What doctors wish patients knew about long Covid

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/what-doctors-wish-patients-knew-about-long-covid

by amichail • 4 years ago

151 192 4 years ago

xupybd• 4 years ago

They say that Vaccines can prevent infection? I thought with Omicron that was no longer true?

ksenzee• 4 years ago

Omicron does a better job of getting around vaccine-induced immunity than the previous variants did, but vaccinated people still have a lot of protection against infection compared to unvaccinated people.

smackeyacky• 4 years ago

Pure anecdote in our household. High school aged daughter who was not eligible for 3rd dose of vaccine got covid twice in 6 weeks, unknown variant, mild symptoms.

The rest of us in the household had the 3rd dose. None of us got covid despite not really following the guidelines for isolation.

Seems like the 3rd dose vaccine was pretty effective for us.

Ankaios3• 4 years ago

At least anecdotally, the mRNA vaccines do appear to provide some protection against infection. I know three people who are mRNA-vaccinated who were recently extensively exposed to omicron. (They spent multiple hours in a single room or car with someone with symptoms who was later confirmed infected.) The exposed individuals are PCR tested at least twice a week and almost certainly never previously had covid. One of the three later tested positive, but the other two never tested positive.

Maybe by sheer luck two out of three could have remained uninfected by omicron without being vaccinated, but I'd be pretty surprised.

dataflow10• 4 years ago

I know multiple people who are PCR tested at least twice a week, who have never had covid, who had extensive exposure to omicron (multiple hours in a single room or car) who never tested positive afterward.

Do PCR tests indicate if you've ever been infected? I thought they only indicate if you're currently infected. In fact I'm curious if there is any test that can tell whether you've been infected by any variant of SARS-CoV-2 more than a few months ago; is there?

hackerfromthefu• 4 years ago

You are correct, Omicron can infect people regardless of how many shots of current vaccines we have.

Still vaccination reduces, in aggregate, the severity and duration of Omicron illnesses.

So the statement that vaccines prevent infection, can be interpreted both ways.

It's also true that vaccines can also cause illnesses, and again it's nuanced.

doktorhladnjak• 4 years ago

If you're boosted, your chances of infection are reduced by around half. Double vaccinated is only a reduction of about 20% which is not high but also not nothing.

tomrod• 4 years ago

This is going to be with us a long time!

amichail• 4 years ago

The possibility of getting brain fog from long Covid terrifies me so much that I will probably wear a mask indoors for the rest of my life.

sbinthree• 4 years ago

It is likely going to be found that long covid can be reversed with acute doses of Vitamin B3. Here's a few links, including a Nature article about it:

* https://www.nature.com/articles/s41418-020-0530-3

* https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7322475/

* Study: https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04407390

* https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S147149062...

bagels• 4 years ago

First paper was published March 2020, and only discusses B3 in the context of lung damage. Last paper doesn't seem to address cognitive function either.

cjbgkagh6• 4 years ago

Long Covid is basically CFS/ME with some extra complications. I wish CFS/ME could be treated so easily, it's not like people are not motivated to try.

bigDinosaur7• 4 years ago

Have you realised that recovery is often very likely? I had brain fog for three months, and it spontaneously vanished after that. I don't know why people act like all 'long covid' is a death sentence. It's just like the fatigue that can come after certain other infections (e.g. EPV) where the vast majority will recover fine, but it might take quite a while (6 months to a year). Very few end up with actual CFS.

shigawire• 4 years ago

Having a foggy brain for 3 months would mess up my life more than wearing a mask.

MikeTheRocker• 4 years ago

Does anyone have authoritative data indicating how common long-covid is?

Anecdotally, I was triple vaccinated (2x Moderna + booster), but I still caught covid twice (Aug 2021 and Jan 2022). Both times I had mild brain fog and cold-like symptoms (runny nose and light headache). Both times I recovered completely within 4 or 5 days. I'm a healthy 25 year-old man living in San Francisco, California.

