How I Got My Brain Back

https://every.to/superorganizers/how-i-got-my-brain-back

by yarapavan • 5 years ago

140 130 5 years ago

GoToRO• 5 years ago

The main part is quitting her job. This at least gives you the opportunity to take control.

Many people are just kinda forced to conform to society, and while we all have to deal with it, depression can at times manifest from making personal and moral compromises to survive when you feel that you have no other choice. It is like pretending to be someone you're not and convincing yourself that you're happy, when deep down you're miserable.

swader999• 5 years ago

Applaud her efforts. Another way is to just take a bunch of mushrooms.

datameta• 5 years ago

Set, setting, cast, and dose are hugely important.

It is proven in clinical settings. On one's own, doing a smaller dose for the first time with friends in nice weather with minimal stressors can be a huge learning experience and an enjoyable journey.

encryptluks22• 5 years ago

Definitely don't recommend without knowing yourself, and even then it can be dangerous. I once watched someone try mushrooms for their first time try to harm themselves and thankfully I was there to help them through it, but they had some underlying issues that were unknown and were only exacerbated by the pyschedelics.

Terry_Roll2• 5 years ago

Hot off the press. Oct 2020. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7868946/

Its thought the Psilocybin caps the serotonin receptors constantly stimulating them in much the same way SSRI's work but this approach may still have its pitfalls.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkeqd8/what-happens-lsd-over...

If you want a good legal laugh, swap sugar for Glycine, its found in sugar cane anyway, about 22% of it is glycine, so spoon it into your hot beverages, sprinkle it on your food and sit back and enjoy like your haven't laughed since you were kid! You will also smell nicer. Word of warning, you might get into trouble laughing at things that require a sombre or serious attitude so dont blame me if you get sacked from your job! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4955867/

fbanon• 5 years ago

"The LD50 of glycine is 7930 mg/kg in rats (oral), and it usually causes death by hyperexcitability."

smcleod• 5 years ago

It's great the author learnt a lot about themselves and is feeling better. I was quite surprised to see that they wanted to try "cupping" though, which is well documented as pseudo-science snake oil and sometimes even extremely harmful.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/cupping-olympic-pseudoscien...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2019/05/13/the-r...

klipt• 5 years ago

Chatting on dating apps was surprisingly fulfilling: People were really kind and it was a fun way to talk to strangers, especially when that wasn’t possible IRL.

Pretty sure using dating apps would have the opposite effect for most depressed men: would make them more depressed.

tsimionescu• 5 years ago

For someone only interested in social chatting, if it's true that regular dating apps are unpleasant for men, there's always the option of gay dating apps. You do have to be tolerant of some amount of un-requested nudity, but otherwise it is a good option for just finding chat partners.

david_allison• 5 years ago

If you're just looking for chatting partners, language exchange apps are going to be much better due to the asymmetric desire to learn English and the fact that just by talking, you're providing value to the other person.

mdorazio• 5 years ago

I have to agree - dating apps are depressing as hell for most men to use. The author appears to be female, which explains this view.

marginalia_nu• 5 years ago

Lonely Software Engineers can chat with recruiters on LinkedIn instead. They have such sweet things to whisper in your ear.

agumonkey5• 5 years ago

The male/female asymmetry on dating is staggering.

gs17• 5 years ago

It's also poor advice because there's already too many people on dating apps looking for pen pals instead of dates. There's other apps to just chat with people without leading them on.

cupcake-unicorn6• 5 years ago

I'm a little confused about the author's form of depression. He seemed to be able to still experience positive emotions and feelings. I don't mean to dismiss or invalidate his experience but I think depressive periods brought on by a real factor in life, say a personal hardship or stressor (in his case it seemed like work) are very, very different than chronic treatment resistant depression with anhedonia.

One of the hardest symptoms of depression to treat is anhedonia, meaning blunted or no responses to positive emotions. Having severe anhedonia is both difficult to treat pharmacologically and therapeutically.

I'm in the same boat as this author with habits/productivity, but with severe anhedonia, that only gets you so far. You can't use cheat codes, you only really know what to avoid. Since you don't really respond to rewards or dopamine hits everything is kind of messed up. You can maintain a momentum and it's better than sinking into oblivion but it always just kind of feels like treading water because the alternative is worse. I have to force myself to do everything, even things I "like" doing and it's very exhausting.

