Show HN: Lunette – A word processor designed around writing, not formatting

by corwinstephen • 3 years ago

133 105 3 years ago

dtagames• 3 years ago

I'm curious but that's not much of an intro/demo.

Apologies, I've sort of been struggling with how to present the concept clearly and concisely. Here's an overview of where the idea came from: https://lunette.app/about

Basically, my wife and I both write, and we found ourselves bouncing around from app to app looking for something that felt good and like a place we could really be productive and creative but never found anything that felt quite right, both in terms of functionality and aesthetics. Products like Medium are subject to constantly changing business models and identities. Google Docs is cluttered and uninspiring. Notes apps probably came the closest... but this big realization was that writing is a process that's just one of many things you might do in any of those apps, and there are things that happen while writing prose that could be augmented if the app were specifically designed around that use-case.

As I mentioned in the about page, the first such discovery was that almost all writers I spoke to were doing the thing where they come up with ideas spontaneously and usually just type up those ideas at random places in the document, which makes a mess of everything. We set out to solve that problem as an MVP, but the broader goal is to continue to develop the app around the writer's use-case and make wrangling concepts into prose an easier process.

DoreenMichele3• 3 years ago

You should update the About page. Your comment here is a much, much better explanation of what you are trying to do and why.

Tossing out some suggestions:

Instead of: Traditional word processors are for formatting text. Lunette organizes your ideas and supports the writing process.

Try something more like:

Lunette: A Word Processor for writers. A space for ideation and composition, not just text formatting.

Write a bio for each of you. Do not link to your twitter profile and her..whatever that page is. Neither of them says "We are writers with experience writing." Neither of them sells the idea that you know what you are doing with this app.

For your About page, you should put the stuff about "husband and wife team ..." at the bottom. Lead with info about the app, not about the team.

Rewrite your last paragraph in your comment here to strip out all the personal stuff and make it more objective:

Writers come up with ideas spontaneously and usually just type up those ideas at random places in the document, which makes a mess of everything. The MVP seeks to solve that problem, but the broader goal is to continue to develop the app around the writer's use-case and make wrangling concepts into prose an easier process.

Then follow with some of the info found in your second paragraph above (minus attacks on other products -- and I suggest you drop talk of "constantly changing business models" because if this succeeds, you will face similar challenges):

If you find yourself bouncing around from app to app looking for something that feels good and like a place you can really be productive and creative but never find anything that feels quite right, try Lunette.

Lunette is a marriage of writing-process focused functionality and clean aesthetics. Writing is a process. Making notes is just one of many things you might do in an app and there are things that happen while writing prose that could be augmented if the app were specifically designed around that use-case.

Then at the bottom close with something about the team. I would probably leave out the fact that you are "husband and wife." I would position it more like "Stephen Corwin and Kristi Grassi are both writers frustrated with their inability to find an app with the features they need." and the names should, again, link to a bio on the site that highlights why you two are qualified to make this app and make it better than other writing apps.

You also need some explanation for the screenshot on your landing page. The screenshot does not tell me what it does. I have to guess and those guesses are somewhat informed by your above comment but not by anything actually on the site itself.

If it were me, I would likely take the screenshot, stick it in an editor and circle stuff in red or whatever and then add notes below it: "The section in the red oval on the right is blah blah blah."

Tell me what it does and why this helps me write.

Zurrrrr• 3 years ago

This is an interesting app/approach. I solved a similar issue by switching to LaTeX and TeXStudio. Being able to add any marker to the nav tree helps me be organized, and I can easily add in my notes as comments. With a good color scheme, it becomes very easy to organize and keep notes and encourage my writing, easily browsable, and can output a beautiful pdf with one button press.

SCLeo• 3 years ago

And what do we do with our ideas when they arise? Well, we scroll to the bottom of the document and jot them down, copy and paste them, rearrange them, and hope we'll remember to come back to them.

I write erotic novels as a hobby. I legit thought no one else does this (putting random unorganized ideas at the bottom of the document). I am genuinely pleased to know I am not the only one.

poisonborz• 3 years ago

You would need to better underline why this is a webapp. You say you needed a better word processor, but mention products like Medium (blogging platform) and Google Docs (an online word processor). Why not Typora, Obsidian, Zettlr? These are complex word processor apps that also focus minimalism. I don't know if you considered these when starting to develop, but if so, some comparison would be apt to why your app is an alternative (eg. "it's one click away").

jccalhoun• 3 years ago

I think you need a video or something or a demo page where people can try it out without any log in. I also think the about page needs to explain takes ideation and composition and lets them work together. It kind of sounds like Scrivener or Manuskript?

