We don’t know enough about the Pornhub acquisition

https://every.to/napkin-math/we-don-t-know-enough-about-the-pornhub-sale

by codechicago277 • 3 years ago

54 69 3 years ago

herbst7• 3 years ago

You can not upload to pornhub and associated sites without a constent form. Every video is checked before it goes live.

I am not sure why so many journalists always miss this fact when they claim it's a bed for human trafficking and child pornography

Or am I missing something?

yieldcrv6• 3 years ago

I am not sure why so many journalists always miss this fact when they claim it's a bit bed for human trafficking and child pornography
Or am I missing something?

Seems you're missing that they used past tense in the article? specifically not present tense?

ralfd• 3 years ago

But it matters when the asset you are buying is Pornhub because — as we’ve covered — its policies impact sex trafficking globally.

That is equating Pornhub with sex trafficking.

pibechorro• 3 years ago

Its called puritan pandering for clicks.

b1c1jones4• 3 years ago

Being against exploitation is puritan?

game_the0ry2• 3 years ago

Indeed. The porn industry is quite serious about following the letter of the law, so it was strange that pornhub lost support from mastercard and visa when that NYT op ed came out.[1]

This antiporn movement is more about control and censorship than protecting children.

b1c1jones4• 3 years ago

Statistical evidence, please.

_trampeltier• 3 years ago

I'm pretty sure, it had something to do with Wirecard. They had been the payment processor from Pornhub. Just a the same time, when some parts of the old Wirecard got sold, Pornhub deleted a lot of stuff "because of the children".

slothtrop4• 3 years ago

The claim that it's a bed for human trafficking and child pornography is the reason they now require user verification and consent forms.

At the time it was a valid criticism, now it weirdly feels like misdirection or disingenuous puff piece because the seedy underbelly of porn streaming and piracy has probably shifted elsewhere.

herbst7• 3 years ago

I see that. But at this point in time PH as as ethical as it can get for porn creators and consumers. It's sad when we do not appreciate this fact and force others to follow but still blame it for the same old, now invalid, reasons

april2023• 3 years ago

Is it possible on their scale to verify that the consents are really voluntary?

herbst7• 3 years ago

I am not sure which problem you are going for but if they have porn of a person that didn't consent they can just get it taken down. Pretty sure PH doesn't hold the rights to the videos. The right holder (creator, star, ..) can have their content removed anytime.

AlecSchueler13• 3 years ago

This came about as a result of many years of profit from non-consensual intimate media and many lawsuits from victims.

Yes they seem to be doing everything above board now but victims and their allies have a right to voice their worries and hopefully have them assuaged.

yieldcrv6• 3 years ago

This sort of thing happens all the time in private transactions. But it has never happened in a case with one of the most important websites in the world! We should know more!

Based on what? You're not going to if a private company doesn't want you to and is structured correctly.

The only reason to act against such strong incentives is if you have something to hide.

Yes, like the natural persons involved, because that's the default state of private companies structured correctly. Just like they said in the interview quoted.

The victims harmed by Pornhub deserve assurances that the current owners will be better than the past abusers.

lol. punt your thinly veiled voyeurism to a third party. that's... rich.

pavlov2• 3 years ago

"Yes, like the natural persons involved, because that's the default state of private companies structured correctly."

Arguably it shouldn't be the default state, or even possible.

yieldcrv6• 3 years ago

Arguably

And what is that argument? Why are they not afforded privacy that you are afforded? Or does your argument apply to you too, in which case I'm even more interested in seeing this anti privacy argument.

AlecSchueler13• 3 years ago

The victims harmed by Pornhub deserve assurances that the current owners will be better than the past abusers.

Why is that not a reasonable position?

Pornhub moved to it's current position of requiring verification etc after years of allowing non-consensual intimate media to thrive on its platform and only after multiple legal cases brought against them by victims.

Of course a change in ownership raises questions about the future for victims and for their allies.

For a site that's still dubious of Microsoft after their business dealings 30 years ago it's amazing to see so many people jump to "it's their private business, not for us to speculate on" just because the company in question is a porno provider.

yieldcrv6• 3 years ago

it's amazing to see so many people jump to "it's their private business, not for us to speculate on" just because the company in question is a porno provider.

Can you elaborate on this criticism?

