High IQ linked to drug use

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/14/high-iq-linked-to-drug-use/?hpt=hp_t2

by orky56 • 15 years ago

111 84 15 years ago

thechart.blogs.cnn.com

hayeah• 15 years ago

I can't take a newsflash seriously if they don't even link to the original study.

Are the socioeconomic levels of these higher IQ individuals controlled? How exactly did they select their sample for the study? And they mentioned marijuana, cocaine, heroine in one breath, as though those are the same drug. Surely different population groups use those drugs to different extents.

waterlesscloud• 15 years ago

Also, "A high IQ is defined as a score between 107 and 158."

Is that standard? Isn't that about 1/2 to 4 standard deviations on IQ charts? Seems like a wide range.

gcanyon• 15 years ago

Here's a reasonable-seeming argument why we should expect smarter people to be more likely to use drugs: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundament...

daemin• 15 years ago

Could it be that the smarter/brighter individuals are bored (not stimulated/challenged enough) by the average education system and so they find a release elsewhere with drugs, as something that will make the boredom less painful?

skore• 15 years ago

I have also heard, a number of times now, that a lot of smart people use drugs because it "makes people more interesting", which is probably code for "I numb my own brain to be able to strike a casual conversation". (My primary example would be having this as a direct quote by Christopher Hitchens. I seem to also recall that there was a House MD episode of a genius putting himself on a controlled substance to be a little more numb because he would otherwise scare away the girlfriend that he loved with his rambling mind.)

So yes, some people might be searching for a thrill because what they are supposed to do does not deliver that. But others just really want to "be normal" and drugs are a quick way to get there, strangely.

fourk• 15 years ago

This link seems to have much more specific data from the original study:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111114221018.ht...

EDIT: The abstract is available from the publishing journal in the following link. The full text was unfortunately not available without a subscription of some form.

http://jech.bmj.com/content/early/2011/10/28/jech-2011-20025...

buff-a• 15 years ago

FTA:It's not clear why people with high childhood IQs are more likely to use illegal drugs. "We suspect they may be more open to new experiences and are more sensation seeking," says White.

The articles shy away from the elephant in the room which is that the UK and US gvts have a massive legal and propaganda effort to prevent drug use. Indeed the idea that only stupid people do drugs is part of this propaganda.

So maybe its because a higher IQ allows one to realize that the War on Drugs is fucking irrational bullshit and magical thinking and act accordingly (i.e. to choose for oneself).

In a world where broccoli is illegal because its "evil", the headline could have been "High IQ linked to broccoli eating".

Here's a question: is a high IQ linked to smoking? How about alcohol?

Update: So alcohol is also correlated with iq too.

bambax• 15 years ago

> How about alcohol?

From the article:

> The lead researcher says he isn't surprised by the findings. "Previous research found for the most part people with high IQs lead a healthy life, but that they are more likely to drink to excess as adults," says James White a psychologist at Cardiff University in the United Kingdom.

What the article doesn't explore is the fact that drugs are expensive; isn't it possible that drug use is correlated with revenue?

The study apparently didn't make a difference between addicts and occasional users.

IQ is also correlated with revenue (probably because that's what it actually measures: socio-economic class), and so that may be a part of the explanation, at least for "recreational" drugs.

porfirio6• 15 years ago

"IQ is also correlated with revenue (probably because that's what it actually measures: socio-economic class)"

False. Charles Murray compared brothers of the same household of different intelligence levels, and found significant disparities in income.

http://www.eugenics.net/papers/murray.html (article originally appeared in The Telegraph)

It's more accurate to say socioeconomic class measures IQ, rather than the other way around. To oversimplify, high IQ people are more productive, IQ at adulthood is heritable to a great extent (~80% of variation in IQ is due to genetic variation), so 1 + 1 = rich families have higher IQ children. Imagine if people were paid based on how tall they are, and replace IQ with height, and it'd be the same -> Tall parents + high heritability for height -> rich families have taller offspring. People don't recognize this with regards to IQ because they ultimately don't believe IQ is highly heritable, which it is.

