Suez Canal: How are they trying to free the Ever Given?

https://www.bbc.com/news/56523659

by ibraheemdev • 5 years ago

60 83 5 years ago

callesgg• 5 years ago

I was looking in to to lifting containers with a helicopter. A Ericsson air crane can lift a light container but not a fully loaded one. Sucking the sand away, seams like the most reasonable alternative.

guenthert2• 5 years ago

A Mi-26 should be able to do it. Unloading a container ship with a heavy-lift helicopter is probably cost-prohibitive though ;-}

Alupis4• 5 years ago

No an Mi-26 could not do it. It's maximum lift capacity is 44,000 lbs[1], and these shipping containers weight up to 67,200 lbs[2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-26

[2] http://containertech.com/about-containers/container-load-cap....

NicoJuicy11• 5 years ago

I'm actually surprised that none of the proposals contain my idea of raising the water level.

Mostly copied from 5 minutes ago:

Surround the boat, make a dam somehow and raise the water level.

Concrete is dry in 24-48 hours. Sand and wooden poles could be enough.

Some ideas on the how, could be found in this video, on how they created a bridge in the middle ages: https://youtu.be/nJgD6gyi0Wk

I'm pretty sure engineers could find better/faster solutions than what I'm proposing to raise the water level more quickly.

Edit: Omg, a record amount of downvotes for suggesting this: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wuVxvQh9Khy7xdIpgCNfVAdo4Dq... ;)

Thanks Arrath for mentioning sheet-pile coffer dams.

Edit 2: it seems that timer crib coffer dams are supported for 10-20 meters deep and diagrapragm or cellular cofferdams are used for more than 20 meters.

This is the most precise estimate that I could find on duration of construction for a 2100 foot ( 640 meter) cofferdam with a limited workforce ( 16 days! for probably a less sophisticated cofferdam) https://engineering.purdue.edu/CEM/people/Personal/Halpin/Si...

So, while my suggestion is plausible to execute. It could take too long ( planning + execution).

I guess we'll find out if the current solution will work within the current time-frame, since they have a huge amount of dredging to do.

AnimalMuppet• 5 years ago

For that to work, the dam has to go all the way around the boat, all the way to the bottom of the canal, and create a water-tight (or close enough) seal. That's non-trivial. And then, once the boat is unstuck, then your dam is blocking the canal, and has to be removed, all the way to the bottom, or it becomes a hazard.

NicoJuicy11• 5 years ago

Did you see the video?

Going to the bottom of the canal is "only 24" m. The video I gave before shows some ideas on how to do it.

Quick thought: A skeleton where the bottom layer is filled with wooden poles ( to stick them firmly in the ground). The rest is a construction that is quicker to create.

The ground of the "canal" could be 3D mapped for precise measurements ( a company i know does this).

And you'd need some additional meters on top of this to raise the water level.

maerF0x02• 5 years ago

Could they just push a really big wave at it to temporarily raise the water level?

Arrath• 5 years ago

Sheet-pile coffer dams are a solved problem, but it would take a good amount of time to drive all the piles. Not to mention that removing them again afterwards is not a speedy process, either.

Alupis4• 5 years ago

The canal is very wide, very long, and very deep. It would take an enormous amount of mass to accomplish what you propose, and an even bigger effort to clear the debris afterwards to ensure safe passage of other ships.

NicoJuicy11• 5 years ago

Depends if you can fill the outside with poles and the inside with sand.

You can suck up the sand ( if it's even required, since normal dredging could be done afterwards) before you destroy the construction again.

If it's surrounded by poles, then you just take them out again on the end.

The construction on land can be cleaned up afterwards.

chrisseaton5• 5 years ago

Do people on Hacker News genuinely think they’re able to come up with tractable ideas that wouldn’t be considered by the actual experts working on the problem?

This person wants to build a damn, someone else wants to use helicopters... waiting for other patronising armchair engineers to weigh in with other reasons why the experts have it wrong.

awillen2• 5 years ago

Glad someone else said it... nothing like a bunch of software engineers assuming they're more qualified at major maritime salvage than actual experts.

gonzo41• 5 years ago

Remember elon's cave sumbarine :D

nate_meurer6• 5 years ago

But the parent comment was pretty gently put. I didn't read it as armchair criticism, but rather more wondering aloud. The idea of cofferdamming the ship is entirely feasible, and I too am curious about how it compares to other interventions in terms of time and effort.

