Maybe you can't make money doing what you love

http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2008/10/maybe-you-cant.html

by bdfh42 • 18 years ago

68 36 18 years ago

sethgodin.typepad.com

jyothi• 18 years ago

"Ars gratia artis"

Explains why great artists lived poor financially. But there are always who bring in the genius of AND with art meets living (commercial). They ofcourse are geniuses.

zandorg2• 18 years ago

Or just get a good manager.

wallflower• 18 years ago

Two quotable quotes: "Work does not necessarily make you happy, but it may provide you the money to do the things that make you happy."

"If all you get from your job is a paycheck, you're underpaid"

I don't think it's a trade-off if you don't love your job. However, if you truly hate your job - why are you doing it?

I was a workaholic for the longest time and I still am - I am re-applying my workaholic tendencies to outside-the-cube. Software development bankrolls ventures like learning Spanish and Salsa dancing.

jcromartie• 18 years ago

I think Hugh MacLeod's How To Be Creative gives this subject a better treatment. I haven't forgotten the very simple "Sex & Cash Theory." Creative people need two jobs: one is sexy, and one pays the bills.

MicahWedemeyer• 18 years ago

There are plenty of careers that meld creativity and commercial gains, like being an architect or interior designer. Don't you think an architect takes pride in seeing one of their buildings standing against the skyline?

Sure, you might not get rich making splatter paintings, but you can still be creative and make money at the same time. People will pay for things that are aesthetically pleasing.

bokonist• 18 years ago

Architects don't make much money. And within the field, there is strong inverse correlation between prestige of the job and the pay. Some of the most prestigious New York firms actually pay their employees less than minimum wage. And I'm not talking about interns - I'm talking full time employees with masters in architecture getting paid virtually nothing. On the flip side, if an architect does project management for construction, they get paid a lot more.

sfamiliar• 18 years ago

You have to also love making money. I love making money. By definition, it is impossible for me to become unhappy if I have to make money doing what I love. /obvious.

I had a girlfriend like this: she was an excellent photographer, had a degree in fine arts with a photography specialty, but didn't want to make money doing it -- she didn't want it to become her job. This discrepancy made her miserable, not only because she generally didn't get to take pictures, and didn't get to make the money she could be making, but also because she wasn't using her degree.

I went to school for CS, not because I love it (though I do at times) but because the market forecast was good, and I wanted to retire early. What I like about programming is the freedom to innovate, to solve problems. I get to solve problems, solve puzzles with my job. That's great. When I get done working, I'll write a book -- that'll be even better.

I think it's enough to work doing something you like, to support what you love.

mhb• 18 years ago

First "grow the economy" and now "surface your ideas". Ugh.

fallentimes2• 18 years ago

Classic Godin.

LostInTheWoods• 18 years ago

"That passion you have for art... perhaps making your painting commercial enough to sell will squeeze the joy out of it."

Once you cross the line of doing something to pay the bills, instead of doing it for the joy of doing it, then it becomes work. And, work, ultimately sucks.

kirse• 18 years ago

I was trying to figure out when a hobby I love turns into something I hate, and you just nailed it for me. Needed to pay bills = work.

It also becomes work once you believe you have to turn your hobby into something that makes money (because everyone - especially this site - tells you to find your passion and then make money from it).

Some pursuits are better left intrinsicly rewarding.

aditya• 18 years ago

This is another example of Seth's cookiecutter gurudom. I don't think it applies to startups at all, though.

Also, stop rehashing the same old, 'If you commercialize your art, it stops being satisfying' BS. We knew that forever ago. I think in the connected universe it is easy to to do something you love on the side AND make money from it AND be happy doing it. Like that guy who makes $2k/yr because he sold some photos to iStockphoto 10 years ago.

Not to bring ad hominem into this, but why has Seth become so un-original?

Hexstream• 18 years ago

"become"?

coglethorpe• 18 years ago

I have a feeling Seth Godin loves what he does for money.

redorb• 18 years ago

if you're going to make a living at it, it helps to find a niche where money flows as a regular consequence of the success of your idea

as soon as you focus on your art and leave the money behind, you may just discover that this focus turns out to be the secret of actually breaking through and making money.

thats the meat of the articles, overall good ideas..

fallentimes2• 18 years ago

Yeah, but more than likely you can do something doing what you like.

iigs• 18 years ago

I think there's some kind of implicit sentiment that the happiness from doing something you enjoy and getting paid are additive when you do something you enjoy. I'm not sure that's true.