Links:

IQ and productivity: http://www.onetest.com.au/awms/Upload/documents/whitepapers/...

IQ and heritability: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ (first paragraph)

greyish_water• 15 years ago

From the ScienceDaily article:"The findings held true, irrespective of anxiety/depression during adolescence, parental social class, and lifetime household income."

Alex39172• 15 years ago

"What the article doesn't explore is the fact that drugs are expensive"

Not really. Doing enough drugs to be counted as a 'drug user' shouldn't cost more than five or ten bucks a year.

roel_v• 15 years ago

"Here's a question: is a high IQ linked <...>? How about alcohol?"

Not sure what you are getting at with this question, but according to TFA, yes it is.

(maybe I'm just dense and your point went over my head)

brador• 15 years ago

How about High IQ = more stressful employment = more recreational drug use?

I'd be interested in an addition of an "average alcohol consumption" variable to this dataset.

electromagnetic• 15 years ago

I think there's potentially lots of reasons why a high IQ would lead to drug/alcohol use.

Stress for me is a killer, by Friday night if I've had a hard week I'm either wishing I still had a pot dealer or I'm hitting up the liquor store for some whiskey.

Similarly high IQ is linked to depression, again likely for a mix of reasons from social isolation (aka being smarter than everyone) and having a greater ability for introspection into ones life (aka I could have done more with my life, etc.). Depression is often a major factor in alcoholism and drug abuse.

The question I wonder is does a high IQ predetermine what drugs a person is going to use. Smart people I've noticed seem to target pot and hallucinogenics. It always seems to be the idiots and suggestibles that end up with the heroin addiction.

billpatrianakos4• 15 years ago

I'm going to speak from experience here. My IQ is in the range talked about in the article, I'm a few years from 30, and I do have a history of polydrug use/abuse. It seems intelligent people are also more likely to become depressed as well. My thoughts are that people like the ones described in the study as being more intelligent are more thoughtful, analytical, and sensitive. They need an outlet and drug use is a form of self medication.

I doubt is has as much to do with economics as some would argue. Some of the poorest people are addicts and they find a way. I myself have been out there on the streets with a negative bank balance yet somehow managed to find my fix through various forms of petty theft and manipulation. If I could produce $20 bills right now like I used to back then I'd be a rich man. Addicts find a way.

Of course I'm sure a majority of them were not addicts but casual users. I see some comments suggesting that a single use of drugs within the past year doesn't count somehow. It's as if to imply that drug use is far more common than it is. I agree that more people use drugs recreationally than we really know but I'd venture to guess that there are far more people completely abstinent from any type of drug use than there are those who use once a year or more. That kind of thinking comes from users themselves who are surrounded by other users (ranging from rare, casual use, to full blown addiction and abuse) and begin to think the rest of the world behaves as they do.

I'm on the board of the Heroin Epidemic Relief Organization (HERO) and the numbers we're seeing agree with this study. We're seeing a trend where students who are more intelligent (based on standardized tests, GPA, and, if available, IQ tests are using drugs more often than average students and below. We're talking about 6th through 12th grade kids. That study was done by the Robert Crown Center here in Chicago and I'm not sure if it's published yet but if it is it would be on their website.

maximusprime5• 15 years ago

"Indeed the idea that only stupid people do drugs is part of this propaganda."

That's not propaganda. It's numbers. Doing drugs = high risk. And it's stupid to take high risks with your body, unless you don't mind dying young.

I've never understood why many 'tech' people are so pro drugs. Why do you need it?

mistermann• 15 years ago

Doing certain drugs = high risk.

sp4rki• 15 years ago

High risk? I'd argue driving on heavy traffic a payday is a whole lot more dangerous than smoking a joint while you wait for rush hour to pass. Doing drugs can be as dangerous as skydiving without a parachute or as safe as staying home a friday night... It's not the drugs that are dangerous, it's the users; the same way it's not that a toy is dangerous, but that you're giving the toy to a two year old when it meant for six year olds and up.

billpatrianakos4• 15 years ago

    "Why do you need it?"