Not trying to imply anything about long-covid, but it hasn't been my experience or that of anyone I personally know.

cjbgkagh6• 4 years ago

As a ballpark 10-20% would be expected given other harsh viruses cause CFS/ME 10-20% of the time and Covid is a particularly harsh virus. Not as harsh as MERS though.

nscalf3• 4 years ago

Agreed. I've seen some theories that long covid is related to micro blood clots, and some very preliminary studies showing universal improvements from long term anti-coagulants---though I am far from being an expert able to really vet these papers. I know many people slowly get better as well. Anecdotally, my experience was a relatively large step down in cardio, which I have seen slowly improve, however I'm young and relatively healthy.

hackernewds• 4 years ago

Are you suggesting that long COVID is related to decrease in cardio, or that your cardio decrease led to the effects of long COVID?

lazide2• 4 years ago

Long term anticoagulants will have some nasty side effects.

dataflow10• 4 years ago

And with the high transmissibility of the Omicron variant—which often results in milder disease outcomes—many patients may be concerned about developing long COVID.

I have yet to read about anyone concluding that Omicron causes long COVID in vaccinated folks. If they have (or anyone else has) evidence indicating this is likely, I would love to hear it. Even the article doesn't claim this is the case.

throwaway9843933• 4 years ago

There hasn't been enough time for anyone to be conclusive, Omicron has only been out for 4 months. Most health professionals expect more long COVID from it. The destruction of cells throughout the body is still happening and patient outcomes are still wildly different because individual health is wildly different. Reinfection also results in worse cases.

jamie1np2• 4 years ago

Dr. Daniel Griffin on This Week In Virology works with long covid patients and is starting to see the first Omicron induced LC patients coming in. The variant has only been around for a few months, so by definition we won't have as many LC patients from it yet. Research takes time, and we're just starting to see the effects of this strain. We have no reason to be confident that Omicron won't induce LC.

svnt7• 4 years ago

And we have no reason to be confident it will, either.

grover35• 4 years ago

The fact that masks aren't mandatory in public in the US is honestly unbelievable to me. Somehow the media has managed to convince the public that Covid is not as big a deal as it was in the beginning, but the research shows the exact opposite. I think we're going to have a day of reckoning when a wave of kids become old enough to work and are completely unproductive due to long haul COVID.

dataflow10• 4 years ago

but the research shows the exact opposite

Links would be appreciated. By all accounts I've heard, for vaccinated people, Omicron (the dominant variant) is like a mild cold.

simondotau5• 4 years ago

…Omicron (the dominant variant) is like a mild cold.

Omicron appears mild in the statistics because by the time it hit western countries like the US and UK, there was almost nobody left who hasn’t either been vaccinated or exposed to a prior variant, or both.

Countries with low vaccination rates and low prior exposure rates are seeing severity of outcome with Omicron that is comparable to prior variants.

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1503420660869214213?...

jimnotgym8• 4 years ago

I have had Covid twice. Omicron was more like severe flu than a cold for me and my wife. In several ways it is quite unlike either a cold or flu. The brainfog, the feeling that one is ok one part of the day followed by a wave of fatigue were both quite dissimilar to cold and flu.

anonymouswacker• 4 years ago

I didn't sign up to be a lab rat, and it was a 3 day head cold when I caught Omicron on NYE. But I also paid close attention to the independent research and followed the advice of my doctors to improve my health (as measured by Vitamin D in this case).

jimnotgym8• 4 years ago

I am concerned that you just

a) demanded hard proof b) presented an anecdote as contradictory evidence

I think you should probably hold yourself to the same standards that you hold others

simondotau5• 4 years ago

N95 masks work. Well designed, well fitted, correctly worn, hygienically cleaned cloth masks probably work okay, though good evidence of this is still limited and based largely upon assumptions. From my own observations, the overwhelming majority of people are wearing a mask of poor quality and/or in a manner which the scientific consensus couldn't possibly agree was effective. And I doubt most people are washing them with soap and water every single day.

If we're not going to mandate an effective mask, I honestly don't see what the point of mandates are. It makes as much sense to me as mandating seatbelts and accepting a knitted scarf as an acceptable form of seatbelt.

tomxor2• 4 years ago

There was a paper posted on HN ages ago now, studying the mechanism by which masks were effective against covid... they argued it was essentially due to maintaining a higher temperature and humidity in the nose and throat. It's well known that rhinovirus for instance, reproduces more efficiently in cooler environments, so this seems plausible.

