Windows 8 for tablet hands on

http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/13/windows-8-for-tablets-hands-on-preview/

by mingyeow • 15 years ago

151 138 15 years ago

> the desktop that you've grown used to in Windows 7 is still present, albeit as an app

Interesting parallel with the introduction of Windows. Windows 3.1 still ran entirely on top of DOS; but DOS was demoted in Windows 95 and replaced entirely in Windows NT, from which point it has run as a VM on top of the OS.

Rusky• 15 years ago

Add to that the fact that Hyper-V is part of Windows 8 - interesting possibilities.

lloeki3• 15 years ago

Is the Windows 7 Desktop a self-contained app in Windows 8, or is Windows 8 Metro UI a front-end atop the Windows 7 Desktop?

eykanal• 15 years ago

So, it's not "Windows Tablet 8", or "Windows Mobile 8", just "Windows 8"? Does this mean this is also going to be the desktop OS?

spaetzel• 15 years ago

Yes, it's one OS for all Windows devices.

MatthewPhillips3• 15 years ago

I think that's the eventual plan, but Phones will still have their separate OS for now, right? Unless they announced something differently today...

nextparadigms4• 15 years ago

Why isn't Engadget mentioning the chip it's running. That's very strange. Because if it does run Intel's chip as rumored, then this is the version to run on the desktop, but not the one to run on ARM, so it probably has lower battery life.

derwildemomo• 15 years ago

http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/13/windows-8-tablet-photos-v... gruber linked to that one. chip is mentioned, it's a 1.6GHz Core i5-2467M.

WrkInProgress• 15 years ago

Gizmodo mentions that this device isn't intended to run Windows 8 but is actually a Windows 7 Slate device that is being used as a prototype.

sriramk• 15 years ago

As someone who worked for MSFT for so long, this bit really makes me happy - mostly since no one would have given this much odds of happening.

"With the introduction of OS X Lion, Apple gave us a glimpse at what a post-PC operating system might look like, and now Microsoft's gone and pushed that idea to the limit. If Cupertino's latest was a tease, than Windows 8 is full frontal. And we have to admit, we like what we see. "

dr_rezzy• 15 years ago

This makes me really excited about the future of the 'desktop' ( => tablet). Microsoft has really nailed it in terms of user experience and performance. This is a good example of out innovating the competition and no other company is better suited to execute on this than Microsoft.

nextparadigms4• 15 years ago

How do you know they nailed it in terms of performance? It's running on a Core i5, on which even Vista or Windows 7 runs well. We don't know how well it will run on Atom or ARM yet, which will be the "tablet optimized" chips, with higher battery life. The Core i5 will give 2 hours of battery life, especially in such a small package compared to a notebook.

sunchild5• 15 years ago

It's hard to relate to the excitement when the demo was chock-full of usability failure. How many times did the presenters struggle to register their gestures?

Someone will no doubt say "it's a developer release – we'll fix all that". My response to that is "Apple would never let that see the outside of a top-secret lab".

Also, am I the only person who thinks this is the polar opposite of "post-PC"? Desktop, start menu, right-click, etc. Maybe "touch PC" is more apt?

jeffjose• 15 years ago

The presenter struggles because on the one hand he has a camera and the other he uses to swipe/touch.

I'm not suggesting the beta/dev preview version is without bugs, I believe you're reading too much into this.

encoderer2• 15 years ago

Apple also locks down the iPad to allow me to only do with it what they bless as appropriate.

The Apple model is just different. It's not "the right way" it's just "the apple way." High emphasis on developing in secret and only showing a locked-down finished product.

The fact they are releasing an OS a year before it hits shelves allows millions of developers to get a crack at building new apps.

notJim• 15 years ago

I just watched it, and more than anything, it seemed like it was slow. It seemed like he would swipe and nothing would happen, so he would swipe again, but it was actually just that the tablet was still processing stuff, so then it would eventually process both gestures. I think it would be quite normal for a developer release to be slow.