JKCalhoun2• 5 years ago

Armchair engineers?

Yep.

Patronizing?

I never saw it that way.

I think most people suggesting helicopters (as an example) know they are probably not feasible but are curious as to why not.

throw_nico3• 5 years ago

Wow, that's harsh.

If I'd explain it as using cofferdams ( temporarily structures) to raise the water instead of the traditional lowering. Is that better for you?

I'm 100% sure that using simple solutions to hard problems is not always thought off when something is not used in it's "traditional" sense.

Sometimes outsiders give another POV that could be actually useful. And sometimes it isn't.

No need to get rude for that... Perhaps try some constructive feedback on why it shouldn't work next time? :)

PS. Before you misinterpret my words again. I'm saying that the concept is simple ( raising the water level), not the execution of it. Since on this scale every solution is harder to execute.

Edit: It's already been confirmed by another poster that it should work in theory: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26587692 ( with pro's and cons)

bentcorner• 5 years ago

Completely uninformed guess is that what they're doing is faster and cheaper, and the "get it unstuck enough" point will be reached sooner.

Concrete is dry in 24-48 hours.

Sure, but building a dam around the entire ship? How much concrete are you going to need, and how long would it take to build? They're pumping sand and dredging right now, today.

ggm• 5 years ago

The risk of the ship sagging or "hogging" is real. Tugboats are putting asymmetrical load on the vessel. These things routinely take km to stop, and km to turn. Moving them against a suction force, is trying to break resistance to being moved. Thats.. putting unusual stress on the frame. These things are not done lightly, especially in a fully loaded ship with a high centre of gravity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmlTk_3NN_g shows flexion in a ship during a storm in the indian ocean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89Mw6L69b6Y is less spectacular but also shows how un-rigid these boats are.

No amount of intermodal container stacking is going to offset this, and the containers and mounts are not designed to provide rigidity or load to the vessel in this way as I understand it.

veilrap• 5 years ago

This is just such an amusingly colossal mess, a fitting epilogue to 2020.

JKCalhoun2• 5 years ago

"Worst case scenario is that she breaks in half because of [uneven] weight distributions."

I usually think of "worst case scenarios" as putting things into perspective in a somewhat reassuring way.

As in, "Worst case scenario, this takes another week and we have freed up the canal."

But wow, that worst case scenario....

Gwypaas2• 5 years ago

The drawings are not at all to scale making it hard to comprehend the issue.

The ship has a draft of 16m. the canal is 24m deep in the 121m wide fairway, quickly becoming shallower outside. This allows for the navigation of ships with up to 20m draft.

For the actual side gradients see this image:

https://www.suezcanal.gov.eg/English/About/SuezCanal/Publish...

For extra credit assume some block coefficient and calculate how much sand was moved pushing all the way up to both banks.

Both sides are firmly stuck in the banks. This means unloading containers until the front of the ships starts to float again will tip the vessel aft lodging that side even harder. Same with the reverse. So to do that you would need to unload from both sides to not risk cracking the hull or make one side more firmly stuck. Therefore likely unloading from the middle also.

Now you need barges and cranes. The vessel is 60m wide and the height is about 70m, say 60m to the highest container. A container may weigh up to 30 tons. It's an awful operation.

Really tough challenge.

souprock4• 5 years ago

Solution: Mil Mi-26

Wikipedia says: As of 2016, the Mi-26 still holds the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale world record for the greatest mass lifted by a helicopter to 2,000 metres (6,562 ft) – 56,768.8 kilograms (125,000 lb) on a flight in 1982.

That is 56.8 to 62.5 tons, depending on the type of ton. Lift two containers at once.

Gwypaas2• 5 years ago

Rebuilding the entire drive train between each lift. The spec says 20 tons in regular operations. Maybe some more switching fuel for payload, but then you need to spend more time refueling and transiting.

ronnier• 5 years ago

Was this an intentional act or an accident?

dmoy• 5 years ago

Accident. There was very adverse weather during the crossing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/03/25/faq-suez-can...