It's also possible there is more than one mechanism, and that an n95 or equivalent mask with fine enough particulate filter can additionally reduce exposure significantly (initial exposure level also being accepted as having some effect for viruses in general).

So you can look down on people with those fabric masks, but possibly not be completely correct. Honestly though... the whole mask wearing thing is more about trends of what is "socially acceptable" than science. I'm not saying there is no value, but that the forces dictating when most people do or do not wear a mask have very little to do with how well informed they are or on the current accepted understanding having changed, and far more to do with what is considered socially acceptable at the present time... so it's hardly surprising no one particularly cares about the type of mask.

syshum• 4 years ago

The fact that people believe mandates are good public policy is honestly unbelievable to me. To be clear I not debating the effectiveness of mask but the effectiveness of mask mandates which have shown many many many times to be unenforceable and ineffective.

That said even if they were shown to be effective I would still oppose them on basis human rights ground. I do not believe it is the proper role of government in general, and certainly not the US Federal government to mandate what I wear when I leave my home. At most that should be a local matter, but even though I would advocate against it in my local government. However is certainly has no constitutional basis under our system of government for the federal government to impose such a mandate

dylan6042• 4 years ago

I would still oppose them on basis human rights ground

I hear this as an argument against left and right, but when I ask why it is different from the vaccine requirements for public schools I typically get a "it just is" response. Here's hoping someone might have a better response to why this vaccine is different in that aspect.

_yoqn2• 4 years ago

"The fact that masks aren't mandatory in public in the US is honestly unbelievable to me"

I'm glad you don't run things here. We have a constitutional republic that makes it impossible for the federal government to unilaterally mandate such things as masks and vaccines. Biden tried to mandate vaccines through OSHA but the Supreme Court determined that was an overreach.

What kind of masks? Cloth masks are proven to be worthless and only well fitting N95 masks may help prevent infection.

I think what's going to happen is COVID will be less and less damaging as time goes on (like all novel diseases) and we will go on to live our lives as free people.

dylan6042• 4 years ago

We have a constitutional republic that makes it impossible for the federal government to unilaterally mandate

This isn't the only way the Fed can get things done. For example, the drinking restriction for 21+ is a state level issue strongly encouraged by the Fed. Louisiana tried to hold to 18+ for the longest, but the Fed finally won by threatening to withhold federal funding for highways.

nicoburns7• 4 years ago

I mean, it’s not as big of a deal as it was in the beginning. We have vaccines now which we didn’t have back then and these have dramatically reduced the severity.

screye3• 4 years ago

masks aren't mandatory in public

Masks clearly have a measurable impact on mental health. Given what he know about aerosolization and cloth masks, masks are near useless in public spaces.

If we are talking about reducing the populations' micromorts[1] by reducing common freedom, then there are far better things to do. Enforcing helmets for drivers, breathalyzers ($70) as default in cars, banning right-turns on red are all significantly more effective at reducing total deaths than mask enforcement, with much lower costs to a civilization. Similarly, banning certain foods and mandating exercise would massively improve American health outcomes.

I find that 'masks for everyone and everything' have become more of a political rallying call driven by hysteria, than a principled outcome focused measure. It reeks of the same blind faith as those who shout 'trust science' while healthy discourse makes up a fundamental pillar of the process of science.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort#:~:text=A%20micromor....

fnordpiglet• 4 years ago

Masks clearly have a measurable impact on mental health.

Bullshit. Citation?

CharlesW• 4 years ago

Masks clearly have a measurable impact on mental health.
Given what he know about aerosolization and cloth masks, masks are near useless in public spaces.

Both of these claims are false.

Masks have had no proven impact on mental health.[2] Masks have proven to be one of the most effective tools we have for preventing the spread of COVID-19 in public places.[2]

Mask use is science-based, as countless studies have proven. Anti-mask rhetoric is politically- and emotionally-driven hysteria.

[1] "The evidence that we have does not point us to any concern that masks affect mental health negatively." — Jeremy Kendrick, MD, assistant professor of psychiatry, Huntsman Mental Health Institute https://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/postings/2021/08/_mas...