As far as your point about whether Apple would allow people to see this, well, that's just the Microsoft vs Apple marketing philosophy. Apple typically presents things that are very highly polished and nearly complete, whereas Microsoft says "Hey, check out this thing we're working on." All else being equal (I'm not saying it is, but if it were), they both seem like viable strategies.

volandovengo• 15 years ago

Ditto. Hats off to Sinofsky for having the balls to push this through. Looks like an amazing release. I think he'll take over from Ballmer if Windows 8 is a success.

Steko• 15 years ago

"With ... OS X Lion, Apple gave us a glimpse at what a post-PC operating system might look like"

Cheat Sheet for People Who Type Stuff for Engadget And Want To Be Good at Other Things Too:

iOS = post PC

Lion = first step in bridging PC and post-PC

Windows 8 = [strikethrough] your grandpa trying to rap [/strikethrough] second step to bridging PC and post-PC

absconditus2• 15 years ago

I did not really understand what was meant by this. What is it about Windows 8 that is going to provide a better user experience? It certainly looks a bit different from other offerings, but I cannot discern what it is that people think is better.

barista10• 15 years ago

Here's what I am excited about as a developer. Access to live service such as skydrive etc. Ability to release the same app on windows phone with minimal changes. =Touch enabled apps in a marketplace where Microsoft does not take a cut as opposed to the 30% cut that Apple takes. What's not to be excited about?

nextparadigms4• 15 years ago

According to TIMN it's running an Intel Core i5. Wow. Seriously? I realize this is just a developer preview device, but if Windows 8 needs that kind of power, then what about ARM tablets that are supposed to compete with iPad? How will it run on them? And how much battery life will it have on those Intel-powered tablets? These questions are all unanswered and Engadget didn't even touch on any of them.

"All of the above sections should give you a solid look at what Windows 8 is shaping up to be, but what about the hardware? While we got a look at the OS running on a few laptops and all-in-ones during the press preview meeting, we’ve spent most of the time testing the OS on the prototype tablet. Powered by a 1.6GHz Core i5-2467M processor and a 64GB solid state drive, the system is absolutely no slouch on performance — everything from scrolling in the browser to the Start screen is extremely speedy and the system boots incredibly quickly. However, fan noise is very noticeable, as is the heat coming out of the top vent, and a fast boot doesn’t excuse the slow wake-up times compared to ARM-based cellphones and tablets."

http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/13/windows-8-tablet-photos-v...

jra101• 15 years ago

They also showed ARM devices from NVIDIA, Samsung, and Qualcomm running the same build of Windows 8 with no problems.

dangrossman2• 15 years ago

These questions aren't unanswered; Windows 8 has been demoed on many ARM devices now, and the build conference demos show specifically how tuned for power usage it is. The new kernel is very much focused on power management.

varunsrin• 15 years ago

These are developer devices - meant for compiling code. Therefore, they are high powered, chock full of every hardware feature that Win 8 will support, so that devs can play around with them, compile code and use them as their primary machine. This is a desktop replacement machine for development, not an iPad replacement.

megablast• 15 years ago

What? You are suggesting that people develop on the tablet? That is not how it works for iOs, BB, Palm or Android,

keeperofdakeys• 15 years ago

In reality, the gap between Arm and x86 isn't all that big.

You are used to seeing Arm in phones, designed for power efficiency and slim profile. There are also tablets, which have more powerful Arm systems. However, batteries make up the bulk of these devices. They trick you in this respect. You are used to Arm being 'lite' and 'low profile'.

Then we have x86 systems. You are used to seeing these in desktops, that use hundreds of watts. In laptops, these can get much better efficiency. The problem is most laptops only have small batteries. x86 compilers have also evolved over a much longer time, so they are more efficient in their job. So you are used to x86 being 'bulky' and 'powerful'.

ChuckMcM2• 15 years ago

This looks pretty nice, its good to see M$ being able to step so far out of their comfort zone vis-a-vis competition between the 'core' windows franchise and the 'other' products. My belief was that the thing that really killed the 'Tablet' version of windows was that they didn't have an 'all in' mode where there was no legacy PC stuff there.

cooldeal2• 15 years ago

'M$' ? Really? Didn't expect to see that on HN. Thought people were more mature here.

