Hosni Mubarak finally steps down

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/201121125158705862.html

by dzlobin • 15 years ago

332 127 15 years ago

english.aljazeera.net

michaelty• 15 years ago

Next time, don't take down your country's Internet.

modernerd• 15 years ago

"If you want people to stay at home and do nothing, you should turn the internet back on." --- Conan O’Brian’s advice to Egypt

Regardless, the turnout and determination of the Egyptian people is an inspiration. Great to see the beginnings of a positive outcome.

zeteo7• 15 years ago

About the only comment thread on this story that has a claim of belonging on HN.

tomjen3• 15 years ago

Agreed. Sometimes people forget that this is "news for hackers" and not just news, however wide they are spread.

buro92• 15 years ago

There's great live coverage on the BBC at the moment: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

It looks like a carnival erupted at Tahrir Square when word got out. It was pretty vibrant before, but euphoria is clearly evident.

Qz2• 15 years ago

The carnival has actually been there for days now...

buro92• 15 years ago

Not like this, there's a reporter from the BBC tweeting how the streets going to the square are all packed, and palpable joy is everywhere.

Watch the video stream if you can, it's uplifting to see. It's more than just the anticipation of celebration, it's the pure and unadulterated celebration and the carnival atmosphere associated with that.

Just put it into perspective, a dictator that most have lived under all their lives, the fear that goes with it... it's all being released in one go.

It's really hard to watch these pictures and not feel that rub off, but down on the ground this is probably the highest concentration of pure happiness and elation on this planet.

Look, awesome is an over-used word and we're an extremely cynical bunch... but this really is awesome.

alain94040• 15 years ago

Flagged per the guidelines: if it's on TV, it doesn't belong here :-)

CWuestefeld• 15 years ago

The OP is Al Jazeera. That means it's not on American TV, at least.

noarchy• 15 years ago

They also broadcast a very useful live stream. It's on the Tubes, and it is relevant.

zeteo7• 15 years ago

>>The OP is Al Jazeera. That means it's not on American TV, at least.

Really? Because it's on Al Jazeera it means it's not on top of CNN, MSNBC and Fox News right now? A prime example of how logic flies out (even in the smallest details) when discussing politics.

ugh3• 15 years ago

This is what the guidelines actually say:

"Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic."

tomh-• 15 years ago

This event is covered on TV, moreover it is covered on other sites which are more mainstream such as reddit, digg etc. I come here to read tech and startup news, this is not something I want to read about on HN.

It is also a shame that users who try to question the relevancy of HN submissions get downvoted. Even though it has more than 100 upvotes it is still not relevant to what this site is about. Unless the goal is to become reddit 2.0 with lots of mainstream articles simply because a large amounts of users think it is interesting, I think this kind of articles are best enjoyed elsewhere on the web. I flagged this story, even though I find it interesting.

zeteo7• 15 years ago

The general story has nothing to do with hacking or startups, it's not intellectually interesting, and is currently being covered in the smallest detail and speculation on countless TV channels, not to mention Reddit and Digg. If you have some intellectually interesting technical details/speculation about what this might mean for e.g. Internet and the business environment in Egypt, go ahead and post that. But the general story was off-topic yesterday, and still is today.

koenigdavidmj• 15 years ago

Enough users upvoted it to get it in spot #1 on the front page. The userbase thus finds it relevant to them.

derleth• 15 years ago

> Enough users upvoted it to get it in spot #1 on the front page.

Well, now I'm curious to see if pg manually shoves it off again, like he did with the earlier Very Popular Egypt Submission.

zeteo7• 15 years ago

No, it probably means the userbase has grown too much and HN needs a bit more policing in order to stay on topic.

michaelchisari3• 15 years ago

Not to mention that I come here specifically to hear HN's views on the situation.

goatforce5• 15 years ago

Watching Al Jazeera's live stream and they had one of their journalists on the phone from the square. She expressed excitement and delight that Mubarak was gone. The host guy back in the studio pointed out the journalist on the phone had been impartial up until now, and basically apologised for her expressing her opinion.

I thought that was pretty classy.

bvi• 15 years ago

He actually said something along the lines of "...do forgive her for her reaction. She was 1 week old when Mubarak came into office."

