Can Indian Society produce Gates/Larry/Zuckerberg?

http://www.pluggd.in/2008/07/microsoft-facebook-google-from-india-can-indian-society-produce-gates-larry-zuckerburg

by bootload • 18 years ago

18 37 18 years ago

aston• 18 years ago

Funny, I assumed Larry = Ellison, not Page. Either way, can't believe Zuckerberg is being compared to those guys... Let's at least wait until Facebook IPO's or makes a billion dollars.

unalone2• 18 years ago

He made a tool that a million billion people are using, and he managed to go up against a behemoth of a competitor and still win. Facebook is a vast success, regardless of its profits, because nearly everybody in its intended demographic uses it, and most people NOT in that demographic are starting to.

jrockway• 18 years ago

It's hard to find a lot of respect for someone who steals his employer's idea and makes billions off it. I mean, I guess that's OK in this "money is everything" society ("he's rich!!11!"), but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

patrickg-zill• 18 years ago

There are already hugely influential Indian businessmen, but they are not in IT. Consider Mittal, a very large steel company. However there is a cultural component to success in software or Internet services - the best thing you could do to encourage Indian success would be to get more Indians connected to broadband.

stcredzero• 18 years ago

Duplicating other conditions would be key. Universities that encourage professors to be involved with industry, like Stanford, would help tremendously.

Also, doing an end-run around broadband might be an even better strategy. How about distributing OpenMoko sets and programming environments?

Another thing to look at -- see what the US is doing wrong and give India an advantage by not duplicating those mistakes.

andreyf3• 18 years ago

Consider Mittal, a very large steel company.

Isn't the value what a steel company produces already laying inside of the ground? Making money off of natural resources seems to require connections in government more so than it does skill or innovation.

gaius2• 18 years ago

Not really - Mittal's skill has been in buying up loss making mills and turning them around. Their core skill is in training people to operate existing mills more efficiently.

Secondly, you don't know much about steel. For a start it is not "already laying inside the ground" (go on, find me a "steel mine" somewhere). It's not one thing either; there are countless alloys, and every customer wants something slightly different. Steel is a manufacturing business like any other. You might as well say the products of a bakery are just growing in a field somewhere.

furiouslol• 18 years ago

You have no idea how tough it is to run a steel mill. I've been to many mills to observe their operations and different mills have different operation styles (I've been to one of Mittal Group's mills and their operation is the most minimalist). You definitely need skill in order to run the factory efficiently.

Especially at this current period when steel prices are plummeting faster than prices of raw materials are.

Managing a steel mill is not for the faint-hearted. It's nothing like running a tech company.

enra• 18 years ago

"Don’t put so much of your time in these hobby project ..make sure your academic don’t suffer"

Reminds me when we had a job opening and some indian guy applied for it with a fourteen page long resume.

What is it with these people and their obsession for academics and credentials?

hugh• 18 years ago

Just wondering: what kinds of things go on a fourteen-page long resume?

yummyfajitas• 18 years ago

For academic jobs, 7 page resumes for entry level positions are not uncommon. They have stuff like this:

Prizes:

1. Best (and only) dissertation, 2005

...

12. 6'th grade spelling bee champion

Employment:

Teaching Assistant, Hicksville College

Assisted in the teaching of a variety of courses, including Calculus 1, Calculus 2, Calculus 3, Differential Equations, Discrete Math and Precalculus. My teaching style reflects my commitment to diversity, technology in the classroom, helping my slowest students succeed and making sure the strongest are challenged. In addition to teaching, I held office hours to assist students in learning material they had not mastered in class. Additionally, I graded homework and exams and tracked the grades using Microsoft Excel. I was also responsible for writing Excel macros to add up the grades.

Instructor, Hicksville College

...

(Note: that part about excel macros isn't an exaggeration.)

luckystrike3• 18 years ago

The obsession with 'degrees' (and less risk taking in general) is an unfortunate byproduct of a highly controlled and regulated economy till 1991. Setting up a business, and earning a decent living for yourself (and your extended family most of the times) was extremely difficult before that time. Doing a 'white collar' job was the safest and the most feasible option and the road to that passed through a person being 'educated' (read have a degree). Hence the strong focus on getting a degree, as it was the way to earn your bread.(literally)

Thankfully, things changed from 1991 onwards, from what we call here as 'economic liberalization' (loosening of government controls and restrictions). Add to that more exposure/integration with the 'west' through media/internet and now the attitudes towards business/learning/other activities are changing.

