Sweden turns to military to help police combat gang crime

https://www.ft.com/content/6b470a3a-178b-4f9a-95af-2d4a59b4c982

by belter • 3 years ago

85 73 3 years ago

ft.com

jasonjamerson• 3 years ago

Archive link?

workfromspace• 3 years ago

Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37696430

e12e• 3 years ago

https://archive.ph/SXOZn

Vecr• 3 years ago

I hope they retain the spirit of NORDBAT 2.

rozularen2• 3 years ago

Interesting how the immigration policies are the biggest contributing factor to this situation. At least now that the centre-right took the government and is trying to fight against the outcome of those policies, the opposition agrees with their proposed measures.

Meanwhile in other countries (e.g. Spain) the left don't want to face the very same issues (although we don't have that many fireguns related crimes, in our case the weapons of choice are usually machetes, knives, etc...)

jacooper• 3 years ago

Its depends on how its handled. Germany took even more immigrants, and it doesnt have the same issues, at least not to the same degree.

NDizzle• 3 years ago

More immigrants per capita?

rozularen2• 3 years ago

I think the biggest difference is that for immigrants, Germany is seen as country where one can prosper, have a good job and a nice car because of its strong economy while Spain is seen as a paradise where you can live a decent life on government subsidies because of its policies, also the weather and culture.

Edit: I must add that here in Spain we have the "okupa" problem where people occupy unused houses for years sometimes before a judge rules they should be taken out.

skippyboxedhero• 3 years ago

Because Germany took different immigrants.

Sweden was one of the countries which specifically took the refugees that other countries didn't want: Somalian, Eritrean, Syrian, Afghan, etc. If you look at other countries that have taken people from these countries, the same thing has happened but at a lower level. Sweden went as far as it is possible to go, they let anyone in and gave them citizenship immediately...this is the result, that is why they have had particularly severe problems.

I will also gently point out...the recent wave of illegal immigration into Europe is coming from these countries again. Other countries are represented, some of these have their own issues but the specific issues with people from one or two of the countries above (I won't name which) are well-known and exist in every other country they have ended up (in the case of one, this has been going on since the mid-90s...the reason why no-one wanted them before is because countries have tried to take them before...and it didn't work, Sweden had very specific beliefs about integration that guided their decisions...and they turned out to be very wrong).

temporarara• 3 years ago

They definitely have issues with immigrant gangs though, and they are looking for solutions, see for example: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-crime-deportations/a-66467396

There it is said that only a third of the gang members are German citizens. They've got like 100 gangs that matter there, and pretty much all are Turkish (Kurds too, not that specific ethnicities matter too much but the point here is that they are immigrant gangs and they are a direct result of the immigrant policies).

nradov• 3 years ago

Really? Quite a few Germans seem to regret that now.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53517022

https://www.dw.com/en/new-years-eve-in-cologne-5-years-after...

DavidVoid• 3 years ago

The main issue is integration, not immigration. City planning and free school choice plays a big part imo. If most immigrants from poor countries end up living in the same areas and having their kids go to the same schools as each other, then you'll inevitably end up with situations like this.

And I'm sure the archaic drug legislation and a few details about the court system play a part too.

Red_Tarsius• 3 years ago

Can you point to any place where integration between widly different cultures worked on the long term? One place where mass immigration didn't result in the erosion of social trust, safety concerns and political divide through ethnic lines?

twelve403• 3 years ago

immigrants from poor countries end up living in the same areas

how can this ever be changed? it's a free country so these people have freedom of movement and of course they will choose to live next to their friends and relatives. Unless you propose to forcibly disperse them away from each other?

user_named2• 3 years ago

Why would that cause any problems if it's not the immigrants committing the crimes. Yes, immigration is the problem.

renegat0x0• 3 years ago

Uncontrolled immigration can be a problem, since there is no integration that could handle the amount.

tim333• 3 years ago

A lot of the issue it seems to me is not immigration per sei but who you let immigrate. Let in PhDs and medics and no problems. Let in illiterate drug gangs as in Sweden and much problems.

letrowekwel2• 3 years ago

Integration is exponentially harder if you're a (potentially traumatized) and uneducated asylum seeker from a poor country, compared to someone who migrates for work and already holds some qualifications. So, in that sense Sweden's migration policies are to be blamed, since the country has received way more asylum seekers per capita than most other EU countries.

Apparently Sweden has the highest gap between employment rate of citizen and non-EU citizen in the whole European Union. I think it's mainly because so many migrants arrived to seek asylum rather than work. But yes, city planning and ineffective legal system do not exactly help either.

Legogris3• 3 years ago

Interesting how the immigration policies are the biggest contributing factor to this situation.

If you listen to the PM, yes. Another major factor (actually the biggest?) is Sweden's among European countries relatively unique hardline and boneheaded stance on recreational drugs including cannabis, which has contributed to growth and strengthening of criminal gangs who fund themselves and maintain territory by drug trade, simultaneously silently pushing otherwise law-abiding citizens into the criminal sphere, furthering the split into parallel societies. Basically the opposite of the Portugal approach. There are arguments that the law on sex work (buying sexual services is a crime; selling is not) has been having similar effect.

If you believe it was naivete behind the open immigration policy, well, you could still say the same here.

BrandoElFollito3• 3 years ago

The drug laws in France are the same if not more conservative (they include denial for medical use of cannabis for instance).