Kiro• 3 years ago

What's the struggle? Just remove the sign up and send people straight into the app.

at_a_remove• 3 years ago

Free advice, feel free to reject it as the trash four a.m. writing it is: I want you and your wife to write two sample stories using each of your unique voices. I want you to snapshot your writing process in respect to the various features of your product. I then want you to lay that out as actual examples of what real people do with your product and its relevant features.

kristigrassi• 3 years ago

We admittedly haven't put much effort into the this yet because we're genuinely curious about people's unbiased reactions to it since it's an mvp. This reaction in itself is great feedback though :)

corwinstephen19• 3 years ago

BTW ping me for a coupon code to make it free if you want to actually use it!

Edit: Forgot no DMs on HN. Use code "beta"!

tzarko2• 3 years ago

How should we get in touch? I’m very curious about this, would love to get the chance to try it for a while.

corwinstephen19• 3 years ago

Forgot HN doesn't have a DM feature. Just use code "beta"!

jmtucu• 3 years ago

I'll love to use it for my books!

corwinstephen19• 3 years ago

Awesome! You can use 'beta' as a coupon code to make it free. Thank you for checking it out!

LegitShady3• 3 years ago

Is it online only? Can I install a local copy that doesn't need to check in online? Does data get stored on your servers? Do you have a list of features and do you approach the featureset of scrivener?

This website is too mysterious for me.

hammyhavoc• 3 years ago

Yes, wondering about this too. Putting unpublished ideas onto a third-party server? That's a lot of trust to place in a complete stranger.

corwinstephen19• 3 years ago

It's currently online only, but only because we haven't gotten that far yet, definitely want to make a native app that's fully local.

majou• 3 years ago

There seems to be a typo on the landing screenshot: lunettee instead of lunette.

Looks neat tho.

corwinstephen19• 3 years ago

Oh snap, good catch. Thank you!

eyelidlessness3• 3 years ago

I think this is cool, and it might even scratch a writing itch I have with literally just taking notes. Your explanation of what motivated building this sounds a lot more like my experience with note taking than writing any other kind of prose.

One nit about the site I haven’t seen addressed yet: overall it’s pretty good on mobile (besides the front page screenshot being too tiny to understand; addressing that is a whole can of worms, but…) the header is breaking the signup button even on my very large phone, and stuff vertical alignment feels weird. You could fix the former, but I’d consider dropping “for free” (it’s a general assumption for most people walking up to a site unless they feel like they’re getting a hard sell) and adjusting styles to fit the content on one line. Definitely look at the vertical alignment though, because it’s gonna look weird regardless of wrapping.

corwinstephen19• 3 years ago

Glad to hear it! And thank you for the feedback. Mobile is a whole can of worms I have no idea how I'm going to tackle yet, but it's certainly part of the plan.

As for the "for free" part, that's funny, because I had it the way you're suggesting originally but changed it to this based on someone else's feedback :P

eyelidlessness3• 3 years ago

I think generally the market for productive apps not geared towards enterprise has moved towards free (to try/start anyway) as the baseline assumption, with either an explicit pricing link or recognizable subscription implications (edit: or obvious app store links, natch). If anything explicit “for free” wording is a warning sign to me that something about the revenue model might be deceptive.

As far as mobile, I’d be happy to sling a few CSS suggestions your way for what stood out to me on first visit if you want!

moron4hire• 3 years ago

Yes, a word processing app like MS Word is technically more suitable for typesetting than it is for writing. No, that's not a major problem.

I tried building a similar project some 10 years ago, when "Zen writing tools" were all the rage.

Nobody wanted to pay for it. It wasn't general purpose enough to be usable by the general public. And novelists (who I was targeting) are poor and cheap. 90% of people who say they are "working on a novel" will never finish it to ever even try to sell it. Of those that do finish, 90% of them won't make more than pocket change. For the weirdos who finish and make significant sales, the app they used to write was never a significant problem for them. They usually have an anachronistic approach that has nothing to do with productivity and everything to do with personal taste and comfort (George R. R. Martin famously uses WordStar 4.0 on an MS-DOS system).