So anyway glad that this author found a way out of his situation but just as an alternative viewpoint this form of depression is more common and has a better prognosis. Some people have other forms of depression for which this approach is lacking something because if you don't naturally feel positive emotions regardless of what's going on (and regardless of treatment modality, hence treatment resistant) stuff gets pretty messed up. You can change your actions and habits but not how you feel and if you're always trying to compensate by not having an innate positive feeling or drive about something you can get a momentum but then you're stuck there. It's better than the alternative and you make peace with it but it will always be kind of a broken system.

froh• 5 years ago

Richard Davidson's work helped me see depression as an inability to mentally generate, maintain or perceive positive emotion, from bad to worst. There was a period in time I could perceive them, but not maintain let alone generate them.

And what got me back on track was 7000 steps and strictly down regulating social media feeds and learning a few self regulating tricks and awareness of the brain going funky to then apply the self regulating tricks (therapy).

The 7000 steps alone got me back to a better sleep cycle, the complete pack to a good sleep cycle.

https://books.google.de/books?id=HrWquMzPvwcC&printsec=front...

cupcake-unicorn6• 5 years ago

Would you say that you had bad habits with the social media that you had to break kind of like a mild "addiction"? A lot of people with anhedonia have had wires crossed due to things like this.

In my case it wasn't PAWS or anything like that for me but I had a lot of psych meds forced on me as a teenager and young adult which could have had an effect.

In fact it's been kind of hard to get psych treatment because the assumption often is that there is very strong comorbidity between addictive behaviors and long term mental illness but for me I've never had issues with habits/behavior like that and having to reprogram my brain after.

rl32• 5 years ago

I recall Robert Sapolsky saying that anhedonia is a "retreat into the rational mind".

That doesn't sound so bad until you've experienced it. It's a deficit of life at the most fundamental perceptual level.

I prefer sorrowful depressive states, because at least you're alive even if the pain is crippling. Anhedonia? The thing crippling you is mercurial, illusory. It's an absence, not a presence.

Baeocystin• 5 years ago

I've dealt with anhedonia most of my life. I would not say that I prefer sorrowful states; pain is crippling across the board, and you cannot live in such a state chronically in the same way as you can in an anhedonic one.

But I fully agree with you about it being a deficit, an absence. Large portions of the human experience are simply cut off from you, and it isn't something I would wish on anyone.

cupcake-unicorn6• 5 years ago

I don't prefer depressive states but I feel like a lot of anhedonic states border on disassociation for me and I'm praised for it. I'm in a state right now like the article author in that I'm doing all these good habits. I find it annoying when people comment on it and it often comes off as patronizing. I'm not doing it for attention or praise (and that doesn't really affect me), again, I'm doing it because I have to keep treading water. It leads to this terrible dynamic where I don't like reaching out to someone when I'm doing poorly but I also don't like reaching out to someone when I'm doing "well" - which means that I'm doing all the actions that one is to be praised for in "treating" depression but not feeling any relief whatsoever. It's painful to have people praise me or say I'm "strong" for what is a purely a survival mechanism, it's this or ending up physically abused in the psych ward.

agumonkey5• 5 years ago

I had a somatic variant.. for some reason I couldn't operate my left fingers[0]. I'd type and all of a sudden signals would jam and nothing would move. I had moments in life where my hand got bruised, or frozen and I couldn't 'use' it but I could still feel it. Something in my brain was still there. But the last time it felt like my brain could not find the fingers, it left a void which felt like a silent death. I wonder if people suffering hemi/quadriplegia or any form of handicap have that sensation.. I hope not it's difficult to bear.

[0] (maybe grief causing blood flow problems and brain ischemia.. I don't know)

DoreenMichele4• 5 years ago

I'm curious if you have ever tried a nutritional approach to anhedonia.

cupcake-unicorn6• 5 years ago

Absolutely. When I say treatment resistant I have done everything out there and then some.

seangp• 5 years ago

The author is actually female and, surprisingly, ends the article indicating that she is not out of the situation. The depression is still lurking but she has a better understanding of what’s going on.

jmcgough• 5 years ago

seemed to be able to still experience positive emotions and feelings.

Not saying it's the case here, but there's more flavors of depression than just major depressive disorder. There's a secondary form called atypical depression that has a few different features - you can still experience positive emotions and feelings, but those feelings are pretty fleeting.

barbazoo• 5 years ago

Reading the post, I felt somewhat stupid for not having been able to use my intellectual capacity to get me out of my slump myself. But then I realized that what I was experiencing was probably a lot different than what they experienced.

quanticle• 5 years ago

I'm really glad to see that the OP found help, but my experience with depression is that when depression is at its peak, that's when all the work that one puts into organization, productivity and tracking systems goes out the window.