[2] "In settings of very high mask use, in-school transmission of the coronavirus is less than 1%. The best way to protect health and safety—particularly of those that are not vaccinated—is to wear a mask." — Adam Hersh, MD, a pediatric infectious disease specialist at University of Utah Health and Intermountain Primary Children’s Hospital https://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/postings/2021/08/_mas...

dijonman23• 4 years ago

I sincerely hope this is satire.

nradov4• 4 years ago

You've got to be kidding. The virus is here to stay. I am absolutely unwilling to spend the rest of my life wearing a mask, regardless of the consequences. Most Americans feel the same way. There's more to life than avoiding a minor respiratory virus.

horns4lyfe5• 4 years ago

That last assertion is beyond hysterical.

logicalmonster6• 4 years ago

I think taking most illnesses seriously is wise, particularly so today as Covid has been around a shorter period of time and the long term effects are less known.

What I’m curious about is how does the frequency of “long-Covid” compare to other post-viral syndromes? Having various forms of malaise, lethargy, and other health problems after an illness is not a new phenomenon. Does this affect 1 in 100 or 1 in 100,000 people severely? How does this compare with say past flus? It’s hard to compare long Covid to anything without a basis for comparison.

I’ve had the flu before and was a physical wreck for about 6 months after until my body finally snapped back. Because it was pre-Covid times, I just sucked it up and focused on struggling through my day and then resting. I can easily imagine people going through something similar today, and because everybody is scared because of the media, we’re looking for a problem and labeling it rather than just generally sucking it up. (This isn’t to say that we shouldn’t work to understand and treat this problem, just that it might not be anything significantly different than all prior human experience)

How much of the concern over “long-Covid” is simply a byproduct of psychology? We may be fixated on a problem and looking for it and therefore finding it more even though it’s not necessarily any more common of a problem. Maybe a direct comparison with other viruses shows different, but this is the comparison I’d like to see to better understand the risk-management here.

nicoburns7• 4 years ago

I feel like it might be more that we weren’t concerned I’m about post-viral symptoms enough in the past than that we are overly concerned with them now. ME and Chronic Fatigue and similar can be life changing (in a bad way), but are not at all well understood, often dismissed as being in peoples heads, and do not have effective treatments.

Long-covid is an increase in prevalence, and also does seem to present some unique symptoms.

Diggsey• 4 years ago

Long-covid is an increase in prevalence, and also does seem to present some unique symptoms.

Is it though? That data is exactly what the commenter above is asking for, and I've also not seen any data comparing prevalence of long covid to long-lasting side effects of other diseases.

I feel like it might be more that we weren’t concerned I’m about post-viral symptoms enough in the past than that we are overly concerned with them now. ME and Chronic Fatigue and similar can be life changing (in a bad way)

Being in a car crash can be life changing in a bad way (if not life ending) and yet most of us choose to get in cars on a regular basis. My point is that the severity alone is not useful: you can only make an informed decision knowing both severity and the probability of a particular outcome.

Nowadays we are constantly bombarded with things fighting for our attention. Everyone is "raising awareness" for something, but as humans we are very limited in the things we can be constantly vigilent about. The only rational response is to prioritise the things that most warrant consideration, and ignore everything else.

Long covid is a particularly pointless thing to be aware of, because it's not like any sane person chooses to get covid, so the risk calculation is already two steps divorced from the actions we can actually take to avoid it.

LudwigNagasena• 4 years ago

If this is true, why is the medical science such a dumpster fire why is nobody trying to fix it?

2muchcoffeeman• 4 years ago

What I’m curious about is how does the frequency of “long-Covid” compare to other post-viral syndromes? Having various forms of malaise, lethargy, and other health problems after an illness is not a new phenomenon. Does this affect 1 in 100 or 1 in 100,000 people severely? How does this compare with say past flus? It’s hard to compare long Covid to anything without a basis for comparison.

Well it's only year 3 of the pandemic and we are on our 4th variant. Is it even possible to get reliable, steady long term data?

cjbgkagh6• 4 years ago

You can ballpark it based on similar viruses, long covid is CFS/ME/Dysautonomia which is known to occur after harsh viruses at a rate of around 10-20%. It's knowable in research but doctors and public institutions are very slow to pick it up. Just look at how little was done with CFS/ME and how much medical gaslighting is still going on even though very clear diagnostic tools now exist.

