Hey, Bethesda Let’s settle this

http://notch.tumblr.com/post/9038258448/hey-bethesda-lets-settle-this

by Shenglong • 15 years ago

309 97 15 years ago

notch.tumblr.com

knowtheory3• 15 years ago

I love this idea, and in a society that prided itself on honor, Bethesda would take him up on it.

Unfortunately the law does not promote honorable behavior.

eggbrain• 15 years ago

Remember, in Game of Thrones, that Bronn only became Tyrion's champion for the money, not any sense of honor.

What if Bethesda finds it easier to hire 3 top Quake 3 players for 1k each to fight Notch and friends? They might find it easier than going through the lawsuit.

Shenglong2• 15 years ago

What a wonderful precedent. The future of law: gamers

knowtheory3• 15 years ago

Well, okay, that's true (but not my primary point, since i've not read/seen Game of Thrones).

My point was that Bethesda is under no obligation to do this, and it's not clear to me that this would have legal binding. So in that sense they'd be accepting based on Notch's intentions (honorable or not), and I presume that Mojang would only agree based on their honorable intentions.

There are of course many ways to weasel out of straightforward agreements. That's why presidential debates are always so terrible.

atomicdog• 15 years ago

Seein as Bronn won the duel dishonourably by running away until the opponent was tired, does this mean Bethesda will win the match by camping?

ConstantineXVI3• 15 years ago

No need, I'd wager Carmack and friends are plenty good at their own game.

rmc2• 15 years ago

Some gamers might want to support the small indie guy and might offer their labour and skills to notch for free. Some might take the money and go help out the big guy. It would be like some medieval power struggle over a throne, with knights and dukes allying themselves to one side or the other. :)

aw3c22• 15 years ago

The top Quake 3 players are probably good friends with - if not even themselves - hopelessly addicted Minecraft players. If this was id Software against Mojang, then maybe id had the leverage but Bethesda is not necessarily considered good by the Q3 community.

dkersten2• 15 years ago

Notch can easily afford to pay top Quake 3 players too though.

rquantz2• 15 years ago

I think this idea is funny, but a future where legal disputes are settled by whoever is a better gamer/swordsman/chess player is moving back toward feudalism. Ideally, the winner of the legal dispute should have something to do with the merits of the case. I realize that there are weights on the scales of justice that are heavier for the one who has more money, but if it comes down to might-makes-right, the little guy really doesn't stand a chance.

forensic• 15 years ago

Money is a weight on the side of the big guy whether the competition is Quake or Court.

Money can always buy you an advantage in a duel, just like it buys you better lawyers.

strmpnk• 15 years ago

If only all legal battles could be solved with an old-fashion duel. Even better, lets make the lawyers fight to the death. Solves both the legal side and serves as a nice control of the lawyer population...

More seriously, I really hope that the legal system can start setting a practical standard for intelectual property debates. From patents to trademarks or even how we handle trade secrets, it's like the information age has created a new cold-war era in business mentality and it serves no purpose other than to abuse power.

Splines• 15 years ago

After listening to TAL's "When Patents Attack" episode in the car this morning, I'm inclined to agree with your proposal.

gwern• 15 years ago

> If only all legal battles could be solved with an old-fashion duel. Even better, lets make the lawyers fight to the death. Solves both the legal side and serves as a nice control of the lawyer population...

Ironically, the elimination of trial by combat was seen as a great advance, casting away a practice that was "superstitious and barbarous to the last degree".

And so the circle is closed.

mentat• 15 years ago

Check out The Dosadi Experiment by Frank Herbert.

benbeltran• 15 years ago

Come on Bethesda. Take the bait. It's great PR. (I'm sure valve would do it)

dgritsko• 15 years ago

Except it's highly doubtful Valve would've sent the C & D in the first place.

A-K• 15 years ago

Considering that they're the guys making "Dota 2", I'm inclined to agree.

tjogin3• 15 years ago

Does that count as legally defending your trademark on Bethesda's part?

And if Bethesda is right in that "Scrolls" is too similar to "The Elder Scrolls", as to cause confusion in the market place, how would a game of Quake rectify that?

esrauch• 15 years ago

They can specifically give him a license to use the name "Scrolls" under certain conditions (a disclaimer that this game is unrelated). Then there is no issue of failing to protect their trademark.

Shenglong2• 15 years ago

In ancient Mesopotamia (according to my grade 10 ancient history class a long time ago), when one man accused another of a crime, the accused would be thrown into the Euphrates river. If the man died, then the gods decided he was guilty. If the man survived, then he was falsely accused, and the accused gained possession of the accuser's wife.

