Korg NTS-2 DIY oscilloscope and wave generator kit

https://www.korg.com/us/products/dj/nts_2_pt/index.php

by dtagames • 4 years ago

123 56 4 years ago

armitron• 4 years ago

Like NTS-1, super-overpriced garbage but plenty will buy because it has KORG written on it.

Not disagreeing, but what’s the non-overpriced alternative for an affordable oscilloscope with 4 CV inputs? The Mordax Data is almost twice the cost and takes up space in a modular rack.

sigstoat• 4 years ago

i’d check the list of hardware supported by sigrok and see if any of it is cheap enough, then you could use a PC for the display which would be much more convenient.

something like the labjack u3 would probably suffice with a bit of signal conditioning. (and learning how to do that would be way more educational and relevant than snapping together a no-solder kit.)

kabes• 4 years ago

Yep. I'm selling my mordax data for this

Karliss• 4 years ago

I am not familar with audio oriented solutions and it will be hard to precisely match all the audio features and price with electronics scope. But as reference point 200$ is the price point where you can get some of the proper lower end electronics oscilloscopes. Even for low end electronics scopes most of the specs will be orders of magnitude better (except 4 channels and some of the audio oriented features), also better screen and enough engineering budget to create proper case. Lower end 4 channel scopes will start at the 400$ range. You can get some of 4ch Hantek USB based scopes in the 200$ range, although no LCD and must be connected to a computer. Some of the DSO200 series from Miniware are in the 100$, only up to 2 channels and less audio oriented features but much nicer LCD and case. The firwmare for DSO200 is semi open source so it might be possible to make a version which is more optimized for audio usecase. Note some of the listings for DSO200 series mention 4ch but it's 2 analog + 2digital channels

At the end of day for people who will actually use it convenience probably beats other factors and having exactly right set of features, ability directly plug audio connectors, UI and software optimized for audio workflow can be preferable even if comparing raw specs and build quality to electronic tools makes it feels like a cheap DIY/kit or toy.

qux_ca• 4 years ago

There is the vpme Zeroscope which is ~180€ built and takes 6hp for 2 channels.

Compared to it and the Mordax Data, the Korg offering is interesting.

Personally, I use an Expert Sleepers ES-9 connected to my laptop with VCV Rack scopes and spectrum analyzers. The ES-9 is a great Swiss army knife module, albeit greedy on the +12V rail and somewhat costly. I'm still longing for a proper 4 channels scope.

buescher• 4 years ago

Just as a value comparison - the Rigol DS1054Z is a real 4-channel oscilloscope and is $429 MSRP. The target markets are different, of course.

postalrat• 4 years ago

The NTS-2 is overpriced. The NTS-1 is ok-priced.

naikrovek• 4 years ago

"overpriced" is likely, "garbage" is a very long stretch, to me.

you don't get to define "garbage" for everyone.

greggsy• 4 years ago

To me, the value lies beyond the hardware, which is likely just off the shelf parts.

The documentation looks really nice, and it’s extremely rare for a company to provide any printed material with their hardware, other than the multi language safety card. Many will just provide a basic how-to support page to get you along your merry way, but this looks superb, and a great way to get people learning. I wouldn’t be surprised if the bulk of development costs lie in that book.

The will also be providing firmware updates, patches and quality enhancements, which are likely to be much better than your open-source project in GitHub with a moderate client base.

kongowenfloo• 4 years ago

That book costs $70 and just inflates overall price of the device. You can buy it separately on the page of its author.

coldtea• 4 years ago

Yes, $230 such overprice. It should be given as a gift with child meals in McDonalds... /s

jerrysievert2• 4 years ago

the korg is actually fairly cheap for the market. the current market leader (mordax data) is 50% more expensive.

keyle• 4 years ago

Also note https://bjooks.com/products/patch-tweak-with-moog

trasz4• 4 years ago

Or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hfdSrK46EE, while we're at it.

Eduard• 4 years ago

Am I missing the price? How much does it cost?

Azrael3000• 4 years ago

230$ apparently [0]

[0] https://www.kraftmusic.com/brands/korg/synthesizers/nts2

tomduncalf2• 4 years ago

Ouch, I'd have been interested for around half the price!

qwezxcrty• 4 years ago

That's way too expensive!!!! Instead of this crap, buy yourself a proper entry level oscilloscope. You can get a 100MHz 1GSas Rigol or Siglent for less than €300, which is enough for me locking lasers every day.

dal2• 4 years ago

Might need an adapter to 3.5mm and does not have a signal generator but this does not have to be that expensive.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004182746197.html

blub2• 4 years ago

Such bargains exist because the manufacturers treat workers poorly and skimp on safety - many products contain toxic chemicals, may catch fire, contain sharp parts, etc. There’s also zero recourse should the product cause damage.

dal2• 4 years ago

Wow, you can't really please everybody.. People are complaining about it being too expensive and now too cheap. What shall it be?

trasz4• 4 years ago

Same applies to the expensive ones. It all comes from the same factories.

mschuster912• 4 years ago

Jesus, offering "measure mains AC" and absolutely no touch protection, that is nuts.

I'd expect this thing to be seized by customs if you attempt to import it into the European Union.

morsch• 4 years ago

No touch protection as in it's open on four sides, right? With metal through-screws, to boot. As opposed to an enclosed, isolated case. I guess it'd be safe for low voltage measurements?

Goz3rr3• 4 years ago

I feel like you're severely overestimating how much inspection is actually done by customs for consumer imports. I've imported dozens if not hundreds of similar products/devices that could be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing and are certainly missing any required certification and never had so much as a peep other than the occasional request for an invoice so they could charge import fees.

