Untraceable 3D-printed guns on the rise in Canada

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/3d-printed-guns-canada-increase-1.6708049

by Teever • 4 years ago

44 150 4 years ago

cbc.ca

lampshades• 4 years ago

Based. Hopefully they keep rising.

olliecornelia• 4 years ago

Based https://emojipedia.org/nerd-face/

deathofmurat• 4 years ago

-- refresher on the guidelines - Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Edit out swipes. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. -- https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

nickpinkston• 4 years ago

Interestingly, the guns keep getting easier to make at home, but the ammo is still too challenging, as handmade powder and primers are really unreliable / dangerous.

Of course lots of people made ammo at home using off the shelf components, but if you have access to primers, powder, etc. you'd probably just smuggle the bullets themselves.

Like Chris Rock said: "We need bullet control" - ie it's actually harder to make ammo than the guns themselves.

HideousKojima• 4 years ago

Blackpowder is dead simple to make yourself. Makes cycling semi-autos harder/less reliable and less powerful, and mesns a lot more cleaning, but if "bullet control" succeeded in the US I think we'd see a mass switch to blackpowder and electrical ignition replacing primers.

notch656c9• 4 years ago

Home-made black powder cartridges aren't too bad. The caps are hardest to make but easy enough to hide as they are really fucking small and you only need 6 to fill a black powder revolver. A black powder revolver legit is good enough for self defense and almost as useful as a modern revolver if you maintain the load everyday. Also a good 'felon carry' as black powder revolvers are unregulated federally in US.

Also little known but fun fact. Flintlocks aren't considered guns in Canada. You can buy the flintlock, and make the powder all without any scrutiny.

piyh2• 4 years ago

Flintlocks aren't firearms in the us either. A felon can legally own them.

MisterTea• 4 years ago

A guy I used to work with came from a South American country where shotgun shells and ammo were at a premium, among other goods, which were common here in the USA. He setup a smuggling operation that was half legal: he put shot gun shell and bullet parts like casings, primers, and so on and hide them inside of appliances he was legitimately exporting second hand.

He wound up making enough money to quit and run that operation full time. Haven't spoken to him in years though.

anonporridge2• 4 years ago

The nature of something that has an inelastic demand, like guns or drugs (for very different reasons) is that by increasing the scope of regulated exchange or outright bans, you just create pressure for creativity and innovation to solve the problem that it's "too hard to make at home".

Yes, regulating ammo will make it harder for the average person to access.

But, it will also drastically increase the amount of people experimenting with making powder at home and/or develop novel solutions to weapons making that are even harder to control, like very high power air rifles or electrically driven railguns.

The pressure for this kind of innovation currently doesn't really exist, because ammunition is readily accessible. If we want to start regulating it, we have to acknowledge that we may be creating pressure to develop a future where alternative solutions that can't be easily controlled have flooded the black market.

Ultimately, bullet control is the same problem as gun control. It's treating a symptom rather than the disease. Since the symptom of gun violence is not an existential threat to our society, it absolutely seems like a waste of effort and political capital that should instead be targeted at the root reason for eruptions of deadly violence, whatever the tools.

notch656c9• 4 years ago

you just create pressure for creativity and innovation to solve the problem that it's "too hard to make at home".

As shown by "what about ammo" guide by IvanTheTroll et al, by which europeans are producing 9mm ammo economically at scale with completely unregulated components. Europeans trivially have a gun and full magazines of modern ammo within a couple weeks never leaving the Schengen area and without any black market interaction nor permits/licenses.

hnlmorg• 4 years ago

The goal of gun control (et al) isn’t to eradicate the problem entirely but rather to reduce its effects substantially by making it harder.

This has been proven a successful approach in a multitude of countries.

Now I’m not disagreeing that you also need to solve the other side of the problem but it’s not an either / or scenario. You can tackle the problem from both sides.

fwungy• 4 years ago

It will just come in through the open border like all sorts of other things now do.

lazide3• 4 years ago

FYI, it isn’t actually harder to make ammo than the gun. I have a decent amount of experience reloading and machining (including machining parts that could easily be guns, but weren’t). I also have quite a bit of experience with muzzle loading/black powder, etc.