MaximumYComb2• 4 years ago

I had post-viral syndrome from glandular fever when I was ~32. It sucked. Like you, I was a wreck for 6 months. It took 2-3 years before I could exercise properly but my life was decent enough at the 12 month mark. My research at the time indicated that rates of post-viral syndromes vary by disease. Glandular fever is known to cause it in 10-20% of adults who fall sick.

llamataboot• 4 years ago

I would tend to agree that this is probably in the realm of post-viral CFIDS/ME/POTS/etc - I had nearly 10 years of dealing with fatigue/tachycardia/blood pressure issues/etc/etc/etc after an intense bout of mono and then an intense bout of lyme disease.

I haven't seen any numbers, and this general area of symptoms does get pretty blurry (and has many weird rabbitholes - for me methyl-b12 injections for a year worked amazing - for someone else? maybe not)

fragmede• 4 years ago

Respectfully, no. I had Covid-19 in March 2020 and had long covid and... "just suck it up and push through" is basically the worst possible advice. Saying it causes fatigue just doesn't describe how utterly disabling it can be. I would get tired walking from my bedroom to the kitchen and I live in a small apartment. When I would push through, I'd be bedridden for days after. Seriously! We're talking too exhausted to have Netflix on in the background, not even watching it. I'm sure it's not psychosomatic because this was all new at the time, and I was far too exhausted for months after to even just surf the Internet.

The most disabling part of the illness was learning that I can't just "push through" without paying for it for days afterwards. For months after, a single beer and a big meal would lay me out. You don't usually think of digesting food as strenuous, but in my weakened state, I'd start seeing stars and almost black out.

Now, it would be easy to dismiss me, blame me for not being healthier, but when young athletes who are fit have having these symptoms, and doctors (with better access to healthcare then I) are recording their own symptoms as scientists, it's not made up.

The worst part of having long covid is people (including doctors!) who don't believe long covid is real. Thankfully for long covid, there are biomarkers that can be tested for now so unbelievers don't have to take it on faith. After the medical gaslighting I've experienced, I really feel for people that suffer from fibromyalgia or other mysterious un-seeable maladies that there are not tests for.

logicalmonster6• 4 years ago

I believe that what you describe is your genuine experience. For you, long-covid has been a very big deal.

That wasn’t really the question though. The question isn’t, is long-covid a gut punch to anybody? It sure does seem to be so. The question is how many people is it affecting very badly, and is it radically different than other post-viral syndromes like flu sufferers have?

Im trying to put the risk profile in proper context that I can understand.

If for example ordinary influenza has an effect as bad as yours in say 1 in 500,000 patients, and Covid has an effect like that in say 1 in 400,000 patients, we can start to put the risk into a proper context that people can understand. That’s the type of clear and digestible comparison that I think we’re missing.

ewuhic• 4 years ago

What markers are those? If possible, with links, please.

peakaboo• 4 years ago

Guess you were unlucky and your immune system couldn't fight it off.

I didn't even notice covid.

ornornor3• 4 years ago

What I’m curious about is how does the frequency of “long-Covid”

Doesn’t the article say 20–30% of people get some form of it, dropping by 50% for breakthrough (getting Covid despite being fully vaccinated) cases?

_yoqn2• 4 years ago

I don't see any citations in this write-up. Colds and flu also cause direct cell damage. I haven't seen any concept of "long flu" anywhere.

The vaccines are not going to prevent contraction or transmission anymore. And per this article, you can apparently be asymptomatic but still get long COVID? So why is "get you vaccine and booster" in the first sentence?

It goes on to state that "10% to 30% of people might get long COVID." Not only is there no citation for that, what does that mean exactly? Isn't it 100% of people who get COVID may get long COVID?

This piece isn't real science or medicine.

bigDinosaur7• 4 years ago

The 10-30% is pure junk reporting and usually requires including people who have a cough that persists for a month after infection or non-specific symptoms like brain fog. I've had coughs that lasted two months after an infection from other diseases - it sucked, but in the long run I was fine. Now, a cough lasting a year would indeed be something else and far more terrible, but it sure as hell isn't 10-30% of people who have symptoms that last a year after covid.

roflc0ptic• 4 years ago

Coughs notably persist beyond the illness that causes them - they can become self perpetuating by causing inflammation that in turn makes you cough. I've found taking cough drops is a great way to break this cycle.

