[EXPERIMENT] I attached a file to a tweet

by botolo • 15 years ago

43 55 15 years ago

Natsu• 15 years ago

Why not just tweet magnet links instead? Surely that's better than killing Twitter with base64 encoded files? Especially images where you already have twitpic and the like.

It's an interesting idea, but I don't see what you could do with it that you can't already do better with other services.

botolo5• 15 years ago

The difference would be that files would be hosted by Twitter directly and would not use third parties' services.

jdwhit2• 15 years ago

Would it be easy for you to encode the same information as a png image and post that using twitpic? What would the resultant image look like?

pash• 15 years ago

The author's motivation is to make an anti-censorship statement, not to provide an easy means of sharing files:

> [Piracy] has always existed and I believe it will always exist. ... Content providers and copyright holders should just acknowledge this and try to find a way to revolutionize the idea of content distribution and its business model.

This seems to me to be a good way to remind people (or introduce them to the idea) that all information on the Internet, whether political speech, a copy of The Origin of Species, mindless Twitter blather, or copyrighted files, is in the end the same stuff, just a bunch of ones and zeroes.

Once you've acknowledged that fact, it's a short step to realizing that you cannot disrupt piracy through technical means without also disrupting communication essential to a free society. I think that's what the author's getting at.

botolo5• 15 years ago

You totally got the point of my post and my experiment! I created the experiment after reading one of my friends' reaction to the Filesonic decision about stopping file sharing. He posted on his Facebook account that this was the end of piracy. But as Pash correctly states, as long as content is digital, it's just a bunch of ones and zeroes and the usenet experience teaches us that any file could be easily translated in words and posted anywhere, including blogging platforms.

Using Twitter was just a provocative way of analyzing the issue, given that the experiment was deeply interesting also under the light of DMCA, as another user suggested. I was thinking what would happen if people started "infesting" legit websites such as Twitter or other blogging platforms with copyright protected content under the form of Mime64 messages or using any other encoding method which translates a file in text. While posting a link to a copyright protected file would justify a DMCA takedown notice, the problem would be bigger if the file would be hosted (under the form of Mime64 tweets) by the blogging platform itself.

Let's make it even more complex. What if tweets or blog posts would be posted randomly (not just by one user) and links to all these tweets or posts would be collected in a small document, something similar to a .nzb file? Could Twitter or any other blogging platform refuse a DMCA takedown notice for messages which are harmless by themselves and which are a violation of a copyrighted work only if collected together following the list of files contained in the .nzb-look-a-like file (which may be hosted somewhere else)? This would be a general counsel's nightmare.

In conclusion, the fight against piracy is the classic mouse-cat fight...piracy will never die and the only way to bypass this is to come up with a new business model for content providers and copyright holders.

I know that Paul Graham recently launched the idea of "killing Hollywood" by creating a new business model for content distribution. I think this idea should even be broader and should be about "how to kill piracy" by removing the fundamentals of pirates (which is, I think, sharing, avoid paying premium prices, etc.) by creating a new business model or method for content delivery and fee collection for content utilization.

Thanks everyone for the great comments that you posted so far.

jerrya2• 15 years ago

Long before there was dropbox, I used to claim my backup solution was to use steganography and place my data inside porn pictures that I would upload.

Then I could just use google to find my backups distributed all across the net.

You might be looking at my 2007 Quicken files even now!

joering1• 15 years ago

how?

jerrya2• 15 years ago

You could tar up your backup files.

Download a bunch of porn, maybe of Debbie Reynolds, America's sweetheart.

Use tools like these: http://www.jjtc.com/Security/stegtools.htm to distribute your backup files throughout the porn.

Visit a porn uploading site and upload your files.

Wait for others to download, torrent, repost them.

....

Hey I lost a file? Well, let's just google Debbie Reynolds topless. Woohoo! There's my quicken files!

See this article in the wiki suggesting spammers, terrorists, the fbi do just that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography#Alleged_use_by_te...

"Lately, al-Qaeda operatives have been sending hundreds of encrypted messages that have been hidden in files on digital photographs on the auction site eBay.com

I wish I had a patent on this idea from way back when, if so, I could have sued Al Qaeda out of existence.

nsmartt2• 15 years ago

I have no idea if this guy is serious, (EDIT: I submitted this before I saw his response) but it's entirely possible to embed data in JPEG files via base64 + modifying exif data. It isn't really viable for large files, however, unless vastly distributed. Perl:

  use Image::img;

  my $img = new Image::img;

  $img->ExtractInfo('image.jpg');
  #$img->SetNewValue("UserComment", $yourdata);
  #$img->SetNewValue("Comment", $yourdata);
  $img->WriteInfo('image.jpg');

funkah• 15 years ago

Considering the medium, couldn't the author just have pasted the base-64 encoded data on pastebin?