Very cool.

zalew4• 15 years ago

Now it happened another time, and he was even more harsh, sth like "we are sorry that some of our Egyptian correspondents express their private emotions and opinions instead of only doing their proffession". That's what shows class and a really PRO approach. In Poland, when the pope died or the plane crashed, journalists of our local news stations started a crying/mourning contest - it was disgusting and unbearable to watch, and nobody from tv even cared to think that there was something extremely not proffessional about it.

dgallagher• 15 years ago

Link to stream: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

hasenj6• 15 years ago

> The host guy back in the studio pointed out the journalist on the phone had been impartial up until now, and basically apologised for her expressing her opinion.

Really? I haven't been following the English Aljazeera, but the Arabic Al-Jazeera was not impartial at all throughout the revolution (which I don't mind).

jarin• 15 years ago

It seems like the Arabic Al-Jazeera is more like the Fox News of the Arab world, while English Al-Jazeera is trying really hard to be more like BBC World.

sfphotoarts• 15 years ago

or possibly a little condescending.

russnewcomer• 15 years ago

Mubarak handing power to the army probably means that the regime lives on, Mubarak's just not in charge of it anymore. Egypt's issues aren't settled now, this is only a step and it remains to be seen if real, true, democratic change is going to happen.

csomar3• 15 years ago

True. But there is an election coming up next. Now they have just began, Tunisia has just began too. There is an opportunity here since media will be opened (it already opened in Tunisia) and also the doors for true opponents. It's time to guard the election and ensure that the right one is elected.

We have just began, and I hope everything will be fine.

bugsy• 15 years ago

Many Egyptians were talking about having a constitutional convention to decide what sort of government they want. Perhaps it will acknowledge inalienable rights reserved to the people for example.

Hopefully that will be the next step, anything less than starting from scratch with their government is going to leave the old system and those who gained power from it in place.

baltcode• 15 years ago

True, this is only step 1. Torturer in chief also needs to step down, emergency lifted, and free elections have to be held. Look forward to steps 2, 3, 4.

cypherpunks01• 15 years ago

Very interesting English Al Jazeera opinion article about vice-president Omar Suleiman, entitled "Suleiman: The CIA's man in Cairo":

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/02/2011271...

motters• 15 years ago

The difficult part is always what comes after a revolution. Having the military in charge isn't necessarily a good thing, and whether Egypt does get a democratic government will now depend upon how the military behaves.

alex_c• 15 years ago

Not to mention that a democratic government, in itself, doesn't guarantee anything - large-scale corruption and incompetence are still a very real possibility.

Still, hopefully a step in the right direction - more options are now available to the Egyptian people.

yummyfajitas• 15 years ago

Not just a real possibility, but a very likely one. I recall that in one interview, a protester was complaining about the lack of economic opportunity. "The supervisor hires all his nephews! Regular people can't get any hours!" (Or something to that effect.)

No matter how awesome the new regime is, I doubt they can fix this. Sad fact: many of Egypt's problems are inflicted by the people on themselves, not by Mubarak.

strlen• 15 years ago

> large-scale corruption and incompetence are still a very real possibility

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

-- C. S. Lewis

kilian• 15 years ago

If you can, I urge you to get a look of the live stream at aljazeera: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/ The Tahir square is absolutely euphoric.

elvirs• 15 years ago

I'm very happy for Egyptian people. People of Egypt deserve a better leader, a better government. The guy who said 'I am ready to die' yesterday on CNN almost made me cry. Thats the spirit, and that spirit deserved a victory which they finally achieved. I hope the same happens for other nations that have been held under dictatorship for decades.

sigzero2• 15 years ago

Let's hope that is what they get.

theFco• 15 years ago

They've set an example on how to do a peaceful revolution. They've earned the right to choose their own government. Now, they'll have to learn from their choices, good and bad ones!

csomar3• 15 years ago

Don't be very enthusiastic, especially for Egypt. They have got a very sensible position. They are Israel neighbor, they have the Suez Canal, and also the most populated Arabic country (They can become a power). That is, I don't think that the U.S will give up that easily.