It’s just not something that is currently optimized to make in an improvised way, because ammo is normally the easy, bulk, part. It does require a decent amount of expertise, and ability to pay attention to detail though.

If someone was so motivated, metal slugs + compressed gas can make a far more than adequate weapon (semi-auto too!), and would 3D print quite nicely. If someone was going to go that way, 3D printing a suppressor would be trivial too.

And those slugs could be easily cast in any kitchen using commonly available materials (zinc, for instance, if lead was controlled).

The underlying reason this isn’t really a problem is due to motive, economics/payback, etc.

It’s solidly in the ‘but why?’ category for pretty much everyone, but if someone had a reason, I bet they could make a 3D printable design with a couple pages of directions and almost anyone could do it.

The local scuba shop would have quite the run on pony bottles though!

908B64B1973• 4 years ago

Wait until they discover what can be done with 50's machine shop.

It's almost as if the guns themselves aren't the problem; it's the crimes committed with these that are.

m-p-3• 4 years ago

Restrictions on firearms availability does reduce the amount of gun-related injuries or deaths though

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6283012/#s4titl...

A variety of longitudinal studies describe the association between the simultaneous implementation of laws targeting multiple elements of regulations and firearm deaths. Despite their limitations, specifically on the identification of which laws are more likely to be effective, these studies inform on the potential synergistic effects, or the aggregated individual effects of multiple laws, when they are simultaneously implemented within a narrow time window. The Australian NFA provides a good illustration of this. Following the implementation of the NFA, a decline in firearm deaths and firearm suicides, as well as an absence of mass shootings, occurred.

maxwell4• 4 years ago

How do you explain all the guns and absence of gun violence in Vermont and Maine?

Why is there so much gun violence in Illinois despite the strict gun control?

Do you support gun control in Ukraine?

ufmace• 4 years ago

The issue I have with such studies is they focus on "gun-related injuries or deaths". Has any study ever shown an overall decrease in deaths or injuries from any type of gun control legislation?

908B64B1973• 4 years ago

does reduce the amount of gun-related injuries or deaths though a decline in firearm deaths and firearm suicides

That's... to be expected. I don't think someone needs a college degree to figure that out. The majority of gun injuries and death are self-inflicted [0]. Removing access to firearms just means that people will turn to other means. It's also why suicide rates in the US and Canada are comparable despite the huge disrepectancy in gun availability. South Korea has a much bigger suicide rate than the US and Canada despite having strict gun control.

In Canada the Government will grant you the right to commit suicide (yes, you read that right) through the taxpayer funded healthcare system [1].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_Sta...

[1] https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/ad-am/bk-di.html

LinuxBender• 4 years ago

Might this be the unintended consequence of banning the sales of handguns in Canada recently? Canadians have always been well armed but now there are more handguns moving from the U.S. into Canada and it seems like 3D printing would be the natural evolution of this path as border checks are increasing.

grecy• 4 years ago

Handguns have always been extremely tightly controlled in Canada.

Even before the recent sales ban you couldn't have one at home unless it was locked away - it's not like you can have it in your bedside drawer. The only time you can transport it anywhere is to/from the gun range. In transit it must be locked away, and you have to get a permit to make that drive.

Also note you're in big trouble if you get caught buying groceries on the way to/from the gun range and you have the handgun locked in your trunk.

It has always been illegal to carry a handgun on your person, and you can't hunt with them either.

