Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

https://kotaku.com/mtg-aftermath-leaks-pinkertons-wotc-magic-the-gathering-1850368923

by doener • 3 years ago

273 171 3 years ago

kotaku.com

northernskys30• 3 years ago

Feels like Inscryption (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inscryption).

scrollaway2• 3 years ago

Spoilers! But I vividly recommend this game to everyone. Do go in blind, though.

BiteCode_dev• 3 years ago

Can confirm, this is a wonderful game that will do wonder if you avoid any kind of information before playing it.

It has amazing creativity, novel and fun gameplay, a very strong personality and an opinionated design.

joshu2• 3 years ago

You weren’t kidding. And there is another game/story embedded in the obvious one. Holy crap.

digdugdirk• 3 years ago

Huh. I didn't realize the Pinkerton's were still a thing. Its interesting to see an example of how they operate nowadays when they aren't able to roll in armed and ready like the good ol' days.

That being said, I suppose them threatening to call in the police does that for them.

carlmr• 3 years ago

There was no evidence of wrongdoing on his part. Even if they had evidence that he stole something, a private militia shouldn't be called to enforce this, but a police investigation.

Somebody at WotC should be held liable for this.

Are there no laws in America against this?

phpisthebest3• 3 years ago

Yes, but it requires people to know their legal rights, and engage with them

Had the police been called most likely the police would have said "this is a civil matter" not done nothing, at most taken a report for a detective to investigate the alleged theft.

Also had the homeowner just said "leave my property", and then the police called, the private militia would then be trespassing and the police would remove them.

Here however the homeowner basically consented to the actions, the search, and the seizure while under threat of additional legal action they still consented.

Know your rights.

Reubachi2• 3 years ago

why would this necessitate a police investigation? Even greater waste of time, now affecting the taxpayer.

Guy bought item, company sent item. That's it. Company can ask for it back citing an internal misrelease, or not. Guy can ignore, or not. No breach, theft at all.

Quite Literally a non story I feel silly even commenting about. Why did OP share this a month later? Not HN material.

pmoriarty• 3 years ago

Yes, the Pinkertons are still a thing. There was an interesting post about them here: [1]

Some choice quotes from that thread:

They became famous when Lincoln used them as spies during the Civil War. They became infamous when American industrialists started employing them as union/labor strikebreakers & private police forces who weren’t held accountable by the US government.

For some of their most egregious examples of strike-breaking, check out their part in Carnegie’s Homestead Mill Strike & how they turned a peaceful assembly of strikers into Chicago’s Haymarket Riot.

From the US Library of Congress

What began as a detective agency in Chicago grew into a national private police force. *The Pinkertons stood against organized labor at nearly every turn* from Haymarket to Homestead and famously took down the Molly Maguires, while instilling fear in the hearts of fugitives across the country.

...

Ironically, the Pinkerton Detective Agency was a remarkably progressive organization under Allan Pinkerton. Pinkerton himself only escaped dying with John Brown at Harper's Ferry due to coming down with Pneumonia just before leaving Chicago (a significant number of Brown's 19 men were Pinkerton Agents); and was a staunch, radical abolitionist and supporter of the Union throughout the Civil War. Allan Pinkerton was a fantastic detective and analyst - he was one of the the primary inspirations for both Sherlock and Mycroft Holmes - Doyle didn't think one person with all those skillsets was believable (ironically, the other primary inspiration - Eugene Vidocq in France - had similar dual skillset). Under Lincoln, the Pinkertons became the prototype of the CIA, FBI, and modern Secret Service - and were fantastically good at all of them, as Pinkerton held little to traditional ideas about the capability of minorities and women, employing both enthusiastically and creating a large pool of talent as a result.

However, after the Civil War, the power of the Pinkertons in the Federal Government was a big issue for former Southern States. One of the first "Reconciliation" points was extracting the Pinkertons from their functions in the federal government. Those agents interested in investigation (including Pinkerton himself) ended up in the Justice Department and would eventually become the FBI, those in intelligence wound up under the Military as MI (later OSS and then CIA), those interested in protection joined the actual Secret Service.

