Ask HN: What do you think of System76?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28419456

by istingray • 5 years ago

54 99 5 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

The more I learn about the company the more I like it. The one thing that surprises me is they seem fairly unique in the marketplace. Solid Linux-first hardware, with a encryption/anti-surveillance focus. Curious for people's thoughts here.

privacyisntdead2• 5 years ago

I have used PopOS and I like it for the features and stability (coming from macOS).

I agree about their focus - however the laptops just look and seem out of date for the price. I see myself going down the Dell Precision or even XPS line and putting Pop or elementaryOS on it.

istingray27• 5 years ago

For those comfortable with Linux I can see going that route. To me, I have no Linux background or interest really, so am excited to have found a Linux-first vendor like System76.

From veidr below: "So why do I like System76 and why did I choose their OS? One, I want to have some company trying to make an OS for people like me, and I want them doing that to make money in a non-gross way. So not like giving me a free Google OS to serve ads to my kids."

"I feel like System76 is targeting me as a customer. I am willing to pay a premium for a good machine that somebody designed. Not all of their hardware appeals to me, but they are trying to do that."

privacyisntdead2• 5 years ago

I completely agree. I have thought about purchasing one of their desktops just because I like the company and want to support them for reasons above.

biomcgary• 5 years ago

I've purchased a number of their laptops for my employees, who prefer them over Dell XPS 13s.

istingray27• 5 years ago

Any idea what specifically your employees prefer over the Dell XPS?

pkulak3• 5 years ago

I love everything about them except their sub-par laptop hardware. They are apparently working on their own design (instead of just re-branding Clevo), but they need to get that thing out already. I’m waiting as long as I can to buy a new laptop, but I can’t wait forever.

jay_kyburz2• 5 years ago

I had one of those Clevo laptops. So many problems!

istingray27• 5 years ago

What year was it? And what kind of problems did you have? Curious about whether their quality has improved recently.

istingray27• 5 years ago

I just purchased a new Lemur Pro. Is it possible Clevo hardware is now improved since you saw it? The build quality seems fine to me, comparable to other PCs. That said as a long time Mac user I didn't have high expectations.

pkulak3• 5 years ago

Interesting… no, I have not checked out their latest models.

techrat7• 5 years ago

Subpar, overpriced hardware that is whiteboxed from another manufacturer. Too few options, barely considered design, fundamentally underwhelming overall.

istingray27• 5 years ago

What are you comparing to? The number of Linux-focused vendors is pretty slim. Would love to hear about better vendors you've found!

techrat7• 5 years ago

Better Vendors: Any.

I currently have a Teclast laptop that I imported and wiped to put Linux on. Worked out of the box.

Previous system was a Chromebook Pixel LS. Ran like a champ.

It's not difficult to get a Debian derivative running on virtually any system by this point. And that's what PopOS is. A Ubuntu spin. You think they're putting work into the kernel for hardware support? Hah. Nope. They're not.

Linux Focused? Well, if you want Linux that badly, you'll find a way to make it happen. It's easier to install Ubuntu onto a system than it is to install Windows 10.

If it means I have to buy a Dell XPS13 and format Windows first, at least I know I'll be getting higher quality hardware at a lower price instead.

System76 is Clevo garbage. Garbage with Linux is still garbage.

1--6zVa-E• 5 years ago

I’ve never really looked into Linux laptops, so excuse my ignorance on the topic, but can’t you just install Linux on any Windows laptop? I don’t see the point in Linux focused laptops, so please enlighten me

drusepth• 5 years ago

Not really a fan personally, but it looks like a lot of the new-to-linux crowd that used to orbit around Ubuntu has migrated toward PopOS.

tg1802• 5 years ago

I bought an ARM server (no longer available, now they only sell Xeons unfortunately) and a friend bought one of their laptops.

I was very happy with the server, it’s been an easy and convenient way to get a decent ARM board.

The laptop is unusable due to the keyboard, the space bar broke almost immediately. The speakers are really bad.

