Why Plainclothes Police Had Striped Reflective Tape on Their Glocks

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/38590/why-plainclothes-police-had-striped-reflective-tape-on-their-glocks-during-the-capitol-siege

by vinnyglennon • 6 years ago

67 72 6 years ago

thedrive.com

millzlane• 6 years ago

Saved you a click: It's to prevent friendly fire during a shootout.

aeoleonn• 6 years ago

That's what I figured-- it's fairly obvious: "why would unrecognizable cops have a symbol on their weapon?" "Gee, maybe so other cops know they're cops?".

Why this is news or on hackernews is beyond me though.

jjulius2• 6 years ago

That's what I figured-- it's fairly obvious: "why would unrecognizable cops have a symbol on their weapon?" "Gee, maybe so other cops know they're cops?".

What's obvious to some is not always obvious to others.

Why this is news or on hackernews is beyond me though.

TheDrive isn't so much a news website as it is a magazine. This article is more informative than anything, and going back to my previous remark, it educates those who might not've thought about this sort of thing before. As to why it's on HN, same reason; not everybody would assume as much.

jjoonathan2• 6 years ago

I know about digital IFF but I had never given much thought to "old school analog" IFF.

I sort of assumed that uniforms were the primary mechanism, but obviously they can be spoofed, and with "tacticool" fashion as prevalent as it is they can be trivially spoofed. I never gave it enough thought to think up or chase down the actual solution. "They hand out gun stickers" is a delightfully simple and practical answer.

This is the best bit of trivia I've learned all day.

zaphirplane• 6 years ago

It could be to keep track of the official weapon, which would imply they have another one with questionable purpose

mikestew• 6 years ago

The only thing "obvious" is that your hypothesis coincidentally lined up with the actual reason...this time.

dafoex6• 6 years ago

I guessed this before clicking, but its still interesting to know it exists. My next question is are they like invasion stripes on an aeroplane - i.e. they are changed before an operation so the enemy can't copy them - or are they coded depending on factors like rank or specific training, like the shapes on UK police cars?

gnabgib• 6 years ago

s/It's/It might be/

While the article implies it has the answer (including with the title).. it's clear they're speculating and don't have the answer. A quote from someone who is qualified to speculate: "is not a totally uncommon practice"

onlyrealcuzzo• 6 years ago

Wait. How does one have time to see a small piece of tape on a gun before making a decision to shoot someone with a gun pointed at you?

peteradio• 6 years ago

There are a lot more common scenarios than the "split second don't shoot reaction" scene from every movie ever. From the videos I've seen a lot of officers were co-mingling with the "protesters", it would be nice to ID someone easily who *isn't* pointing a gun at you but who also has a gun.

TaylorAlexander• 6 years ago

They don’t. But if you see someone else with a gun before they see you, it might give some idea as to who they are.

evgen• 6 years ago

It is so you can flash the side of your gun at someone else in a dark/smoky/obscured room and they can see the signal, but you don't need to completely surrender situational initiative. The tape is reflective to help in this case. The person flashing the sign knows it is not 100% certain to work, but it better than metallic crickets or pass phrases.

masklinn• 6 years ago

Habit. They're trained to take in the scene in order to e.g. evaluate if they have a safe shot. Even if it only works some of the time, every time it works is a gain.

matt-attack• 6 years ago

Is it better to not even have a chance to work? Not sure why the choice has to be between a 100% effective solution and a "better than nothing" solution.

It's like saying to the Fire Extinguisher salesman, "But what if the fire is too big and I run out of propellant? No thanks I'm not going to own one."

jstarfish• 6 years ago

That isn't the point of the exercise.

Suppose you're an officer responding to a shootout between two randoms. The tape signals whether either of them are police.

(This is why I would never carry a gun in this country. Suppose you do stop some sort of crime in public at gunpoint-- any trigger-happy idiot who walks in is going to see you as the aggressor.)

stareatgoats• 6 years ago

Yea thanks, and now any and all potential misdeeders will attach it to their Glocks ...

snowwrestler3• 6 years ago

Obviously they will change the tape now that this version has been burned.

Nbox92• 6 years ago

This seems highly counterfeitable, not to mention a hostile person in plainclothes could pick up a gun marked as friendly from a dead security agent.

This tactic would best be against a force that doesn’t know about it, or an organized force.

xnx• 6 years ago

So, sounds like it's better than not having the tape?

ianhawes• 6 years ago

It's a part of defense in depth. It's not the sole marker of good vs. bad, but it's a way to minimize friendly fire incidents.