. . . And those primarily interested in busting heads, became the private entity known as Pinkerton. Alan Pinkerton had mostly retired by then, and they became a sort of private army for strike-breaking and strong-arming citizens out of the way of the railroads. That's the "Pinkertons" most know, they of Western storybook bad guys and the villains of labour movements. Allan Pinkerton himself wasn't a big fan of labor unions, but only because most unions of the time were segregated, which he could not stand - but otherwise the later actions of the "Pinkertons" had little to do with his influence.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/136zayf/whats...

morelisp• 3 years ago

Not only are they still around, they're not happy that everyone knows they're the baddies.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2019/02/pinkerton-red-dead-...

Spooky23• 3 years ago

I’d laugh in their faces as I slammed the door.

rationalist2• 3 years ago

As would I, but the average person does not have that kind of wherewithal. It is still something we should be concerned about it, as I do not want to live in a world where this is commonplace, and I imagine you wouldn't want to either.

Firmwarrior2• 3 years ago

Yeah, people need to start teaching kids about their rights. Otherwise, kids who don't know about the 4th amendment (that you can tell actual police to go away and that's doubly true for rent-a-cops) are going to grow up and keep voting in politicians who'll keep chipping away at our rights more and more

delecti• 3 years ago

Note that this was about a month ago. If you see the title and think "again?!", no, this is the same incident where they sent Pinkertons.

Not that it's not worth discussing, just that I'm sure someone might otherwise wonder.

George837282• 3 years ago

So, is this guy done with Magic, or will he keep buying and promoting their products? WoC have been known assholes for years now, I would think people would figure it out by now.

rationalist2• 3 years ago

I used to play MTG 20-15 years ago. I do not play anymore because of the constantly evolving playset, mechanics, and rules that I could not keep up with. I'm even more put off lately by the seemingly-cash-grab of incorporating other games/words such as Dungeons and Dragons and I think Lord of the Rings.

anonymouskimmer3• 3 years ago

I do not play anymore because of the constantly evolving playset, mechanics, and rules that I could not keep up with.

Yep. I took a couple of years off in the late 90s and there was no going back.

ldoughty• 3 years ago

Sounds like the buyer should have ASKED for the sheriff.... Private police threatening fines and jail time? Let them say that with law enforcement around for any follow up lawsuit.

A purchase was made and the wrong product arrived at his door.. the seller had legitimate reason to have the product, but broke a street date... The customer did not ask for unreleased product...

Sounds like the dealer is at fault, but not "stolen property"... Do card dealers not own their inventory before a street date? (And, therefore, sold product that was not his?) (Vs. breach of contract)

PointA2B• 3 years ago

He could've closed the door in their faces and there would be nothing they could do about it. The company relied on theatrics and false threats to get back a legitimately purchased product.

CobrastanJorji2• 3 years ago

Could've, but theatrics are used because it's effective. A surprise morning visit by professional intimidators arguing that you "do what we say or you might spend the next decade in jail" can override a lot of logical reasoning.

JohnFen5• 3 years ago

That's exactly what I would have done. "Tell the cops to come with a warrant, and I'll open the door for them."

midjji7• 3 years ago

Perhaps, but they could have broken it down, assaulted them, then claimed that they were violent. They get away with that kind of crap all the time, because mostly, they do this to criminals, and are friends with the local police. Sometimes they get caught, usually for things like shooting a dog that was chained and far out of reach, or because someone had it on video, but these thugs are the kind of people who got rejected from or fired from the police, so however incompetent, cowardly, and violent the cops are, these thugs are worse.

Workaccount2• 3 years ago

*Closed the door and then called the police to report trespassing.

philsnow3• 3 years ago

Do card dealers not own their inventory before a street date? (And, therefore, sold product that was not his?) (Vs. breach of contract)

This is the key question. Almost all the comments in this story are on 1) WotC are jerks for sending Pinks, 2a) the guy shouldn't have given them the product, 2b) if Pinks showed up at your door you'd do it too,

... but if it is indeed the case that dealers don't own pre-release WotC products before the release date, then it goes from open-and-shut "he was within his rights to keep the cards forever" to something more messy.