We immediately installed Debian, so we can’t judge the hardware support in PopOS.

istingray27• 5 years ago

Wow that keyboard sounds like it sucks. Is this from a recent model or an older one?

tg1802• 5 years ago

From the old Lemur, the new model is called Lemur Pro. (the keyboard is different)

nrclark• 5 years ago

Their Thelio desktops are awesome, and I hear good things about those new keyboards - although I haven't tried one yet. They manufacture their desktops and keyboards in Denver, which I like. Awesome people too. I've never used their laptops so I can't speak to those.

dandotway2• 5 years ago

All their laptops are limited to 1920x1080 display resolution. Do you like sharp fonts when you're going to be reading and typing text all day? You can get a Dell XPS 13 with Ubuntu preinstalled and a 4K 3840x2160 display. Way higher DPI than a MacBook M1 "retina" display and noticeably sharper fonts. You can also get a Thinkpad X1 Carbon with a 4K display and Linux preinstalled.

ssutch3• 5 years ago

1080p is perfectly sharp at 13” - and if you’re using the computer all day chances are you’ll just plug in a 4K external display anyway.

dandotway2• 5 years ago

  1080p 13": 169 dpi
  4K 13": 338 dpi
  Laser printer: 600 dpi
  Photo printer: 1200 dpi

Laser printers use 600 dpi because most readers who appreciate typographic design and sharp fonts do not consider 169 dpi to be "perfectly sharp" even with all subpixel cleartype tricks enabled. Knuth's Computer Modern font that TeX/LaTeX use by default looks terrible below about 300dpi because its sharp serifs cannot be rendered correctly. I can't stand my 227 dpi MacBook Air M1 because the fonts on my Surface Pro (267 dpi) are so much sharper, especially because Big Sur eliminated subpixel cleartype tricks so fonts are now worse on Mac screens than they were when the 2012 Retina MBP came out. But a 338 dpi 4K display on a Dell XPS 13 is a noticeable improvement over the 267 dpi Surface Pro.

istingray27• 5 years ago

Coming from a retina display 1080p is a bit fuzzy. Definitely something I would need improved in future releases. But my biggest concern is whether Linux is ready for Mac users like me who expect things to "just work". If it just works, I can deal with 1080p. If it requires a mechanic, I don't care if it's an 8k display, I'm out.

commoner• 5 years ago

System76 has sold laptops with 4K displays before, though they're absent from their current lineup:

- https://tech-docs.system76.com/models/addw1/README.html

- https://tech-docs.system76.com/models/bonw14/README.html

istingray27• 5 years ago

Yea definitely an opportunity for improvement. 1920x1080 isn't a dealbreaker for me right now and I assume they'll improve it in future models.

Linux working out of the box is a must have for me, however. So far a few things here and there like configuring my mouse and "wake from sleep" while on an external monitor. Would prefer not to need to fiddle with these basics but so far I can deal with it.

robocat• 5 years ago

You can get a Dell XPS 13 with Ubuntu preinstalled and a 4K 3840x2160 display

I have the 4k XPS 15” from 3 years ago running Ubuntu, which I have been very happy with.

The biggest issue I have is poor support when using Linux for the 4k display. So many niggles and problems with the Retina display and I have tried a variety of different workarounds, and I still have quite a few unresolved issues. I personally wished I had bought the 1024p display. Currently I am fighting with trying to upscale Wine and there is no simple solution - meanwhile the fonts and everything for the application I am trying to run are so tiny as to be unusable (Aside: the Wine Display Configuration text size setting does not help).

Apart from that, the XPS has been a solid performer running Linux with no noticeable software issues. The firmware is still getting patches through Ubuntu which is impressive.

The one persistent niggle with the XPS range is that there is a “coil whine”, which sounds exactly like a tinny speaker tuned to the CPU usage. It isn’t loud but if a noticeable annoying noise drives you insane then be very careful before buying an XPS. I would hope they have fixed the problem, but it had been an ongoing problem with previous models for years, so caveat emptor.

elcano2• 5 years ago

My wife's XPS has that coil whine. She avoids using it because of it. It's pretty old, so we have to replace it. However, no more XPS in my house. I bought one for my son last year and the wifi card failed to initiate with the machine from the to time. The solution given by Dell was a BIOS reset. Luckily I bought from Costco and since Dell no offered a better solution before 90 days I returned the laptop.