Note: I have a "non-restricted" firearms license, which means shotguns & long rifles (bolt action, small magazines), and it's fairly straightforward to get the license to own those weapons. They dropped the "long gun registry" a few years back because stats show crimes are not committed with long guns. That means long guns are no longer registered, the government has no idea who owns what in terms of long guns. Handguns are a WHOLE different story.

notch656c9• 4 years ago

If someone doesn't drive in the US their chance of being caught with a handgun is basically zero unless they pull it out (which they shouldn't be doing unless their life is in danger and legal issues are the least of their worries). I wonder how often pedestrians/passengers get patted down in Canada.

pseudo0• 4 years ago

The US/Canada border is incredibly porous. There is so much area to cover, along with numerous communities that practically sit on top of the border, native reservations, and bodies of water. Any attempt to seriously crack down on smuggling would be prohibitively expensive and politically unpalatable. 3d printing is advancing among enthusiasts, but when it comes to the black market, illegal importation from the US is still by far the easiest and cheapest option.

rascul2• 4 years ago

numerous communities that practically sit on top of the border

A recent HN thread:

The US-Canada border cuts through the Haskell Free Library and Opera House

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34138863

peepeepoopoo3• 4 years ago

The choice of language around firearms is always interesting. Instead of using a descriptive term like "homebuilt firearms", communications on this topic use an editorialized description like "ghost guns".

piyh2• 4 years ago

One man's common sense gun control is another man's unconditional and ineffective gun grab.

Probably doesn't help when Cody Wilson is selling a CNC called the Ghost Gunner.

maxwell4• 4 years ago

I dismiss any argument that appeals to "common sense." It has no logical meaning.

sschueller2• 4 years ago

Ghost just means they were not made by a registered gun maker?

Aren't many guns in the US untraceable even though they have serial numbers because of the lack of a proper database? So in effect also ghost guns?

kube-system5• 4 years ago

There are paper records for all dealers sales in the US, they're just not electronic. So they are traceable, it just requires manual human effort to pick up telephones and read paperwork out of a filing cabinet.

Edit: although, the cheapest and easiest way for a criminal to get an "untraceable" gun in the US is probably to bust out the window of a pickup truck, steal the gun out of the glove box, and file off the serial number.

maxwell4• 4 years ago

Privately made firearms and in-state sales are completely legal in the United States, enshrined as an enumerated Constitutional right. No serial numbers required.

Sale of firearms may be regulated if crossing state lines, hence the Gun Control Act of '68, but a federal database of firearms / firearm owners would of course be completely unconstitutional.

anonporridge2• 4 years ago

"custom, artisanal guns"

Ancapistani7• 4 years ago

The word "bespoke" is pretty commonly used in that context :)

dang• 4 years ago

We've deghosted the title above.

VancouverMan• 4 years ago

In this case, it makes sense when one is familiar with Canada's news media landscape.

Ideologically, CBC has tended to be very far to the left, and over time has become even more extreme.

About a year ago, a journalist who'd worked at CBC discussed the situation:

https://tarahenley.substack.com/p/speaking-freely

In my opinion, CBC consistently puts out some of the lowest-quality and least-objective "news coverage" that I've seen from the major and minor news providers in Canada.

recuter2• 4 years ago

You can make an untraceable deadly weapon with <$1 of bowstring and a random piece of timber, no 3d printer required.

Although this is by far my favorite method of killing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y

lifeisstillgood• 4 years ago

Ok that is, by far, the most incredible, weird, brilliant, cannot stop watching piece of cinema / art / just how much effort did you put into a throw away joke ... I mean they actually had a divemaster for an underwater sequence, ... just brilliant :-)

Thank you for introducing me to this. I hope to pay it forward.

samwillis2• 4 years ago

At first is was worried, anyone who has a "favourite method of killing" is slightly scary. But that is brilliant!

recuter2• 4 years ago

I have a sibling and his murder by this method has been ongoing ever since we came across the video.

karaterobot3• 4 years ago

The proliferation of 3D printed firearms completely changed my opinion on gun control a few years ago. I used to think that getting rid of guns was a great first step. But, it seems like it's not really feasible to do that. Now my opinion is that maybe it should be the last step, after addressing the causes of gun death (suicide and the drug war are at the top of the list). But at that point, if we'd actually fixed those problems, I wonder if there would be much of a pressing need to get rid of guns at all.

ajsnigrutin• 4 years ago

Even if you solved that, you'd still have problems with knives (you can't outlaw kitchen knives), homemade explosives, sticks, screwdrivers, acid, etc.