Root_Denied• 3 years ago

If the dealers don't own pre-release products then it becomes messy for the courts, police, and lawyers.

There's no world in which Pinkertons (or anyone acting similarly in a private-enterprise fashion) should have ever been involved regardless of the legal owners of the product.

danesparza• 3 years ago

Please please PLEASE call 911 the next time this happens. This is an extra-judicial shakedown. There are consequences for idiots who pretend to be police like this.

They would be the ones going to jail if this person had called 911.

wahnfrieden2• 3 years ago

Your advice is to add cops to the Pinkertons?

nullc3• 3 years ago

I get that the youtuber just wanted no trouble, but he may have really screwed himself by not insisting on a waver of liability, agreement that the existing videos can stay up (or, alternatively, compensation to replace the lost income from them), and compensation for his costs at a minimum.

Handing WOTC's paid thugs the material probably didn't do anything to reduce his risk and took away the little leverage he had -- they could even try to spin his willingness to hand it over as an admission that his possession was unlawful.

anonymouskimmer3• 3 years ago

They could try, but all he has to do is mention the intimidation factor of Pinkertons at the door while under oath and I doubt a jury would find him liable for anything.

Plus, at that point, he could probably afford a really good lawyer from crowdfunded donations.

Wizards already has a PR issue from this happening in the first place. They'd be civilly negligent toward the Hasbro shareholders to push it any further.

nullc3• 3 years ago

From the comments it sounds like their "threats" were threats of legal action-- that isn't likely to count as intimidation... and if he's gone far enough in court to end up in front of a jury he would probably already be financially ruined. Now, if he asked them to leave and they didn't that would be something else.

Unfortunately when you're not very wealthy the question if you'd ultimately win or not isn't very important. That's why it's important to get bright line clarity such that if they brought any claims your odds of getting a summary dismissal would be very good.

Your point about the threat being limited by the specter of damage to their brand is a good one except if that were the motivation they wouldn't have opened with an in personal physical confrontation against a party with a highly visible public platform.

he could probably afford a really good lawyer from crowdfunded donations

I doubt it. Sometimes that happens, but often people just blame the victim because there is always a never ending list of nitpicks ("Why didn't he tell the pinkertons they were tresspassing, ask them to leave and send a letter", "why didn't he insist on a release from the company", "he had to know this would happen when he put the video up in the first place!"). And even when the lawyers paid for, nothing can compensate you for the time, disruption in your life, and stress of being targeted.

0cf8612b2e1e• 3 years ago

Easy to say from your armchair and not when the gestapo are at your door. If thugs appear at my door demanding a $50 item or else, yeah....I will probably just give it to them. See if I can claw it back later.

  The Pinkerton employees on the other hand, were less cordial to the YouTuber. Cannon told Kotaku over email that they had threatened to get the county sheriff involved if he did not return the MtG cards. They cited statures with punishments such as a $200,000 fine and up to a decade of jail time.

JohnFen5• 3 years ago

If thugs appear at my door demanding a $50 item or else

If thugs appear at my door for any reason, that door gets slammed shut and I'll be on the phone to get the actual police.

nullc3• 3 years ago

Easy to say from your armchair and not when the gestapo are at your door. If thugs appear at my door demanding a $50 item or else, yeah....I will probably just give it to them.

Close the door and call the police if they don't go away.

I didn't intend it as a criticism but more of a "if you ever find yourself in a similar situation, you may want to consider!".

The YTer had this dropped in his lap, he didn't have a chance to get advice or even consider it fully-- presumably strategic on the part of WotC. Any remotely reasonable response would be blameless in my eyes.

(and if I were determined to find fault, clearly the fault would be answering the door in the first place! :) )

last_responder2• 3 years ago

that his possession was unlawful.