Logging? Journalling? I'm having trouble enough getting out of bed and putting one foot in front of the other. I don't have energy for any of that.

To be clear, I'm not actually in a depressed phase now, but when I was in the past, that was my experience. Anything but the simplest of to-do lists was too much overhead.

antonkar• 5 years ago

In addition to applying for professional help, I found useful to read the main CBT book that psychologists use (https://www.amazon.com/Cognitive-Behavior-Therapy-Third-Basi...). I found it easy to read and apply. I started walking every morning, recording my thoughts when my mood changes, found out my main aspiration and in general achieved so much clarity in my head

L0in• 5 years ago

I'm in my early 20s and i've been living with depression all my life. Only recently got unofficial diagnosis from my former therapist. When i read the title the first thought that poped in my head was "How can you get back something that you never had?". I don't know if it was my thought or my depression influenced that thought, but at the end of the day it's something i believe it's true.

yosito• 5 years ago

I sat down and made a list of Good Day Cheat Code candidates.
I committed to doing the activity for three days in a row before evaluating its candidacy.

Jesus that's a lot for someone going through depression to muster.

binbag2• 5 years ago

Exactly. It doesn't sound like depression to me, it sounds like he was in a slump, feeling very low/sad for a while because of external factors.

satysin• 5 years ago

Indeed. I have suffered depression and just the idea of writing a list was too much.

At times I did literally nothing for days at a time until I was forced to. I didn't eat anything that wasn't already in the house and that I could just open and consume.

I remember thinking to myself "maybe playing on the PS3 will cheer me up" but the PS3 wasn't setup and so for three days I didn't get it from upstairs and set it up on my TV. Instead I just lay on the sofa and watched shit on tv thinking about setting it up but never actually doing it because just getting off the sofa and walking upstairs to get the PS3 was too fucking much for me to deal with. I would have to actually move and go upstairs, I would have to find the console, then find the controller, then the HDMI cable and power cable and the USB cable to charge the controller as the battery would be flat. Then find my games. And oh god pick a game from which meant making a choice from several options. If I managed to do all of that I would still have to move the TV so I could hook it up, was there a plug socket for the PS3 free? If not I would have to find somewhere else to plug it in or find an extension cord. It was all emotionally too much.

That was depression for me. Being overwhelmed at just the idea of hooking up a PS3 to the TV. Trying to do any kind of cognitive introspection and writing a list wouldn't have even registered.

People give all kinds of advice trying to help but you can tell those that have actually been diagnosed with depression and those that self-diagnose from the advice they offer.

Go for a walk. Do some exercise. Make an action plan. Try meditation. Cook a meal you love. Do something you have always enjoyed like watch you favourite movie or play your favourite game.

Sorry I know people are trying to help but when you are in that deep depression there is no "favourite" movie or book or video game anymore. There is the depression and nothing else. It is a void. An anaesthesia of your emotions and executive function while you remain awake but reaction-less.

Edit: I also wanted to say that while I disagree with a lot of what Brie wrote in her article I don't want to come across as invalidating how she was feeling.

Obviously we all experience things differently, however as far as I can tell she was not officially diagnosed and so while it is very possible she would have been diagnosed with depression it is also very possible she was "in a funk" due to how Covid changed the world the past ~20 months.

I know many people that suffered from very 'depression-like' problems after their lifestyle was changed without their desire or permission with lockdowns, working from home, not seeing friends or family as usual, etc. While they were very down they were not depressed and everyone I know that experienced this managed to find ways, like Brie, to handle the unexpected and unwelcome changes to their lives during the pandemic.

Reading the article comes across more of Brie experiencing this "Covid funk" (for want of a better name) than full on depression. Of course I could be wrong but without a proper diagnosis at the time Brie could also be wrong and I find it a bit uncomfortable when people describe themselves as depressed then proceed to say how going on long runs and being highly organised with post-it note systems helped them break their depression and "get their mind back".

mrexroad• 5 years ago

I hear you. It’s only worse now. Even with everything is connected, if you haven’t played recently, there’s an hour of console/game updates to download before you can play. Or worse, you spend an hour f’ing with accounts trying to get logged in, accept new terms, confirm to 2FA updates, link game dev account to console platform account, etc.