ChrisGranger• 5 years ago

So was the "ass and dick pic" the ship apparently drew via location tracker, that was posted on Vice, proven to be a hoax?

https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkdjzb/cargo-ship-suez-canal...

Because if this is real, it puts "accident" in a whole new context for me...

Laremere2• 5 years ago

The Ever Given being stuck is both easy to understand what's going on, and why it's important; However it's hard to understand why it wasn't easily fixed.

This seems to be a good recipe for a viral news story. The Suez Canal has enough name reputation to be at least heard of world wide. The pictures of both the boat simply blocking the canal, and map of all the ships waiting to go through clearly demonstrate the problem.

However, I'm finding the response to this laughable. Sure they tried tug boats, but after that didn't work, what are they doing? A single backhoe? Given the importance of this shipping lane, why hasn't every dredging boat in the Mediterranean already been put to work? Can't they at least found a second backhoe?

awillen2• 5 years ago

They've engaged some of the most qualified folks with regard to major ship salvage and are working on it. In the mean time, they're trying to do what they can with what's available.

It's exceedingly obvious given the scale, importance and national coverage of this that the issue isn't that they can't find a second backhoe. Your condescension isn't warranted at all.

Laremere2• 5 years ago

To make my point more clear: It's not condescension that they're unable to find a second backhoe. I 100% believe that the people solving this problem are doing a way better job than my armchair analysis can provide.

What I'm finding interesting about this story is the juxtaposition of how easy it is to understand the problem, but how far from the apparent response the "why don't they just...?" questions are. It seems to be a good recipe for becoming a viral news story ripe for repeated updates.

undefined1• 5 years ago

given the endless display of incompetence we've seen the past year on almost every front, I'd say it's fair.

Trasmatta• 5 years ago

There's obviously a lot more going on than "a single backhoe". The articles says "it will take a combination of dredging, tugging and removing weight from the ship to free it", all of which is being actively worked on.

However it's hard to understand why it wasn't easily fixed.

This feels like the type of comments you read when a major internet service goes down. As if resolving a major problem is just a matter of going into the basement and flipping the server on and off.

Problems are always more complicated than they look from the outside, and there's almost always a good reason it wasn't "easily fixed".

souprock4• 5 years ago

Transporting heavy equipment is really difficult and slow.

Suppose we want the very best. Let's put Bagger 293 by the stern and Bagger 288 by the bow. Come up with a plan to transport those from Germany to Egypt in a few days.

For reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagger_288 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagger_293 http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Workshop/Trencher.htm http://www.wisoveg.de/rheinbraun/rb-bg-17022001lnk.html

Don't forget to supply 16.56 megawatts of power for each of them.

ksm17172• 5 years ago

My favorite part of this whole thing is “if I were a canal this is how I’d solve this”. My favorite suggestion so far has been that boats shouldn't need their bow so they can detach it.

souprock4• 5 years ago

That is actually a decent idea.

The part of the bow causing the most trouble is a bulge that sticks out to the front. Shipping companies sometimes add or remove the bulges as needs change regarding ship speed. That suggests that it could be cut off without sinking the ship. There is equipment that can cut through a ship with a big chain.

ksm17172• 5 years ago

Why not just make a smaller ship

maerF0x02• 5 years ago

More than 150 other vessels have been waiting to pass through the canal

I wonder at what point the operating cost of those waiting leads them to just unload and destroy the ship?

dragonwriter• 5 years ago

I wonder at what point the operating cost of those waiting leads them to just unload and destroy the ship?

(1) as I understand the effect of how it is stuck, you have to unload very carefully or you destroy the ship in the process, well before you are done, and

(2) unloading a massive cargo ship like this anywhere but a specialized port designed to handle such operations (even if it's not, say, stuck on both sides crossways in the Suez Canal) is...well, perhaps not technically impossible, but not an “oh, sure, we’ll just do that and get things resolved right quick” option.

ebrenes• 5 years ago

That worked really well with the beached whale!

mrfusion2• 5 years ago

Could they put inflatable bags under the ship and then pump in air to lift it out?

theresistor2• 5 years ago

This technique is commonly used for smaller marine salvage operations. They're called "salvage tubes".