There is no law being broken so it does not matter what he said or did.

t-writescode2• 3 years ago

While that may or may not be true, it's very easy to say things like that and much much harder to deal with the situation in a "rights above safety, to eternal ends" and "perfect world" perspective when in the situation as a flesh-and-blood version of ones self.

mercutio2• 3 years ago

Private security appearing at your door may be intimidating, but it’s not a raid.

Threatening someone with fines or jail time, who took receipt of distributed but embargoed product, i.e. by no stretch of the imagination illegal to possess, is the sort of thing you might want to look into legal options for, though.

wongarsu2• 3 years ago

raid: noun
1a: a hostile or predatory incursion
1b: a surprise attack by a small force

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/raid

alternatively wiktionary:

raid (plural raids)
(military) A quick hostile or predatory incursion or invasion in a battle.
An attack or invasion for the purpose of making arrests, seizing property, or plundering.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/raid

Raid seems like the perfect word for this. Though the headline could make it a bit more clear that no police were involved

jdm22123• 3 years ago

How is knocking on someone's door an "incursion" or a "surprise attack"?

OskarS2• 3 years ago

I always wonder about stories like this what the internal process that lead to this insane overreaction was. At some point, did someone really make the decision "lets send Pinkertons to this guy's house, risking an enormous publicity backlash"? It's easy to blame "the legal department" for stuff like this, but it seems extreme even for the most zealous attorney.

My hunch is that they probably have some kind of security contract with the Pinkertons to safeguard secrets, and the Pinkertons acted on their own. Hasbro/WotC has done some sketchy stuff recently, but this seems extreme even for them.

jldugger• 3 years ago

Hasbro/WotC has done some sketchy stuff recently, but this seems extreme even for them.

I'm told their security executive used to be a pinkerton.

jstarfish3• 3 years ago

If true, that explains a lot.

This sort of response appears deranged to outsiders, but would be completely logical if you rationalize it as calling in a favor from your former colleagues. For someone like that, it's not a vulgar display of force-- it's just another Tuesday. Optics are overlooked in favor of ease.

JohnFen5• 3 years ago

My hunch is that they probably have some kind of security contract with the Pinkertons to safeguard secrets, and the Pinkertons acted on their own

This is almost certainly the case, but Pinkerton was acting as agents of WotC here, so WotC are the ones ultimately responsible.

OskarS2• 3 years ago

For sure. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I was just saying I'm always curious about what the processes are in companies that lead to these disastrous results.

lmkg• 3 years ago

and the Pinkertons acted on their own

Play Pinkerton games, win Pinkerton prizes.

Or, less flippantly: everyone knows who the Pinkertons are and what they do. And the fact that everyone knows is, quite literally, the actual service that they offer. They will do such things without you have to explicitly tell them.

philsnow3• 3 years ago

I have literally never heard of this group. "Pinkerton" is the name of a Weezer album as far as I'm concerned.

duxup2• 3 years ago

I feel bad for the possible guy in the room who said “Guys this seems like a bit much….” and then had to hear the response…

jmyeet• 3 years ago

The most interesting part of this (other than the completely unnecesary, tone-deaf corporate thuggery) is the involvement of the Pinkertons because many people don't know the history of the Pinkerton National Detective Agency, which was really prominent in the mid to late 19th century.

At this time, the US had no real Federal law enforcement to speak of. That came later, modeled after the Pinkertons. Fun fact: the FBI evolved as a result of the Mann Act [1], which was aimed at stopped at white women being "trafficked" across state lines by black men so really it was misagenation.

Anyway, the Pinkertons evolved as corporate muslce in the robber baron era. Strike-breaking, intimidation, sabotage, that sort of thing. At one point the Pinkertons were larger than the US Army. Thier downfall really began with with embarrassing incidents like the Homestead Strike [2].

Honestly two of the better depictions of the Pinkertons come from fiction: HBO's excellent Deadwood series and Rockstar's Red Dead Redemption 2.

