A layoff guide for tweeps

https://collectiveaction.tech/2022/a-layoff-guide-for-tweeps/

by mkeeter • 4 years ago

75 78 4 years ago

Volundr2• 4 years ago

One thing I was surprised not to see here but applies to any termination for any reason (even quitting really): do not sign anything without being paid for it. Even if they are offering a severance run it by a lawyer first. Without though, just don't, no matter how innocuous it seems. It's for their benefit, not yours.

seibelj• 4 years ago

If you are a highly skilled technologist you will not have any issue finding a new job. If you are greatly bothered by the changes at Twitter and the new ownership it is almost certainly for the best that you leave and do something else. I don't see why someone skilled enough to work at Twitter would desperately hang on working for someone you can't stand to try and get some severance. Life isn't fair and this is the free market, and you are earning Big Buck$, dust off the resume and join a new company. Life is too short to live like that.

intrasight2• 4 years ago

Perhaps. But a lot of people really invest in their job and their projects and their colleagues, and it's a traumatic experience.

biohax2015• 4 years ago

Well hopefully it’s also a learning experience to not invest so much in an entity that doesn’t give a crap about your wellbeing.

fzeroracer3• 4 years ago

I don't know if you know this or not, but often people's first job is in fact at a company. Perhaps even Twitter, so they may not have gone through a wave of layoffs before and don't know their rights or have connected to coworkers outside of work-specific communications.

jonathankoren2• 4 years ago

Why quit for free when you can make them pay?

type-r3• 4 years ago

What makes you think they're going to pay?

UncleOxidant6• 4 years ago

"Preparing for a Malicious “For-Cause” Termination The new leadership has dramatically changed the expectations of workload across the organization. It is now expected that teams work evenings and weekends to ship products. Work progress is being tracked by the hour in spreadsheets to build precedent for terminating workers “for cause” to avoid paying severance. "

That's just shitty. Richest guy in the world and he doesn't want to pay severance. CA has some pretty strong labor laws, I'd think requiring people to work evenings & weekends would be a no-go.

From a game-theory standpoint it seems like given that Musk is going to do everything he can to keep from paying severance that the best strategy would be for everyone to just walk out the door all together and let Musk figure it all out by himself. Don't give notice, just stop showing up for work.

VHRanger2• 4 years ago

Having won a severance lawsuit in the past (Quebec jurisdiction though):

Employment lawyers must be salivating at this point.

Twitter is blatantly trying to avoid paying severance by using the for cause, and are likely sloppy in doing it given management pressure.

Gentle reminder to everyone that a big reason companies pay severance is so you dont sue them.

If they offer you the minimum legal package, or worse they try to bullshit you into even less, you should be suing them. Theyre hoping you dont.

pc86• 4 years ago

Even California's labor laws are not going to be close to anything in Canada. And I don't know how many Twitter folks are remote, but if they're not in a very small minority of states, they're basically at the whims of management.

At the end of the day, Twitter is under new management and it is within management's right to change to circumstances of your employment. If they start pushing night and weekend work, and you don't deliver, that alone isn't necessarily a violation of any law. You didn't perform, and it's completely possible that your termination is legally for cause, even in California.

Employment law is very complex and honestly the situation will vary drastically even among similarly leveled folks on the same team fired at the same time. What kind of notification you're given, what kind of documentation there, previous reviews, etc. all play a role.

I think it's shitty to try to squeeze out people like this but just because it's shitty doesn't mean it's illegal or that it's a good idea to sue over it.

shagie2• 4 years ago

Twitter is blatantly trying to avoid paying severance by using the for cause, and are likely sloppy in doing it given management pressure.

https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/finalpay.pdf

There is no legal requirement under California law that employers provide severance pay to an employee upon termination of employment. Employees should refer to their employer’s policy with respect to severance pay. Severance pay plans provided by an employer pursuant to the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974, 29 U.S.C. § 1001, et seq. (ERISA), are subject to federal law. Contact the U.S. Department of Labor at www.dol.gov. In certain limited situations, California laws may apply. However, a thorough review of the facts is necessary before a determination can be made.

cgb223• 4 years ago

"Preparing for a Malicious “For-Cause” Termination The new leadership has dramatically changed the expectations of workload across the organization. It is now expected that teams work evenings and weekends to ship products. Work progress is being tracked by the hour in spreadsheets to build precedent for terminating workers “for cause” to avoid paying severance. "

Unfortunately this is happening at a different not-quite-FAANG company in the Bay as we speak

It’s a terrible feeling. Getting gaslit, having everything you do suddenly be under a microscope, finding flaws in any work you do correctly to further document your faults. Even though every other review you’ve had with your manager previously was positive. All to avoid paying out a mildly generous severance package en masse, and the bad press that comes with actual Layoffs…

Companies really show their true colors when times get hard. Benefits mean nothing if they’re taken away at the first sign of hard times

toomuchtodo2• 4 years ago

Unionize. Unfortunately, there is no other way to improve working conditions on a smaller scale, and it’s more actionable than legislation. Efforts to do so are protected by federal labor law.

