NMN: A Stable, Reliable NAD+Activator and Anti-Aging Molecule (2020)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7238909/

60 75 4 years ago

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This is an interesting topic. I've followed Dr. Sinclairs work for some time. For me specifically I personally did not experience any notable gains but I only used NMN for about 6 months and it was one of the more expensive supplements of the 50 or so that I take.

I've since switch back to just taking NAM daily since excess NMN is converted back to NAM for storage. I would like to learn how to improve the process of converting NAM -> NR -> NMN -> NAD+ but I have not found much literature on this process. Just flow diagrams. The literature explains that the bi-directional cycle of conversion slows with age but I can't find anything explaining what the specific mechanisms are that degrade with age and how to modify the root cause of the degradation.

ziddoap• 4 years ago

of the 50 or so that I take

I'm no doctor and have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about with respect to supplements, but my god that seems like just an absurd amount of supplements (especially if some of them are doing multiple things like a multivitamin or whatever). Do you take all 50 of these daily? Do you like... Blend them up so your not popping pills for 15 minutes straight every morning?

LinuxBender8• 4 years ago

I cycle some molecules up and down. Some molecules I take at different times of the day or week. Some can only be taken a couple times a week as they can be toxic if not used correctly. Some are safe to take daily. I have researched all of them extensively. Some of them I take at levels that would make people cringe as the known literature around some of them is incomplete.

I am not a fan of multivitamins though I do keep one around and rarely touch it. Most of them contain very low quality components, most notably the vitamin E which is nearly almost always alpha-tocopherol and since I am male that is a major risk for prostate cancer if not taken with the right balance of gamma-tocopherol and selenium. Rather I prefer to take the tocotrienols. Multivitamins also contain a low quality form of vitamin C in the form of ascorbic acid and that is a topic in and of itself. I prefer to get the majority of my vitamin C from green leafy vegetables using a high powered blender that acts as a juicer.

I do at times carry with me a small metal canister that can hold about 10-15 pills when I know I will be eating food someone else made, but most of that is for different formulas of garlic extracts, digestive enzymes, TUDCA, oregano oil and other things that assist with digestion and neutralization of pathogens in food.

If you are interested in these topics a good starting point is nih.gov, just be highly skeptical of any studies you find. Their search is awful so I would use google and put in "site:nih.gov some topic"

ck22• 4 years ago

NAM NR and NMN all use different absorption pathways and have different pitfalls.

There's good reason people stopped using NAM once there were alternatives available, topic well outside the scope of HN but not hard to google.

You cannot change the conversion process/rate, at least not with current knowledge, it is rate limited by multiple biological processes.

I strongly caution to use google scholar and not blogs/youtube for information.

Also everyone should be aware because of the high cost there is A LOT of counterfeit NMN out there, never buy unknown brands/sources.

LinuxBender8• 4 years ago

You cannot change the conversion process/rate, at least not with current knowledge

That is precisely the wall I have hit but I am a stubborn old bastard and will not give up.

balfirevic• 4 years ago

never buy unknown brands/sources

All NMN brands are unknown to me - how do I judge?

joshu3• 4 years ago

Do you have a list published somewhere?

LinuxBender8• 4 years ago

I do not. I used to list my methods on a website but I prefer to have people research this topic themselves and fully understand it as their physiology and pre-existing conditions will differ from mine. What works for me may have negative side effects on others and I would prefer they take responsibility for the trial-and-error process they will have to go through. I've even stopped using the scientific method as it is just too slow given the complexity of all the systems in a mammal and how they interact with one another and I could not in good conscience promote that for others.

evo_99• 4 years ago

Been taking this for nearly 5 years. Shits the real deal. No pretending when you’re competing still against 20-something that barely washed out of their pro nhl career… but yeah not like being 55 and playing high level hockey is any sort of ‘proof’ around here (or my multiple sets of 20-25 pull-ups I do regularly and I could barely do 10 when I was 30).

bilsbie• 4 years ago

What’s your dose and brand? Why NMN vs NR?

mmh00002• 4 years ago

These are great questions, I'd also like to know dose frequency.

polotics• 4 years ago

Also, what about NMN versus Niagen (Tru)? Also as I understand these molecule may be fragile, do you keep them in the fridge?

agrothberg• 4 years ago

I take 250mg / day of NMN from NOVOS Labs (https://novoslabs.com/product/novos-boost/). I can't definitively say I feel the effects.

The site offers a nice write up on NMN: https://novoslabs.com/nicotinamide-mononucleotide-nmn-and-lo....

evo_99• 4 years ago

1gram every morning except my rest day when I take rapamycin.

alivebyscience.com (they recently changed their name and I can’t remember how to spell it sorry ha ha)

evo_99• 4 years ago

I’ve been taking NR too on and off as well, in my experience it doesn’t seem to have much effect on my athletic performance. So for me I’m sticking with an NMN even though there’s more clinical studies on nr at the moment

subrat_rout• 4 years ago

How are you taking it? And what does it cost?

throwaway_4ever2• 4 years ago

Before taking this, please read https://www.foundmyfitness.com/topics/nicotinamide-mononucle... and the possible link between NMN and increased cancer prevalence. I believe the research is still too early and there is a risk with this compound.

evo_99• 4 years ago

Look up Dr. Standfield on YouTube he has a great health channel on all this stuff and digs into everything including NMN/nr and all the backing metadata / Cochrane research papers…

david-gpu• 4 years ago

Do you also supplement it with anything else, such as TMG or another methyl group donor, as Sinclair recommends?