I love computers, UNIX/Linux, scalable architectures, yadda yadda yadda. I work in the field, and am reasonably well compensated, but I've always said "I'd keep doing computers even if I was the one paying."

Doing something you're passionate about for someone else (whether your customer is a manager, or you're self employed and your customer is the one paying) isn't inherently pleasurable if the customer's goals aren't perfectly aligned with yours -- in fact it can be deeply saddening to know there's a better way to accomplish something, if only some business reality (cost, technical constraint) wasn't in the way.

For me, the big win working in my favorite field is that the job is easy -- I have a great pool of contacts, I've spent over 80% of my entire life immersed in the problems and solutions of this field. That said, I'm pretty sure I'd enjoy computing a lot more again if I went back to bagging groceries -- 100% of the computing I'd do would be computing for pleasure, no more chores or building stuff for people that have needs that are different than mine.

laktek• 18 years ago

My thoughts on this : http://www.web2media.net/laktek/?p=90

bbgm• 18 years ago

I mostly agree with most of the comments, especially since Seth oversimplifies, but he has a point. I know a couple of people who loved painting and graphic design, but lost all love for it when it became a career, so they switched to another career and started enjoying design again. It wasn't that they couldn't make money from design, but making it a career took the joy and creativity out of it.

HN might just skewed towards those lucky few who are able to make money from things they love. Personally, if I am not doing something I love, it's not worth it.

jerf• 18 years ago

I think he misses the real problem. It is easier to be noticed. It is easier to get "picked up". However, it's easier for everyone, which means that the supply of niche content is radically increasing... and when supply increases, the price drops. In the end, the key is still to move from niche to large, and we've moved from "like winning the lottery" under the old system to... "like winning the lottery" under the new system, too. The barrier of entry is lower, but it's even more random behind the barrier.

pg3• 18 years ago

In order to monetize your work, you'll probably corrupt it, taking out the magic in search of dollars.

The great artists of the Renaissance were very highly paid. In fact they were probably the best paid craftsmen of the time. And they are hard to beat for magic.

qhoxie• 18 years ago

The better the artist, the more they are able to explore their ideas and abilities. It's not universal but it's as circumstantially true now as it was then.

crux_2• 18 years ago

Not to pee on your parade, the only one of that gaggle of technicians that was any good was Hieronymus Bosch!

</flamewar>

pg3• 18 years ago

I miss being on vacation and not having access to wifi...

Alex39173• 18 years ago

It's very well documented that rewards diminish both intrinsic motivation and creativity, so this is mostly a moot point. But for the sake of argument:

A) The psychological effect of working for a church/patron is probably not analogous to, say, trying to produce a blog post that makes the front page of Digg. To borrow from Herzberg's two-factor theory, their patronage was more of a hygiene factor than a motivation factor.

B) You're only looking at the best pieces from the best artists. It's likely that the average artist was producing mostly shit in hopes of getting paid. In fact probably even the best artists were producing mostly shit in hopes of getting paid.

pg3• 18 years ago

It's likely that the average artist was producing mostly shit in hopes of getting paid. In fact probably even the best artists were producing mostly shit in hopes of getting paid.

The great artists couldn't bring themselves to produce shit, any more than great people in any field ever can. Show me an example of shit made by Leonardo or Van Eyck or Brueghel.

It's very well documented that rewards diminish both intrinsic motivation and creativity

In studies where they offer one group of undergrads money to complete some random task and another group does it for free? Things work differently at the other end of the expertise spectrum.

jey• 18 years ago

"It's very well documented that rewards diminish both intrinsic motivation and creativity"

Citation?

zandorg2• 18 years ago

I'm a pop musician, and I put out a few records, but I found that once committed to vinyl (not necessarily with the medium of CD-R), I got bored with those songs and couldn't enjoy them anymore. Vinyl is the most long-lasting medium for music, so this act of your music going on permanent art is more satisfying than the music itself.

cousin_it• 18 years ago

I read it as: "Produce great content for free and let Google make money off it." Does Seth see the conflict of interest? Or is it the actual reason behind the post?

known• 18 years ago

Being successful is key and money is an addon.

bmelina• 18 years ago

In some fields doing what you love won't pay your bills. But haven't you noticed that usually people that do what they love they are really good at it? And you keep wondering how he/she does it? A lot of people choose to work in a field that maybe it doesn't suits them or maybe because they have to because of the trends, but be sure that one day they will end up miserable and with no time to do what they really love because time may have passed.

Maybe you can't make money doing what you love

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