Rd6n6• 5 years ago

My XPS, running at 4K in Ubuntu, lags. The machine was not strong enough to power it’s display. I run it at one step up from 1080p if I want it to run smoothly

nonameiguess• 5 years ago

I have an Oryx Pro as my employer-provided workstation. That's their top-end laptop, 8-core 10th gen i7, NVIDIA 2070 GTX discrete GPU, 2 TB NVMe. The firmware works well, I've never had any issues with any peripherals and I use a lot of them. External monitor, bluetooth headsets with mic, WiFi, smart card reader, all works fine.

It does look and feel a little cheaply made. The keyboard is crap, but I mostly use an external wireless keyboard anyway. It's bulky, the fan is loud as hell, everything is crappy plastic. Integrated monitor is only 1080p. But it performs fine.

I also have an identically spec'd, literally same processor, GPU, and storage, MSI Creator, and it is much nicer, thinner, sleek looking, much better looking and solid feeling keyboard, 4k display, extremely quiet fan.

The difference is pretty obvious. It's an even bigger step down from a Macbook. I feel like System 76 is worth supporting as the only vendor out there focusing on Linux-first laptops, and they're the only OEM offering high-performance workstation laptops with Linux pre-installed. But I hope the switch building their own brings them up in quality. They're a big step down from similar Windows and Mac laptops. Linux itself is the only appeal. It actually is a tiny bit cheaper than the MSI and way cheaper than a comparably-spec'd Macbook, though.

But I would only recommend this for work since it is supported and extremely stable and pretty reliable. If you want a high-performance workstation laptop with Linux and are willing to put some upfront effort into self-configuring, get something like the MSI Creator, wipe Windows, and put Arch on it.

pnathan• 5 years ago

It is hardware that just works with Linux. I like that. A modern Dell with Linux, fex, has had a number of driver/hw issues. The system76 didn't have those issues.

Sturdiness is a bit lacking tho. Could stand to have more weight and metal.

N.b., I don't really care about "modern design", it's a way of extracting money from buyers without added capabilities. :)

istingray27• 5 years ago

Helpful to hear that System76's Linux focus is paying ofd in teems of driver/hw issues.

Seems like System76 could navigate to take over the Thinkpad "built like a tank" market to success.

internalfx• 5 years ago

I've had an oryx pro for about 8 months now. I've spent zero time trying to get Linux working correctly. You can go from zero to programming, playing games, etc, in about 5 minutes.

techrat7• 5 years ago

Managed to do this on a Teclast, HP Envy, Dell XPS, Chromebook Pixel LS and Lenovo (Thinkpad and Ideapad)

Not exactly sure why people think it's so remarkable to have things working correctly in Linux on the same hardware other OEMs use. CPUs these days are more SOCs than they ever have been and both Intel and AMD are pretty good at making sure support is in the kernel.

Installing Linux and getting things running like Steam has less steps than Windows 10. It's not a remarkable achievement anymore. You don't even need to touch the command line. Open Software Center, search for Steam, click the Install button. Done.

someothherguyy• 5 years ago

I am typing on a system 76 laptop that I have had for a few years. The hardware is fine, the manufacturing of Clevo is subpar though. I have had to replace a keyboard, my display is falling out of the casing, and the display itself has a number of dead pixels. The power supply has died. The encasement around the power port is broken.

Replacing the keyboard was a hassle, and I ended up ordering from overseas having to wait months to receive it.

Still, there is very little about a System76 laptop that is actually from System76.

Would I recommend System76 laptop? I am not sure why, as they are essentially a store front for other brands. Would I recommend a Clevo? Absolutely not.

istingray27• 5 years ago

Got it, appreciate the perspective. Sounds like a long tale of horrible hardware, gross. Hope their newer stuff is better but unsure what would make a difference.

carom• 5 years ago

I've had a couple, the keyboard fails. Just get some reliable or repairable hardware and throw linux on it.