If you want to make an app for writers, don't make it around the writing process. What aspiring authors need, first and foremost, is training on how to finish a manuacript. After that, everything else is a minor annoyance in comparison. But some of the most common areas where people seem to drop the ball so close to the goal line are: not having a good editor, screwing up the typesetting, having dorky cover art, and thinking posting on Twitter once a week counts as marketing.

The 90% of dreamers don't have what it takes and they know it. They don't even invest their time, so they're certainly not going to invest their money. Tackle trying to convert more of the 10% of finishers into sellers. That might involve a writing tool as a hook to get people in, but the salable part of the app will probably never be the writing process itself.

LegitShady3• 3 years ago

There are successful products who are in this space - scrivener, for example. None of the things you talk about what authors needs are in the realm of app space, they're business problems.

The question is what did your app offer that scrivener didn't? What does this app offer that scrivener doesn't? I can't even tell if this Lunette is a web app or has an installable version, subscription, etc.

The problems you're talking about - marketing, front cover, typesetting - those don't really matter until you have at least a draft written, and probably not even then. A writing focused word processor isn't supposed to solve those problems, and once you have a manuscript the issues are solved by hiring an experienced editor (except the marketing which not everyone can do).

The writing part of the app is where people will spend the overwhelming majority of their time, and intruding on it trying to convert them to buying your other services is likely to chase them to scrivener or some other competitor. You're just trying to solve writing unrelated problems with an app that is marketed towards new writers that dont have those problems in front of them, and everyone with money can solve it without you.

kevin_thibedeau• 3 years ago

Word was less WYSIWYG before the ribbon. The default "Normal" layout elided a bunch of rendering like headers and footers and could lazily repaginate unlike Print Layout mode which is now the default. "Normal" is now "Draft" mode with a few enhancements. Just use MS Word in Draft and don't use manual formatting.

sergiomattei• 3 years ago

iA Writer is an app that fills this niche, and does it wonderfully. People justify spending hundreds online for their entire app suite because of the simplicity of this software.

pyinstallwoes• 3 years ago

This is like https://ia.net/writer (my favorite).

corwinstephen19• 3 years ago

Interesting, I never came across this one in my search. I'm gonna give it a try, I'm curious to see how it compares.

I did try out a couple other editors that leaned on markdown though with mixed results.

One thing that stands out to me in particular with iA is the way they've implemented (at least based on the homepage video) note linking. That click-through implementation forces you to leave your document, which is something we explicitly didn't want, since typically what you're doing is scanning through your notes and your document simultaneously while you work out how everything fits together.

ordinaryradical• 3 years ago

As someone who writes daily (primarily novels), I can’t say this has been an issue for me but I may not yet understand your approach. The site does not make it clear what would be different about note taking in your system.

Things I like about iA Writer and are holding me back from your approach is

- don’t quite understand the differentiation you’re describing here, not in the web copy either

- where do my files live? Unclear with your solution, and I need full ownership of my data to feel comfortable

- business model: iA is a one-time payment for cloud syncing out of the box, this looks like you’re angling for a subscription but what justifies that value?

I don’t like to criticize prematurely, but from someone who’s looked at a ton of tools in this space it’s not yet clear to me what you’re delivering that would get me to switch. Hopefully this is helpful criticism. Good luck!

LegitShady3• 3 years ago

A few interesting ideas in there, and they're up front about platform and costs.

frosted-flakes• 3 years ago

One huge downside of iA Writer (at least on Android) is the inability to change the font. It's permanently set to a rather ugly and completely unsuitable monospaced font that resembles Courier New. This among all other features is what prevents me from using it.

kstrauser2• 3 years ago

I find that one of its strengths. I can’t be tempted to waste time fiddling with the content’s appearance when it’s going to be rendered later in a separate step anyway.

On Apple devices, you can choose from 3 fonts from the same family, and that’s it. After a short while they tend to disappear into the background while I focus on making words good.

dsr_2• 3 years ago

Open source? Closed? Web-app only? Locally installable? Privacy policy? Pricing?

Would you be happier if it made you money or if a community helped you build it?

corwinstephen19• 3 years ago

If I'm being perfectly honest, it never even occurred to me to consider the open source route. I'm not opposed to open source at all--I've done in the past--but one issue could be that I might loose the ability to be highly opinionated about the evolution of the product, and I think in this space where there are already a ton of "do a lot of things halfway decently" products, being opinionated about what Lunette is and is not could be key to its success.

internetter• 3 years ago

How does open source mean loosing any of that? You don't need to accept everyone's stuff, or even anyone's.

lelanthran2• 3 years ago

but one issue could be that I might loose the ability to be highly opinionated about the evolution of the product

I hate to be that person, but you're pitching an app for authors, developed by yourself who is a self-described author, and you're mixing up 'loose' and 'lose' :-(

In any other context, this wouldn't matter, and with actual typos it wouldn't matter, but in this context with this particular word, it does reflect negatively.