So... yeah, persistent cough is a non-symptom, and I suspect a decent amount of long COVID research is a function of perverse incentives in medical research.

iudqnolq3• 4 years ago

I don't know about everything else you mention, but dismissing brain fog is very dangerous. It can make you completely unable to think clearly for extended periods of time, and thus completely unable to work. In general it makes no sense to me we dismiss diseases that are "non-specific" (i.e. poorly understood) while ignoring the magnitude of the harms. I'm much more worried about getting something poorly understood.

hapiri2• 4 years ago

I don't understand why we should dismiss brain fog as junk symptom, just because it relies on self-reporting. All symptoms start from self-reporting.

throwaway9843933• 4 years ago

Every question you asked was answered in the article.

Nursie• 4 years ago

So why is "get you vaccine and booster" in the first sentence?

It's literally there in the second sentence -

"The odds of illness severe enough to warrant hospitalization are dramatically lowered if you stay up to date on your COVID-19 vaccine, including a booster dose."

svnt7• 4 years ago

That was true for delta. Omicron is completely different regarding hospitalization data.

ornornor3• 4 years ago

It says in the article that breakthrough cases have 50% less chances to get long Covid…

svnt7• 4 years ago

How can they possibly have that data when we are talking about omicron? They have no idea whether it is omicron or vaccinations, and that distinction only comes into play if we even have measurable results for long covid from omicron, which has only been around for a few months.

gnicholas2• 4 years ago

It also says that breakthrough cases are "rare". When I saw that I checked the date to see if it was a pre-omicron article. It isn't. This is either unbelievable ignorance or a flat-out lie. Either way, I wouldn't trust any of the non-footnoted assertions in this article.

jimnotgym8• 4 years ago

I am still confused. I have symptoms that may well be long Covid that are life limiting. However there is no test and no treatment.

This paper suggests I should visit a physician, but apart from eliminating other causes I start to wonder what the point is?

WinterMount223• 4 years ago

Eliminating other causes is sufficient enough. A physician may have ideas for a treatment or at least establish a baseline to see if you improve.

jimnotgym8• 4 years ago

Good point. I was actually admitted to hospital with one of my symtoms without considering that it could be long Covid, so I suppose I did this in reverse.

MaximumYComb2• 4 years ago

I had glandular fever in 2018 and was struck down by a reasonably severe post-viral syndrome. The term is nearly synomonous with chronic fatigue syndrome. I had brain fog, horrible post-exertional malaise (the most defining symptom of chronic fatigue), etc.

There is no test to diagnose. There is no recovery timeline. I was simply told "you should get better within 1-5 years" by an endocrinologist. Luckily it took only 12 months to get my life onto track and somewhere around 2-3 years before I was comfortable doing strenous exercise.

iudqnolq3• 4 years ago

I feel like the comments to this article exemplify the worst of HN - the assumption things other than computer science probably have simple solutions no one has thought of yet.

For example, one commentator suggests possibly every patient, doctor, and researcher has missed that merely taking cough drops would completely clear up long covid.

Even if it's true in some rare cases, I think we would be better off presuming that any active subject of research can't be solved by an outsider thinking about it for five minutes.

soldehierro• 4 years ago

I really appreciate HN for providing a refreshingly healthy, intellectually stimulating forum for discussion. In fact, as someone who is decidedly outside the tech-space, I mainly come here for the articles and discussions that have nothing to do with technology. At the same time, I think HN prides itself on being different from the myopic hivemind typical of other social media outlets - anecdotally, this something that I haven't found to be entirely accurate. (See anything about STEM vs. non-STEM education, medicine or biotechnology for an example of what I'm talking about).

rainonmoon• 4 years ago

I think the subjects HN broadly has blindspots in is actually really wide but maybe being aware of them is specific to one's field. For a long time until recently I was similarly outside the tech space and the misconceptions about my former field that are asserted here with absolute confidence are staggering. Conversely, surely there are plenty of us here from all kinds of fields, so I even feel silly talking about HN as any kind of monolith. It's sticky!

mach1ne2• 4 years ago

I disagree with your last point. We should presume that it's very probable that an outsider thinking for five minutes won't be producing a solution, but not disregard the possibility.