Also keep in mind, that the Arab nations want to unite. If you give the people the power, you'll see tomorrow that most of the borders are removed, which let the place for the building of a very strong and influential civilization.

As I said in my other thread, we have just began and it'll be a very long road and will need a very long breath.

MichaelSalib10• 15 years ago

If you give the people the power, you'll see tomorrow that most of the borders are removed

WTF? Have you ever spoken with an actual Arab?

If you had, you'd know that nationalism is alive and well. Egyptians are quite cognizant of the differences between themselves and Syrians or Lebanese or Jordanians. They have zero interest in abolishing borders and uniting with other countries.

But what do I know, I'm only an Egyptian.

hasenj6• 15 years ago

For the current stage, both Tunisia and Egypt, it's more important for these countries to regain their internal health: freedom for the people, fixing the corruption.

Getting rid of external influences (specially American) is a whole other story; to come in a later stage.

mseebach• 15 years ago

If these people spend all this energy and all this time, all over the right to initiate a war they'll lose with huge casualties with Israel, and close the hugely profitable Suez channel to US ships, then I have neither sympathy or enthusiasm for them. They'll just be Iran #2. If they don't make trouble in those two areas, the US won't care a bit.

BvS• 15 years ago

Reminds of 1989 here in Germany! Congratulation Egypt!

zalew4• 15 years ago

Which began in 1980 in Poland

hcho2• 15 years ago

Checz had it even earlier.

shareme• 15 years ago

the bad thing is that HM stole $50 billion from the citizens of Egypt..and the USA does nothing and UN does nothing

Vivtek• 15 years ago

Perhaps a post-HM government can do something about it - now that there will be one.

ceejayoz3• 15 years ago

That $50 billion number seems to have been fished out of thin air. IIRC, the US government estimates his fortune at closer to $2 billion. Large, yes, but not at the same level.

mdolon• 15 years ago

That makes me wonder though - he and many other rulers (I'm guessing) have amassed billions but are hush about it, so there's no telling who is funneling money and how much of it. It would be nice if Forbes added these rulers to their wealthiest people in the world lists.

beambot• 15 years ago

Seriously? To me, the difference between $2B and $50B seems like diminishing returns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns). If you disagree, then I'd like to be you for a few days... ;-)

michaelchisari3• 15 years ago

‎"The struggle for justice should never be abandoned because of the apparent overwhelming power of those who seem invincible in their determination to hold on to it. That apparent power has, again and again, proved vulnerable to human qualities less measurable than bombs and dollars: moral fervor, determination, unity, organization, sacrifice, wit, ingenuity, courage, patience."

- Howard Zinn

xbryanx• 15 years ago

When do we get to see who is really in power now? It's hilarious to me that all the pictures of the 1-10 powers in Egypt are grainy screengrabs from old TV programs.

othello• 15 years ago

And Mubarak's Wikipedia entry is already edited:

Muhammad Hosni Sayyid Mubarak was the President of Egypt from 1981 to 2011. [1]

History unfolding live indeed.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosni_Mubarak

arepb• 15 years ago

The live stream is just incredible to watch. Just inspiring to hear these cheers http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

netmau5• 15 years ago

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/Fe...

This is one of the better images I've seen showing the pure scale of the protests. In the US, we had our "million man march" which questionably had so many people. In Egypt, many millions have been involved over the course of far longer than one day. With relation to their total population, the size of the movement is pretty mind boggling.

larsberg• 15 years ago

The only time I've seen this many people gathered in one place in the US... is back when Chicago used to do a single, large fireworks display.

I don't know whether that's a good or bad thing.

JabavuAdams• 15 years ago

Interesting (take-home?) interview question: how many people are in this picture? How confident are you of that number? What are your tightest upper and lower bounds?

siculars3• 15 years ago

I am so happy for the people of Egypt. This is one for the history books. Our kids will be reading about this revolution as an example of the peaceful power of the people.

I have to congratulate AlJazeera for their tremendous coverage of unfolding events. They have been very professional and fearless in their reporting. Western media should take notes.

Who knows what tomorrow will bring but for now Egypt and the entire world can smile wide and celebrate.