Zhyl• 5 years ago

I wish there was a UK equivalent. We had Station X for a while, but they seem to have disappeared now.

I think System76 have showed that they understand why Linux hasn't gone mainstream with the creation and continued 'mild innovation' of Pop_OS!. I call it mild innovation because none of what they are doing is particularly revolutionary, but it does show an insight into modern users.

UI tweaks, batteries included Nvidia drivers, excellent branding and targeting on the download page (makes it look genuinely attractive to download) and a load of other small things.

At the moment, for these reasons, Pop is being recommended by the Linux Gaming subreddit that offers an easier and better out-of-the-box experience than even previous favourites such as Ubuntu or Mint (which is also based on Ubuntu, as is Pop).

I feel like the only other distro that adds a 'cool factor' is Manjaro, and I feel that even though there are a thousand distros, there is still space in the market for more that focus on design and user experience in the way that Pop does.

alias_neo3• 5 years ago

Manjaro has a huge advantage over Pop, Ubuntu, Mint et all for Linix Gaming and that is how new the packages are.

I run Ubuntu on my work amd home machines because it's stable enough for working on, but I run Manjaro on my gaming desktop because of all of the recent work on things like Wine, Lutris, VK*, and whatnot, thanks in part to Valve/Steam make playing Windows games on Linux much more reliable.

istingray27• 5 years ago

For someone new to all this, what makes Manjaro packages newer? I likely am missing something in the hierarchy of Linux.

istingray27• 5 years ago

I like this take "they understand why Linux hasn't gone mainstream". Agree, Pop OS focuses on getting basics right.

lampington2• 5 years ago

I was checking out Linux laptops last night and came across Star Labs (https://starlabs.systems/) who look pretty interesting. They're based in the UK and seem to be focusing on thoroughly testing their machines on as many Linux variants as possible.

However, they don't seem to offer machines with serious graphics cards -- Intel only. That's fine for me, but you mention Nvidia and gaming so perhaps a deal breaker for you.

istingray27• 5 years ago

Interesting to compare that strategy to System76.

Test machines on as many Linux variants as possible vs create a Linux distro optimized for your hardware.

The first seems easy (anyone can do testing), but somewhat powerless and something customers can do themselves. The latter seems powerful (custom software, something target users don't want to do) but expensive (dev time).

bklaasen• 5 years ago

Has Entroware come up on your radar? They also sell rebranded Clevo laptops AFAIK. https://www.entroware.com/store/

kingsloi• 5 years ago

I had to livestream my child's funeral. I didn't want to use an iPad, or have an iPhone in someones hand livestreaming to facebook, as I thought I needed to do better, being a techie, so I rolled with my own.

Someone recommended Owncast (should out to Gabe), tried it on my System76 Meerkat that I use for my TV, and it worked a treat. I bought an Asus ZenScreen so I could use a portable monitor (without its own power supply), and just use a single extension cord for the Meerkat. I wanted to keep it as bs-free, and simple as I could.

I had issues getting the monitor to work, even though S76 had something in their FAQ about setting it up. I tried and failed, and with the funeral fast approaching, I emailed their support (months after I had purchased), not only was it answered pretty quickly, but I got a personal call from them with instructions on how to fix my issue, and it worked! Can't rate them high enough - and Pop!_OS is a bloody wonderful OS!

allanmacgregor• 5 years ago

Sorry for your loss

junon• 5 years ago

What a roller coaster of a comment. I'm sure you've heard it a thousand times already but I'll pile on.

I'm very sorry for your loss.

samstave2• 5 years ago

I have two AOC monitors, one is 1920x180 crisp and clear and great it was ~$180 when I bought it [0]

The other is 1366x768 or whatever, but it was only $69 when I bought it. But this one isnt too bright and has a poor viewing angle.

I use them both with my 15" HP Omen, and they work fantastic as a 3-monitor Laptop Setup... I use the high quality one for extra screen space for apps like illustrator , running a browser with say - youtube tutorials etc...