Also in this case if you scroll down to the spec sheet the mains voltage measurements are done with a x10 probe, meaning you'd only get ~23 volts out. Obviously that won't prevent user error from leaving the probe at x1, but at that point the device would most likely destroy itself before you can even touch it anyways.

MafellUser• 4 years ago

The market is littered with outright dangerous electronic devices but customs won't look into them, the volume is just too high. I stupidly clicked on an ad for an 'energy saving device' because I was curious about the scams an boy there are so many. The only one who can protect you is you yourself.

subreal• 4 years ago

This is single channel, Korg has 4 channels (and mentioned 2 channel generator)

invalidusernam32• 4 years ago

I wish Korg would also make these in eurorack format. At least this one looks easy enough to mod

jerrysievert2• 4 years ago

https://www.mordax.net/products/data

but the price is even higher than the korg. it is nice, and works well, and seems to have more functionality.

av500• 4 years ago

https://vpme.de/zeroscope for the budget minded :)

shameless plug, it's my product

pyinstallwoes• 4 years ago

Anyone have a some tips on wanting to build intuition on wave-forms, electronics, and having fun with an oscilloscope? This was amazing to me:

How To Draw Mushrooms On An Oscilloscope With Sound

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtR63-ecUNo

analog312• 4 years ago

This is going to date me, but... as a physics grad student, my teaching assistant service for one year was the freshman physics lab. One of the lab sessions was the "oscilloscope lab," where we rolled out carts full of (cheap) analog oscilloscopes and function generators.

The equipment was old, so the switches and controls were flaky. There really was no clear explanation of what "triggering" was doing, therefore, what the display really meant. Any explanation would work for only the 1/2 of the class for whom the scopes were actually working. The professor, a theoretical physicist, was lost. I was already an electronics buff, and knew my way around a scope, but could think my way past its foibles.

The lab was a failure. I've talked to people who still remember the "oscilloscope lab" from college.

What I thought, and still think, is we were teaching the wrong thing, which was how to make sense of a futzy machine with a bad UI. Instead, wouldn't it be nice if there were a machine that would let you... 1) Measure voltage as a function of time. 2) Display it. 3) Analyze it (store it, etc.). For most simple waveforms, you don't need triggering if you can have data storage and display instead.

Today's scopes are vastly less flaky, and have storage, but still have the same unintelligible controls, made worse by cramming more functions into fewer knobs and buttons. I'm talking about you, Rigol, though I've bought two Rigol scopes.

Something like this Korg scope might be a very nice thing if it solves, not the electronic or measurement problem, but the UI problem for what it's intended to do. Display audio waveforms and basic analysis in a straightforward way.

Myself, I've gone a different way, which is a homemade measurement board based on a microcontroller, and a Jupyter notebook.

nolroz• 4 years ago

Do you have any information on the board and setup you use? Seems interesting.

analog312• 4 years ago

Nothing published online. I'll have to think about what I can share, that's actually interesting, humanly build-able, and useful.

TheOtherHobbes• 4 years ago

Triggering was originally designed for repeating waveforms, well before storage scopes were a thing.

Triggering basically means a positive or negative transition over/under a certain level. You can set the level manually, and this gives you a basic left/right (phase) shift on the display.

It's really not a bad UI if you understand what it's trying to do.

Often you want to see what happens after some reference point or - literally - some triggering event like a pulse.

Constant sampling doesn't solve the problem. You still need to work out where the point of interest is. That's fairly simple for a static repeating waveform, but not at all a trivial problem for any waveform that changes over time - as many audio waveforms do.

ChuckMcM• 4 years ago

THIS. It might surprise readers but you can hire someone with a BSEE who is fresh out of college and really doesn't "get" any of this. And a good tool and good curriculum material can go a long way toward turning them into functional engineers. This is especially helpful for the ones who cheated their way through school and are now SHOCKED that they are expected to both know and even understand this stuff to do their job.

A good source for this has been the Digilent tools, in particular the Analog Discovery 2[1] in combination with a bread board and some basic components[2]. It is inexpensive enough that you can just buy one for a new college grad and give it to them on their first day. Then expect them to have it available when they are trying to learn the stuff you need them to know. Knowing that everyone has this basic set of gear (or kit as our UK folks like to call it) Means that even on Zoom to a remote engineer you can say "Okay hook up the following bits to your machine and share your Waveforms screen, we'll go over what is going on and why it is important ..."

The best part is that if you later need to remote into a lab bench setup you have the bases skills that are essential to letting you look at what is going on with the thing that isn't working on the bench.

[1] https://digilent.com/reference/test-and-measurement/analog-d...

[2] They used to have a great pre-packaged bundle of components for analog work (sponsored by Analog Devices :-)) which was another $100 and had pretty much all you needed for learning the kinds of things they needed to know to be effective.

c0nsumer• 4 years ago

Wow, this is excellent. I just bought a DSO Nano v3 for use with a modular synth and I'm, unfortunately, a little disappointed. It's just sort of a pain to use with audio stuff. This looks SO much nicer.

I also find it amusing how many of these "DIY" kits only have you DIY the very final, simple assembly (such as attaching a display and putting it in an enclosure), likely to sidestep FCC rules regarding testing of devices.

gaudat• 4 years ago

Sampling rate and bit depth are not mentioned in the specs. Minimum timebase is 50 usec so I guess sampling rate is around 100kHz. Looks like it's an audio ADC doing the hard work, so probably we can get 16-bit or higher from this.

This product focuses on an entirely different market than say Rigol or Keysight scopes. Think of it as an "Audio signal analyzer / generator".

That said though I will still buy it just to fuck with people using a real(tm) scope.

Korg NTS-2 DIY oscilloscope and wave generator kit

Related Stories