Mazal Tov to the people of Egypt!

ido3• 15 years ago

    Mazal Tov to the people of Egypt!

Why would you congratulate the people of Egypt in Hebrew?

fleitz• 15 years ago

I'd suspect that after enduring 30 years of struggle against a dictator that they wouldn't care what language they were cheered in. Most people just want to live in peace, it's only those who have an axe to grind that incite things by worrying what language someone is congratulated in.

siculars3• 15 years ago

Why would it matter?

defen2• 15 years ago

When I see this kind of reaction, I can't help but think that the speaker is a "True Believer" in democracy and mob rule (in the Eric Hoffer sense). I readily concede that I know nothing about Egypt or what is going on there, but don't you think it's a little too early to congratulate and feel happy for the people? You even admit that no one knows what the country will be like in the next few years, but you want to celebrate, simply because they overthrew their president!

siculars3• 15 years ago

Guilty as charged. I am a "True Believer" in Democracy. Also, I believe truly that power and the right to govern is bestowed by the people. Clearly the people carried the day in Egypt.

Nobody knows what tomorrow will bring but it will not be under the foot of a dictator at least we know that - and how could that be bad? Am I scared that things will not go so well, sure. But I'm an optimist and I got to work for and I got to hope that things will work out for the best - for Egyptians, for Arabs, for Muslims, for Africans, for Israel, for Americans and for all people who want to be free.

mynameishere4• 15 years ago

Ok. We'll see what happens.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MB02Ak01.html

In the most fundamental matters, President and Mrs Mubarak are incomparably more enlightened than the Egyptian public.

MichaelSalib10• 15 years ago

So, does kidnapping innocent people off the streets, imprisoning them in dungeons and torturing them by wiring car batteries to their genitals count as "fundamental"? Or is that just one of those insignificant matters?

What about stealing billions of dollars from your people? Is that a sign of enlightenment?

mynameishere4• 15 years ago

"We'll see what happens."

The discussions I've seen about Egypt seem to assume that it can be governed like the countries we're familiar with. Most of the things that seem evil are in fact cock-ups or unfortunate necessities. We learned about this after ousting Saddam Hussein, and were forced into all sorts of brutalities that indeed would not work well in the US or Britain.

MichaelSalib10• 15 years ago

This is my favorite description of enlightenment ever, taken from http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/002883.html

Here's a section from The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright, describing what Mubarak's security services did after Ayman al-Zawahiri attempted to assassinate Mubarak in 1995:

To deal with Zawahiri, Egyptian intelligence agents devised a fiendish plan. They lured a thirteen year-old boy named Ahmed into an apartment with the promise of juice and videos. Ahmed was the son of Mohammed Sharraf, a well-known Egyptian fundamentalist and a senior member of [Zawahiri's organization] al-Jihad. The boy was drugged and sodomized; when he awakened, he was confronted with photographs of the homosexual activity and threatened with the prospect of having them shown to his father. For the child, the consequences of such a disclosure were overwhelming. "It could even be that the father would kill him," a source close to Zawahiri admitted.

After this the Egyptian agents got the first boy to lure in a second, whom they also drugged and raped. Then they got the two to spy on Zawahiri in an attempt to kill him. Then Zawahiri caught the two boys spying. And then he had them both shot.

I guess enlightenment means raping children now. Are you enlightened too?

fourspace• 15 years ago

Whatever outcome may result over time, I'm happy for the people of Egypt. Once again, the desire to be free eventually overwhelms the arbitrary tyranny of a dictator.

It will certainly be interesting to see if this leads to a domino effect in the Middle East and how it affects US foreign policy.

yalforreca• 15 years ago

Portugal had a revolution in 1974 that ended an dictatorship of more than 40 years. The Army was fed up with the colonial wars and persuaded by the left-wing illegal parties, took control of the country. Democracy exists in Portugal, but corruption and widespread cleptocracy by a small number of elite families still rule. I hope Egypt avoids that.

philsalesses• 15 years ago

This is a side question and I'd like to get any/all opinions since I have yet to find a suitable answer to this.

How do I, as an American citizen, minimize cognitive dissonance when the following disparate events occur?

America's stance: democracy and 'freedom' are fundamental rights of all people.