ChuckMcM2• 15 years ago

I agree, that the HN community would downvote folks who complement Microsoft seems very immature indeed.

barista10• 15 years ago

Thats why windows 8 stories are somewhere on the middle of the front apge whereas the top story is about some tweak google did to their flight search. This is HN!

danssig5• 15 years ago

Out of their comfort zone? They're just trying "full pc in tablet form" yet again.

hasanove• 15 years ago

Am I the only one who virtually never uses windows desktop? I am either in particular app, or just click "start", type a few letters and run what I need. My desktop is just a background when nothing is running. Windows 8 new desktop might make it useful again.

Random_Person• 15 years ago

I don't use a desktop on any OS for anything other than temp storage for files. I use Chrome/Geany/terminal 90% of the time and I have quick launch shortcuts for those in both Windows and Linux.

On my Android phone, however, I use the "desktop" exclusively to find what I need. Maybe transitioning desktop UI's to something similar is a great move.

RexRollman5• 15 years ago

Exactly. When using Windows I have Firefox set to download to the desktop, from which I file things into their target folders or the trash. Otherwise, my desktop is icon free.

barrkel• 15 years ago

My desktop is split between two monitors; the left monitor is for regular work and is usually covered up by full-screen (or close to it) applications. The right monitor is full of a cascade of windows, so each window is selectable from their bottom left corners.

Apart from that, the background is just used to show pictures. It's surprisingly awkward with multiple monitors: I had to write a program that composed the pictures I wanted to display, then set that new picture as a tiled background. If you don't do that correctly, and you have multiple monitors with different resolutions, you end up with either the same image on all monitors, or clipped / stretched / distorted versions on all but the "home" monitor (the one that owns (0,0)).

Geee• 15 years ago

You should also get Launchy http://www.launchy.net/

It's the best thing since sliced bread for Windows, I've been using it for a couple of years now and can't go back. Just hit alt-space, enter few letters and launch. Just like Awesomebar but for launching apps. It indexes all files if you want and it's quick as snap.

Apparently it's also available for Mac and Linux.

r00fus• 15 years ago

Ok, Metro looks nice. I just hope they do similar to Apple and provide something between "mouse" and "touch"... like all the trackpad gestures Apple uses to make their desktop OS more touch-oriented while avoiding the dreaded gorilla arm https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Touchscreen#G...

saturdaysaint5• 15 years ago

It looks very streamlined and powerful - quite arguably more functional than today's iPad - but it's problematic that I don't see anything that makes anyones' life appreciably better. A Flipboard clone, mobile Internet, Twitter, Photos - nothing revolutionary. Really, really good, but nothing to give an iPad or Xoom owner buyer's remorse unless these are ridiculously cheap (I don't see how they'll have any price advantage over Apple or Googlerolla). Tablets will own this holiday season, which MS is missing out on, and remember that Windows 8 tablets will ship in the shadow of the iPad 3. Which, in turn, means that Android and iPad will remain the lead platform for large form touchscreen apps for the medium term future.

So: nice, but this doesn't stop their disruption.

dangrossman2• 15 years ago

When the build conference keynote's over, watch the recording. I think the killer feature will be having every device you pick up be tailored to you. When you hand it to your wife, it's tailored to her... just by signing in with a Windows Live ID instead of a local user/password. Your contacts, e-mail, calendar, photos, files, apps, desktop, bookmarks, individual app settings -- it will all be there on whatever device you pick up, whether it's a tablet, a phone, a desktop PC, your work PC. Windows 8 uses Microsoft's cloud to bust through firewalls on every end to connect every device you touch.

joeguilmette5• 15 years ago

Kind of like iCloud?

271828183• 15 years ago

That's my biggest complaint about the iPad: I can't fully share my ipad with my girlfriend since it is tied to my email accounts, contacts, calendar etc. It makes sense that a phone is tied to one person, but this iOS limitation is annoying -- especially when traveling.

tychobrahe• 15 years ago

Isn't it too early for that? Given the number of developers working with Microsoft's ecosystem, I don't think it will be long until they have a market as big as Apple's or Google's when it's released.