theresistor2• 5 years ago

For smaller salvage operations, salvage tubes (basically balloons) are often used to raise the ship off the bottom. I suspect it's impractical due to the immense mass of this ship, but part of me wonders how large of a balloon you'd need to stick under the bow and stern to refloat it.

httpz• 5 years ago

Can they try tugging from the ground? A tug boat's tug force is limited by their engine thrust. Maybe they can setup some tugging system near the banks.

gillesjacobs• 5 years ago

Next time I feel bad about making a mistake in code, I will think of the Ever Given: "At least my mistake can't be seen from space."

lnwlebjel• 5 years ago

The second to last image is interesting because you can see that the water line is not level along the side of the ship - perhaps its momentum caused it to run up a bit? It's hard to tell the scale but they may need to dredge a volume of sand/dirt (estimating) 10m x 60m x 100 m or 60,000 m^3. If they get the dredgers in place they might be looking at 3 days of dredging, if my estimate of 20,000 m^3 per dredger per day is correct. What a project.

This thread is pretty informative: https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1374942502684405761/pho...

I'm not even going to guess at how long this will take.

dang• 5 years ago

Recent and related:

Suez canal blocked by a massive ship - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26560319 - March 2021 (419 comments)

Also ongoing:

Is that ship still stuck? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26585282 - March 2021 (446 comments)

It 'Might Take Weeks' to Free Ship Stuck in Suez Canal - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26585480 - March 2021 (26 comments)

whymauri2• 5 years ago

Some quick points from my dad (an expert on big ships, 20 years at PDVSA as a failures analysis engineer and 12 years building propellers for navies in Latin America):

* Work on the ship can most likely only work during high tide. This will prolong the process.

* Many of the floating crane barges necessary to offload container weight function via strict contracts. Even if a ship is 'available' leaving a port early is breach of contract, further complicating the logistics of bringing help. The availability of specialized vessels to assist is essentially random right now.

* It's an oversight that the Suez Canal allows ships to traverse without tug/tow boats with high wind conditions (which probably led to oversteering). The Panama Canal has a more robust escort system that should probably be replicated in the Suez Canal to prevent this in the future.

* The excavators on the shore from earlier today are likely doing absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. Offloading weight via cargo and fuel with good tide conditions is likely to be more useful.

* His project estimate to completely remove the ship from the canal SAFELY is six to twenty weeks (worst case) of around the clock planning and operations. Big boats are dangerous and rushing could lead to casualties or even worse blocking hazards.

* The biggest roadblock might be procuring the specialized crane barges. He tried to explain to me what the difference was between the specialized cranes necessary for this ship and other crane ships but it went over my head.

He loves this stuff, so I can ask him a few other questions.

Edit:

* I asked him about the helicopter idea and he likes it as an aid to a larger crane operation. He doesn't know much about helicopters, but he does believe that with the right weight/container distribution it could help speed up the process significantly.

throw_nico3• 5 years ago

Can you ask him what he thinks about using cofferdams for raising the water level ( instead of lowering it).

I'm actually curious in hearing potential problems or ( if it would be plausible) a raw estimation of duration ( since you mentioned 20 weeks, that's a huge timeline).

Edit: I don't know anything about this subject. So it's interesting to learn/ask some stuff I wouldn't encounter otherwise.

whymauri2• 5 years ago

He said it works in theory.

He didn't estimate timeline, but it would take longer than a weight/crane operation. If the situation was much worse (partial capsize, somehow deeper entrenched on the coast), this might be a more plausible option. With the containers in an accessible location, it should be faster to organize a weight redistribution campaign instead. Just thinking about the logistics of safely building and deconstructing the dam made his head spin a little bit.

samstave4• 5 years ago

I initially said 2 months - but after watching this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzdxnuk-2pM

Its way longer than that - the other thing is to think about the economic ripple effect - short, mid and long term.

Also its important to note that the evergreen is now out of commission for at least a year.

It will likely go to another closer port, all cargo offloaded to other ships, then it will go into dry-dock for in depth inspection for fatigue and micro-cracks in the hull and infra...

nate_meurer6• 5 years ago

Is it possible that the ship is so stuck that it will never be possible to tug it loose, and that they have to dismantle it in place?

cauliflower99• 5 years ago

Oh man - that's worst worse case thinking! ...I like it

samstave4• 5 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzdxnuk-2pM

This guy: GCaptain sounds very similar in experience as your pops.