The few times I actually found motivation and time to play, it just added layer of frustration on top of whatever I was feeling. Fwiw, the Nintendo Switch mitigated a some of these issues (not all) and I eventually found the Zelda game to be helpful.

kovek• 5 years ago

I believe most mental health issues are symptoms of a general health issues. Improving sleep is first (check out mouth tape). Then comes getting out of the house. Then exercise like yoga (improve your breathing). Then come other life changes. Of course, all with surrounding support.

lm9101• 5 years ago

The advent and closing of her story revolved around relationships. I'm curious as to why she didn't expand more on how this influenced her mental state

godDLL2• 5 years ago

The author's post-it method is evocative of what I do.

I have a bunch of cards. More than 20, less than 30 of them.

All of my activities have been categorized into these cards. Such that I pick a card and go.

This makes it easy to log and do stats wrt/ mood (inside view), and activity (outside view). Also it helps with applying "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are".

Cards have limits on them. Time limits and space limits.

Spacey limits are "anywhere", "town", "out" and "in".

Timey limits are availability hours "from-to" and duration limits "from-upto".

There are four cards that are "anywhere" and "anytime". They are called "Burn" for time-limited aimlessness, "Drain" for interruptions and forced unpleasantness, and "Stop, wait" for forced idle time. Forced is unexpected and not initiated by myself in this case. There's also "Crash" for unscheduled or improperly initiated sleep. These are red cards.

There are two more cards that are similar, "Calls" and "Commute" that have two time-windows in a day and are "anywhere". These too are red cards.

There are green cards like "Cook and/or Eat" or "Garden", "Improve Habitat", "Washup or Cleanup", "Shower or Groom" and others that are "inside". Also "Code/Write" and "make Music/Play" that are orange "inside" cards.

There are blue cards like "Stock up" or "Job", "Socialize" that are "outside" and have hours attached.

And cards that are limited in time(window) but not space like "Sharpen Axe", "Walk or Sit", "Take stock and Adjust". Those are orange cards.

The "Exercise" and "Job" cards unlock a "Coffee and Smokes" card and a "Snack" card for one-time use.

Even just making these cards and following, using them for 10 days or so made my mind markedly different. Removed a whole level of underlying anxiety that I did not identify as a removable category. Made me appreciate myself in a different way.

And it is a thing you do if "You treat yourself as someone you're responsible for, responsible for helping".

It came from the idea that RPGs are systems emulating reality. So it should work in reverse, treating yourself as a PC character and categorizing the larger world around you as a game-board with cards.

Make your own cards. Very much worth the experience (and points).

godDLL2• 5 years ago

I have check-lists for "Sleep/Recover", and "Shower or Groom". Check-lists got me started and gave me a taste of that subtracted anxiety.

Those are very much advised.

binbag2• 5 years ago

I don't think the author understands what depression is, or at least what it is like for the majority of sufferers. I feel like the article trivialises depression as something to be worked through and overcome. If you have chronic depression, this article is probably going to irritate you. It's kind of like when people say you have you 'fight' cancer. You can't fight cancer, and those that die of cancer didn't die because they were too weak to put up a good fight.

drdec• 5 years ago

I understand where you are coming from, but I think there's room to be a little more charitable to the author. While her experience with depression may not be applicable to everyone, that does not invalidate what she had to say. Her approach was helpful to her and it might be helpful to others.

If you are suffering from depression, chronic or otherwise, first, I am sorry to hear that. It is a difficult place to be. I wish I knew of a technique that worked for everyone but unfortunately I do not.

I recently recovered from a long bout with depression myself. I'm not entirely certain what caused the difference after so many years. One potential thing is that I went through an experience that reset my gut bacteria. It sounds a little strange that that might be the thing, but it seems to be the most logical explanation.

I don't know if it will work for others, but I'm putting it out there in case it does.

skinnymuch6• 5 years ago

It’s interesting how many people are irritated by the tone of the article and how it appears to trivialize depression. The argument isn’t the blogger should not have written any thing. Just not trivialize it and make themselves seem so great at solving stuff.

So the people responding the advice can still be helpful aren’t actually responding to the many people including me with issues with the post.