Notably, the US Secret Service uses a method of "color of the day" lapel pins and spends millions acquiring them from a specialized manufacturer. The newer models have RFID tags and IR embedded.

Could someone dress up in a suit and pretend to be an agent? Sure. Could he grab one from a dead agent? Possibly. But now you're making the objective harder for an attacker and tilting the odds in your favor.

ghostpepper• 6 years ago

How does RFID and/or IR help in the middle of a shootout?

SilasX• 6 years ago

Yeah, but defense in depth requires that each layer make the security strictly better, or, at least, not introduce a huge vulnerability.

If a non-cop picks up a tagged gun, that seems like it makes them more easily confused as as a good guy, and thus a lot more dangerous. And if you were already able to reliably distinguish plainclothes-cop from plainclothes, then what does the tagged gun add?

What am I missing here?

Darmody• 6 years ago

It's not always the same. They change it constantly and it's probably not the only small thing that they look for.

99_00• 6 years ago

It's a cognitive aid, probably linked to drills and training.

If an enemy has the same sticker it would slow reaction time and cause confusion, but not prevent coming to the correct decision.

irscott2• 6 years ago

If they swap it daily/weekly/randomly/per event a counterfeiter would have to have every known variation on hand at the drop of a hat in order to reliably counterfeit it.

Nbox92• 6 years ago

Yeah. Red/white looks like the pool of possible patterns might be relatively small, and you can carry 50+ rolls of retro reflective tape in a backpack. If you knew every variation it would be easy to carry them to an event, and then apply the correct one there.

hprotagonist• 6 years ago

"ok everyone, the drive noticed, time to rotate tape colors!"

jsheard2• 6 years ago

Variants of that technique have been around for a long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_of_the_day_(police)

It's less effective nowadays, during the BLM protests last year the daily codes were quickly identified and announced on social media

NovemberWhiskey• 6 years ago

See also the IR flag patches that were used by ISAF forces in Afghanistan.

dafoex6• 6 years ago

Do you have a source for that colour code leak? I don't disbelieve you, I'd just like to be able to read (and reference) the source.

jetrink• 6 years ago

It is used to differentiate "non-combatants from combatants in a crowded situation,"

Is it typical to refer to friendly forces in a conflict as 'non-combatants'? I would describe any armed participant as a combatant, reflective tape or no.

stonesweep• 6 years ago

Yes, a non-combatant is typically a medic or chaplain in a military role; as an example: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28596180/

Under the laws of armed conflict military medics are deemed non-combatants, and as such are subject to certain protections and limitations

A medic could be an armed (holstered but within visible eyesight) non-combatant.

dmurray• 6 years ago

Carrying a gun in a war zone is plenty of evidence (way less than the US would usually require) to treat you as a combatant and I could have no sympathy for an armed medic who got shot.

Giorgi• 6 years ago

So, all you need is a tape to blend in?

Jackim• 6 years ago

This is one of several levels of security that law enforcement uses. These markings would also be changed quite often—having the wrong colour would make you stand out immediately.

lightgreen• 6 years ago

Yep, tape of specific color/pattern used the day you plan your attack.

Ancapistani• 6 years ago

It’s far more likely to be a “unit designator” than “friend or foe”.

For one thing, they’re unlikely to be regularly changing out the tape on their pistols. It’s also very possible that in an actual conflict weapons could be picked up by the other side.

This is more for “Oh, that guy is dressed like a fed and his gun has red and white striped tape on it. He’s DSS (Diplomatic Security Service). I’m Capitol Police, so he’s probably not going to hear me if I call for his attention over our internal channel. Better transmit on the shared channel instead.”

djtriptych2• 6 years ago

Makes sense BUT why not tape on both sides? I think none of them did.

Still that's the most plausible answer. Only other thing I could think of was that they might help when reviewing video evidence later.

rozab• 6 years ago

The guy in the middle of the most famous picture seems to have tape on both sides. I think the other guys don't have tape at all, possibly because they're from a different branch.

slowhand09• 6 years ago

Yeah, Mr Lefthanded appears to be sweeping his LEO friends with his barrel also.

SoSoRoCoCo• 6 years ago

Basically, Sashimono.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sashimono

Why Plainclothes Police Had Striped Reflective Tape on Their Glocks

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