The most important lesson here is that law enforcement in the US historically, culturally and actually exists to protect the interests of the wealthy, first and foremost.

as for WotC, they could've made good PR out of this by asking nicely for the cards back and giving the person something for their troubles since ultimately the mistake was WotC's. But no, let's choose violence.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mann_Act

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike

anonymouskimmer3• 3 years ago

"miscegenation"

Interestingly enough, the Mann Act was used to prosecute a high-and-mighty in the KKK: https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2004/march/kk...

f0e4c2f7• 3 years ago

Wizards of the Coast seems to be on a rampage to do as much damage to their brand as possible. Weren't they pretty beloved by fans before some of these more recent actions?

It's like they've turned into the Comcast of table top games.

What do they really have beyond their brand? People can play other games.

dgb23• 3 years ago

It's a shit show and plenty of people are not OK with it, including prominent content creators (for both DnD and MTG) that have a huge draw.

permo-w2• 3 years ago

the DnD movie was very good. maybe they’re getting overconfident

nickthegreek5• 3 years ago

Apparently not good enough for a sequel though. Kinda sad how good something has to do to be considered successful these days.

esharte• 3 years ago

"Weren't they pretty beloved by fans before some of these more recent actions?"

No definitely not

digging2• 3 years ago

What do they really have beyond their brand? People can play other games.

Certainly Dungeons and Dragons has tons of competition from other systems and I won't be playing it anymore, but it does have the network effect and weekly hosted games and name recognition.

MTG, I think, doesn't have serious competition. It is a unique juggernaut. Playing a 5e D&D game today has no relation to old 2e adventures, but many forms of Magic make use of ancient cards with serious monetary value.

Magic is also such an intricate and surprisingly balanced game and has something that other games somehow always struggle with: exactness. There is, technically, no room for interpretation on any Magic card (please correct me if I'm wrong here, I haven't played in 5+ years). Every possible interaction has a precise outcome that can be derived from the rules, or at worst from card-specific errata which are available freely and easily online.

The combination of amazing art, historic value, well-known lore, a massive library, and exact gameplay makes MTG difficult to buck. I'm certainly not buying any more cards, but I don't know where I would start looking if I got the itch for a card game again.

jsmith45• 3 years ago

Right, assuming players have access to the oracle text (the canonical post errata text for the card), and a copy of the comprehensive magic rules, it should be possible to deterministically determine the result of any interaction (modulo any specified randomness or opportunities for human choice).

The comprehensive rules are intended to be fully comprehensive, with only simply logic needed to connect the parts. If this has failed anywhere leaving something without a clear resolution this would be considered a defect in the comprehensive rules or the card's canonical text.

Such defects are not especially common, as they tend to get noticed before new cards or mechanics are released. This is especially true since WOTC ends up programming these mechanics into software not once but at least twice. (First for MTGO, and then again for MTG Arena's backend, and sometimes needing to program it again for the Arena's front end code.)

The need to program it into the software gives makes it much more likely than any remaining ambiguity in the Card's Oracle text or the comprehensive rules gets noticed and addressed.

fwlr• 3 years ago

Hasbro (who are actually the Comcast of table top games) bought WotC in 1999, initially operating it as a legal subsidiary. I only followed MtG from 2001 to 2005; at that time it seemed pretty clear to me that Hasbro was taking a fairly hands-off approach. I don’t know what has happened in the interim but recent news indicated WotC was something like 70% of Hasbro’s entire revenue, so I imagine what happened was, as WotC grew and Hasbro shrank, Hasbro started exercising more of the power of WotC that they have long held but rarely used - basically, becoming more hands-on as the profits grew (unsurprisingly).

There seems to have been several reshuffles of just how legally independent WotC is from Hasbro over the years, although I’m not sure those legal reshuffles are indicative of how much actual power Hasbro was exercising.