Zababa3• 5 years ago

I like that at least the title is "How I Got My Brain Back" and not "How I Overcame Depression", and that the author talks about "My depression" instead of just "depression". This gives a hint that what worked for them worked for them, and that's it.

mbrodersen6• 5 years ago

She clearly understands and is an expert on how depression felt for her and how she managed to improve her situation. And that is all she writes about in the article. So your comment is off target.

poulpy123• 5 years ago

I started 3 months ago a spravato therapy for medication resistant depression, and while I'm not back at my former self, for the moment I feel much better.

wruza2• 5 years ago

It struck me this summer (can’t get up, weak muscle, no motivation, “mind tremor”). My doctor suggested the following steps: morning exercise, make a plan for a day/week and mostly stick to it, do everything you have to do, get regular and good sleep. No-medicine mode. I didn’t feel instantly fine ofc, and getting out of it is not the point I’m writing this comment. That state was so motivating that now I somehow miss it. For a week or two I turned into a man who can do everything because of the inner force of rigid determination which you build up at the morning and then sculpt your day around it, never missing a task, never delaying a call, never questioning a decision, never fearing an interaction. It just had to be done. It was like living under 3x gravity which would crush you once you lay down without a purpose. The most surprising part was that I can do that, can just go and do whatever was planned under the depression, and not get anxious, lazy, tired or questioning why. Now it’s all gone, and I’m back to “why would I do that, it’s fine enough already” mode. Human minds are bullshit.

thething1fox• 5 years ago

“Human minds are bullshit” - true that! The mind will conjure up all the philosophy and logic in the world once it wants something. For many of us, the thing can be laziness - which can hold us back in the long term.

amanaplanacanal2• 5 years ago

I'm not convinced that laziness is really a thing. It seems to me that what we call laziness is more often depression, adhd, fear of failure, or something else.

Zababa3• 5 years ago

I'll preface this by saying that I don't want to invalidate or diminish your experience, this is genuine curiosity. If you can't get up, have weak muscles and no motivation, how do you do morning exercise and stick to a plan? I feel like pressure that something has to be done could be called a form of motivation, but again I'm not sure.

wruza2• 5 years ago

In short, it was hate.

As I said, for me depression also manifested as a set of very negative sensations (you’re almost dead, feel like sort of hangover). After doc said that I can fight it, I became very angry at it and wanted to punch it in its face even with my numb hands, and that was a big part of that morning momentum buildup. It wasn’t a positive motivation, like “If I do some aerobics I will feel better”, it was more along the lines of “I hate your rule and you will die with me”. Thinking of it more, you’re right, it is motivation, but with a non-trivial connection to the result.

He probably knew me well enough to suggest the right plan, or it was just a good guess. Because anger and revolt are my base personal traits, and depression couldn’t take it from me that easy. E.g. being sometimes anxious, I often make self-exposition just to spite these feelings, instead of fleeing from their source. (Please don’t think I’m non-civilized though, it is completely internal thing.)

As of formal diagnosis, yes that was completely it, in an acute form (i.e. not chronic).

Edit: also I listened to Jocko Willink speeches in that state and understood them sooo well. He was so obvious. Now when my usual reasoning returned, they sound a little funny. It’s like two completely parallel worlds.

Tarucho8• 5 years ago

The author was doing 45 minute HIIT routines while being depressed. Go figure.

I find this kind of articles infuriating. All this narcissistic talk about how they handled it and whatever, signaling how they are above all that (the disclaimer at the bottom does not qualify, we are not that retarded).

After 30 years of suffering treatment resistant bipolar depression I just find all this diminishing of clinical depression really disgusting and paternalizing (did some editing here, I don't have anything personal against the author)

Yes, we depressed people are so retard. We don`t understand how exercise or clean eating benefit us, we cannot organize our lives, we like to suffer...and lose jobs...yeah, of course.

podgaj7• 5 years ago

I will add another FCK YOU to these people from me, a person living with Schizoaffective Disorder for 45 years.

As I have said in other posts, this person was NOT suffering from clinical depression. They were at best suffering situational depression, otherwise called "sadness".

And these articles always come from these rich successful people because we all know once you make some money you know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING and you get to write an article about it and make even more money.

So as you said, they wrote about this stuff and then people look at us and think it is all out fault. These neoliberal leftists are turning into the worst kind of people.

And so who listens to me? I have been studying, on my own Genetics, Nutrigenomics, and Mitochondrial Biology and by changing my lifestyle it has enabled me to get off of the 4 med cocktail I was on.

And then she briefly acknowledges her "financial security" as playing a role. Well let's see her trying to do it on disability, homeless, living in a van in the winter. I would say she was able to cure her sadness SOLEY because of her finances.