Same for euthanasia. At least we have a strong abortion law thanks to Ms Veil and others that fought for it in the 70's.

jsnell• 3 years ago

The article just says that the numbers are the worst ever for Sweden. But how bad? Is it 1.1x, 2x, or 10x worse than five years ago? How do the crime numbers compare to other European countries? To US?

None of this context is there.

paddim8• 3 years ago

According to this, murders are about the same as 30 years ago: https://bra.se/statistik/statistik-om-brottstyper/mord-och-d...

Jensson• 3 years ago

They changed the definition, that is why. The number of reported murders are twice as high today as back then.

Dotted line is reported murders to compare like to like: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Fatal_vi...

TrickyRick• 3 years ago

According to that same page the trend is also moving worryingly upwards (Utvecklingen sedan 1990).

So to answer the OP's question (Instead of trying to cheat by answering a completely different question) it's about 2x worse now than 10 years ago. The fact that we were once on this level before is completely irrelevant.

rosmax_13374• 3 years ago

The situation in Sweden is dire and everyone living in the west would do well to listen to the lack of sounds our canary is making. Decades, with an emphasis on the last decade, of disastrous immigration policies have lead up to this and when the time has come to admit that the opposition to these policies was right all along. But instead only shallow dismissals of racism and bigotry are what you hear from establishment politicians and their followers.

I have come to believe since a time ago that the only solution is a more or less revolutionary change in how our country is managed is the only way to solve the underlying issues of corruption and nepotism that we see in our governments right now. This situation also does not seem to be unique to my own country unfortunately, but rather indicative of the situation the entire west sits in.

As times get more and more violent, the chances for a truly peaceful solution become smaller and smaller. It's high time to start looking at what in other times would have seemed like drastic solutions, like mass deportation. Beggars cannot be choosers when it comes to solving a problem of this scale, and at this late a stage of a frankly potentially terminal sickness.

gumballindie3• 3 years ago

Were these caused by the same policies too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Biker_War

Anyone that’s been to sweden can see how segregated some of these people lived for “decades”, and not by their choice. What i dont understand is why such countries advertise themselves as “welcoming” when in fact are pretty unwelcoming and closed. No wonder people struggle to integrate. People dont just appear from nowhere, they are being pulled by certain factors - one being that the swedish economy is supposedly advanced.

Instead though, sweden, germany, etc want what they call “cheap labour” - a people living in perpetual poverty doing jobs “the locals dont want”. All masked by virtue signaling. Well it turns out the cheap labour doesnt want to live like a perpetual underclass and wants a way out. These criminal acts are just signs of desperation. I think they should be dealt with swiftly and boldly and the criminal element rooted out but people need to be given a real chance to integrate. Regardless, sweden is now a changed country and will remain so.

Gud6• 3 years ago

This has nothing to do with cheap labor. This has everything to do with politicians doubling down on policies that don't work to save face, rather than to admit they were wrong. What is being done now is too little too late. The Swedes who are generally good people, will never do what is now required(mass deportation).

Nordic Biker War? Where 10 people died in all of Scandinavia over a decade time? You think this is at all comparable? 10 people die on a W E E K L Y basis in Sweden, almost exclusively young migrant men(usually 2nd generation).

Indeed, Sweden(=Swedish left wing and liberal politicians) should not have been pursuing this extreme policy of open borders from Africa and the Middle East.

The Swedish people were never in favor of mass immigration, despite the amount of propaganda they were fed on a daily basis by SVT & SR(Swedish state broadcast).

imartin2k• 3 years ago

“ What i dont understand is why such countries advertise themselves as “welcoming” when in fact are pretty unwelcoming and closed.”

Good observation. Probably the answer is that it felt morally good in the short term. Many members of the “educated class” in Sweden wanted to feel good about doing what they believed was right, but just as long as it didn’t mean actually having to be too close to the newcomers. So they kept filling up the (in relative terms) unattractive remote districts and tried for a long time to look away while problems there built up and gang shootings and bombings became frequent

I’ve heard hypotheses about Sweden’s collective guilt about having helped the Nazis during the 2nd world war being a possible cause for the posture as “moral superpower” which shaped the politics of the later decades.

rosmax_13374• 3 years ago

The immigration was never an economic benefit for Sweden, I recall that someone calculated that the average immigrant was actually a net cost for the nation, given the disproportionate amount of welfare costs that it takes to take in these people. The idea that we took them in against their will and because we wanted to exploit them, is a very wrong idea on more than a factual level, in fact it reeks of the kind of passive aggressive gaslighting that seeks to propagandize Swedish men and women to hate themselves.

And even then, theories about why it didn't work is certainly something that belongs in an ivory tower. Now we need decisive policy to correct this giant error, no matter "what caused the error". Mass deportation is the only solution that I see, and the more we wait in implementing it, I predict the less peaceful the outcome will be.

incomingpain• 3 years ago

Here in Canada, we have been handling immigration woes our entire existence. It's not easy.

Imagine as you might, you bring in 150,000 syrians. Do you have enough arabic translators? Obviously not, how about language teachers? Obviously not. How about beds? What you want them to sleep on park benches?

But when you have gotten to the point where your law enforcement has failed their job and you bring in the military. The fundamental country rule is that the government gets complete monopoly over violence, law enforcement is to prevent violence. When you no longer can do this, you have failed and are no longer legitimate as a country.

This is the point of posse comitatus.

Sweden turns to military to help police combat gang crime

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