My general impression is that WotC had found a point on the Pareto curve of “greedy” vs “respectful” where they were quite greedy but also quite respectful, and Hasbro’s more recent influence has pushed them into “very greedy”, not realizing the Pareto curve was extremely steep and so this caused a corresponding move all the way from “quite respectful” to “very disrespectful”.

rjbwork• 3 years ago

Lucky they didn't get shot. A private entity has no right to raid your house. That is some extremely ballsy behavior for a non-state actor in the US.

last_responder2• 3 years ago

There was no raid

Throw738493• 3 years ago

You ask them to leave, they do not... Unless the "security" recorded and streamed everything into cloud, very difficult to prove.

standardUser• 3 years ago

Did they threaten violence? Do you consider if reasonable or likely that a private citizen would shoot an unarmed, nonviolent person at their door?

the_only_law• 3 years ago

Perhaps maybe not likely, but there were some big stories about this happening recently, so I wouldn’t be shocked.

dragonwriter• 3 years ago

Do you consider if reasonable or likely that a private citizen would shoot an unarmed, nonviolent person at their door?

Reasonable? No.

But its a kind of unreasonable that is far from unheard of (even when it is “in their driveway” rather than “at their door”.)

JohnFen5• 3 years ago

Did they threaten violence?

It sure sounds like it to me, even if only implicitly. They were certainly being intimidating, and intimidation rests on the foundation of the threat of violence.

shepardrtc• 3 years ago

Whoever at WotC decided to send them should be fired. It's just a trading card game. Contact the guy through normal means and ask him to return them.

prepend2• 3 years ago

There’s a massive list of bonehead decisions made by WotC and none have resulted in firing. It’s an interesting hobby where fans have played no matter what the company does and the company knows that.

nickthegreek5• 3 years ago

It’s an interesting hobby where fans have played no matter what the company does and the company knows that.

I don't think thats true. They walked back their license BS over fan outrage.

protocolture• 3 years ago

Theres 2 ex pinkertons in upper management I doubt that will fly.

api_or_ipa• 3 years ago

Huh, if Pinkerton thugs showed up at my door, I would have demanded a warrant + actual law enforcement to even start the conversation. It's not like they have any more privileges than regular people. On the other hand, if they showed up with regular employees and pleaded their case to me I would probably help them out.

Showing up with private heat is the best way ensure I'll think twice about being helpful.

JohnFen5• 3 years ago

Showing up with private heat is the best way ensure I'll think twice about being helpful.

This. If you want me to be cooperative, set the tone by being cooperative yourself.

nickthegreek5• 3 years ago

Ideally with fists full of cash.

Reubachi2• 3 years ago

This really doesn't belong on HN. Old story, editorialized, and ultimatley a non-story with no impact beyond WOTC looking foolish, which is not newsworthy.

Freedom2• 3 years ago

What's more important than all those factors is if it generates "curious" discussion. Reading through the comments, I indeed say it does!

rootsudo2• 3 years ago

1. No legal cause or case. 2. They were basically trespassing, if only the owner asked them to leave. 3. Person invited them in and let them take their property.

Geez people really just create the drama they want. Easily should've told them to pound dirt and slam the door in their face.

Instead the article goes on about one agent being apologetic, and the others not caring.

People really are not aware of their rights.

Remember, if someone has to ASK you or have you CONSENT you can say no. But it seems people don't know they can refuse anymore.

jstarfish3• 3 years ago

Remember, if someone has to ASK you or have you CONSENT you can say no. But it seems people don't know they can refuse anymore.

"Just say no" on police matters is not good universal advice. It can have undesirable consequences.

Two immediate examples:

If you're pulled over and the cop wants to search your car for drugs, you can play roadside lawyer if you'd like. Say no-- it's your right. They'll bring in a drug dog, it'll ring positive (coerced or not), then they proceed to disassemble your car to punish you for being obstinate-- we're talking ripping off door panels and liners to look behind and underneath. Reassembly is for you to deal with. If you have nothing to hide, you save yourself some trouble by just consenting before they call in the dog, which only ever increases the invasiveness of the search. Fail early.