No one needs it. I doubt anyone will argue they need it unless they're addicted to something that has produced withdrawl in which case they really do need it. But the problem with this kind of mentality is that it lumps all drugs in as "bad". This is part of the failure of our current prevention and education system. Telling the kids all drugs are bad leads to more use. They'll try some pot first, see nothing bad happened then figure they were told lies. Same with addictive drugs like heroin. Usually nothing goes wrong the first time (except overdose which is more rare for first timers than you'd think) so they think they've been lied to and then only later do they pay the price for their experimentation.

We need to educate people about drugs differently and the justice system needs to stop persecuting users and addicts as if they were burglars, rapists, and killers.

First, we need to put marijuana in the same class as alcohol and cigarettes. A little weed doesn't hurt anyone. Abuse of it does and that's what we need to teach. That marijuana abuse hurts you by taking you away from more important things in life. The drug itself can't really do too much damage. I'd equate it to alcohol use. A beer or two after work won't hurt you and getting drunk occasionally won't either. It's the consequences of abuse that hurt you, not the substance. There are plenty of completely functional successful people who drink beer regularly (not abusively or for escape) and the same goes for smoking a joint.

Then we need to get real with people and let them know what really happens when you use stimulants, opioids, etc. Let them know that the first time is dangerous but that the real negative effect isn't seen until later. Then educate people on the reasons why people use, help them spot the reasons in themselves, and explain the progression from curious one time use to full blown addiction. Lumping them all in as bad and evil is making this problem worse.

Then our justice system needs to provide treatment rather than punishment. The stigma attached to users is so unfair and hurts their chances for recovery. Once you take someone out of society and label them as "bad", "criminal", or "addict" they'll slip into that role and play the part.

I myself am a recovered heroin addict and on the board of the Heroin Epidemic Relief Organization. We're seeing huge progress by doing just what I described here. We're focusing on Will County, Illinois which is just outside of Chicago. We have politicians on board with us and we're doing a ton to change how drug users are treated and how drug education happens. Will County will likely become the model for the test of the country one day. We have a Drug Court program which gives those charged with certain felonies a chance to have their case dropped if they complete a minimum of one year in a treatment program that includes therapy, inpatient, outpatient rehab, then a halfway house and regular weekly, biweekly, and monhthly court appearances (as you move through the program and show progress) along with scheduled and random drug screenings. Participants are in the program for as long as they need to become sober (maximum 4 years I believe) and must attend school if they have no high school equivalency and must get a job which the court helps with. They also strongly encourage participants to attend college but not all do. Failure to complete the program means pleading guilty and being sentenced to the full term of whatever sentence you would have gotten had you not participated. (I do believe there might be a trial before that, I forgot).

We're also doing the education thing I mentioned too and it's working! Every county in Illinois is looking over at us to see how we're beating this thing. It's saving the government boatloads of money to make drug offenders productive citizens rather than letting them waste a prison cell and become burdens on the state.

I'm sorry to rant but whenever I hear someone generalizing drugs and drug users and repeat the misinformation the war on drugs has been letting loose I lose it. The point here is that not all drugs are created equal. Smoking pot should be a choice like smoking tobacco or drinking alcohol. And pretty much everything we were taught about drugs and their users is wrong.

rick888• 15 years ago

"So maybe its because a higher IQ allows one to realize that the War on Drugs is fucking irrational bullshit and magical thinking and act accordingly (i.e. to choose for oneself)."

I think it has more to do with the fact that people with higher IQs don't feel like they are a part of regular society and it's a way to cope with it.

Many people that are depressed use illegal and legal drugs to make themselves feel better. I have a feeling there is also a higher level of depression in people with high IQs as well.

I would be interested to see if the same holds true with people that have lower than average IQs.