All people with Mental Illness need to push back hard on these articles because they create both inner and outer stigma that ruins us.

borepop2• 5 years ago

I responded to the parent comment so I won't belabor it, but I think this take on the article is faulting the author for a claim she never made. The article never even mentions schizoaffective disorder and makes no attempt to propose a cure for mental illness. Discussions about useful approaches for dealing with relatively mild depression are not a criticism of people who suffer from more serious conditions.

kwertyoowiyop2• 5 years ago

From this and your other comments, it sounds like you are really struggling. I hope things get better for you.

rumblerock• 5 years ago

I would love to know more about the topics you mentioned, would you care to share in more detail or point towards some starter material?

mbrodersen6• 5 years ago

Way to play the victim card. What you are saying is that she hasn’t suffered as much as you so therefore she has no right to talk about her personal experience. Really? So somebody who has suffered for 46 years can tell you to FCK YOU because you haven’t suffered enough to know what you are talking about? Have you been raped and molested as a 12 year old? If not then you obviously should not talk about suffering because you are a privileged non-raped person. Really? Is that your logic?

borepop2• 5 years ago

It seems like you're suggesting that if the "lifestyle"-type techniques described in the article aren't a solution to your specific situation, then it's condescending and useless to describe those techniques. I don't agree, and I don't think the author was proposing to lay out some universal program for eliminating all forms of depression. She was merely describing what was helpful for her.

Obviously people who have more serious conditions may need different interventions, and needless to say there is a whole pharmacopeia of chemical tweaks to be explored above and beyond lifestyle modifications. Those are also valid and valuable.

Tarucho8• 5 years ago

First thing first: did the author had clinically diagnosed depression? Or was a self-assessment?

What would people think if bloggers start giving advice on how to sort out cancer because they felt some lump in their leg, self-diagnose and decided to cure it with massage? Or giving advice on how to cure cirrhosis because their liver hurt for a couple of weeks. But with depression, for most, it's fine.

skinnymuch6• 5 years ago

The blog post is not properly describing the person merely was having a rut. Temporary unhappiness. Not clinical depression. However saying all that up front would make the post far less interesting and make the person far less interesting.

Clinical depression isn’t that serious or a condition for some people. It still isn’t the non factor the blogger had.

tailspin20197• 5 years ago

I've had chronic depression my whole adult life, sometimes extremely crippling, and I do understand your view point to a degree, but at the same time I didn't really come away from this article feeling "invalidated" in any way.

The author's description of her symptoms match pretty strongly to my experience of depression (I would say they match my experience when I'm at my "neutral baseline" - definitely not in my worse moments). From what she's describing it doesn't sound like chronic depression but more circumstantial. But it's definitely depression. She doesn't need to have a badge of "I've had this for 20 years" to have a perfectly valid, and tough experience of depression.

She clearly went into it with already established patterns like exercise and a high degree of self awareness, which has served her well during this period and allowed her to move forwards through it. Some of the ideas she talked about were extremely interesting to me too. I've been trying different things for decades and yet there were still a couple of new ideas here that I haven't considered before.

For people experiencing depression over a longer timeframe, the experience may be different. But neither experience is invalid, nor invalidates the other.

Hope you continue to push through your bipolar! I've been told my depression is "mildly bipolar" whatever that means, but I definitely don't experience the extreme swings on a regular basis that are typically described in relation to bipolar.

Tarucho8• 5 years ago

Problem is the author, as most people that say they are depressed self-diagnose. And gives advice. How would people react if author self-diagnosed cancer and gave advice on how to cure it? Depression is disabling illness, why such lightly take?

Smithalicious• 5 years ago

Excuse me? You are saying someone else's depression is not "real depression". Who's diminishing whose suffering, here?

Tarucho8• 5 years ago

She self diagnoses an illnesses. I have as much as an authority as her to say that her self diagnosis is not depression.

I also self diagnose myself with brain cancer and I will start posting advice on how to cure it using my strategies. Do you see the point?

farresito• 5 years ago

I find it rather sad and ironic that you call his article 'narcissistic talk', yet you are playing the victim, because you allegedly have it worse, half dismissing his situation.

Tarucho8• 5 years ago

Bipolar going manic, people understands, bipolar going depressive "such a pussy, I solved depression with zumba"

That`s whats get me. Depression is an illness. People wouldn`t accept such take with other illnesses why?