I think that WP7 wasn't a hit because MS made terrible partnerships and became a second-class OS vendor to everyone but Nokia, but I belive that the tablets will give MS more independence, will bring other makers to the table, and it will change. They're just late to the party.

saturdaysaint5• 15 years ago

I'm going out on a limb and making an educated prediction - it might well be too early. Then again, there's so much time between now and W8's release that we almost need to assume major launches and platform breakthroughs from Apple and Google (hey, Google announced Intel compatibility during the Build keynote). So to predict how things will shake out, we have to be a harsh on Windows 8 - it won't look any better next spring next to the iPad 3 and Android 4.0.

It's really weird for anyone that's followed technology for more than a decade, but Microsoft computers will have almost no special appeal to the average consumer. I don't think that Best Buy will have a special "Windows 8 Tablet" section like they do now for desktops and laptops - they'll be mixed in a sea of Android and Blackberry tablets (much like WP7 Phones at any phone store). Why not?

Windows 8 is in real danger of being second class in the consumer space. The lead development device is a Samsung, for example, but how much more profit would Sammy get if they made the same hardware with Android? Are the hurdles really great for Acer, Asus, Samsung, Sony or Lenovo (all Android vendors!) to put Android in any hardware that's running Windows 8?

recoiledsnake5• 15 years ago

It can run Visual Studio (more useful with a USB or bluetooth keyboard), not just a Flipboard clone, mobile Internet, Twitter or Photos.

You can even hook up a second monitor to it.

saturdaysaint5• 15 years ago

A $700 development tool is not the killer app I was looking for.

Any tablet can already create documents and spreadsheets, surf the internet, check e-mail and calendars, access social networks, edit movies, Skype... Everything that %95 of the population needs. People that need higher caliber tools (developers, creative professionals) can afford another system.

So Windows needs a stronger reason to exist it's going to dissuade the average consumer from buying either the market leader (Apple) or the cheap alternative (Android). Android is the real threat. A $200 PC replacement is quite feasible within a year and really deals a blow to Microsoft's business model.

runjake2• 15 years ago

FYI: Metro and its tile interface predates Flipboard.

saturdaysaint5• 15 years ago

Referring to the RSS reader.

nextparadigms4• 15 years ago

This explains why Engadget never said anything about the hardware it was running on. They were prohibited to say anything about it. I wonder why?

"Keep this in mind as you read: both the operating system and hardware are developer preview builds. In fact, the [REDACTED] hardware (we're prohibited from even revealing its manufacturer or specs) isn't even going to run Windows 8."*

http://gizmodo.com/5839665/windows-8-slate-hands-on-its-fant...

recoiledsnake5• 15 years ago

I don't know why you're making a big deal of this in multiple posts but the specs were shown in a slide in BUILD, so it's not like a big secret or conspiracy to hide the specs.

thirdsun• 15 years ago

The touch-enabled part of this preview and the fact that Microsoft stays close to their excellent Metro UI looks very promising. I also see the point of keeping the traditional windows elements like the desktop or explorer. However I really don't get why the explorer has to stay that traditional. I'm sure there would have been a way to make it usable with mouse AND touch input - maybe by replacing all those ribbon elements by only the most commonly used actions as icon only, preferably in Metro style.

Right now this feels like an unnecessary break from the promising and fresh approach that is Metro on a desktop (or tablet).

J3L2404• 15 years ago

Will I have to do a clean install of the OS?

RexRollman5• 15 years ago

In my opinion, one should never do a in place upgrade of a OS across major versions. Back up your files first and then do a proper install.

rbanffy2• 15 years ago

Debian (and Ubuntu) users have been doing it for many, many years without severe problems.