"The articles shy away from the elephant in the room which is that the UK and US gvts have a massive legal and propaganda effort to prevent drug use"

Illegal drugs aren't good or healthy for you. I feel like you will most likely spread propaganda in the opposite direction and it's just as bad.

porfirio6• 15 years ago

I know a fair amount about IQ, having studied it a bit, and I'm surprised. IQ correlates pretty strongly, with law abiding behavior, at the very least, not going to jail. High IQ people are less socially dysfunctional than average and low IQ people, eg see the table here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve

As for the sex difference between men and women of high IQ, fewer women in general do drugs, so it's easier for high IQ women to rack up a higher multiple of drug use over their average IQ female counterparts.

I looked at the Psychology Today/Kanazawa link, and it says that the relationship is insignificant in America. I.e., the relationship between childhood IQ and drug use is a British phenomenon. Maybe the intelligent are more decadent in Britain? If Kanazawa represents the data accurately, this whole IQ-drugs relationship is BS, in the American setting. Bye bye grand social theorizing.

jbooth• 15 years ago

"Not going to jail" != "law abiding behavior". Especially when you get class issues involved.

Getting picked up for smoking pot or petty vandalism in the suburbs often ends in a trip home to mom and dad after a very stern scare. In the city, it's another statistic for this month's arrests.

guard-of-terra• 15 years ago

I think it might be because, as Wil Shipley pointed out http://blog.wilshipley.com/2007/12/on-saying-goodbye.html (some) smart people tend to be miserable because their wits let them skip the mechanisms put in place in human mind to prevent it from feeling miserable despite actually being so.

Also http://blog.wilshipley.com/2007/03/crazy-talk.html

shin_lao• 15 years ago

Correlation isn't causation. What's the next study? People with brown eyes do more drugs? Seriously.

Jach• 15 years ago

I don't think anyone here is arguing that smoking pot (or in general "doing drugs") raises IQ scores... Nor do I see arguing that high IQ scores cause pot use, just that the presence of a high IQ seems to, if the study is to be believed, increase the probability of pot use. Correlations and probabilities are interesting for themselves, and can in fact be used to imply causation. http://www.amazon.com/Causality-Reasoning-Inference-Judea-Pe...

Daniel_Newby2• 15 years ago

> What's the next study? People with brown eyes do more drugs?

Actually, that needs to be studied! Mutations in the melanocortin-1 receptor (the "red head" gene) affect eye color and also affect sensitivity to opioids (painkillers).

sev• 15 years ago

Boredom has probably something to do with it.

keys1234• 15 years ago

If you have a high IQ then it is that much easy for you, 1)to find what you want (age<20), like drugs 2)and be richer(age>30) than many folks , so you can drink a lot.

steve-howard• 15 years ago

Dunno about finding what you want. I have a reasonably high IQ, but I couldn't tell you the first thing about where to find a dealer. I didn't even drink before I turned 21, not for lack of wanting.

itmag• 15 years ago

High IQ people are probably more in their head and thus seeking out the sensory connectedness that "normal" people take for granted.

robinhouston• 15 years ago

It’s a shame the article itself is not freely available, but even the published abstract gives some interesting details that the CNN report didn’t mention.

http://jech.bmj.com/content/early/2011/10/28/jech-2011-20025...

In particular the abstract makes it clear that the measured associated is independent of life-course socioeconomic position.

Actually a quick search of Google Scholar throws up a number of papers on this topic, most of which seem to confirm the association reported here.

This one http://personal.lse.ac.uk/KANAZAWA/pdfs/RGP2010.pdf looks quite interesting: “The Savanna-IQ Interaction Hypothesis suggests that more intelligent individuals may be more likely to acquire and espouse evolutionarily novel values than less intelligent individuals. Consumption of alcohol, tobacco, and drugs is evolutionarily novel, so the Savanna-IQ Interaction Hypothesis would predict that more intelligent individuals are more likely to consume these substances.”

super_mario• 15 years ago

Nothing is said about adult IQ. It only says that kids with higher IQ end up using drugs (I can see that, it's depressing being intelligent). But somehow I doubt that adult drug users have higher IQ as well.

schrijver• 15 years ago

It’s kind of odd that the article doesn’t look at the social aspects. Different social groups have different patterns in and attitudes towards drug consumption. These patterns change over time. Note, research is based on findings from 1970. In 1970, drugs might still be tied to counterculture, and thus to people with on avarage higher education (and on avarage higher iq), while in 2011 drug use seems to appear in much more diverse layers of society…

csomar• 15 years ago

A new British study finds children with high IQs are more likely to use drugs as adults than people who score low on IQ tests as children.