Same for DUI. You don't have to take a roadside sobriety test. Invoking your right to say no means you're getting detained anyway and will spend the next few hours in the hospital lab, which you will be billed for later. If you were drunk, you lose either way, but being stubborn is the costlier approach. Fail early.

You have some rights on land you own. Fewer rights on land you rent. No rights on the road.

rootsudo2• 3 years ago

100% Disagree.

While dogs can ring positive for coerced, you want to make sure the search is as illegal as possible so that any evidence can be tossed, no evidence == no case. A dog can signal falsely for "drugs" but let's say they found $8000, that you have a receipt from the bank? While they will attempt civil forfeiture -- the dog was only for drugs - meaning no drugs found == better attempt to get that case thrown. Same for other medications, or any contraband.

For your DUI example, many a lawyer I talked too and in my university days every law/pre-law professor stated if that ever happened, they would always refuse because it does not present evidence easily - a few hours in a hospital lab means any test result then will be delayed, and lets say you were drunk, (something I don't condone) - you now have more time to sober up and the further test results will be farther from when the stop was done.

It is much easier to defeat a DUI Charge if there was no evidence at roadside that you were actually impaired. Even if your car is towed and you're billed high for the forced blood test and what not - it is still cheaper than a DUI charge which runs $15,000 nowadays, not including the future insurance waivers/SR-22/FR-44 probably required.

You have rights, it is much easier to win a case/have your case dismissed if there is proof the police violated your rights. Lawyers glee and prosecutors will drop cases where there is overt police rights violation.

I would say depending on the area, and on your race/skin color is more of a issue if you're being pulled over vs not consenting to a search because bias exists and LEO will try and try more - but with dashcams and such - that's changing, marginally. Though the video of the uber lawyer lately has been making the laps, to the point where that officer in question did get a promotion.

tedunangst• 3 years ago

How many agents and how heavily armed? People are saying he was raided by a militia, but the available details don't seem to support that conclusion.

dpedu• 3 years ago

By law, unsolicited merchandise received via mail is yours to keep. I wonder how this will play out in court, if the YouTuber chooses to go that route. I don't see any reason why WOTC wouldn't lose, and lose badly?

https://about.usps.com/publications/pub300a/pub300a_v04_revi...

rdl• 3 years ago

So many problems are avoided by just never answering the door (and figuring out some way to receive packages). If it's a uniformed police officer, "COME BACK WITH A WARRANT" or "CONTACT MY ATTORNEY AT X".

bastard_op• 3 years ago

Wow, so much for treating your biggest fans with any respect. Not like he stole them, it would have been interesting had he stood his ground to see what they did. Shame he didn't have video of the encounter like Afroman did when raided.

If I were a fan, this would have sobered me out of it immediately.

Now I wonder what happened to the guy selling Zelda Tears of the Kingdom two weeks early that "fell off the back of the truck". Nintendo probably read this and put these thugs on retainer for the next major release, if they don't already.

gnicholas• 3 years ago

I'd be curious to know what exactly these Pinkerton agents said, and if they flashed badges (as other commenters have suggested). My general rule is not to let anyone in who doesn't have a warrant, and I think that still works in light of this kind of tactic. But I hadn't considered the possibility that non-LEOs might fool me/my family into thinking they are LEOs, and that they might not be bound by the same rules regarding tricking someone into letting them enter their home.

alexander-wilms• 3 years ago

fuck kotaku

ilyt• 3 years ago

Well if anyone else was still wondering whether WotC is scum on earth...

magic_hamster• 3 years ago

Do not let anyone in your house unless it's a police officer with a warrant, and even then, verify their identity and the documents. You can easily do this by calling your police department. We have rights.

throw9away6• 3 years ago

Pinkertons are right there with nazis and kkk members for me. Nothing good comes from cooperating with them.

WelcomeShorty• 3 years ago

So the guy's a YouTuber, the biggest thing ever in his live happens and there is no actual footage of the incident?

Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

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