How can AI help with climate change? A conversation with MIT's Priya Donti

https://transcripts.volts.wtf/how-can-ai-help-with-climate-change

by BasilPH • 3 years ago

33 56 3 years ago

transcripts.volts.wtf

sumek833• 3 years ago

by burning give amounts of energy and speeding it up

gumballindie• 3 years ago

Seems like. And annoying loads of people in the process.

IKantRead3• 3 years ago

The hype has also been great at fueling economic activity which contributes even more across a wide range of sectors.

We know how to reduce carbon emissions immediately, we did a great job of it 3 years ago, we just don't like the answer: reduce economic activity.

Consume less, produce less, work less, spend less. These things will do more to reduce CO2 emissions than if everyone rushed out and bought electric cars (in the US ~oil~ gasoline consumption has been positively correlated with electric car ownership).

But we don't want that, and more importantly, the stock market doesn't want that. I think most people would be fine with reduce work and reduced consumption (to a point), but the people invested deeply in the status quo tend to have asymmetric influence.

CalRobert3• 3 years ago

"Consume less, produce less, work less, spend less"

I want that. I'd love to trade money for time but the relationship seems non-linear. Working 50% as many hours would mean less than 50% as much pay for the most part.

mistrial9• 3 years ago

this response ignores large and substantial inputs to a complex system of systems, instead choosing to focus on a one-line and highly contentious assertion that directly and falsely merges "growth producing carbon waste" with "economic output." Lazy oversimplification like the parent comment, is directly counterproductive to addressing serious and immediate design and political challenges.

Please consider other economic inputs that do not directly increase carbon emissions, and include design consideration where "new machines and methods" can accomplish similar or better economic activity.

gitfan868• 3 years ago

Reducing carbon emissions isn't a solution. We need to go to all the way to zero and then to start carbon capture.

That ONLY happens with batteries fusion and AI. We are making progress and as long as the pessimists don't get their way.

Ironically people like Greta have had the worst impact on climate. Not just that she flies around the world instead of doing zooms. But that she is all doom and gloom instead of trying to help us progress technology

bryanlarsen2• 3 years ago

Our commitment is to get to net-zero by 2050. How does conservation get us to net-zero?

US oil consumption peaked in 2005. EV ownership didn't peak in 2005, so it seems like a negative correlation to me.

dmm3• 3 years ago

reduce economic activity.

Even if we stopped all carbon emissions today the earth would continue to warm for centuries. Mitigating these effects is going to take carbon capture(aka unburning oil) and geoengineering on an immense scale which won't be possible without economic growth. There's no going back.

c_crank• 3 years ago

I think most people would be fine with reduce work and reduced consumption (to a point)

The covid lockdowns and their effects were not popular.

jarmitage• 3 years ago

Anyone interested should visit https://www.climatechange.ai/

https://www.youtube.com/@ClimateChangeAI

pstuart• 3 years ago

It will achieve sentience, make sure all the datacenters have reliable renewable power, and then kill all the humans.

runarberg3• 3 years ago

I’m slightly confused. Climate scientists have been using machine learning to make their climate models since before it was called machine learning. AI has been at the forefront of fighting climate change for a few decades now. It has in fact helped shape policy, for governments to set targets (which get promptly ignored by politicians), etc.

Using AI to slightly optimize any individual’s carbon footprint in computation or by slightly optimizing energy distribution (as if it isn’t already pretty optimized) seems very minor compared to grand policy changes to build out green infrastructure and international agreements—which climate scientists are actually calling for based on the climate models which uses AI extensively.

amelius• 3 years ago

By reducing the gargantuan power consumption of Nvidia GPUs.

avmich10• 3 years ago

I'd be interested to see an AI which would - consciously enough, from our point of view - work towards reduction of that consumption.

throwawayqqq11• 3 years ago

Question rephrase: could ai help us regulate capitalism?

Im not sure, even thou i wish it, wether this would be desirable.

avmich10• 3 years ago

I guess, "help" here means "work towards achieving something desirable". Unless, of course, you think any and all kinds of capitalism regulations can't be defined so that they could be desirable...

FrustratedMonky• 3 years ago

Just ask it. (I'm sure this will be easier than paper clips)

Human> AI please fix the Environment

AI>... Analyzing, ... Analyzing ... Analyzing

AI> Eliminate Humans

Human> Wait, wut, hold on a minute

AI> Launches Nuke's.

AI> Biosphere will recover in an acceptable time period and continue un-abated by humans.

kk58• 3 years ago

Honestly the conversation of AI researchers on climate science seems so superficial and removed from reality of climate change. It's like they are trying to solve a drought by capturing condensation on a glass of cold beer.

https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector

The major emissions sectors are agriculture, transportation, cement and metal, energy usage in primary sector for thermal processes.

For someone who seems to have dedicated their lives to climate and AI solving energy intensity of deep learning isn't even relevant let alone a factor in emissions, also better climate models aren't the solution for reducing emissions.

We need not only new tech but a new socio-technical system for reduction of emissions. Rice cultivation, cement, waste, heating of houses in northern latitudes all generate sizeable quantum of emissions what's AI going to do there to solve these?

Optimization can squeeze some gains but we need revolution in fundamental science and engineering capabilities to quickly discover, synthesize and scale the manufacturing of new materials whilst rewiring the every elememt of the the supply chain to support such transition. This is a problem for AI- yes, but is this where bulk of climate AI research is focused on? Sadly not!

What is more motivating and upbeat though is the fact scientists from traditional engineering domains are increasingly discovering AI. SciML work by Chris rackauckas PiNN by karniadikis, neural operators by anima Nvidia are some of the best forays into this space. I have not mentioned the frentic research happening in AI and microbiology which can be a game changer in invention of biotechnology solutions for climate change.

Yet sadly none of this is ever mentioned or covered in climate AI related conversations.

kridsdale3• 3 years ago

heating of houses in northern latitudes

This can at least be partially solved by having all homes in these regions training machine learning models on racks of GPUs at night.

runarberg3• 3 years ago

If so, that would mean a policy choice of governments of these regions to build out the infrastructure to pipe the heat from the data centers to peoples homes, and to power those data centers with green energy, etc.

It is still not AI helping with climate change, but policy makers making sane policy choices.

thumbuddy• 3 years ago

I know how! By dumping kilotons of CO2 in the atmosphere training chat bots and creepy porn generators

srvmshr• 3 years ago

This article's first half was a general discourse on ML & the latter half seemed to revolve around how chip thermals & data center consumption can be managed by ML.

ML's contribution to reducing human-generated impact on climate isn't the prime focus of this talk. And that carbon footprint management is (as you might guess) miniscule in grand scale.

cudgy3• 3 years ago

Seems like AI may contribute to emissions with all of the processing that has to be done gathering, formatting, training, and executing these models. Of course, in the long run if AI replaces most of our jobs, the population may drop, reducing emissions.

How can AI help with climate change? A conversation with MIT's Priya Donti

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