, in a store) all the water you need for drinking and cooking than to buy, install and maintain a purifier capable of removing lead.

Decabytes• 3 years ago

I knew a girl in college that would only drink bottled water. She had convinced herself there was a taste difference. She wouldn't even drink tap water filtered from a brita filter

rvnx2• 3 years ago

She was right, there is a big difference.

Try Evian versus the waters sold by Coca-Cola (that are tap-water equivalent) and you can really feel it.

greatpostman• 3 years ago

There’s a huge difference

fullstop4• 3 years ago

Not where I live, but my local water supply has been tapped by Deer Park [1].

I still filter the drinking water, but my tap quality is fantastic.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deer_Park_Spring_Water

6d6b73• 3 years ago

All that plastic must have some taste, right?

monktastic1• 3 years ago

Difference from what? Even different municipalities have vastly different tastes from each other.

(That said, it's never bothered me to drink tap water wherever I go, and acclimate quickly. I think the bottled water trend is insane.)

ImHereToVote• 3 years ago

Aren't Brita filters gonna have the same problem as the nanoplastics discussed in this article? The article specifically says that the plastic isn't from the bottles themselves.

xyst• 3 years ago

The marketing teams behind bottled water successfully brainwashed people. Most people don’t even realize it

diggan2• 3 years ago

Ignoring the taste differences between bottled water and non-bottled water, don't you think water overall can have different taste? Water from different places in the world have different contents, why wouldn't that affect the taste?

And if we can agree that different water can taste different, why couldn't some bottled water taste different than non-bottled water?

Clubber• 3 years ago

Ironically a lot of bottled water is just tap. It's one of the biggest scams out there. You're also generally paying 1600x markup.

https://stonepierpress.org/goodfoodnews/bottled-water-or-tap....

Thorrez• 3 years ago

I think there is a taste difference. Did you ask her to try a blind taste test?

cssinate• 3 years ago

I had a roommate like this. So I set up a blind taste test. I set up 10 tests with two glasses each, most of which had one of each type, but I think 3 had either both bottled or both tap. Regardless, it came out int he end, that he couldn't even tell them apart, let alone have a favorite. For some reason, even after the test, he continued to drink bottled water.

smaccona• 3 years ago

Penn & Teller did an episode years ago where they tried to debunk the claim that there was any difference between tap and bottled water. They colluded with a New York City restaurant where the waiters told customers that the restaurant was trying out several new waters and asking customers to taste test each one before deciding which one they should ultimately go with. They made up fake bottle labels such as "Arctic Mist", "Himalayan Snow" and similar (I can't remember the actual names), and in reality Penn and Teller were filling the water bottles from a garden hose in the back of the restaurant with New York City tap water (though admittedly NYC water is very good).

Not only did the customers like the waters, many of them claimed that one was much better than another, expressed a preference, and justified the preference with comments along the lines of "I can really taste the difference in this one, it's more XXX". There was even one customer who refused to believe Penn and Teller when they revealed that all of the bottles contained NYC tap water, and insisted that the waters were different from each other. A true testament to how the mind can fool itself.

The episode in question used to be available on YouTube, but now appears to be paywalled by Paramount+ unfortunately.

lylejantzi3rd• 3 years ago

For some reason, even after the test, he continued to drink bottled water.

Most people don't change their minds based on new information (dialectic). You have to appeal to their emotions (rhetoric). This is something Aristotle observed 2500 years ago. It's crucial to understand if you want to understand how people make decisions and how you might be able to change their minds about something.

... I say, doing the exact opposite. It's a difficult habit to break.

TylerE3• 3 years ago

There are valid reasons that could be the case.

Maybe what they actually don't care for is some slight aftertaste from the cleaning products used on the glass?

Also, your nose plays a rather big role in your sense of taste. Using a small mouthed bottle that doesn't tend to waft towards the nose as you drink will have an effect.

kstrauser• 3 years ago

I’ve been in places with bad tasting tap water. Today I live in East Bay, CA and our tap water is amazing.

If I were faced with the sludge coming out of the pipe in some places, I’d stock up on Brita pitchers. Here, I never go out of my way to filter it.