The change will take time, and it's just my guess that the next generation that really doesn't have to worry about the basic issues of life as much would be far more risk taking, and would be doing more game changing things, relative to what's being done today.

I remember one of PG's essay where he mentioned his reasons of why some of the other places cannot replicate a 'Silicon Valley'. If i remember correctly, his take on Bangalore/India was that inherently since the country is still poor, it would be very difficult for it replicate the valley culture at this point at least. (He used an example of uneven steps on a railway station in that essay). His reasoning is not wide off the mark.

But as i said, we are very optimistic, things are gonna get way better, way sooner.

bootload• 18 years ago

"... What is it with these people and their obsession for academics and credentials? ..."

Extreme competition, limited opportunity and rigid social hierarchy.

ptm• 18 years ago

Most Indian IT jobs are for Outsourcing firms, which value academics and certifications highly.

http://infosysblogs.com/managing-offshore-it/2008/07/do_you_...

prakash• 18 years ago

for the academics part, it's no different from google.

paraschopra• 18 years ago

Don't ever stereotype people. Makes your thought process foggy which may lead to loss of obvious opportunities.

simplegeek2• 18 years ago

Nice article, but I would like to add couple of more things. a) Socio-economic structure in that part of the world is complex. You graduate straight out of school and you start thinking about your parents (in most cases Dad is near retirement) and siblings (if you've sisters you've to get them married--i.e. bear all expenses). b) Most people who make it to the top don't give back to the society in terms of donation to schools. Most people don't take initiatives that will give young kids, straight out of school, an incentive to start a company. c) Sparse number of highly talented engineers available for mentorship. Most talented people will tell you to focus on your grades, as article noted. d) Government not providing any incentives to young lads to start businesses. Cost of running a business is usually pretty high. No policy making at that level. No subsidies. e) No academic or professional activities. There are no meetups and it's very rare that you hear about a conference. Not many places to meet up like-minded people (only exception is the school itself) f) Lack of libraries. Elite usually love to read Malcolm Gladwell to remain in the Groove. Rare are the people(that I'm aware of) who like to keep abreast of latest trends. Though situation is improving but you won't find many modern classics (engineering or otherwise) in biggest library of your town). Heavy taxes on imported books. A fellow Pakistani once told me he had to pay heavy taxes(one third of the price of the books) on 10 books that he ordered for his personal use.

This is what I've heard and I've also worked in that part of the world(i.e. Pakistan) but I'm not really sure about India.

luckystrike3• 18 years ago

Read your comment after posting mine above. Your first point (Socio-economic structure) is quite correct for India as well.

But as of today, things are changing, and i guess the other points really do not apply as much as probably they might have 20 years back.

simplegeek2• 18 years ago

Well, other points still hold to some degree. Just consider the political instability most countries around India are going through right now. That is not a decent sight. India is still lucky in that lots of high profile companies have offices there but it's yet to happen in Pakistan. There are very few, if any. Microsoft has presence in Pakistan but it's mostly dealing with Government contracts and selling to Enterprise. No development offices of Yahoo, Microsoft, Google and alike. Overall, situation is more complex than one could imagine.

aneesh• 18 years ago

There are several hugely successful Indian entrepreneurs: Lakshmi Mittal, Sunil Mittal (no relation), Dhirubhai Ambani. Even in IT, there is Azim Premji & Narayana Murthy. But the entrepreneurial culture is still not there - all of these people bucked significant cultural norms.

I had dinner with Sunil Mittal once last year, and he had a constant stream of stories about how the Indian government regulations are so restrictive for aspiring entrepreneurs. Apparently you couldn't import touchtone phones at one point, so he had to have them disassembled & shipped separately to different places just so he could sell them in India. Indian trade policy has gotten better, but there's still room to improve.

aswanson• 18 years ago

It seems as though if they could just mitigate government interference they could easily surpass China economically. Why don't the elected officials realize that?

nose• 18 years ago

Yes. Sridhar Vembu and Zoho.com

zandorg• 18 years ago

Not sure if it's been brought up, but Jobs went on a trip to India around his college years and had an 'ashram'.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=408258

andreyf3• 18 years ago

Zuckerberg does not deserve to be next to Gates/Larry...

theashworld• 18 years ago

I think the single biggest factor is fear of failure. And it's mostly because of society (but other factors too). If you start something in India and fail, you are forever termed as a failure. No one moves on - anywhere you go, your failure follows you. The stigma is unbearable to live with.

Given this scenario, getting a 'safe' job and earn money working for someone else is the better option for most.

Can Indian Society produce Gates/Larry/Zuckerberg?

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