Mental health, crime, and drugs (also, again crime related to those), and you've solved most of the problems. Just legalizing some drugs would probably solve more than half of the issues in some places.

closewith3• 4 years ago

Watching Americans try to justify gun culture and why it isn't the real problem is always baffling to me. I do wonder if you're expressing genuinely held beliefs or if your head is wilfully in the sand.

Gwypaas• 4 years ago

Fitting right in with Nicaragua and Zimbabwe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

VikingCoder3• 4 years ago

Have you looked into the statistics of how many people succeed in suicide, world-wide, from knives, homemade explosives, sticks, screwdrivers, vs. how many succeed in suicide from firearms?

I mean, have you?

If you haven't, then why would you bring them up as "problems"?

Or are you just spit-balling?

bayesian_horse16• 4 years ago

It's much harder to kill people with a knife than with a gun.

In the US, mass shooters have killed a dozen or more victims in a minute or two. Very hard to achieve with anything else short of explosives.

throw0101c• 4 years ago

Mental health, crime, and drugs (also, again crime related to those), and you've solved most of the problems.

¿Por qué no los dos?

At the very least having a filter so that not just any rando can walk around packing heat would probably be helpful:

* https://www.autoblog.com/2022/01/31/florida-man-road-rage-sh...

If you want it at home for whatever reason, have fun. Though some safe storage laws may be a good idea (and strong liability):

* https://www.cbsnews.com/news/first-grader-allegedly-shot-tea...

incomingpain2• 4 years ago

Even if you solved that, you'd still have problems with knives (you can't outlaw kitchen knives),

There are many pictures with labels in the uk saying you have to be over 18 to buy plastic utensils, because there's a knife.

This is why the UK had more homicides after banning firearms.

Homicides up, gun related homicides down. Turns out, you have some gangster shoot up a place. They land perhaps a couple shots and run off. The victim is rushed to hospital where they are saved.

Chef knife victim on the otherhand will die.

So the politicians who banned guns in the UK are morally responsible for more deaths occurring. They could have addressed the actual reason the homicides were occurring but failed to do so.

downrightmike• 4 years ago

Unfortunately, Mental illness is largely not the cause of gun violence like the media says it is, the issue is that there are so many guns out there that are so easy to get a hand on by anyone, that gun violence is so bad. And since JFK got rid of sanatoriums and expected the private companies to pick up the slack, 60 years ago, there will never be enough care as proven by the lack of care today. Sorry, we don't, nor will we ever, prioritize it enough to have any meaningful impact on gun violence. You take the weapons out of reach of people who would use them to do harm to others _first_, and only then can we make any progress on the issues. But too many companies and unscrupulous people are out there and they actively block and write legislation to make gun violence a certainty. Bad advertising and death is still good advertising to these people. As for 3D printed guns, we have a whole ATF bureau that should be on this just like they are on the illegal fully auto gun mods.

maxwell4• 4 years ago

Unconstitutional.

We keep a gun behind every blade of grass for a reason.

ruined• 4 years ago

3d printed guns are as difficult to control as media piracy, which is to say, it's impossible.

devwastaken2• 4 years ago

Try to legally get a handgun or semi-automatic rifle in the u.s. walk me through that process. You may be surprised to find that it's much harder than you claim it to be.

karaterobot3• 4 years ago

Unfortunately, Mental illness is largely not the cause of gun violence like the media says it is, the issue is that there are so many guns out there that are so easy to get a hand on by anyone, that gun violence is so bad.

This is close to the position I used to take. I now believe it's incorrect, mostly because (I am speaking of the United States in particular) you aren't going to get people to give up their guns. It's just not going to happen on a foreseeable timeline. Add in the existence of 3D printed firearms, and it becomes a laughable prospect. If you accept that as a premise, what do you do next if you want to reduce gun deaths? Probably what you should have done in the first place, which is to attack the cause rather than the method of death.

yellowapple5• 4 years ago

You take the weapons out of reach of people who would use them to do harm to others _first_, and only then can we make any progress on the issues.

