TV, or not TV: the story of our bike box (2019)

https://www.vanmoof.com/blog/en/tv-bike-box

by EvgeniyZh • 4 years ago

137 52 4 years ago

vanmoof.com

stefs• 4 years ago

the necessity of this hack always makes me angrier than it should.

aardvarkr• 4 years ago

The world isn’t perfect mate, don’t let small things like this make you angry :)

stevekemp• 4 years ago

I actually feel pretty good about it.

All the faceless individuals who are involved in moving parcels probably have to throw them around constantly, stacking them, lifting them, moving them, taking them off, putting them on different pallets, trucks.

With no idea what's inside them, they probably don't care so much about being gentle. Or they might think "It must be well packed, people would know better".

Yet suddenly? The box has "fragile" written on it, indirectly, and people care. People take the time, they make the effort, and they genuinely try not to smash your (presumably new) TV.

csunbird• 4 years ago

The box had already stickers that prove the cargo is fragile, even before putting TV images on the boxes. It is just that the handlers do not care at all if the cargo is fragile or not, but they probably receive quite a lot of heat for improperly handling TVs and monitors, as the damage to those items are quite visible.

jp572• 4 years ago

Also, bikes are certainly assumed to be durable objects that can take a beating.

mlyle3• 4 years ago

"Fragile" stickers are overused and on way too many boxes that aren't. They can't be careful with everything with their expected level of productivity.

Most things that are marked "fragile"-- if they end up with a big gouge in the front of the box-- will probably be OK. But everyone knows that's super, super bad for a TV and whomever gets that TV is going to refuse delivery.

clsec2• 4 years ago

You would think that would be a good idea but my last TV arrived with a whole in the box.

unwind• 4 years ago

*hole I guess. Was the tv ok?

clsec2• 4 years ago

D'oh!

Yeah, there was a mark on the screen but everything was fine.

netsharc• 4 years ago

They didn't claim it reduced damages to 0, but down 70-80% from before.

You should tell Samsung to print "Nuclear bomb" on their boxes...

markstos• 4 years ago

We can hope for the future where TV companies are printing bicycles on their boxes.

billsmithaustin• 4 years ago

Clever idea but I wonder how long before the shippers figure out those are really bike boxes.

chrisseaton2• 4 years ago

I would guess the way they treat the boxes is likely subconscious, rather than based on an actual considered belief on whether they contain a TV or not.

ploum• 4 years ago

This is why this hack tells a lot about our society. We value television so highly that we take care of it as soon as we subconsciously think it’s a television.

Television is such a symbol that we start to abuse that symbol.

Pretty sad when you think about it.

stjohnswarts2• 4 years ago

It's almost certainly well known now. I don't know if they have time to look at the sender on every box though.

uoaei• 4 years ago

Modern shipping warehouses are so frenetic and fast-paced, there is literally zero time for conscious minds to register what is shown on any box.

is_true2• 4 years ago

I was at the post office the other day and there was a big flat box that said: "IT'S A FRAME. DO NOT BEND"

It's like the people working with boxes like to reshape things.

mlyle3• 4 years ago

Try to cram as many as you can on a truck, and then unload them and stack them somewhere, and resort, and cram as many of those as you can onto a different truck. See if you end up applying weird loads to boxes.

is_true2• 4 years ago

Boxes have symbols that show how to stack them, where the center of gravity is and a bunch of other things, if you are interested: ISO 780

loeg• 4 years ago

I've had friends complain about USPS bending vinyl records to fit them in a mailbox, for example.

rzzzt• 4 years ago

Can't find the story (I think it was on an Imgur post of a similar box), but in that one the sticker says "BEND ME NOW!" Reverse psychology.

jp572• 4 years ago

What I find interesting about this is that if you were to show typical folks a TV (out of the box) and an assembled bicycle, and ask which is fragile and which is not, essentially everyone would say the TV is fragile and, importantly, the bicycle is not fragile. After all, bicycles are meant to be ridden outdoors, in the rain, through all manner of conditions, bumping over curbs, falling over, etc.

When a TV is packed for shipping it actually becomes somewhat more durable. But it seems that when a bike is packed for shipping it seems it becomes more fragile than when assembled.

ndsipa_pomu• 4 years ago

I don't think it's that the bike is more fragile when shipped, but it's susceptible to different kinds of damage. Bike frames are optimised to be extremely strong in certain directions whilst using the minimum amount of material and certainly with carbon fibre, the frame "tubes" are incredibly strong to riding bumps, but can crack horribly when bumped from the side. Metal frames tend to be more resilient to sideways knocks, but the principle still applies.

When shipped in a large rectangular box (the most practical shape for a bike), there's more chance that the impact is going to be on the large face and that's the direction that bike frames are not optimised for.

cactus20933• 4 years ago

Clever idea, but I wish they would put this much thought & problem-solving effort into their bikes themselves. Their bikes have an auto-shifting system with hub gearing that is very prone to breaking. On a normal bike to avoid putting unnecessary strain on the drivetrain you learn to not shift under heavy load, in the middle of a heavy pedal stroke. With a bike that just decides to shift on its own you have no control over that so it will inevitably sometimes shift at the worst time. I don't understand how that design even makes it past the whiteboard stage, much less into the production product that has been shipping for years.