I believe the point of a duel in this context, though, is simply to avoid an elongated legal process, arguing something so ridiculous and trivial. Notch just wants to keep developing.

corin_2• 15 years ago

Not exactly; I mean, sure, he clearly doesn't care a massive amount, but if his only aim was to keep developing then he could always just give in and change the name without trying to get this PR out of it.

koenigdavidmj• 15 years ago

Funnily enough, this got reversed by the time of the witch hunts.

tylerneylon• 15 years ago

This is a great solution because it can settle things quickly with less stress and let everyone get back to work.

Gamers are _not_ going to confuse Notch's and Bethesda's use of the word "scrolls," so I don't see why either company should take this too seriously. (Re-naming a game is less work than a drawn-out lawsuit.)

runjake2• 15 years ago

I have no clue who Bethesda is, but if they took him up on the offer it would be great PR in the eyes of gaming(?) consumers. It would show they're cool and don't take themselves too seriously. They'd certainly win cool points from me.

Do it, Bethesda.

knowtheory3• 15 years ago

Bethesda being the company responsible for the Elder Scrolls (Morrowind, Oblivion and now Skyrim, amongst others), and for Fallout3 and Fallout: New Vegas.

ConstantineXVI3• 15 years ago

And oddly enough, by way of their recent purchase of id, Quake 3.

shasta• 15 years ago

They publish fallout, but develop the elderscrolls games themselves.

tjogin3• 15 years ago

Right. But, Bethesda already have a stellar reputation in the gaming community, their "The Elder Scrolls" series is many many orders of magnitude more well known than Mojang's upcoming game "Scrolls". The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is one of the most anticipated games this year.

Mojang and Notch have far far more to gain from this than Bethesda do.

runjake2• 15 years ago

Thanks for this explanation. I've vaguely heard of Bethesda, but for some reason, it was attached to the old GEOS GUI for DOS, in my head.

I hadn't head of Elder Scrolls before. I'm a GTA/Battlefield/Minecraft junky, but thats about it for games.

LXicon• 15 years ago

it goes without saying that a 17 year old series is more well known than a new game. on the other hand, i have never referred to "The Elder Scrolls" as just "Scrolls". i've called it "Morrowind" or "Oblivion" and i'll probably refer to the new game as just "Skyrim". if i saw a game that was just called "Scrolls" i would not confuse it with Bethesda's games.

saddino• 15 years ago

The fact that Bethesda has engaged counsel means they've already invested in defending their trademark rights. Agreeing to any "contest" in which they'd abandon their mark would serve as record (to other competitors) that their mark is diluted. No chance of that happening. Unfortunately this is a legal issue now, not a game.

orillian• 15 years ago

There is no abandoning or diluting going on. The trademark is still intact, and they take the word "Scrolls" off the table as an issue.

Now if you decided to create a game called "The Younger Scrolls" they could still go after you! The fact that "Scrolls" as a singular word is no longer contestable would hold no baring on the legal action taken against you.

revorad• 15 years ago

Now I want to see Larry and Steve battle it out over Angry Birds.

cavilling_elite• 15 years ago

awesome way to settle frivolous lawsuits

famousactress• 15 years ago

I think they should actually make their lawyers play the Quake 3 match.

coderdude• 15 years ago

I don't know anyone who plays The Elder Scrolls but I could see their fanbase calling it "Scrolls" for short. If not for trademark, they could just be trying to protect SERPs:

http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&q=scrolls&tbs=... (query: scrolls)

http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&q=scrolls+game&... (query: scrolls game)

You can clearly see that "scrolls" pulls up mostly pages about The Elder Scrolls. (You have to ignore the pages about the lawsuit.) Then again, Notch called his previous game Minecraft, which certainly makes you think of Warcraft and Starcraft. Sounds like this is just his shtick.

jholman• 15 years ago

No one in TES's fanbase calls it "scrolls", we call it TES ("The Elder Scrolls"), because that's what Bethesda calls it, over and over and over again. Or we mention the particular games by name and leave out the series title: Daggerfall, Arena, Skyrim, etc.

Natsu• 15 years ago

That is my experience as well. I've never heard anyone refer to it as just "scrolls."

I have heard all of the things you mention, though (TES, The Elder Scrolls, Daggerfall, etc.), but never ONCE have I heard it called just "scrolls." Ever.

crag• 15 years ago

I played every version of The Elder Scrolls. And I never called it "Scrolls". And never saw anyone in the forums use that term to describe any of the games.

joshaidan• 15 years ago

Can this method be adopted to solve software patent disputes?

troymc• 15 years ago

I thought Bethesda was a city in Maryland. Talk about name confusion!

bigsassy• 15 years ago

Bethesda Softworks started in Bethesda, MD. It's now located just up the road in Rockville, MD.

rquantz2• 15 years ago

<sarcasm>Yeah, it sounds like Bethesda is the one who's violating intellectual property</sarcasm>

michaeldhopkins• 15 years ago

Bethesda's parent company owns Quake 3, so it's an away game for Notch.

lmkg• 15 years ago

This is not without precedent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_airlines#.22Just_Plan...