Translation: "we'll disarm who we please and demand that you wait until we're satisfied before we start tackling the actual issues driving violence and suicide"

Nah, that ain't how this works. We as a society can and should be addressing the systemic causes of violent crime and suicide now; punting on that on the basis of "but bad people still have guns" is reprehensible.

allanmacgregor3• 4 years ago

This is about Canada; I know is shocking but is a different country than the US. The gun regulations and laws and culture is very different from the good ol' USA.

MonkeyMalarky• 4 years ago

Absolutely. The people buying illicit weapons need the means and motivation to do it, both of which stem from the black market for drugs.

devwastaken2• 4 years ago

Tried to illegalize alcohol - failed. Tried to illegalize drugs - failed Trying to illegalize guns - failing.

Today's progressives are tomorrow's conservatives. Yesterday's progressives wanted drugs to never be spoken of or taught. Today's progressives never want guns to be spoken of or taught. Everyone thinks they're special and more moral, but they're just the same human condition.

bayesian_horse16• 4 years ago

Gun control works quite well in all civilized countries. With remarkably better results than in the US...

Gun control even worked in the US until some people redefined the 2nd amendment and drank the NRA koolaid.

bayesian_horse16• 4 years ago

It's totally possible to control 3D-printed guns. Perfectly? Maybe not. But it helps if guns are illegal, so police can stop people who go around carrying them.

The way of manufacturing the gun really doesn't matter. Tons of "legal" guns get stolen, misplaced or sold illegally. Gun control is much more about restricting access as much as possible and making it hard for people to have an opportunity to use a gun. If you can just carry one around casually in your every day life, there are just too many opportunities for something to go badly.

908B64B1973• 4 years ago

Now my opinion is that maybe it should be the last step, after addressing the causes of gun death (suicide and the drug war are at the top of the list).

That, unlike gun regulation, would actually save lives. Keep in mind The US has a much lower suicide rate than South Korea, despite South Korea having extremely strict gun control, for instance.

In countries where guns are unavailable, people simply resort to other means. But their casualties aren't aggregated under the "firearm death" column.

To me, gun control is about political gains. Not saving lives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafia_family_murders

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London,_Ontario_truck_attack

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Calgary_stabbing

https://nypost.com/2020/11/03/quebec-police-release-new-deta...

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2445508/toronto-van-attack-ince...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge_attack

seanmcdirmid• 4 years ago

If 3D printed firearms made gun production so accessible, then why aren't we seeing a proliferation of gun usage in countries where gun controls and purchase requirements are much more strict than the USA? Is it just because those are stronger societies so people are more apt to follow the law even if it technically easy to break those laws?

Backyard gun production has been something done in China for a couple of decades now, but you still see very little gun usage in that country where it is otherwise banned (backyard gun production is also a death penalty crime, so there are strong disincentives).

notch656c9• 4 years ago

Other than the occasional mass genocide hardly anyone dies from guns in China!

On the plus side, most modern day peace-time gun deaths being caused by suicide, the state will just execute you to save the danger of you having a gun to commit suicide with!

nradov2• 4 years ago

We are seeing a proliferation of craft built firearms (some 3D printed) in Myanmar. Gun controls and purchase requirements are very strict there, but it's somewhat of a failed state with ongoing insurgencies. You can find plenty of videos of those weapons online; quality looks close to low-end factory products.

I predict we'll see the same thing happen in China in about a decade when Xi Jinping dies and the central government starts to lose control over the southern regions. There was a already a lot of local workshop firearms manufacturing in China during the Warlord Era before the Communist Party consolidated control over the mainland so history may repeat itself.

yellowapple5• 4 years ago

Now my opinion is that maybe it should be the last step, after addressing the causes of gun death (suicide and the drug war are at the top of the list). But at that point, if we'd actually fixed those problems, I wonder if there would be much of a pressing need to get rid of guns at all.