I guess maybe it's a fine bike for riding the bike paths of Amsterdam which is very flat, if you're very careful to never pedal hard and always let the motor do all the work. But in a more chaotic environment riding on the roads in a place that has hills, it's unusable. I had to return my bike after the shifting broke twice within a couple of weeks, and the internet is full of many, many stories from people with the same issue.

cowmoo728• 4 years ago

Google is sponsoring employees to lease Vanmoof S3 and X3. Anecdotally I've seen a huge increase in the number of S3 owners in the south bay area. I'm leasing the X3 myself.

I also agree on the auto shifting. I'm an experienced cyclist and own a number of bikes and do regular weekend rides in the mountains. The auto shifting on vanmoof bikes is absolutely awful for me and caused horrible janky shifts while I was putting torque through the system. The gearing is also all wrong, since the cadence is way too low in most gears and at the top speed. Thankfully vanmoof added manual shifting into a fairly recent update.

But on the other hand, my non cyclist wife loves auto shifting. She rarely puts power into the pedals and likes the low cadence for easy cruising. She just uses the turbo button whenever she wants to accelerate. So it's clearly designed for flat roads and easy riding for non cyclists.

bombcar5• 4 years ago

If there's auto shifting there's a computer somewhere, and so you'd think a firmware update that made it so that it wouldn't auto-shift under heavy load could be applied (call it semi-auto mode or something); then you could leave it in auto but if you wanted it to shift when pushing hard just let off the pedals a bit and it'd do so.

KennyBlanken• 4 years ago

If the gearing range is universally too high for the kind of riding you do, you can get any bike shop to swap the rear cassette to a larger one, or the front chain ring(s) to smaller ones. The chain may need to be shortened.

sparrc• 4 years ago

But in a more chaotic environment riding on the roads in a place that has hills, it's unusable

I ride my vanmoof in Seattle (very hilly and urban) and to say the auto-shift is "unusable" is a huge exaggeration IMO. It occasionally catches me out when I'm pedaling hard but for the most part it works OK.

Also, they've supported manual shifting for almost a year now: https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/31/22649901/vanmoof-s3-x3-au...

cactus20933• 4 years ago

The manual shifting is a big improvement at least, I didn't realize it was officially supported. Back when I had the bike almost 2 years ago there was the 3rd party Moofer app that supported it but Van Moof the company was very adamant that even installing this app would void your warranty. Which was another decision that makes me feel negatively towards the company overall.

CoastalCoder• 4 years ago

What's the incentive structure for careful handling of packages?

E.g., I think delivery drivers have quotas for speed and completeness. But those are also easily measured by existing systems.

But with shipping damage, is there currently a good way to assign blame? Seems like you'd need a way to attest that everything was okay prior to each handoff.

I know shock sensors, etc. exist. But I'm guessing they're reserved for expensive items?

bombcar5• 4 years ago

They do exist and are usually used for expensive items or pallets - https://www.uline.com/Grp_332/Damage-Indicators

For truckload pallets, you either contract with the shipper end-to-end or you require them to allocate blame. The term FOB comes in here - you want stuff "FOB destination" which means it's the sellers problem until you receive it (FOB origin means it is your problem once it leaves the seller's warehouse).

This is why truckload shipments always tell you to examine the pallet before the driver leaves.

For things shipped UPS, etc, they're often smaller and the shipper just eats damage, not worth filing claims.

Note that the stickers from Uline are to show you that the pallet has been jostled/hit even if it physically "looks good".

rambambram• 4 years ago

If you people want to do Dutch bikes because of esthetics, consider other brands like Cortina or BSP. If they are available abroad, that is. I had a lightweight but sturdy Gazelle for some time. Now a BSP. Both matte black, strong frame, etc.

Vanmoof has beautiful bikes, but one of the things I don't like about it is the sitting position. The steer is basically not higher than the frame. Very bad for back, shoulders and wrists. It even pains me when I only see people riding that bike here. That position is not maintainable for a longer time, especially if you're a desk worker.

What I did with my bikes - which had a slightly higher steer, but not enough - is turn the steering pen towards the saddle and then put the steer back and turn it slightly upwards with the ends. I also had a longer re-adjustable steering pen, which was perfect. See here for a pic: https://www.theredpanther.org/?module=timeline&link=1&title=...

Shivatron• 4 years ago

The steer is basically not higher than the frame. Very bad for back, shoulders and wrists. ... That position is not maintainable for a longer time, especially if you're a desk worker.

A slight forward lean is desirable. Sitting bolt upright on a bike makes it very hard to engage your biggest, most efficient muscles: your glutes and hamstrings. This is also why the "athletic position" is universal to just about every physical activity; the slight crouch is similar to the natural position on a bike. Those larger muscles help stabilize your pelvis, reducing the force on your shoulders, arms, and wrists. https://www.pedalpt.com/upright-bicycling/

(There are other benefits too—the bike's handling improves as weight is balanced between the front and rear wheels and the center of gravity is lowered—but I'll assume we're talking about purely recreational/daily needs riding where such concerns are secondary.)

TV, or not TV: the story of our bike box (2019)

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