I think in this space where there are already a ton of "do a lot of things halfway decently" products, being opinionated about what Lunette is and is not could be key to its success.

You're quite correct. Having a narrow focus on the goal is better than trying to be all things to all people, otherwise sooner or later you're going to be fielding requests from people who used it to write the business docs and need non-book related features.

I am also doing something similar (am not really an author, made a few hundred dollars with self-published books and short stories a decade ago and then moved on), and I have an even narrower focus than you do.

starkparker• 3 years ago

No offline editing is a deal-breaker, even for a free tool.

justajot• 3 years ago

Agreed.

donio• 3 years ago

The upside is that you can use the "Cloud ate my homework" excuse when you don't finish your work in time.

Would be nice though if somebody finally created an application that let you write plain text files locally on your computer. It could be called Text Manipulator or Text Arranger or something like that.

toomanydoubts• 3 years ago

I think Writing Editor sounds about right.

anotheraccount9• 3 years ago

Uploads document as .docx (only?)

corwinstephen19• 3 years ago

Planning on adding more here! What formats do you prefer?

quercusa• 3 years ago

This seems to be aimed at Scrivener's niche. What advantages do you offer?

https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener/overview

riidom• 3 years ago

Scrivener can do a lot more though. Reminds me more of Typora.

arjvik• 3 years ago

Exactly, this is gunning for Typora's aesthetic combined with an end goal of doing what Scrivener does

prox3• 3 years ago

Scrivener is insanely versatile in what it can do. It’s an amazing piece of software. The only thing is that UX, while good, can at times feel a bit clunky in an old-school way.

GoofballJones• 3 years ago

Long-time Scrivener user here. The main thing that annoys me is that it's sporadically updated.

jamescampbell• 3 years ago

I thought Scrivener as well. Happy customer for a long time.

fluxinflex5• 3 years ago

I find Scapple[1] more interesting since it comes close to what I'm playing around with. I've started using Node-RED[2] as a mind-map for my ideas and thoughts. I've created custom nodes to provide a categorization for ideas, thoughts, observations, inspiration etc. As I a see fit I link nodes together. The end result is a chaotic mind-map which I call a writermap since the entire mind-map is executable. Between any two points in the mind-map I can create a document with all the paths that link those two points. The document is just a concatenation of all the nodes visited along the way.

Taking this a step further, I thought about creating a global mind-map whereby everyone contributes their mind-maps into interconnected open mind-map. I had this idea because I realised that I had mapped my information bubble in creating my mind-map. But how do I get out of my information bubble? Hence the idea of an open mind-map[2] to navigate through other peoples mind-maps out of my information bubble.

[1]=https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scapple/overview

[2]=https://nodered.org/

[3]=https://millieons.org/w/mapping-information-bubbles

prox3• 3 years ago

Interesting idea of the open mind map. I was wondering if information bubble, while accessible, is the right term. But it suffices in terms of explanation.

Isn’t Wikipedia already the mind map of humanity in a way? Or is your project more from an individual standpoint?

By the by, Obsidian recently added a canvas to mind map notes and nodes. Maybe the code can be helpful for your project.

paultopia• 3 years ago

Just FYI, at least on the mobile version of the website there doesn't seem to be any way outside of signing up to tell what it actually does.

ipcress_file• 3 years ago

Feature suggestion: it would be good to have the option to have a note "stick" to a point in the document. I know that that's not always what people would want, but I could really see it being useful in certain circumstances.

mlok• 3 years ago

Dark mode is missing. Here's a guide to implement it properly : https://ryanfeigenbaum.com/dark-mode/

corwinstephen19• 3 years ago

Thanks! It's on the roadmap!

ericls• 3 years ago

No Privacy policy on sign up...

corwinstephen19• 3 years ago

You're right, I gotta get that up asap!

andai2• 3 years ago

It is a web app, every keystroke is transmitted to someone else's computer.

thangalin2• 3 years ago

KeenWrite, my free and open-source (R) Markdown editor, has a fair amount of overlap with Lunette. From the other thread comments, here are a few items that KeenWrite has:

* Offline editing

* Dark mode

* Manuscript theme

* Separates content from presentation

* Automatically curls straight quotes

Here's a tutorial showing how themes (and variables) work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QpX70O5S30

I've been dog-fooding the editor for almost eight years to help me write a sci-fi novel. (Alpha readers wanted!)

corwinstephen19• 3 years ago

This is cool!