I've given myself plenty a sore throat stating and restating this exact point over the years. Even waving a magic wand that magically erases the very concept of a firearm from existence would do precisely nothing to address the underlying causes of violence and suicide - and actually addressing said underlying causes would be far more effective in reducing (if not outright eliminating) said violence and suicide (not to mention the myriad other societal benefits!) than said gun-erasing magic wand (let alone any less-stringent form of gun control).

Unfortunately, said underlying causes - in particular, socioeconomic inequality and mental healthcare inaccessibility - are notoriously difficult to address without pissing off the people largely in control of the world's governments/economies/societies. Said people also happen to not like it when their serfs have the means to fight back against that control - and therefore have a vested interest in convincing us serfs to demand our own disarmament instead of demanding they pay their fair share toward actual solutions.

(In case anyone thinks I'm being too coy: yes, I'm referring to the ownership class - i.e. the beneficiaries of capitalism, i.e. the ones who subsist primarily/entirely on the profits skimmed from the rest of our labor. You don't have to be a full-blown Marxist or whatever to understand the age-old adages of "money is power" and "power corrupts".)

kaba03• 4 years ago

Is gangs shooting each other, (usually family) homicides and school shootings not big enough problems? Because we have plenty of countries with similar social problems, yet they have much much lower deaths per capita, so it is safe to conclude that guns are a problem. (Nonetheless, I won’t pretend to know a solution, the car is out of the bag and the US is not easily fixable. But stricter gun control is definitely a good way ahead)

incomingpain2• 4 years ago

Prohibition = Black Market without elimination. Trudeau got rid of cannabis prohibition because the black market simply ran through the Canada Post.

Gun control has an end goal of "If we banned guns worldwide, the supply would eventually dry up." But this is entirely unrealistic.

Regardless of gun control this will never change anything like the number of homicides. All the recent shootings in Toronto were from guns which were never legal in Canada.

Even in the USA with right to bear arms. It's really 50,000 suicides out of 300,000,000 population consisting of the vast majority of gun crime. Trying to help prevent suicides by gun control is ridiculously bad policy to ignore suicides.

himinlomax• 4 years ago

In Europe, the regulated part of the gun is typically the high pressure components, i.e. the barrel and bolt. In the US and I guess Canada, it's the receiver. The thing is, machining the former is much more difficult and involved than printing / cutting / grinding / assembling the latter — unless you're making a single use weapon, in which case any old steel tube of the right diameter will do anyway.

The problem is not 3D printed guns, it's inadequate regulation.

closewith3• 4 years ago

Following the introduction of the Firearms Directive, pretty much every part of a firearm is regulates in the EU:

For the purposes of this Directive, “part” shall mean any element or replacement element specifically designed for a firearm and essential to its operation, including a barrel, frame or receiver, slide or cylinder, bolt or breech block, and any device designed or adapted to diminish the sound caused by firing a firearm.

samwillis2• 4 years ago

The 3D printed gun debate and how it applies to gun control misses a few important things.

- Most countries that have gun control, have strict control of ammunition. It may be possible to 3d print a "gun", but it is going to be hard to find ammunition for it, unless you go the home made route for that too.

- Domestic or hobbyist 3d printing is not going to produce a particularly strong gun, it's most likely going to only work once or twice before it blows itself apart. There is a good chance the person using it will significantly hurt themselves.

- They will have very poor accuracy, it won't be possible to rifle the barrel on a 3d printed gun in a way that will spin the projectile.

- You don't need 3d printing to make a rudimentary gun, one can be fabricated relatively easily by a somewhat competent DIYer in a home workshop. It would probably be better than a 3d printed one too.

The point is, the arguments around 3d printed guns are mostly media driven, if someone is intent on hurting someone else, they will find a way to do it. 3d printing or the availability of designs is not enabling that.

notch656c9• 4 years ago

See "ButWhatAboutAmmo" by IvanTheTroll et al. Places where people are well enough off to afford 3d printers haev already found ways around the ammo issue.

it's most likely going to only work once or twice before it blows itself apar

LMAO see FGC-9.

it won't be possible to rifle the barrel on a 3d printed gun in a way that will spin the projectile.