I stopped here. The title should be "Drug use linked to High IQ". That's completely different.

adamtmca• 15 years ago

Higher IQ = go to college/ university = experimentation.

davidcuddeback• 15 years ago

That was my first thought when reading the article. There's probably a correlation between high IQ and college attendance, just as there's probably a correlation between college attendance and drug use.

mqqq2• 15 years ago

You guys are full of shi*t. You actually believe that high IQ means more intelligent. And now you find an excuse to your drug use and say, "see, I use drugs because I'm smart". why don't you guys just admit that you guys are too weak minded and the only reason you use drugs is because you are too weak to a avoid peer presure.

S_A_P• 15 years ago

What does my Karma need to be to get a down vote link? People use drugs for a lot of reasons, Correlation != Causation comes to mind here.

mqqq2• 15 years ago

I meant to say that IQ is a bad measurement of intelligence. If you want to get high and legally try epazote. It has many uses but few know that it can also be smoked. You can even plant it on your back yard and it will grow back every year.

tomlin3• 15 years ago

As someone who suffers from ADHD-PI, I can't help but wonder a possible co-relation here. Before my occasional marijuana use a few years ago, I wasn't aware of my concentration issues. Like many others, I thought I was just lazy or unmotivated. When smoking marijuana for the first time, my friends lay around unmotivated and relaxed while I couldn't stop thinking about working on one of my many "one day" projects. This eventually lead me to getting tested for ADHD. Now I am on pharma, but the benefits appear the same.

I feel like drugs helped me realize a lot about myself. While I am not so sure IQ is a reliable measurement, I can definitely say I can handle a lot more information and make good use of that information much better than I had ever before.

I've done some research on brain wave activity and dopamine receptors/activity. It seems that people with ADHD tend to have misaligned brain wave activity and stimulants manage to align this activity up to a point. My theory, from my own experiences, is that there is an optimal brain wave frequency and people with ADHD are suffering from dopamine deficiency that skews below optimal frequency, and too much dopamine activity skews above optimal frequency. Further, I've noted that those who experience drugs as a depressant tend to have normal dopamine activity whereas those who experience drugs as a stimulant appear to have low dopamine activity. It's just a wild theory with no medical evidence - I'm just trying to understand the pattern. I would love to hear others chime in here and adjust my theory as necessary.

I've been told that alcohol or marijuana makes one drowsy or lazy. For me, it stimulates - until a point - then I also become drowsy and lazy. This is where I believe I've gone past optimal dopamine activity. For the average person with normal dopamine activity, passing this threshold seems to happen much sooner.

zafka• 15 years ago

I think there is some validity to your hypothesis.

pnathan• 15 years ago

That is an interesting hypothesis. I have no medical citations to wave around, but it Makes Sense To Me, An Ignorant Layman(tm).

sliverstorm• 15 years ago

I've noted that those who experience drugs as a depressant tend to have normal dopamine activity whereas those who experience drugs as a stimulant appear to have low dopamine activity

I think in general you are going to find depressants will act like depressants, and stimulants will act as stimulants. In your theory, focus on the inflection point where (e.g. alcohol) a depressant acts as a stimulant. It is a stimulant for all people when consumed in the right amount, though it also depends on other factors. Some days alcohol will make me stay up all night, some days it will put me to sleep in 15 minutes.

tomlin3• 15 years ago

> I think in general you are going to find depressants will act like depressants, and stimulants will act as stimulants.

I believe this to be true, although, I am talking about those who suffer with ADHD or other dopamine-related disorder.