AlexandrB• 3 years ago

I find that water flavour has a strong context-sensitive component. For example, I find water tastes really good when I'm really thirsty or after a workout. Any flavour differences between water sources are completely overpowered by this effect for me.

foxyv• 3 years ago

I've also found that drinking water while there is moving water around you makes it taste better. So like, if there is a trickle of water coming out of the sink or a fountain.

tivert• 3 years ago

I knew a girl in college that would only drink bottled water. She had convinced herself there was a taste difference. She wouldn't even drink tap water filtered from a brita filter

There almost certainly is a taste difference. The mineral content is likely different, and the plastic from the bottle can have an influence, too.

I can definitely taste a difference between our (Pur-filtered) tap water and the cheap bottled water we get.

When I was a kid, I wouldn't drink Aquafina (or Dasani) because they tasted plasticky. I attributed it to them using the same plastic for Cola bottles, without the overpowering flavors to mask subtle tastes from the plastic. I'm not as picky now, but my taste buds have gotten less sensitive and it's also possible they fixed the issue.

dns_snek• 3 years ago

There's an obvious taste difference between bottled water Vs straight tap water Vs filtered water, ime. That said, you will get used to the different taste after a couple of days and you won't even notice it, so that's not a good reason to buy bottled water.

TylerE3• 3 years ago

I'be been in the same house for 30 years and the tap water still tastes like ass to me - and that's city water from a relatively well-resourced town.

falsandtru• 3 years ago

"Previous studies found the major chemical composition to be PET, which is expected since the bottle is made of PET," Yan told us. "Therefore, for a long time, we had the impression that the majority of plastic particles inside bottled water would be Polyethylene terephthalate (PET) particles of a few hundred nanometers in size."
"That was incorrect," Yan said.
Ironically enough, the most commonly detected plastic was polyamide, a material commonly used in water filtration systems and "the most popular membrane material used in reverse osmosis … a common water purification method shared by all three brands [of water tested]," the team wrote in the paper.

Too different from the title. And the other comments seem to have been written without reading the text.

everdrive2• 3 years ago

This is unfortunate news given that I have a plastic water filter on my house.

kylebenzle4• 3 years ago

Plastic seems like an odd choice to use to drink/eat from and even stranger to filter your water. The Berkey uses a carbon filter and ceramic filters have been used for centuries. I e filtered my water through either for the last 20 years. It has always boggled my mind that people use plastic to drink out of and filter their water.

Can I ask, why do you choose to use plastic rather than ceramic/carbon filter?

tokai• 3 years ago

Most modern plumbing has plastic parts.

crtified• 3 years ago

I assume the same principle of microplastic contamination applies to some degree, not only to bottled water itself, but also to many other food and drink products where a primary ingredient is that kind of commercial plastic-filtered water. For example, most packaged beverages (soft drinks, alcoholic drinks, etc), and certain packaged or jarred food items.

BuckYeah• 3 years ago

I read these articles and the comments and wonder how many people who are concerned with these things also drink alcohol or drive dangerously or consume unhealthy food. All of which will affect their lives way worse than particles of plastic.

kylebenzle4• 3 years ago

Exactly. Why be a vegetarian, or watch your weight if your also going to drink occasionally? Why avoid heroin if your going to overeat once in awhile.

mc323• 3 years ago

The problem is people don't know how to quantify the risk, including myself.

However there a number of people who panic! And the panicky people have loud voices. They treat everything like DDT or asbestos. That's not to say that caution is not warranted. It is, but take it easy, the frogs aren't turning gay and people are living longer, so long as they don't get hooked on addictive drugs, including tobacco, alcohol, MJ, amphetamines, etc.

latentcall• 3 years ago

All of which will affect their lives way worse than particles of plastic.

Okay, are you saying we shouldn’t care whatsoever if we ingest PLASTIC (!!!) because beer and McDonalds exist? People shouldn’t care?

I don’t drink, I don’t eat fast food. I don’t “drive dangerously” and I sure as hell am going to do everything in my power to make sure I am not eating or drinking plastic. Same goes for my wife and kids.

shawnz• 3 years ago

Why the scare exclamations? Are you implying that plastics ought to be scarier to consume than those other things? Even though plastics have been specifically engineered to be as inert as possible, they're used in the body in medical applications, etc?

josefresco• 3 years ago

My town banned single-use plastic water bottles. Now stores sell water in cans, does that water also contain plastic particles?