Southwest Airlines was sued by Stevens Aviation over their use of the phrase "Just Plane Smart" in their advertisements. Herb Kelleher, CEO of Southwest, offered to settle the dispute by arm-wrestling the CEO of Stevens. He lost the match, but got rights to the phrase anyways, and both companies got a lot of good publicity out of the match.

jeremyarussell2• 15 years ago

You get a plus for that one. I always like when people provide evidence to back stuff up.

To me though, how can someone trademark or copyright a single established word in any language, it just seems ridiculous really.

PS: I hope Bethesda takes him up on the offer.

mccutchen• 15 years ago

I think Microsoft owns the trademark for the word "Windows".

http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/en/us/IntellectualPrope...

IgorPartola2• 15 years ago

Heh, trademarking a single established word is not even where it stops. T-Mobile owns the color magenta! [1]. So don't just stop at words. Let's do letters, colors, etc. And of course as soon as you trademark a color, it implies that you've trademarked all the individual colors that make it up. Thus a trademark on the color white (#FFFFFF (c) (tm) Igor Partola, all rights reserved) would give you all other colors.

[1] http://sixrevisions.com/web_design/color-the-next-limited-re...

EDIT: Fixed silly color theory mistake.

EDIT2: s/copyright/trademark/g

Cushman4• 15 years ago

How do you feel about "Apple"?

sp3322• 15 years ago

Some video of the event - it's just as funny as it sounds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwU9m4oCtRE

etruong42• 15 years ago

Something else not without precedent is companies duking it out in virtual competition.

http://afterhoursgaming.tv/about/

Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Amazon, Twitter, Zynga, Twitter, and Dropbox compete in a Starcraft II tournament. If you're curious, it has reached the semi-finals stage, and Microsoft is the only one who has not lost any matches.

fragsworth• 15 years ago

Seems like a brilliant move on Notch's part.

patio11• 15 years ago

There were a few precedents from the 1980s and 1990s where Japanese firms in a few industries settled commercial disputes in the $ZOMG region via rock-paper-scissors. This nearly caused an aneurysm or three in my Japanese economy class, but the prof explained "It's fair, cheap compared to litigation, and even if you lose your CEO is not going to want to stab an icepick into the eye of someone who he is almost certainly going to have to do business again with."

I'm mostly telling this for the "funny anecdote" angle, since without a social connection (either direct person-to-person or inferred by being a member of the same fraternity of elite megacorps), the likelihood of a Japanese firm agreeing to this method of dispute resolution with a firm of Notchs' size is zero.

GeneTraylor• 15 years ago

This is tangential, but if you overlook the issue, then you'll find that this is how you do PR. Gaming even the serious things out is the perfect stage for myth making. Asking a giant to battle you in a game over a trademark is the stuff of legends.

angrycoder• 15 years ago

It would seem Bethesda fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against a Swede when trademark is on the line"!

DNeb• 15 years ago

Love the Princess Bride reference! I even read this in that character's voice (what was his name?)

aserra69• 15 years ago

Vizzini (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/) - played by Wallace Shawn (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001728/)

rycs• 15 years ago

I like notch, even before this, but now I feel morally obligated to buy Minecraft even if won't ever play it, and Scrolls too :).

jjm• 15 years ago

Tonight on xplay Todd from Bethblog will be on. Rewteet?

https://twitter.com/#!/jasongiedymin/status/1038604301575249...

https://twitter.com/#!/JasonGiedymin/status/1038613727057018...

mrcharles• 15 years ago

I wonder if Notch thought this through... Bethesda can draw on id employees to play for them.

alfredp• 15 years ago

This reminds me of a certain high stakes rock-paper-scissors match... For future reference, use scissors against normal people: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/29/arts/design/29scis.html

dkersten2• 15 years ago

According to Fez from That '70s Show, rock always wins!

xom• 15 years ago

The economic factors are totally different here, but still it reminded me of:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2690799

quote:

"See the following paper for an economic analysis of trial by battle:

http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/Intellectual_Life/LEO....

I particularly liked this quote: "[I]t's reasonable to expect to find a large number of retained legal representatives under a legal system in which people feel that their property rights are constantly threatened by rent-seeking litigiousness or in which rampant rent-seeking opportunity gives them an incentive to behave litigiously themselves. The rarity of retained champions in medieval England therefore suggests that rent seeking under trial by battle wasn't rampant.'"

Hey, Bethesda Let’s settle this

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