-and-

America's actions: refusing to recognize a democratically elected body because the resulting will of the people is openly hostile towards America and Israel (Hamas winning seats in Palestinian elections).

_djo_3• 15 years ago

The positions are not fundamentally opposed. You can believe that people have the right to choose their own leaders while also believing both that they should be accountable for that choice and that those leaders can be ignored or shunned if they do not follow the rules of the international community.

In other words, the only legitimacy that being elected democratically confers on leaders is that of being the authentic representatives of their people. The greater legitimacy of a government as a member of the international community of states might be influenced by whether it's democratic or not but is determined mostly by that governments actions and stated intentions. Hamas has refused to agree to steps, such as renouncing terrorism, that the US, EU and Israel believe are fundamental to a government being a member of the international community.

So they have accepted the results of the election, but they're under no obligation to be friendly with the result.

With that said, like all great powers the US's foreign policy is at times hypocritical to some extent. It will extol the virtues of rapid democratic change in some countries while discouraging it in others. This seeming mismatch in standards is the problem with a foreign policy with an idealistic rhetoric but a realpolitik reality. The truth is that encouraging rapid democratic change in all cases would be foolish and irresponsible, because it could lead to far worse outcomes than the status quo. Some countries can handle that kind of explosive change, others can't and need to be shepherded towards it at a slower rate. I think Egypt falls into the latter category.

philwelch• 15 years ago

Is it really that difficult to imagine that the US would turn a cold shoulder to organizations that recruit suicide bombers to blow up buses and pizzerias? Even if they win an election?

jim_h• 15 years ago

It's indeed been a roller-coaster.

2/10 morning - He's going to step down.

2/10 evening - He's not stepping down.

2/11 morning - He's really stepping down.

Hopefully the rest of the ride will be less bumpy and more pleasant.

logjam• 15 years ago

Another example of nonviolent action leading to real political change.

Now if the U.S. government gets on the ball, they will redirect some substantial portion of the Egyptian ~$2 billion military aid and announce we will help build science and technical schools, universities, and hospitals.

Thanks to those of you who have been hosting and continue to host Tor bridges in support of emerging democracies:

https://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-doc-relay.html.en

stcredzero• 15 years ago

redirect some substantial portion of the Egyptian ~$2 billion military aid and announce we will help build science and technical schools, universities, and hospitals

Finding a way to ameliorate the corruption stifling the economy would have bigger bang for the buck.

_djo_3• 15 years ago

Halting or redirecting the military aid would be the worst thing the US could do, because it would force the military (the guys who are actually in charge now) into a corner, remove any hope of being able to co-operate with it and undermine the most important source of stability the country has.

In any case, Egypt's security requirements are not going anywhere and the country will still have to maintain a sizable military in future, so cutting the funding will just mean that the state will have to obtain replacement funds from the national budget. Right now the $2 billion that the US gives to the Egyptian military is $2 billion that's freed up for the state to spend on other things like schools, universities and hospitals. That they don't do a good enough job of that already is due more to corruption than to any actual lack of funds.

eftpotrm• 15 years ago

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12433045

The BBC's Jon Leyne in Cairo said the announcement caught everyone by surprise, and all over the city drivers honked their horns and people fired guns into the air.

But the army takeover looks very much like a military coup, our correspondent adds.

The constitution has been breached, he says, because officially it should be the speaker of parliament who takes over, not the army leadership.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst. So far the Egyptian military have been on the right side of this situation but we have no guarantees what happens next. This is the end of the beginning, not the end.

codebaobab• 15 years ago

Stratfor is also calling this a coup:

http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20110211-red-alert-mubarak-...

ceejayoz3• 15 years ago

I'd say it's a revolution the army joined in on. Parliament is stacked with Mubarak's party, so having them take over wouldn't have been much of a change.

tybris• 15 years ago

Meanwhile, Israel is probably polishing its tanks and nukes.

xster• 15 years ago

puppet out, puppet in

jackolas• 15 years ago

The swiss have frozen his assets:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/11/us-swiss-mubarak-i...

I'm glad to see this, its the first step to sending him to the Hague.

Hosni Mubarak finally steps down

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