It sounds like it doesn't matter:

"Ironically enough, the most commonly detected plastic was polyamide, a material commonly used in water filtration systems and "the most popular membrane material used in reverse osmosis … a common water purification method shared by all three brands [of water tested]," the team wrote in the paper."

ijhuygft7763• 3 years ago

I think cans are coated with a chemical unfortunately

Virtually all metal cans used for food and beverage products are lined on the inside with a coating that uses BPA as a starting material.

DoingIsLearning• 3 years ago

the most commonly detected plastic was polyamide, a material commonly used in water filtration systems and "the most popular membrane material used in reverse osmosis … a common water purification method shared by all three brands [of water tested]

Is this inevitable with a polyamide membrane RO system or is this wear and tear with insuficient maintenance/ part replacement?

pyaamb• 3 years ago

Are there good reasons why Distillation + Re-Added Electrolytes method isn't used more?

endo_bunker• 3 years ago

Cost

bilsbie3• 3 years ago

I haven’t been able to find a good distiller. Everything on Amazon looks to be rebrands of the same product which I tried.

It seems once the water is boiling inside it’s vigorous enough to kick particles out with the steam. (And it’s hard to refill without occasionally spilling on the cord which ultimately killed mine)

bilsbie3• 3 years ago

I’m still trying to figure out why I can’t buy a drip coffee maker that’s not plastic.

Hot water and an acidic beverage running through plastic every morning. Doesn’t seem good.

jmnicolas3• 3 years ago

Look for a Chemex or a V60 (the non plstic one). But it will involve a bit of labor.

bilsbie3• 3 years ago

Are pour overs more work? I typically make a full pot.

ijhuygft7763• 3 years ago

why use a drip coffee make when you could be making some good coffee for about the same price using something like Bialetti Moka Express Espresso Maker?

darajava• 3 years ago

you can. i use a metal funnel and unbleached coffee filters

menotyou• 3 years ago

Because of the we did not like the taste of our tab water and we were concerned with plastic in the water when buying bottled water, we bought a reverse osmosis filter for home. We added a mineral filter to the system so we get some minerals as well (only to improve the taste).

I still quite a fan of this even when I drink water from plastic bottles when I am on the road.

Cost wise I found it evens out per bottle when compared to buy cheap bottled water from e.g. Aldi. However, it is not necessary to carry water bottles anymore which already is quite an improvement and well worth the money.

ijhuygft7763• 3 years ago

Don't Aldi's water bottles have chlorine like city water does?

TylerE3• 3 years ago

The article has bad news for ya then...

the most commonly detected plastic was polyamide, a material commonly used in water filtration systems and "the most popular membrane material used in reverse osmosis

soramimo• 3 years ago

Ugh, I also have a reverse Osmosis system and this is the first time hearing about this. Anyone here knows is there is research suggesting that these filters may have adverse health effects?

morpheos137• 3 years ago

The blind group think and hand waving around this topic always astounds me.

Plastics used in water bottles are not water soluable.

Is there ANY hard evidence of harm to human health from ingesting minute quantities plastic dust vs any other kinds of dust?

Most plastics are chemically and biologically inert. That is why they don't break down in nature.

Where is the evidence that they react in the body to cause harm?

A water bottle is not your vinyl shower curtain. It is made of PET or maybe PE. Neither are biologically active.

Polyamide ( nylon ) in water filters is non toxic. You could probably eat a teaspoon of fine nylon powder a day suspended in water for years with no health effects because it would just pass through the body without reacting, mainly excreted with feces. Your intestines are not going to absorb insoluble plastics into your blood. The quantities found in water bottles are far, far, less than a teaspoon.

Is there any study that purports to find a significant quantity of polyamide or PET or PE in blood???

It really seems there is a media generated mass hysteria around safe plastics. Not all plastics are the same. Plastics used for food or drink application are typically PROVEN safe from decades of study. What are we all worried about then?

jmnicolas3• 3 years ago

As long as you can't definitively prove it's harmless, I'd rather avoid the stuff if at all possible.

For example there was a time when publicity recommending cigarettes to pregnant women was a thing.

rldjbpin2• 3 years ago

having grown up with in-house water filteration for drinking, from simple uv or charcoal filtering to 14+ stage filteration shebang, it is sad to hear that the source of microplastics might be from the RO process.

i wonder if it is more of an issue for large-scale filteration or even for the ones used at homes. anyways, for our generation and the next microplastics are here to stay (just check the search results here https://hn.algolia.com/?q=microplastics)

Bottled water has 'up to 100 times' more bits of plastic than previously feared

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