And I use the poorer quality one for text reading - or playing a youtube tutorial if I am learning something like, again, how to draw something in Illustrator.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B06X9C6XFK/ref=acr_dp...

[1] https://www.amazon.com/AOC-e1659Fwu-1366x768-Brightness-3-0-...

https://us.aoc.com/en-US/search/category:usbc

atmosx• 5 years ago

Sorry for your loss. Stay strong.

brian_herman• 5 years ago

Sorry for your loss.

strangus• 5 years ago

I have nothing but good things to say about them. I picked up a Lemur March-ish, 2020. I had previously stayed away from them because a coworker had an earlier model, not sure which one, but it was just too clunky compared to my Macbook Air. The first things I noticed was I couldn't get used to the feel, Apple really has their HW quality dialed in. However,I bought it at the time Covid was entering the picture so I decided to dial in my home office, dual screens, corsair keyboard, M$ mouse. Perfect for me. When I go mobile, it's back to the Macbook Air. Where System76 shines is their support. Hands down, it's perfect. I had a situation where the bluetooth/wifi stopped working, not sure why, we had just been evac'd so I thought maybe it just needed to be re-seated. nope. Not expecting much, I did something I don't like to do, I opened a ticket, and hands down it was probably the best support experience I've ever had. One of thier engineers called me, sat on the phone with me and walked me through patching different firmwares, upgrading kernels, we went the distance, when we couldn't get it working, they shipped me a new card. I had another situation where the battery started going bad, same positive experience, ticket, handled. Like I said the hardware is not Apple, but I need linux to dev, so I make it work. I'm gonna stick with them, I feel they're on the up.

istingray27• 5 years ago

"the best support experience I've ever had" < this, for Linux, is a great deal. System76 is a steal.

mcguire• 5 years ago

I'm currently using my System 76 Gazelle from about 2013. I've replaced the spinning disk with solid-state and recently replaced the fans. Had problems with the Nvidia drivers, so I have no acceleration. Other than that, it's just worked.

stefan_• 5 years ago

Their premise seems to be to make up subpar hardware with software and I just don't see that happening. I see their predicament, they can't exactly go and make full laptops themselves, and no one in the business can have the silicon that Apple gets by virtue of paying TSMC billions.

But as it stands, Clevo is a bad partner - they are consistently years behind what even Asus, Lenovo and even Dell provide.

istingray27• 5 years ago

That's helpful context about Clevo. What specifically do they lag on?

In terms of what value System76 provides, so far I'm impressed. They make lemons into lemonade.

dmead• 5 years ago

Most of the hardware is whiteboxed from their Chinese manufacturers. There is a hackernews thread where people complain about this and the ceo pops up to defend their practices.

Apparently the newer machines are bespoke for them but the MacBook air lookalikes were for sure just relabeled Chinese machines.

geophile2• 5 years ago

I've had a Darter for a couple of years, and I'm very happy with it. I've been using Pop OS, currently 20.10. No hardware problems at all. I like the keyboard feel, and the touchpad is fine. My only complaint about the hardware is that the speakers are pretty bad.

I like that System76 is putting work into Pop OS, and making sure that it runs well on their hardware. This has been successful, as it is the best distro I've ever used. I have never run into a problem installing or upgrading packages, wifi just works, bluetooth just works, audio just works.

System76 support is fantastic. One problem I've had is that the laptop sometimes shuts down when it shouldn't (lid closed, plenty of battery) and then fails to boot properly. (I have since learned to not shut the lid except when powered off, or with external power.) But each time I've had one of these problems, support has got me back to work quickly, including once on Thanksgiving, on Thursday late afternoon/early evening. Support has also been great on getting me out of self-created problems relating to Linux configuration.

So I like System76 a lot. Best computer vendor I've dealt with. I know that I've been lucky with their hardware, and I hope that they start building their own laptops, to improve quality and reliability. But even with their current products, I would happily bu another laptop from them when I need one.

istingray27• 5 years ago

Just curious - why 20.10 instead of 21.04? I'm new to Linux and wondering why people use previous versions.