Animus72• 15 years ago

I could be wrong, but I thing the idea is that Twitter is immune to censorship, so no matter what sites get taken down, file sharing can live on in 300 baud. Or something.

...Yeah, I don't really get it either.

ertdfgcb• 15 years ago

Well, it does say "experiment". But I think the point is summed up in this line: "I believe that piracy will always exist". The OP is showing that data is so malleable that no matter how many Megauploads you take down, there will always be a way to share it, which seems obvious to us at HN, but to a layman this might be a little more eye-opening. Or maybe he was just fucking around over the weekend and wanted to find the most ridiculous possible way to send data.

cyanbane3• 15 years ago

One interesting thing about this is the question of what is a file. Depending upon how Twitter stores a tweet, does a file actually exist at their location, or only a stream of information? Under current DMCA what would they be asked to remove X number of tweets in a row? If decoded and a copyright holder (provided there is one) notices, does he have to submit 155 claims/takedown notices? What if that information is broken up, chunked and some agreed upon pattern is used ie every 3rd tweet is garbage etc?

Animus72• 15 years ago

This seems to kind of tread into the territory of DeCSS haikus [1]; if I can speak (tweet) the file, isn't that expression of my rights to free speech?

[1] http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/decss-haiku.txt

cyanbane3• 15 years ago

Yup. I remember when DeCSS hit they had shirts printed up with the code on the back. I know this was a small file the OP sent, but at what point is the medium the moved to a context in which it is free speech? Has twitter reached that point? Are they an immovable third party communications medium?

icebraining8• 15 years ago

if I can speak (tweet) the file, isn't that expression of my rights to free speech?

Philosophically? Possibly. Legally? No, since public performances of literary works are speech too and they're still protected by copyright.

beej71• 15 years ago

It's a little different, since the DeCSS code wasn't copyrighted.

Your right to redistribute other people's copyrighted data is severely limited by law. But if something's not copyrighted, and then They say you can't redistribute it, well, then we have something more like DeCSS.

baddox3• 15 years ago

The legal distinction must solely rest on intention. As you've hinted at, every digital work is just an integer. Copyright protection of digital works implies that some integers are illegal to copy and distribute.

wlievens• 15 years ago

Indeed. There are other integers that are illegal for other reasons. For instance, the integer that encodes the string text of your email to a hired assassin.

igul222• 15 years ago

I really don't understand what the author is trying to prove here. Countless sites let people upload and share free-form information (a few that come to mind: Dropbox, Gmail, Facebook) in ways that would be much easier for pirates to use than Twitter, and none of them are going to get shut down any time soon.

Yes, shutting down Megaupload and its kin isn't going to stop piracy. But I don't think that was ever the goal. As long as it reduces piracy by some measurable amount, which I think it will, then the censors will have succeeded.

botolo5• 15 years ago

I don't think this action will slow down piracy. The average user don't even know what's the difference between Megaupload or other cyberlocker websites. The user just (I guess) types what he wants on Google and gets some website with links to these cyberlockers.

This act, on the contrary, could help induce other websites to correct their conduct or could help induce potential developers to create such cyberlockers.

bkirwi• 15 years ago

Some numbers on this:

A standard-quality .avi is about 800MB. Base64 provides 6 bits of information per character, so that movie translates into ~8M tweets. Twitter seems to limit users to 1k messages per day,[0] so that movie would take about 22 years to upload.

[0] https://support.twitter.com/articles/15364-about-twitter-lim...

icebraining8• 15 years ago

You could greatly reduce the number of tweets by using an encoding that took advantage of the full Unicode spectrum, as opposed to Base64 which just uses the ASCII set.

botolo5• 15 years ago

This is a very good point. Of course, as I said I am not a coder and I am far from being an expert in characters' spectrum. My experiment was just an experiment :-)

ZenPsycho3• 15 years ago

wouldn't it be easier to just stick http:// in front of a chunk of data and let the twitter url shortener take care of it for you?

ElbertF• 15 years ago

MapReduce! Use millions of Twitter accounts.

sachleen• 15 years ago

I can't find it but I remember something that sent messages like this over Facebook chat and then, on the other end, the software pieced it all together to show the image that was transferred. Anyone else remember this? It was a video so it might be on YouTube.

papaver• 15 years ago

The question in the end is who is responsible for the 'file.' MegaUpload was shutdown because they are being targeted as the responsible party. Most sites like YouTube and others have convinced the necessary parties that they are not responsible.

Once a file is broken down into multiple parts and scattered throughout, can you be held responsible for hosting parts of files? how large does the 'part' have to be to be held responsible? what happens if a file is split into parts and posted on pastebin + github + blogs and a trackers are used to manage and build the files again?