Sophistifunk2• 4 years ago

In Australia I can't even get a bloody antibody test to show I've had covid, because doctors are afraid it will be used to "justify" not getting vaccinated or not getting any further boosters. How is this helping us learn about the long-term effects of the virus? I've had a "scratch" in my throat for 2 years now, and with no diagnosis there's never going to be any treatment for me should something be offered.

This entire schmozzle is a cluster of historic proportions from our "leaders" at the top all the way down to your local GP. And it's clear that society won't be able to be dealt with it in an adult, non-political, evidence-based, and non-hysterical manner for years to come.

mach1ne2• 4 years ago

What we are seeing, society-scale, is the human ability to adapt to changing conditions. When we have a 'normal' status in society and stable processes which have been fairly unchanged for decades, humans seem smart, since repetition is what we learn best. But when society is struck by something that forces everyone to adapt, the true human ability shines through, and it's nowhere near the one refined through times.

raxxorrax• 4 years ago

My government is still talking about mandating vaccinations. I am boostered already but if they really implement it I am not sure what to do, I will certainly not comply with any additional vaccines that hold for 1-2 months. I don't want the shitty Euro passport or app either. To me it is very well a mass psychosis. Sure, Covid is a serious disease, getting vaccinated might make sense, especially if you are older. But the fear around it is just pathological at this point. Covid is a PR problem instead of a health problem by now.

Get your vaccine turbo and afterburner for all I care, but this already moved beyond ridiculous. I am very sure my easily scared country will need a long time to drop mask mandates.

ryandrake• 4 years ago

In Australia I can't even get a bloody antibody test to show I've had covid, because doctors are afraid it will be used to "justify" not getting vaccinated

Honest question: What would you use it for? I'm trying to come up with a reason I would want to know whether I ever had covid (I don't think I did but who knows), but I can't think of anything I would do with that information, or any way it would change anything about my current behavior.

Sophistifunk2• 4 years ago

None of your fucking business? I'm not asking for a prescription to heroin, and I'm happy to pay the cost of the test. And if 10% of the population end up with assorted "long covid" symptoms there are likely to be interventions to address them, and I'd like to be able to access those.

throwaway9843933• 4 years ago

I still think about COVID-19 in relation to other common diseases, like STDs. We fear many STDs and readily take protections against them. But most STDs are quite benign and easily treatable compared to COVID-19.

In this article, the long-COVID symptoms include:

- loss of taste and smell, anxiety, depression, insomnia, cognitive dysfunction (brain damage), palpitation, shortness of breath (damage to lungs), loss of appetite, bowel symptoms, permanent acute kidney injury, blood clots, hair loss, rashes, sick euthyroid syndrome

dham3• 4 years ago

Had a cold a month or so back (tested twice for Covid, negative). Just some random crap my son brought home from school. Have had a persistent cough ever since. Just get through it like I have been for the last 35 years.

When I worked in grocery store had crap all the time. Then after having kids went through random sickness every 2 to 3 months. In fact I have 2 doctor visits I can point to pre covid. One in 2016 and one in 2018 when I literally went and was like I've been sick for 2 months. Doctors were like, yea you had some random virus, could take a while to shake it. Just took forever to get over it.

Why is this all the sudden a thing? I know Covid can potentially cause (maybe?) more damage than the Flu/or random colds but did people literally not get sick before Covid? Because it really seems like it.

Also are there studies on people who are hysterical about Covid getting more "Long Covid". I'm not saying there aren't physical symptoms. Definitely lost of taste or distorted taste is a big symptom, but could some symptons be mental too?

daveoc64• 4 years ago

Why is this all the sudden a thing? I know Covid can potentially cause (maybe?) more damage than the Flu/or random colds but did people literally not get sick before Covid? Because it really seems like it.

In my entire life, I cannot think of anyone I personally know (family, friends, colleagues) who has been seriously ill (either in the short term or long term) due to a cold, cough, or flu.

On the other hand, in just two years of the pandemic, I've personally known several people who have either ended up in hospital with the virus itself, or have persistent problems over a year after infection (e.g. loss of smell).