> It is a stimulant for all people when consumed in the right amount, though it also depends on other factors. Some days alcohol will make me stay up all night, some days it will put me to sleep in 15 minutes.

My theory is, a substance is a stimulant or depressant relative to your dopamine (or brain wave activity). Too much dopamine reception? Depressant. Too little dopamine reception? Stimulant. It has been reported that average people taking methylphenidate (ADHD medication) experience drowsiness (too much dopamine reception) as oppose to those who have dopamine receptor deficiencies, find the drug as a stimulant (too little dopamine reception).

Also, dopamine levels often vary throughout a day for most people, so your perspective would hold true with regard to this theory.

pingu• 15 years ago

What medication gave you the same benefits as weed, if you don't mind me asking?

My experiences very closely match yours, fwiw. I tried Ritalin but wasn't satisfied at all, and am 'back on' weed.

NyxWulf• 15 years ago

My experience with pharma was similar to the GP sans the weed. I take Adderall.

tomlin3• 15 years ago

Right now I am on Concerta, 54mg. I have tried higher dosages, but the drowsiness and inattentiveness came back. This is what originally lead me to believe that the effects (stimulant or depressant) of substances are relative to the person's dopamine reception. At a higher dose of Concerta, 72mg, I figured I'd end up being superhuman, but, surprisingly I ended up back where I started - inattentive and unmotivated. At Concerta 54mg, I've noticed marijuana will often push me over this threshold as well, causing the marijuana to act as a depressant where it was otherwise a stimulant.

Ritalin, while chemically similar, doesn't seem to provide the same benefits from those who've disclosed their experience (again, anecdotal). Concerta is once-a-day release-controlled dosage.

ihnorton• 15 years ago

There is some evidence that methylphenidate (ritalin) effects wave activity (synchronization/latency) see eg (not paywalled): http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v21/n2/full/1395347a.html

For some background see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P200

Darmani• 15 years ago

  high IQ is defined as a score between 107 and 158.

That means around 70% of the high IQ people in this study had an IQ between 107 and 120. Over 90% had an IQ less than 130. Don't go out and assume that smoking a joint will help you get into Mensa.

porfirio6• 15 years ago

This article doesn't tell us what we think it does.

In America, the relationship between drug use and high IQ is small or non-existent: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundament...

(Someone else linked this earlier)

Despite the UK being very similar to the US, on a global scale, the relationship between IQ and drug use is not the same across the herring pond. There are relationships between IQ and social indicators that are consistent across time and nations, and this isn't one of those. Whatever is causing this relationship in Britain is cultural - I doubt it's a feature of high intelligence, rather than just Brits who have high IQ.

signalsignal• 15 years ago

...and thus IQ is a poor indicator of success. People should get over the high scores others can get on tests and focus on something more substantial.

dubya• 15 years ago

Interesting, but this part is pretty weasily: "...told by parents and teachers that intelligent people didn't use drugs. Turns out, the adults _may_ have been wrong." As an unqualified statement, it is definitely wrong, and was demonstrably wrong at the time: Carl Sagan, Richard Feynman, Paul Erdos...

tryitnow• 15 years ago

My guess is that this phenomenon has something to do with boredom (as mentioned in the article). I have never studied IQ, but when I reflect on the IQ tests that I take I realize that a big part of my problem solving process involves rapidly imagining potential solutions and mentally "testing" them to see if they make sense.

Does anyone know what this type of thinking is called?

Anyways, that's how I think when I'm trying to solve a puzzle. I notice that the hard part is not in testing my imagined hypotheses, but in hypothesis generation. Where am I going with this? Imagination. I've noticed that my ability to rapidly imagine different scenarios is a key part of my ability to solve difficult problems. There are other components, like working memory, logic, etc, but imagination plays a big role. At least for me.

If what is true for me is true in general it could mean that people who are more inclined to imagine complex alternative worlds in their heads are also more likely to enjoy the "out of the ordinary" mental states provided by drugs and alcohol.

High IQ linked to drug use

Related Stories