Labor rights are not a four letter word. It’s dignity, plain and simple.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33426373

AnonCoward007• 4 years ago

Unfortunately this is happening at a different not-quite-FAANG company in the Bay as we speak

It’s happening at FAANG companies as well. My team was dissolved last week and I was reassigned to a different team that already had a senior engineer on it. I was told by my manager that they only need one senior on the team and so it’s them or me. I’m encouraged to document their flaws and I’m sure they were told the same about me. The next review cycle is going to be brutal.

nemo44x4• 4 years ago

Don't give notice, just stop showing up for work.

I’d assume many of the employees that will be kept are grateful they don’t have to carry the low performers any longer. Game knows game and high performers want to work with similar people.

Why would the cohort of high performing employees walk out for the benefit of the low performing employees?

_jal• 4 years ago

Why would a high performer put up with being treated like shit because the new guy regrets his stoned impulse buy?

If I worked there, I'd walk.

UncleOxidant6• 4 years ago

It sounds like everyone is being required to work some pretty crazy hours. Why would even high performing employees want to be burned out when they could easily get another job?

threeseed2• 4 years ago

Reading this comment I highly doubt you're a high performer.

The really great people understand that life isn't a zero sum game and have a high degree of empathy and altruism for their team members. And they definitely see the bigger picture e.g. that firing 50% of the company (as is rumoured) is not going to be good for anyone.

Volundr2• 4 years ago

I've never met a "high performing employee" who is willing to work the kind of hours being demanded, especially to meet arbitrary deadlines. Frankly to high performers know their value and are far less likely to bow to this nonsense.

jurassic2• 4 years ago

High-performing employees do not enjoy being abused the way Elon is abusing current Twitter employees. Being good at what you do does not make someone enjoy working 24/7 under threat of firing. They especially don't like doing it for somebody who is openly antagonistic and disrespectful towards them.

jurassic2• 4 years ago

It's shameful is what it is. Richest man in the world trying to pick the pockets of average workers after he abused them and threw them out of a job.

socialismisok4• 4 years ago

I hope this breaks his reputation amongst tech types. But sadly it probably won't.

kodyo• 4 years ago

Right. They worked for a shitty company with shitty service that elevated shitty people to prominence while collaborating with a shitty government to oppress speech while ignoring shitty users who were distributing underage porn. Poor them.

nrmitchi2• 4 years ago

If you’re not in a single party consent state, get creative. Have a colleague in one of these states hop on the phone to help you record and document any layoff conversations.

This feels like very risky advice. If your colleague is not party to a conversation, you can’t just sneak them in to the conversation to have them record it.

bagels4• 4 years ago

I think if by record they mean "write down what is said", this may not violate the wiretap laws of some states.

gnicholas2• 4 years ago

Having someone on a call writing down what is said does not create as compelling of evidence as an audio/video recording. It would be useful since it would be contemporaneous, but assuming the person is your friend, their loyalty/honesty would be called into question in court. That wouldn't happen with an audio recording (barring deepfakes).

nrmitchi2• 4 years ago

If by "record" they mean "write down what is said" then they wouldn't specifically be suggesting finding a colleague in a single-party consent state.

Because "writing stuff down" isn't prohibited in any state.

thedufer• 4 years ago

My reading was that they're suggesting that in so-called two-party consent states, getting a third person in the room (whether or not it's done surreptitiously) and then having consent from 2/3 parties makes the recording legal. That's not true, of course - "two-party" is a bit of a misnomer. This feels like dangerous advice.

bagels4• 4 years ago

Tweeps should have formed a union in April. It was obvious that Musk was really going to inflict cruelty and disrespects upon them from the beginning.

nemo44x4• 4 years ago

Why would the high performing employees unionize with the poor performers to protect them? They’re grateful to see the deadweight cut off.

toomuchtodo2• 4 years ago

You only need a majority to unionize. Do more than 51% of Twitter employees think they’re the highest performing?

Let the exceptionalists fend for themselves if they feel so inclined. You only have to convince the majority, not those who think they’re the best (whether warranted or not). If you’re “high performing”, you’ll land anywhere you want, right? Call their bluff. What do you have to lose? Your tenuous at will employment?

socialismisok4• 4 years ago

I very much disagree that a) Twitter is only cutting dead weight and b) Tweeps are happy about seeing their peers fired en masse.

dawnerd• 4 years ago

Based on your comments it sounds like you have beef with what you consider less skilled employees. I bet you're a joy to work with. Maybe you should take some time off, you sound burned out. Like being 100% honest here.

anthlax• 4 years ago

This has got to be elon’s HN account. Insane amounts of pro Elon, anti union comments.

bagels4• 4 years ago

Musk isn't going to somehow accurately identify the worst performers. You lose good people too when laying off half the workforce. Not just that, but the treatment of those who remain is likely to be really poor. Did Musk wipe out their RSUs? I don't know, but he has incentive and that special lack of empathy needed to cut their pay. The union protects all of the employees.

socialismisok4• 4 years ago

It's a good reminder that we should all be unionizing.

gnicholas2• 4 years ago

I wonder if Musk would have claimed that was an MAE. My gut says yes.

powera• 4 years ago

I would say that Elon Musk must know that trying to layoff half the company under the guise of "for-cause" would be certain to open him up to massive legal liability, but the past few months have led me to suspect Mr. Musk fundamentally misunderstands the American legal system.