To make things more concerning, I know of people in their 20s and 30s that have been badly affected by Covid. Not just people who are 55+.

dham3• 4 years ago

Yea I'm not trying to down play it, just seems a little off. I can't think of a person in my entire life that I know that ever gotten the flu (while I've known them) besides my wife when she was like 16. I know around 8 people that got Covid though.

The loss of smell one is going to be huge but that's a side effect of any virus. Maybe what we're seeing here is an insane amount of people getting a virus, not necessarily that it has worse post viral syndrome than any other virus. Either way we're in for a shit show.

Unfortunately, we can't really dwell on Long Covid. We can only do what we can individually to reduce risk and move on. Unless of course we want to live in a bubble the rest of our lives.

Also if related to loss of smell for your friends, I'd recommend them trying scent training. I ordered a kit through here https://abscent.org/learn-us/smell-training. It does seem to help. I'm doing it as a meditation almost and thinking back to past memories with the scent. It's kind of cool.

akvadrako• 4 years ago

In an average year flu kills about 500k people, in the same sense of how we say those die from Covid. And infects about 1B, will a reasonable percentage of those resulting in serious disease.

So you're experience isn't typical; the average person knows more people who suffered of flu.

jasonlotito• 4 years ago

Why is this all the sudden a thing?

It (Long COVID) is not suddenly "a thing." It's been talked about for quite some time. I remember first hearing about it in 2020. If you think it's just now a thing, it's because you haven't been paying attention to this.

dham3• 4 years ago

Sorry to clarify, I mean why is it all the sudden a thing with Covid.

horns4lyfe5• 4 years ago

They’re talking about after-effects of viral diseases being treated as a new thing. I’ve had the flu Knock out my cardio capacity for at least a couple of months before, this isn’t a new thing.

mihaic• 4 years ago

The article mentions help being available, but what really does it recommend if you do have long-covid?

Everyone knows vaccines and masks help, but there seems to be remarkably little being studied about dietary habits/supplements/physical activities that might aid before or after covid.

Anecdotally, my brain fog was lifted pretty quickly once I started taking vitamin D and B-complex, which I just took on a hunch, but I honestly have no idea if it actually helped. Does anyone know of any larger-scale data collection efforts?

irrational2• 4 years ago

I’ve been fortunate that I haven’t had Covid, but 3 of my siblings have (I mainly attribute that to my living in a state that took the pandemic seriously while they live in Republican states that thrive on Faux News). All three of them have had long Covid ranging from rapid severe weight gain to still not being able to smell or taste anything more than a year after being infected. I am vaccinated and boosted, but I am still masking up and social distancing because even the vaccinated can develop long Covid.

dijonman23• 4 years ago

My state had almost no restrictions, the quality of life is a trade off I welcome.

I had it in Feb 2020 before it really took off, and I recovered just fine. The reality is that we don’t have the medical technology to stop it. It’s here to stay.

irrational2• 4 years ago

My quality of life has been just fine (frankly my mental health is better now than it was prior to March 2020). Yet, I haven’t had so much as a cold in all of that time, which is fantastic.

ramblerman• 4 years ago

I haven't heard weight gain was related to long covid. If anything lack of smell would push one in the other direction no?

Could this just be due to being indoors and quarantine.

horns4lyfe5• 4 years ago

And all my friends in Austin resumed their normal fun lives a while ago, and all of them I know that got covid have recovered perfectly fine. Funny how anecdotes work. Statistically, living in a blue state vs a red state didn’t protect anyone from covid.

sn92• 4 years ago

Whether or not you lived in a red state or a blue state definitely affected the death rates due to Covid post-vaccine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv0dQfRRrEQ

alfor2• 4 years ago

There is zero advice on what to do except vaccination in the article.

If you want to know what to do look at this video by a doctor treating people with covid. There is a host of things you can do to stack the chances in your favor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN30emwcNS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zzo4SJopcY

gnicholas2• 4 years ago

“The vaccines are effective. But in those rare instances where you do get an infection despite vaccination, this protects you from having post-COVID syndrome—there’s a double insurance.”

"Rare instances" of breakthrough infection? I had been taking the article seriously up to this point, but it lost all credibility when I saw this sentence.

What doctors wish patients knew about long Covid

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