He goes into detail on a lot of the same points your dad makes.

He specifically says that its unbelievable that the Suez didnt have the appropriate bollard pull tugs or pumps available as a matter or course...

---

SMIT is the salver for the project, they are going to slurp the ballast, the fuel and are dredging under the front bulb.

however the EVERGREEN is *FLOODING* according to GCaptain based on the immediate request by Suez for highspeed pumps for the forward empty space - he thinks the forward steering props are leaking into the forward empty space. They also called for them for aft...

He goes through the various least worst and worst scenarios. Talks a lot about micro cracks and flexion, sag and hog...

Also its important to note that the evergreen is now out of commission for at least a year.

It will likely go to another closer port, all cargo offloaded to other ships, then it will go into dry-dock for in depth inspection for fatigue and micro-cracks in the hull and infra...

The problem with crane barges is that there may not be one that is tall enough to handle the EverGreen.

Anyway - send this guys vids to your dad - He would like them.

mrfusion2• 5 years ago

So could we dig out one side of the canal and then pull this ship off to the side to work on unloading it?

ToFab123• 5 years ago

What about a huge vacuum cleaner that can suck out all the sand under the ship. Is such an thing an option?

samstave4• 5 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzdxnuk-2pM

This guys channel is fantastic. Check out his other Suez vids - he is a maritime expert, former huge ship captain and very very good at explaining all the concepts.

Clearstory2• 5 years ago

How about: 1: create a THICK cushion that wraps around the entire ship using tires or some other items in bulk, wrapped in enough "netting bags” to maintain consistency of distribution. 2: Create a stable and thick “wall” (potentially using barges placed end to end horizontally with thick steel plates welded together to form a smooth surface, then park the barges next to the ship on both sides. 3: line up tugs properly distributed to maintain stress limits/stability of load, 4: Based on calculating required MTOW, stress and tensile factors, etc., determine the quantity of available military heavy weight helicopters, like the largest (Russian MIL MI-26) which has an MTOW of about 124,000lb, or, less capable but more likely available the American CH-53E Super Stallion, with MTOW of 36,000lb, with several likely aboard nearby US Navy ship. 5: based on number of helicopters distribution of stresses, safety, maximum length, etc, secure or engineer on-site the most suitable wound steel cables to use as tow lines will will be attached to each Heli. 6: Determine optimal distribution/placement of Helis based on all factors and attach them where they will be most suitable, whether evenly distributed on one side, fore or aft, etc. 7: Determine optimal “push points” on ship and create a very large floating inverted “V”, that is sufficiently wide and tall enough to enclose X number of tugs, using baffles to keep tugs astride within the V, so that their combined force will be directed specifically at those points, with cushion/baffles and barge “walls” serving to optimally spread the load without stress. Possibly use two sets, one on either side, fore and aft to counter or offset the rotation/stress of each other. 8: Calculate precise coordination of move, using Heli’s to assist in two ways; “lifting” the ship as much and with as little stress as possible and slowly towing the ship in whichever direction is optimal as tugs push the ship in desired direction, applying offsetting pressure on both sides. 9: reopen Suez Canal, justify costs by comparing to last revenue and finally, 10: drink heavily in nearest port bar. Just a thought.

Clearstory2• 5 years ago

Note: Obviously this all assumes that any one of the steps is feasible, whether it be maximum towing capacity of helicopters versus that required to lift a trillion ton ship an inch off the sand, availability of them, etc. I also considered using British made VTOL Harrier Jump Jets, which, in theory (and I have so far found not a single article even addressing the possibility) could hover as Helis and slowly ramp up speed enough to be of any use without snapping cables or breaking ship. They can’t maintain hover for too long and can’t be too close together, but their potential combined lift capabilities seem worthy of consideration. Plus it will likely be easier to secure as many as needed relatively quick. Also, be VERY helpful if an aircraft carrier could make its way up the canal as close as possible.

Suez Canal: How are they trying to free the Ever Given?

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