This article, as others, perpetuates the stigma.

jallen_dot_dev• 5 years ago

I find this kind of comment frustrating. The author repeatedly, throughout the article acknowledges her privilege (e.g. financial security to quit her job) and that these techniques are specific to her. Not just a disclaimer at the bottom.

The top comment of HN discussions almost always seems to be a cynical takedown with the least-charitable interpretation of an author's words while assuming the worst intentions.

kranke155• 5 years ago

Bipolar depression is a chemical illness. You have very little in common with anyone who suffers from regular depression.

(I have bipolar)

renewiltord• 5 years ago

You could take it that way if you like but it resonated with me. During the pandemic I was useless. I contributed nothing at work. I plodded along through life. One day I woke up and lay in bed till the sun went down. I didn’t even pee. Just lay there. The image of the light above my bed still remains with me.

And yeah, at one point, at the urging of a friend I went to Barry’s Bootcamp. Then I started going every other day. And then every day for two months. It wasn’t instantaneous. I was still worthless at work. But eventually I quit that job, accepted my losses (which is hard to do if you’ve always won), and moved on.

The lesson I learned from this article is different. This person needed these organizing skills in that moment. They needed that mental model in that moment. And they had it not because they developed it in the moment but because it was familiar.

Placed in an unpleasant situation, we all tend to the familiar. And for this person, the familiar turned out to be a useful tool.

Maybe one could turn it into an implied insult against one’s own behavior. Maybe one could treat it as arrogance to imply it is a fix for one’s own problems.

But I think the truth is that this article is intended in the spirit of something I, personally, greatly treasure: the honest human sharing of experiences in a way we can glean some truth about parts of the world we cannot observe. It’s a statement akin to “Here are the patches I’ve applied!”

And perhaps when you see those diffs you think “Fuck you! How dare you think this software is so shit that it needs those diffs” or “Fuck you! You think I haven’t thought of that?!” but maybe they don’t think that. Maybe they think it’s just that the software runs better on their machine with those diffs. And maybe they’re just sharing in that respect.

kortex2• 5 years ago

Glad someone else had the guts to say it. That was kinda my first thought - "oh she's depressed, but ranks various kinds of exercise as 'low activation' energy? That's quaint. Oh she was able to bootstrap herself out of her funk after a few months, without therapy or antidepressants? Extra quaint."

I absolutely commiserate with your frustration. I've struggled with ADHD and bipolar my entire life. I've been on all manner of treatments and seeing therapists/coaches on a regular cadence, and while I'm doing way better than my darkest times, I balk when people manage to just "be motivated" and do adult things reliably.

I do value the data she has provided, but it definitely needs to be tuned to the person and their current condition.

The author's experience of sudden onset, of sometimes not being able to get out of bed some days, but also able to hit the weights as a "low activation cheatcode" sounds much more akin to cyclothymia than general depression.

gilleain• 5 years ago

I think I understand something of your point of view. It is a little hard to be sympathetic for someone who had many resources to sort out what was a relatively minor problem.

As others have pointed out, she does acknowledge this privilege and so on. Of course, yes everyone's experience is valid and what worked for them might work for others.

I guess part of the problem is that 'depression' is like a long road. Some people are only a little way along this road, some are all the way to clinical depression and beyond.

I can't quite imagine what my current mood or mental state would be like if I did not have the financial resources to at least mitigate or forget about things for a while.

To switch metaphors, some people are in a shallow well and say 'I just climbed out!' while others are in a much deeper well, with slippery walls, and weights attached to thier feet (or something).

Tarucho8• 5 years ago

Yes, well said

andrei_says_• 5 years ago

It sucks that we use the term for so many different things, including culturally.

mbrodersen6• 5 years ago

Not how I read the article at all. She is not claiming that what she did would work for anybody else or that people who doesn’t do what she did are somehow inferior. Maybe ask yourself why you read it that way? My guess is that it has more to do with how you feel about yourself than what the author is writing.

dang• 5 years ago

Please don't fulminate or call names like this on HN, no matter how wrong or bad some article is or you feel it is. It doesn't help—it only makes things worse—and it's deeply against both the site rules and the intended spirit of the site.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing the guidelines and taking them more to heart, we'd be grateful. Note this one as well: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

kwertyoowiyop2• 5 years ago

Some gatekeeping is happening in the comments. This is just one person’s experience. Their level and strength of depression. Their personality. Their situation. If anything they said is relevant or helpful, great. If not, please share your own story and help others!

skinnymuch6• 5 years ago

Yes people with serious depression etc are offended. I don’t see how that is gatekeeping. We just believe the writing should reflect how this person was not really suffering that much. There are a number of examples given throughout the comments showcasing that.