Also, if you don't mind, what is your dose per unit of body weight, frequency and/or delivery method (oral/sublingual)?

evo_99• 4 years ago

I do. Along with Apigenin, and a few other new molecules.

Sublingual.

sometimeshuman• 4 years ago

If I had to guess, when you started taking it at 50 you were also exceptionally fit and healthy for your age. Would you invest that money in a supplement if you were already over the hill ?

According to Dr.Sinclair (referenced in another comment), the NMN most people buy is probably worthless given it isn't stable. I buy it anyway because I have no better option and it doesn't burden my budget.

evo_99• 4 years ago

True, I played high-level hockey my whole life. And have actively worked out at a very high level most of my life… However I noticed everything dropping off around 50 and nothing seem to curb that. Especially my on ice speed which used to be always in the mid-20s and had dropped to the upper teens…

After starting NMN particular my VO two max and on ice speed went back up to my norm and have remained the same and actually gone back up and he’s always 22 to 25 miles an hour, at least when I’m playing against other high-end talent…. Sorry for the Poor grammar working out and using voice Rec

joshfraser2• 4 years ago

You can also take NAD+ intravenously. IV clinics in most major cities will be able to offer it and it's nothing short of incredible. The difference to energy levels and mental clarity after taking it are both immediate and undeniable.

mmh00002• 4 years ago

In your experience, how long does the effect last for? At around $600/treatment (at least according to a quick Google), it better last awhile.

joshfraser2• 4 years ago

I do them once every two months. The benefits are most noticeable for the first couple weeks.

gavinray• 4 years ago

Why pay a bunch of money for that?

Anyone can buy bacteriostatic water from medical supply websites, along with syringes, themselves. I can personally recommend Hospira brand.

Just give yourself the IV.

GordonS3• 4 years ago

Can you IM it too? IM usually has a slight drop in bioavailability vs IV, but it's much easier.

amelius2• 4 years ago

What if the substance comes as a powder? How do you know if it dissolves completely? It just sounds too risky.

cjbgkagh3• 4 years ago

DIY NAD+ IV will give an uncomfortable rush if you take too much too quickly. I presume you mean infusion which needs to be done slowly with a drip or an infusion pump.

cjbgkagh3• 4 years ago

I've tried high dose NAD+ IV and the effect wears off too quickly for me for it to be worth it. The 750mg dose only giving a boost for less than 24hrs.

tguvot3• 4 years ago

been taking not exactly NMN, but NR (tru niagen) for a few months. my liver enzymes (alt/ast) first time in a very long time are back in proper range.

samstave• 4 years ago

Do you drink a lot? Were you drinking a lot before you started taking them, and reduced drinking - or did you change anything other that adding NR/NMN to your intake?

tguvot3• 4 years ago

Drinking same as before (1.5l-3l at any given day). Also got some different multivitamins, but I doubt that they changed anything.

There are some mouse studies that nmn/nr improve alt/ast level, but it not really clear is it just enzyme level normalization or does it actually repair anything. So i am not sure at this point of time is it improvement or "improvement"

Edit. in case by drinking it was implied alcohol and not water, no. just some wine here and there. no big changes

joshu3• 4 years ago

i am a bit wary of any doctor with a podcast

evo_99• 4 years ago

Since a lot of people are asking me different questions in this thread I figured I’d let people know if you wanna just email me look at my profile and reach out. Happy to share my entire stack with anybody that wants to see it…

Or if you happen to be a high-level hockey player in Denver we’re starting to look for a few guys to fill out our winter roster =)

nootropicat• 4 years ago

I tried both NMN and NR. NMN did absolutely nothing for me. NR is noticeable - can sustain heavy exertion for much longer. Much faster recovery.

anoplus• 4 years ago

Taken NMN 500g pill in morning for the first time last week, for 4 days. I felt physically and mentally very energized. My sleep length reduced to only couple of hours at night, so I stopped completely. First night after stopping was completely sleepless. Second night was solid and back to normal sleep pattern and energy.

sinenomine• 4 years ago

The problem with NMN and NAD+ activators in general is that these don't[1] seem to increase (even) the mouse lifespan in ITP trials[2], which is more or less a benchmark for preclinical testing of longevity-modulating substances. On the other hand, there is a handful of substances that passed this trial with evidence of some positive influence over lifespan, at least in mice, and as such are interesting candidates for human trials: [3][4][5][6]. There is also a very interesting class of substances that seem not only to extend lifespan in mice but even to rejuvenate some aspects of their physiology upon a short course of treatment: senolytics[7][8].

1. https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2021/04/the-latest-data-...

2. https://www.nia.nih.gov/research/dab/interventions-testing-p...

3. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41573-020-0067-7

4. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24245565/

5. https://www.nature.com/articles/nature08221

6. https://faseb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1096/faseb...

7. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-39...

8. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01923-y

NMN: A Stable, Reliable NAD+Activator and Anti-Aging Molecule (2020)

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