I think my favorite part about doing this Show HN is all the interesting products I'm discovering, and seeing all the different ways people approach this space and this problem.

valanha• 3 years ago

I am quite the avid sci-fi reader. I have never been an alpha reader, and I am intrigued at the prospect. What does it entail?

thangalin2• 3 years ago

Lob me an email, details in my profile.

tpoacher• 3 years ago

My favourite word processor is html.

Being serious here, not even trolling. I've gone through many things, and always come back to writing mostly raw html for my own needs. Occasionally I write a small bash script to automate some stuff, bit that's about it.

testHNac• 3 years ago

"We figure if the writing process is fundamentally comprised of two separate parts--ideation and composition--then a word processor designed for writing needs a place for both."

There is also Inspiration before these two. Where I collect myriad info, snippets etc and then when things fall into place ( Ideating ) , I start writing ( Composition ).

I recently moved to Obsidian. I like the feel of it for writing, and it seems quite flexible to adapt it to my style.

Check it out, can give you some feature ideas.

kstrauser2• 3 years ago

On that note, a pet peeve: “comprise” is nearly the same as “consist of” (source Strunk & White). That should be:

writing process comprises two two separate parts

Relatedly, will Lunette integrate a grammar checker?

helsinkiandrew• 3 years ago

I’m not sure I understand why someone wouldn’t use the built in text editor that probably comes with their computer/tablet/phone over using a web page/app - Note Pad, Notes etc?

avx56• 3 years ago

Looks neat!

vinaypai• 3 years ago

I'm sorry but the home page is a weird screenshot of disjointed paragraphs that tells me nothing about how your product "supports the writing process". I'm not even sure what the text being edited is from that page.

To be clear, I find the pitch appealing, but the product ???.

eviks3• 3 years ago

For help please email

keyle• 3 years ago

Would you prefer a chatbot?

fluxinflex5• 3 years ago

From reading the about[0] page, it seems to be word processing application combined with post-it notes to organise ideas while writing.

[0]=https://lunette.app/about

tokinonagare• 3 years ago

I don't understand it either: the screenshot is from a macOS app yet there is no direct or Mac app store download link. Then there are login and register buttons while the last thing I want from a text editor is to have to make an online account.

aizyuval• 3 years ago

I’m on mobile. Seems cool though I’d love to see something more than words..

tony-allan• 3 years ago

I was delighted to see that the document understands Markdown (for the formatting that you allow)!

It recognised URL's but they a not clickable. Nice to have clickable links.

crisp• 3 years ago

Thought to drop by and mention that you may want to pivot on the name as Lunette is a menstrual cup brand: https://www.lunette.com/

Good luck on the development!

jyriand• 3 years ago

Reminds me of https://essay.app/

When I opened the app, I instantly started writing -- and that is good. I already have a half of an essay. Didn't use the notes feature, though -- I think it doesn't work in shorter writings, but is essential in long-form.

I have been writing with paper index cards for a while now. I think using paper cards is still superior: you can arrange them in any pattern you want. Many apps try to emulate the "solitaire" side of writing, but I haven't found anything comparable to analog, yet.

hellofelicia• 3 years ago

Just wondering, are you aware of a pretty big brand of menstrual products that goes by the same name?

corwinstephen19• 3 years ago

Hey everyone, I just wanted to say thank you for all the feedback. I'm slowly working my way through everything and finding it all extremely helpful. I'll make sure to document the changes that have been made in response to this discussion.

As an aside, I realized when I logged into this account to post that I created my Hackernews account over a decade ago, and scrolling through my post history and coming across the multiple Show HN news posts I've done throughout that time, thinking about the successes and failures I've had with those old projects, and realizing that this community has been here the whole damn time, being as generous and constructive and open-minded as it ever was... that's really cool.

Thank you everyone for being part of one of the best communities on the entire internet. Y'all are too good.

everythingabili• 3 years ago

The text is bloody almost invisible which is so bloody annoying. A blacker font? Or a better or bigger one perhaps? Or is it just the colour? The notes are not linked to the text either... (which may or may not be a good idea).

Show HN: Lunette – A word processor designed around writing, not formatting

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