Agreed, System76 is a terrific vendor and they're only going to get better from here.

geophile2• 5 years ago

Each release takes a while to settle down. I upgraded too soon once (19.10?), and was burned, so now I wait.

showerst• 5 years ago

I’ve had a darter pro for two years now. I bought it because I wanted a “just works” Linux laptop, and because speccing it up with additional RAM and hard drive space was very reasonably priced compared to competitors.

It’s been an excellent machine, and I’m very happy with it. The build quality and battery life are not Apple level, but it’s been fine for me.

recursivedoubts2• 5 years ago

I run a maxed out Lemur I picked up two years ago.

I run all the Jetbrains stuff on it, brave, chromium, chrome and firefox, discord and slack. I usually have it plugged in via a single USB-C cable to a large monitor and full size keyboard.

Created htmx and hyperscript on it.

It has been reliable and, for the most part, just works. Not as smooth as the Macbooks I came from, but good enough and I was sick of apples behavior.

istingray27• 5 years ago

Here here. Btw did you configure it to wake on sleep from your external keyboard? And if so, how? Also what keyboard do you use?

I've recently configured mine but it was a bunch of command line stuff I didn't understand. Would like it to do that out of the box.

recursivedoubts2• 5 years ago

No, I can't get it to wake via my keyboard, but it does wake via my MX master mouse connected via bluetooth, so I've gotten into the habit of shaking it to wake my computer up.

My keyboard is a iKBC 108 w/ cherry clears:

https://www.amazon.com/Mechanical-Keyboard-Windows-Ergonomic...

and w/ the DSA Alchemy keyset from PMK:

https://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-alchemy-keyset-sublimated/

I connect it to a monitor and then run the monitor to the computer w/ a USB-C cable, works great.

Shared404• 5 years ago

Can't speak to their hardware, but Pop!_OS is far and away the easiest Distro I've found to install and just start working with, especially with Nvidia hardware.

The only reason I would use a different distro on desktop is if I'm going to use something other than systemD (most of my machines).

veidr2• 5 years ago

It is interesting to read this thread, as a person who recently switched from macOS to Pop OS.

I can't speak to the hardware; I tried to buy a big beefy workstation from them, too, but they don't ship big stuff to Japan, so I commissioned a modern workstation build from a local PC builder instead.

Pop OS installed as easily as everybody says, supporting the NVIDIA RTX 3060 video card, Intel Core i9-11900K (of course), and a recent-model PCIe 4.0 SSD that reads 7GB/sec.

I couldn't figure out how to make it drive a 6K display over Thunderbolt, though — it might be possible, but I "solved" the problem by getting an older Dell 8K display (the real old one that needs two DisplayPort cables). That works great.

TL;DR is that I love it, Pop OS is nearly as polished as macOS or Windows is these days, and it is way faster than any Mac for daily programming, building node apps, reading this site and stack overflow. (I'm coming from an iMac Pro and and M1 Mac Mini, and it is much much much faster than both of those. I think the M1 would feel more competitive if I could use ARM-native Node 16, but most of my work involves Node 14 which runs (slowly) under Rosetta on the M1.)

That would all be true if I just installed Ubuntu, too, though, and presumably Manjaro or (with more reading and fiddling) Arch.

So why do I like System76 and why did I choose their OS? One, I want to have some company trying to make an OS for people like me, and I want them doing that to make money in a non-gross way. So not like giving me a free Google OS to serve ads to my kids.

I feel like System76 is targeting me as a customer. I am willing to pay a premium for a good machine that somebody designed. Not all of their hardware appeals to me, but they are trying to do that.

Likewise, even though the Pop OS improvements on top of Ubuntu are just a handful, I am happy not to have to pay with my time to set those up. For example, fast disk encryption is absolutely fundamental, I enable that on all my machines from day 1. Yes, I absolutely could google it and do it on other flavors of Linux, but still I appreciate that Pop OS makes it a checkbox during the install (like Mac).

Ditto for the Pop Shop (their app store). It's actually not very good — there is hardly any info about the software and updates. So I am not that happy with that aspect, but still I am happy that they are trying to do that.