Its a private business, not for us to speculate on just because the company in question is a private business. Where did you get that its just because its a porno provider? Did you misword your own argument or are you incapable of seeing that you're the only one making an exception? There are words for this kind of projection, but I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

dotBen• 3 years ago

BenGPT summery: "Hyper rich individuals and/or foreign investment funds buy reasonably profitable 'sin' business and do so by forming a special purpose vehicle just for this transaction which hides their identity. Said owners elect not to register the business as an investment fund, which author notes is optional in Canada anyway. Occom's razor conclusion would be they do all of this because they don't want to be identified."

Ethical discussions about the operation of a pornographic website aside, I'm not clear what the issue or surprise here is?

ravenstine3• 3 years ago

Pornhub had over 2B visits last year and 100M+ daily active users

Is it just me or does that seem remarkably low? I wonder if "active users" only includes users with accounts. I'm sure plenty of people lurk such sites but never sign in.

AI deepfakes and Generative AI means that anyone can create custom porn for themselves.

Admittedly, and somewhat embarrassingly, this is something I looked into with all the AI hubub going on this year.

While it's interesting what Stable Diffusion is capable of in terms of generating images of naked people, it's not that impressive what it comes to creating something that can actually compete with what humans can currently create. Every example of AI-generated pr0n I've seen looks erotically generic and uninteresting. On top of that, the AI seems to still not understand what a nipple or vagina is actually supposed to look like. It can't even do video yet outside of blurry "flipbooks" of multiple prompts in succession. Though I have no doubt that AI will eventually shake things up, we are a ways off from AI making human-made porn obsolete.

To put the nail in the coffin, Netflix made a documentary about how Pornhub was the worst.

Well yeah, the problem with porn is it can't be (easily) used to push a narrative. Porn is hyper-reality. Porn doesn't pretend that people don't see race. Porn doesn't pretend that men and women aren't different, unless you're into that sort of thing. Porn isn't known for its intricate storytelling. Porn isn't pretentious. Porn doesn't pretend that penises are "gross." Porn doesn't pretend that human beings aren't animals that have irrational motivations. Porn is largely apolitical.

No wonder the mainstream wants it gone, despite being guilty of many of the same transgressions as sites like Pornhub. Nobody's gonna stop giving their money to Hollywood despite all the sexual abuse and child molestation.

slothtrop4• 3 years ago

Is it just me or does that seem remarkably low?

It seems high, after the fallout from the NYT piece. Last I had read, unverified (e.g. pirated) content was all removed, leaving mostly studios and community power users. Like YT, piracy is the reason it flourished. Most immediately flocked to rival streaming sites that as of yet have not received the same level of scrutiny.

AlecSchueler13• 3 years ago

They lost literally billions of impressions by removing the non-consensual stuff?

You're saying "e.g. pirated" but let's be real it's "e.g. Amateur porn where the women didn't know she'd be filmed/shared, upskirt videos, revenge porn, sleeping assault videos etc"

makeworld• 3 years ago

Porn is largely apolitical

Porn is practically the frontier of social politics.

ravenstine3• 3 years ago

Care to elaborate? I'm curious what you mean by this.

If you mean by the fact that gay and genderqueer porn have become more accessible, I'm not sure that's pushing an ideology rather than responding to a market demand (and society changing by other means).

Beaver1172• 3 years ago

I assume there's little reason to visit that site after they removed 90% of their content

AlecSchueler13• 3 years ago

You mean the non-consensual stuff is what made it worth visiting?

I've seen a tonne of comments on reddit complaining that they took "the good stuff" away.

somenameforme• 3 years ago

As for visits, you have to consider demographic splits. 50% of people are female who's viewing is going to be relatively minuscule, another x% are too young to be interested, another y% are going to be too old to be regularly interested, and so on. You get a surprisingly small slice of society. And now factor in the fact that there are about 8 zillion other sites. There's also the issue that when any country decides to ban porn, Pornhub almost always going to be target #1. For instance it's banned in India and China, so you're losing potentially billions of people from stuff like that.

AlecSchueler13• 3 years ago

people are female who's viewing is going to be relatively minuscule

Why do you assume that?

rainworld• 3 years ago

This “industry“ is and for the most part always has been a front for organized crime.

https://probablycancelledpod.libsyn.com/the-porno-mafia-mono...

jannw• 3 years ago

"I had one source who insisted that the capital came from Hong Kong but when I asked for more details he mostly insulted me for not being able to figure it out myself ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. "

China can cross-identify Pornhub "customers" against other state owned tech asset's datasets (e.g. tictoc) ... valuable leverage against identified individuals?