But it is possible to 3d print a mandrel for ECM machining, in a way that basically anyone can easily rifle for very low cost. See ECM machining guide as part of FGC-9 build. This sounds complicated but in practice very simple, print the part and attach a pipe along with pumped water/electricity and you get very nice accurate rifling tested to perform about as well as glock oem barrel.

It would probably be better than a 3d printed one too.

Not typically at least using the most popular expedient arms manuals. The magazine and feeding typically performs much poorer than say modern 3d printed like FGC-9. Repeatable in-tolerance magazines/feeding have always been the weak point of most home machine shop made stuff and 3d printing has mostly solved that problem.

eindiran• 4 years ago

Every one of your points is extremely wrong, except the first. We don't live in 2014, and we aren't talking about the Liberator anymore. Electrochemical machining means that anyone can rifle a barrel in their closet, there are tons of designs that are fully DIY without any metalworking capabilities. The glass filled nylon polymers people are using now are equivalent to many of the polymers used in industry. The last moat truly is ammunition and frankly that is a matter of time.

dawnerd• 4 years ago

anyone can rifle a barrel in their closet

That's a bit of a stretch. I think you and a lot of other people underestimate how expensive it is. The people actually doing this are doing it just because they can. Still easier, faster and cheaper to buy a ghost gun in a state with more lax rules.

hotpotamus3• 4 years ago

Imagine the possibilities once we advance the state of the art in biological weapon prototyping.

bayesian_horse16• 4 years ago

What you are saying is mostly irrelevant. Access to ammunition is usually easier and cheaper, even illegally. Modern designs for 3D printed guns can be quite powerful and a lot more capable than what you seem to be assuming. Quite a few designs contain a metal barrel which isn't regulated.

There aren't that many "somewhat competent" DIYers with appropriate milling equipment and skills. It's a lot easier to 3D print a design than use manual tools to precisely manufacture something. Making it easier to kill people usually means more people get killed. A basic observation in criminology.

Obviously 3D printed guns are getting produced and are being used in crimes. The article also says that Canada has a bigger problem with guns smuggled from the US.

mattpallissard2• 4 years ago

There aren't that many "somewhat competent" DIYers with appropriate milling equipment and skills

A gun is a tube and a pin. No milling is required.

ferminaut• 4 years ago

Domestic or hobbyist 3d printing is not going to produce a particularly strong gun, it's most likely going to only work once or twice before it blows itself apart. There is a good chance the person using it will significantly hurt themselves.

While this is true for 100% printed guns, most fosscad folks will have core components that are metal. Barrels, firing pins, etc will be metal in most designs.

Some folks claim their guns can shoot thousands of rounds with no issue.

They will have very poor accuracy, it won't be possible to rifle the barrel on a 3d printed gun in a way that will spin the projectile.

Folks literally etch their gun barrels with the same specs as commercially available barrels. Here is one such example from the /r/fosscad community: https://www.reddit.com/gallery/106u7au

While the fear is mostly media driven, the stuff folks are making now is a little alarming. Claymores, grenade launchers, etc. If you are interested in learning about this community, check out /r/fosscad on reddit.

Ancapistani7• 4 years ago

Some folks claim their guns can shoot thousands of rounds with no issue.

For context, I have an AR with a printed lower that I've put ~1k rounds through without issue. In the US that's the only serialized part, and therefore the only part that would be typically purchased from a dealer and able to be "traced".

Folks literally etch their gun barrels with the same specs as commercially available barrels.

I've made a couple of pistol barrels with ECM, and they're no less accurate than commercial stuff.

It might be interesting to know that I made those specifically in order to comply with US law - not to "evade" it. Even a single-shot rimfire pistol falls under the National Firearms Act unless it has a rifled barrel. It would have been much simpler to just use a metal tube, but I didn't want to deal with filing the forms, paying the tax, and waiting months for approval before putting together a random project that I started on a whim.

Turing_Machine5• 4 years ago

While some of your assertions were true in the past, most are no longer so.

Untraceable 3D-printed guns on the rise in Canada

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