It would be nice if the blog post was more aware of their situation vs the situation for actually [clinically] depressed people. The word depressed does not have a firm meaning in society. This benefits the blogger in that their feats sound impressive and make depression not seem to be such a big deal.

I don’t see how this is gate keeping.

slothtrop• 5 years ago

I don’t see how that is gatekeeping.

Because you don't get to decide whether someone is clinically depressed.

Karunamon2• 5 years ago

this person was not really suffering that much.

With all due respect, invalidating someone else's lived experience and telling someone that did something that worked for them that they shouldn't share it because it doesn't fit your definition of "suffering that much" is, quite literally, gatekeeping.

sergiomattei• 5 years ago

how this person was not really suffering that much

What is this, the depression Olympics? Give me a break.

mbrodersen6• 5 years ago

There are people who have suffered way more than you. Does that invalidate any opinion you have on your personal struggle? Of course not. Should you stop writing about it? Of course not. So why are you down on the author? She very carefully points out that she is talking about her personal experience and in no way generalise that experience to include or somehow fix problems for everybody else. If her experience gives you some ideas for how to improve your own situation then great! If not then so what? It might help others so it is useful.

oblak• 5 years ago

If I had to summarize this article in one word, it'd be "dishonest". This is some naive teenage girl level shit and I am not buying it coming from an adult.

Not to mention having html { opacity: 0; } on content that's already there.

Thanks for sharing, I guess

ISL• 5 years ago

If you find yourself with the symptoms outlined in the article's "Going Upside Down", one need not invent a treatment plan from scratch. There are people who literally specialize in helping people with precisely these symptoms: therapists.

Just as a physical-therapist can sometimes suggest an exercise that you'd never have thought of (That tingling in my fingers is related to a muscle in my back? What?), a good therapist will be able to help you navigate this rough spot in your life.

As an action item, a therapist at lyrahealth.com has been a key part of helping me manage stress/life-changes/pandemic in recent months. Many employers offer mental-health consultation services through their health plans -- the employer only sees aggregate numbers, not your personal information.

It is daunting to realize, "holy poops, I need a helping hand here". It is perhaps doubly-daunting to find a way over the hump to make the initial call/contact to a pro, but it is possible, and you can do it. There is a pretty good chance that someone at the other end can begin helping you work through life's challenges; they've already helped others in a similar situation.

It can get better!

shane_b• 5 years ago

The comments on this are very binary. Depressed or not. And everyone has their threshold (temp sadness, debilitating, chronic)

I remember when we used to think of depression as a spectrum instead of discrediting people that struggle, even if their struggle isn’t the same as yours.

Is this another example of polarization of society maybe?

zebriez2• 5 years ago

Hello. Author of the post here.

Thanks everyone for reading and sharing thoughts. I expected responses would fall along these lines and I had my qualms about posting at all (which I mention in the piece). Ultimately, after lots and lots of feedback and contemplation, I decided that, on the balance, it would be probably be more helpful than hurtful to post. And I'm glad I did.

To address the questions about whether it is fair, or accurate (whatever that means), to characterize my state as depression, I can say that 1/I was formally diagnosed by a clinician 2/ I was severely suicidal (though it would have require a close read to have picked that up) and 3/this clinician and I were seriously exploring hospitalization. My depression was and is not chronic.

I am well-aware depression looks different for everyone and was clear about representing anyone else's experience in the post. I don't mean to be snarky, but I would hope that after all this time on the internet, encountering all kinds of people in all kinds of places, we might be able to grasp the diversity, variation, and nuance in the human experience. I think it's worth reflecting on whether or not you believe someone else's experience has to match your own in order to have validity.

Most importantly, though, my heart goes out to any and all people who are hurting, in any way shape or form.

tailspin20197• 5 years ago

Thanks very much for sharing your experience. It will be appreciated by far many more people than those who take to the comments here.

Ignore the naysayers :-)

I'm inspired by the Post-It notes idea...

zebriez2• 5 years ago

Thanks for saying that :)

mbrodersen6• 5 years ago

Thanks for posting and please just ignore the few nasty comments from people who think you haven’t suffered as badly as them and therefore don’t know what you are talking about. It reflects really badly on them and not you. Best of luck with everything and again thanks for sharing your experience.

How I Got My Brain Back

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