The only thing taking down megaupload will do is create new means to allow sharing to occur.

mrleinad• 15 years ago

The only thing taking down megaupload will do is create new means to allow sharing to occur.

And I´m really looking forward to them to arrive.

wmf• 15 years ago

Once a file is broken down into multiple parts and scattered throughout, can you be held responsible for hosting parts of files?

Yes, because each part has the same color as the original. http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23

how large does the 'part' have to be to be held responsible?

It doesn't matter. If the original is infringing, every bit in it is also infringing.

what happens if a file is split into parts and posted on pastebin + github + blogs and a trackers are used to manage and build the files again?

Also doesn't matter.

anonymoushn• 15 years ago

It doesn't matter. If the original is infringing, every bit in it is also infringing.

The following was pasted from an mp3 of Bangs by They Might Be Giants, rather than typed:

This is against the law and I should go to gaol.

aed• 15 years ago

One of the more interesting chapters in the Steve Jobs book discusses the time when Jobs finally convinced the recording industry that piracy wasn't necessarily a problem because people want free stuff (though that is a portion of it) but that it was simply easier than the alternatives. (In the case of the music industry at the time, every label had their own solution and they were all a pain to use.)

This experiment (and other humorous examples like this: http://datenform.de/blog/dead-drops-preview) displays the complexity of trying to prevent piracy by fighting it. If a critical mass of people want something and there isn't a convenient way to get it, alternatives will arise.

Life... er... pirates will always find a way.

grusk• 15 years ago

Comment on publishing platform, not content: Instead of using pastebin.com, use http://pen.io (for example PAGENAME.pen.io -- no account required, and you can edit if you have the password to the page, however you can't format the text) or http://hackpad.com (account registration is quick and you can format your text).

waffle_ss• 15 years ago

Why limit yourself to Base64? Twitter supports Unicode quite well. The 140 character limit is actually counted using normalized Unicode code points[1].

[1] https://dev.twitter.com/docs/counting-characters

Skywing• 15 years ago

To this extent, why not just turn twitter into a torrent tracker? tweet out something like: <torrent id> + <seeder information>. You could then just perform a tweet search for that torrent id, and you'd get all the seeders in return.

icebraining8• 15 years ago

There's no real advantage in that: if you can use bittorrent, you can use DHT too.

This experiment shows that unlawful file sharing would still be possible even if the Internet connections were restricted to accessing only popular websites, as long as they allow any kind of user content to be posted.

Genbox2• 15 years ago

Tweet #91 is an error from Excel. I was going to combine the messages into the image, but I can't without the full base64 stream.

botolo5• 15 years ago

Ops, sorry about that! This is the missing tweet: +WjH/aGaR2ZyNxHHQCgALlpcscmpdvHaolA381MAcfxflQB6w/w48T6mslwuk3UiIQrNEhJz6Y9a5PUPBup2EzI8ZRweY5BhhX9EPh39lCey8NRtCbZZjHkfaLcGVS3XJ6E/UVF4n/Y4

Genbox2• 15 years ago

With some regular expression magic I extracted the data from Twitter, however, the data was in the wrong order. With this command in Linux, I reversed the order and decoded the data:

tac twitData.txt | base64 -d -i > image.jpg

I've uploaded the image here:

http://iqsecur.blogspot.com/2012/01/sending-files-using-twit...

However, it seems there is an error in the image, I'm not sure if it is the process itself or the image actually has an error. A reverse search resulted in 0 results, so I'm inclined to believe the former.

garethsprice• 15 years ago

The technique of splitting files into many base64-encoded chunks was popular on Usenet in the 90s (another 7-bit platform with message size limits).

This was always the problem there too - 144 parts, 3 of which were missing/corrupt and the entire transfer was rendered useless.

Terretta• 15 years ago

In operation, a user will select a set of files from which the redundant data is to be made. These are known as input files and the set of them is known as the recovery set. The user will provide these to a program which generates file(s) that match the specification in this document. The program is known as a PAR 2.0 Client or client for short, and the generated files are known as PAR 2.0 files or PAR files. If the files in the recovery set ever get damaged (e.g. when they are transmitted or stored on a faulty disk) the client can read the damaged input files, read the (possibly damaged) PAR files, and regenerate the original input files. Of course, not all damages can be repaired, but many can.

The redundant data in the PAR files is computed using Reed-Solomon codes. These codes can take a set of equal-sized blocks of data and produce a number of same-sized recovery blocks. Then, given a subset of original data blocks and some recovery block, it is possible to reproduce the original data blocks. Reed-Solomon codes can do this recovery as long as the number of missing data blocks does not out number the recovery blocks.

http://www.par2.net/par2spec.php

[EXPERIMENT] I attached a file to a tweet

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