So I feel like System76 is trying to serve customers like me. I don't really want to allocate my time to tweaking Linux and comparing tiling window managers.

I want somebody with good taste to give me a well-thought-out set of defaults. And preferably that should be a company with a commercial incentive that is also aligned with my personal interests.

I don't think I am like, way happier than I would have been just installing Ubuntu — it's about the same. I'd still be happy. But Ubuntu doesn't seem like they are aiming to please users like me. I am just one of many user demographics they target, and I am also not their customer. I don't pay them, and if I did it would be a donation and be weird.

So Ubuntu, while I appreciate its existence, doesn't give me that little tingle of "wow, cool, these guys are trying to make products for me."

Which is why I ordered their ludicrous made-in-Colorado keyboard. Ultra-configurable keyboard made from heavy slab of metal, with full RGB lighting and multiple USB 3.2 Gen 2 ports in both Type A and C flavors? Yes!! Sign me the fuck up! That is precisely the kind of keyboard I want.

So basically, I think System76 is appealing to users who want to use Linux, but want it to kind of 'just kinda work' like a Mac. They seem to be a scrappy little company you can root for, too, not a huge (and therefore, inevitably, increasingly evil) megacorp like Apple.

So I "like" System76 because the image they've projected via their website, reddit, etc appeals to me. I want them to keep trying to make products that I want, and I want to buy those products, and I want enough other people to also buy them that System76 succeeds and this commercial relationship can continue to our mutual benefit.

istingray27• 5 years ago

I really like your take and was pleased to find it here -- even though it's at the very bottom of the page currenty.

I want to have some company trying to make an OS for people like me, and I want them doing that to make money in a non-gross way.
I feel like System76 is targeting me as a customer. I am willing to pay a premium for a good machine that somebody designed. Not all of their hardware appeals to me, but they are trying to do that.

This part really spoke to me. Go System76!

elcano2• 5 years ago

Did you receive the keyboard? It is built like a tank.

I received mine last month and had used their GUI customization app to switch the location of a few keys, but this weekend I cloned their QMK repo, did a branch and created my own layout. I also started to program my macros.

I do my own macros for switching Unicode mode (Windows/Linux - I don't use, OSX, but it is possible too), and entering international characters without switching the keyboard layout in the OS or using Mapping or Alternate/Compose key. Actually, my requirement is that my keyboard must work exactly the same in every computer, terminal or VM that I connect to without having to pre-customize the host machine. Typing is responsibility of the keyboard - not the OS. It must be plug and play.

I write mostly in English, but also in Spanish. There are characters missing in the regular keyboard that I enter using macros.

I did this before with my first QMK enabled keyboard (the Brand New Model F Keyboard, a replica of the IBM Modem F Keyboard). I was using this keyboard for work, but once I got spoiled by the QMK macros I wanted another programmable keyboard for my personal desktop. The Model F keyboard is too big to be carrying around with me. This is why ordered the Launch keyboard.

The possibilities are almost limitless once you go down the programming route. However, I noticed that the niceties of this keyboard like the many LED animations are taking almost all the available memory. My next task will be finding out how to free some of this memory (I don't care for LED animations) and address LEDs directly to use them to get CAPS, NUM and SCROLL lock feedback, as it should be.

markus_zhang• 5 years ago

Just checked their website. Do they have a lower end laptop?

mattl• 5 years ago

I have one of their most recent desktops. It’s great. Their laptops are (at least until recently maybe) Clevo machines and not worth it.

shrike• 5 years ago

I’ve bought two systems from them, happy with the hardware and support.

igor47• 5 years ago

man, i really want to like them. i was having problems with my thinkpad, and wanted to get a linux-first vs. linux-afterthought laptop. in the end, i'm still using my thinkpad, and am planning on selling the lemur pro on CL. the system76 is just kind of underwhelming. feels slower, the fan is loud, it burns through battery faster.

istingray27• 5 years ago

Helpful to hear your experience comparison to the Thinkpad. In terms of speed, I'm guessing you specced it out similarly to the Thinkpad but don't see the performance expected. Excited to see what System76 has in the works in terms of building their own laptops.

rpdillon• 5 years ago

I have two System76 laptops I bought over the past 4 years and I love them both. We use them daily for a whole variety of tasks and they've been stable and and have only required minimal attention (OS upgrades, mostly). Can't recommend System76 enough. I use Pop!_OS on all my non-System76 machines as well (an old Alienware desktop, a Lenovo laptop, and the Framework laptop I'm typing this from) and it's been fantastic across the board. Better defaults around privacy and the tendency to simplify power-user features like window-tiling and drop it right into the default interface. It's a great OS.