RexRollman5• 15 years ago

I think Windows 8 will be interesting. The one thing I don't like about Windows, since Vista, is the splintering of the client version (basic, home, professional, ultimate). I think MS should just make one client version for a flat $150.00.

ben_straub• 15 years ago

Microsoft isn't Apple. Their biggest customers aren't end users; they're large corporations with thousands of users, and PC manufacturers. Tempting end users is just marketing to them.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckie...

RexRollman5• 15 years ago

You're probably right, but having so many versions of Windows is asinine, in my opinion.

Sindrome• 15 years ago

A somebody who does .Net development as a day job. This is very exciting!

csomar2• 15 years ago

I have mixed feelings for developing for Windows 8. I got my hands a little on Visual Studio, and it's hands-down the most powerful, stable and complete IDE I ever used.

If Microsoft could have something similar for coding with JavaScript,and HTML; along with tools for storage, database, revision control, testing, jquery... integrated inside that IDE. Well, I just can't miss programming with it.

stoptothink• 15 years ago

I was at a .NET user group meeting last week. Scott Hanselman showed off the current development build; guess what, it has the same support for HTML, JS, Jquery, and CSS editing that it has for MS languages.

csomar2• 15 years ago

Mind-blowing :) Anything online showing this?

kms002• 15 years ago

What's really interesting to me is that Windows 8 seems almost entirely focused on the consumer market. What about those of us using our desktop PCs every day to do real work?

I mean, do we really have to boot into that fancy-pants Metro UI every time we want to actually get something done?

I'm totally fine with swiping this way and that when using a tablet PC (I love my iPad), but when I sit down at a desktop PC, I want a mouse/keyboard driven experience - period.

Pewpewarrows• 15 years ago

Very excited to play with this hands-on tonight/tomorrow. My only concerns are as follows:

- Multiple monitors. How does this play nicely with them, and how I traditionally lay-out several open applications across them? Can one monitor be Metro UI and the other be the classical desktop? Or, can I have a full-screen app on one monitor that doesn't brick the other screen? (Looking at you, OSX Lion)

- App windows that might not necessarily fit into the tile or fullscreen approach. The prime example of this is my chat/social desktop or space. I typically have a contacts list, tabbed chat window, IRC, and twitter feed all on the same monitor arranged around one another. I know they demoed a way to do split-screen apps while still in the Metro UI, but it seemed to be too simple for real use.

- How jarring is the switch between Metro and the retro desktop? If I'm going along fine at 90% productivity living completely in the Metro UI on my monitors, and then all of a sudden need to open a small window from a legacy app, is that going to completely monopolize my workspace? If half of my apps work in Metro, and the other half don't while programming, am I going to have to keep switching between the UIs every 30 seconds as I'm working? That would be a pretty big deal-breaker.

pcj• 15 years ago

For multiple monitors - yes, you can have 1 monitor dedicated for Metro and the other for classic Desktop and I believe you can flip between them as well. And believe the keynote demo also addressed your 2nd question on that.

joenathan• 15 years ago

Yeah, if you are familiar with Display Fusion, all that functionality is now build into windows.

danssig5• 15 years ago

This is largely an entrepreneurial site, so tell me: if you tried a concept and it failed, then you repackaged and tried again with another failure (redo this step multiple times as necessary), then saw someone else alter your concept and have enormous success would you:

a) Learn from them and make a product that competes in that space or

b) Try your same multiple-times-failed strategy again?

If you're MS it seems option b is the right answer. PC in tablet form, take... what, 5?

MatthewPhillips3• 15 years ago

In what why is this the same strategy? Windows 8 has a completely new API. Win32, which has been around since the early 90s is gone. The new API doesn't even have the concept of overlapping windows. WinRT talks directly to the kernel. In that respect, Windows 8 is as much of a "new thing" as the iPad or Android or any other tablet OS.

The only thing they've chosen to do differently is in marketing. The other tablet OSes are marketed as completely new things and Microsoft is marketing it as an iteration on an old thing.

danssig5• 15 years ago

Is it going to be the same thing they sell on the desktop? That's the goal, right? So it's PC in tablet form. Just like every time they've tried it before.

Windows 8 for tablet hands on

Related Stories