In any event, it would be illegal, there would be plenty of lawyers ready to work on contingency, and politicians would also be eager to investigate.

UncleOxidant6• 4 years ago

but the past few months have led me to suspect Mr. Musk fundamentally misunderstands the American legal system.

I think you're right, but I also think that he figures he's the richest man in the world and can do pretty much whatever he wants at this point.

prirun• 4 years ago

I think he understands it just fine. He calculates the cost/benefit ratio of trying something whether it's legal or not. If it works, great for him! If it doesn't work, oh well, it costs him a few extra dollars. Just like trying to back out of the buyout.

Most people are easily intimidated by legal-sounding crap, like a severance agreement written up by company lawyers. In my experience, most lawyers are crap (I have had 1 good one out of around 5)and a lot of the "legal agreements" being written have illegal stuff in them, which is why they always say "if anything in this contract is found to be illegal, the rest of it still holds".

The advice to consult with a lawyer and maybe an accountant is IMO well worth the extra trouble and expense. They're counting on employees being too intimidated to do it.

quelltext2• 4 years ago

Move your comp letters, redacted promo packets, redacted impact docs, promo letters, and pay stubs (on Workday) to your personal laptop. It’s imperative you have access to your key employment documents.

In many cases these systems only have SSO login. So how do you get that data onto your laptop when as mentioned earlier in the article you could be fired for cause when sending data is detected.

derwiki• 4 years ago

Take a picture of your screen with your phone?

quelltext2• 4 years ago

That's clearly not what they meant here. They specifically used the word move.

banana-19• 4 years ago

Shall we call November 2022 the Mythical Musk Month?

I'm not a tweep, but I'd add:

- if you have any sort of access to your employer's network from your personal devices (e.g. email / calendar / WiFi etc.) remove it and check for any MDM settings. Especially if your employer has remote wipe capability on your device, or could legally confiscate your device due to some legal policy.

- Get a copy of information that makes it easy to write your next resume. E.g. your job description / leveling guide.

- If you're more nefarious than I am, consider maxing out any temporary benefits that might not be withdrawn after you leave. E.g. taking home company desk / chair / hardware for loan use in your home office if allowed (to improve your productivity). If they want it back after you're fired for cause, make them come get it, you don't work for them, so why do their work?

- Less nefariously, it's probably time that you accidentally "lose your badge" and get a replacement especially if that's used for discounts like car rental, airlines, gym memberships, etc. Copy codes for these things especially if they're a good discount you might use when you're laid off.

- Consider the effect being laid off might have on your 401k match etc. Min/Max it out if this makes sense for your financial situation.

- Go through your emails to get a list of contacts that you've ever worked with / emailed. You never know who will be a good person to have in your network later (and who might not appear in linkedin)

- I have heard people say that there are companies with severance linked non-disparagement clauses that can be a PITA, as well as non-disclosure clauses that make it impossible to disclose severance related things like amounts etc. I'd speculate that these clauses could make it problematic to get advice from your peers / friends.

- Plan something good for after the layoff if you're not immediately in need of a new job (take a vacation).

- Talk with an immigration attorney about what termination and not having a job means for you and your family.

- Find out your employer's policies around termination of people that have immigration issues.

- COBRA can be pretty expensive - find out what this might cost for you and your family (it may work out cheaper to just pay for things as they arrive or look at marketplace plans).

- Join blind for your employer

- Take care of your immediate mental health, when everything is going to shit, remember that making time to do the things that you love doing is important. Walk the dog. Play that game. Go to that happy hour.

Good luck

sizzzzlerz• 4 years ago

The greatest lie ever told to employees by their company is that "they are all family".

pascalxus2• 4 years ago

Working at a company like that you really have to come to terms with the fact that any second you're working there, could be your last. Act accordingly.

I take that to mean, that one definately should not be working evenings and weekends. Why do all that, for a company that's not going to value your work and look for wrongful ways to terminate you. If anything it means, you should work much fewer hours.

type-r3• 4 years ago

If we elide "like that" from your first sentence I agree. I promote people always assume that firing could happen anytime. Taking this approach makes you less susceptible to agree to unreasonable requests.

xtiansimon• 4 years ago

What does “for-cause” mean in an at-will state? If you’re fired, you generally still qualify for Unemployment Insurance. Severance payment is not a law, but a per-company practice. If a company plays games with their benefits, that can’t be unexpected.

A layoff guide for tweeps

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