No affiliation, just a customer.

vondur• 5 years ago

Desktops are nice. Laptops are meh.

sam_lowry_• 5 years ago

Never heard of Starabs until yesterday, but their two Linux laptops look very interesting https://starlabs.systems/

approxim8ion• 5 years ago

For their hardware, I have no opinion. They don't serve the market segment I'm interested in ($300-500) and it is probably not financially viable for them to either. I don't hold that against them.

As far as software goes, PopOS provided the first GNOME experience that I did not hate. The installer is significantly faster than MOST other distros' installers, and the defaults, especially with the new cosmic release, are sane enough that I can change only a couple of things to get to work. On my laptop it is stable and fast. I recommend it.

codegeek• 5 years ago

It has been a few years so take this with a grain of salt but I had a shitty experience with them. I bought a system76 (around late 2013) and the keyboard was not working well (a known defect with them apparently). They emailed saying they will send a replacement keyboard and we are supposed to reinstall it ourselves (I suck at hardware). They wouldn't refund or send another laptop and I had no choice but to try and replace the keyboard myself. Left a bitter taste with how they handle their customers and I never went back to them. They have a good idea but I am not sold on the quality of their hardware.

Here is the original comment I posted few years ago:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13778843

istingray27• 5 years ago

Sounds like a shitty experience for sure. I hope they've improved. The software support I've received has been enthusiastic and attentive. However, that of course is just time for techs, whereas a hardware problem might be treated differently. Curious if anyone has interactions with them circa 2021. The System76 subreddit may also be useful: https://reddit.com/r/System76

samstave2• 5 years ago

I have had ~4 of their laptops over the years - the support was "good" -- but when three of the exact same models had issues, they wanted to charge me a shit-ton to fix what should have been replaced:

Three of the machines had screws inside the case that came loose and rattled around in the case - they wanted a bunch of money for replacement screws.

The power supplies had shitty cables that failed all too frequently and replacement power supplies for the machines were $90

Two of the models (built by CLEO) were "identical" but when one of the LCD screens failed in one, I attempted to change the LCD from the other machine that was kind of a spare, but they used a different LCD connector on each machine, even though they were "identical"

Then the main machine stopped booting, and no matter what I did, I couldnt get it to take an OS again.

the HP Omen is the best machine I have had (my macbook pro 15" was a part of the recall some time ago and it caught literally on fire in my bed while I was asleep and apple refused to replace it after "investigating it" for more than 2 months - even though it was a part of the recall, and had caught fire)

Anyway, my point is I likely will never buy a S76 again, nor an Apple machine...

However, I am sure the S76 boxes are much better build quality now (assuming they aren't still OemING from CLEO in TW.

The casing on the S76 machines I have are all super chintsy feeling...

DataJunkie• 5 years ago

I like the Linux nativeness.

We used System76 at a startup I worked at several years ago. Out of the three systems we purchased, 2 had major problems. One had a problem with the graphics chip so we couldn't use an external monitor, the other had a problem with the SSD or the SSD interface circuitry. The problems took forever to fix.

That was the last time we purchased from them.

speedgoose• 5 years ago

I can buy the same Clevo laptops from other retailers for much cheaper.

Someone from System76 told me in the past that they don't necessarily have exactly the same firmwares compared to another Clevo, as System76 develops its firmware. I guess it has a lot of value but it's difficult for me to buy a cheap hardware for that amount of money.

danbolt• 5 years ago

I use a Thelio desktop with Pop!_OS and like it a lot. I'm not super particular about hardware though.

Ask HN: What do you think of System76?

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