SamyGO: Open-Source Firmware for Samsung TVs (2011)

https://www.samygo.tv/

by pabs3 • 7 years ago

255 72 7 years ago

samygo.tv

noodlesUK• 7 years ago

Well, this is right on time given the discussion of Samsung screens phoning home ;)

AdamJacobMuller3• 7 years ago

Fantastic.

I would love a TV that entirely removes all the app features and retains my ability to network control it. I get why TV manufacturers don't want to release a TV like that, but, open-source replacement firmware seems like a fantastic solution. It could really be amazingly simple and meet my needs.

andkenneth• 7 years ago

The average consumer wants the smart features.

technofiend• 7 years ago

They might want the features but be unaware of the price they're paying. That spyware is a revenue stream that pays the manufacturer dividends as long as the TV is used. All the major brands claim TVs are discounted due to these marketing-included features. They don't actually reveal the discount nor their profit. And most modern TVs have antipatterns that try to bypass consumer choice or punish the consumer for opting out.

I'm not disagreeing with you as much as saying the "smart features" moniker papers over things the consumer might use to make an informed choice but those things are definitely in small print or essentially mandatory EULAs. Consumers may want the features but given the choice they might not choose to pay that price.

CivBase2• 7 years ago

They can keep selling their "smart" trash to the average consumer. I'll pay extra for a purposely dumb skew.

All I want from a TV is a good panel, at least one modern video input (latest HDMI or DisplayPort), and a nice-enough housing to hold it all together. Speakers are nice but not necessary since I'll probably just use something external. I'll even get a separate box to handle all the inputs.

No apps. No internet. No voice commands. No virtual assistant. No cameras. No ads. Just a freaking display, please. I will pay extra and I doubt I'm the only one.

AdamJacobMuller3• 7 years ago

I agree (and even said so in my comment).

I wish I had better options.

Basically I can pay a lot more for a less good panel.

wh1t3n01s33• 7 years ago

All the panels mentioned are LCD. I think nowadays the right tech is OLED. Is there any non smart OLED assembler? Also the dimension is a problem because I cannot find anything smaller than 55’’, and all are smart :-( As a monitor I think OLED is (also) better for your eyes. Am I wrong? Sorry for bad English

eli• 7 years ago

I thought OLED was more susceptible to burn-in

dghughes• 7 years ago

Ha! A very well timed article.

caymanjim• 7 years ago

Only 8 years between the two!

yellow_lead• 7 years ago

Nice beginners page here:

https://wiki.samygo.tv/index.php?title=SamyGO_for_DUMMIES

This looks awesome and I can't wait to try it out on my TV.

myself2483• 7 years ago

Except this doesn't appear to be an open-source firmware. From my reading of their wiki, it's a series of hacks and patches to make small changes to the operating environment. All of Samsung's code is still in there, unless I'm missing something.

Also this should have a [2012] or something in the title. Most of it is very stale and applies to models no longer sold or popular.

hannibalhorn• 7 years ago

I have an older (2015?) model I’ve rooted via SamyGO - your assessment is pretty spot on. Still, it does have it’s uses - by rooting I’ve been able to start diagnosing compatibility issues with DLNA servers, for example.

GordonS• 7 years ago

I have a 2013 Samsung smart TV, ut it hasn't had any updates for 3 years.

What benefits could I expect by using SammyGo? Would official apps, like BBC iPlayer and Amazon Prime continue to work?

dylan604• 7 years ago

Isn't this pretty much exactly how the Canon DSLR MagicLantern works? The microcode on the chip is not modified in any way. The ML firmware just provides a different method of using the existing instructions on the chip. Remove the card with the ML code, and the camera returns to the original operational mode.

missosoup• 7 years ago

You can make magic lantern permanent and not require a card.

withinrafael• 7 years ago

Agree. I donated few years ago and gained access to newer bits but they're for older firmwares with no further updates. And it's usually just a "download this VM and do these things for a semi working TV root". Not an organized effort at all, probably for legitimate legal reasons.

deeblering4• 7 years ago

To the webmaster: Here are a few notes on the copy that might help it read more clearly.

SamyGO is a project for legal reverse engineering and research on Samsung Television firmwares which is Open Sourced, partially. We try to fix problems that in the firmware. We don't want money from you. We make this modifications for us and ourself but you are allowed to join us.

SamyGO is a project to legally reverse engineer and research Samsung TV firmwares. We try to fix the problems that exist in the stock firmware.

This project is free and open source. We don't want money from you. Instead, we make these modifications for ourselves, and encourage you to join us by contributing further improvements.

victor9000• 7 years ago

We try to fix problems that in the firmware.

What?

_eht• 7 years ago

Enable deduction mode.

flafla2• 7 years ago

Clearly, these (minor) grammar issues are predicated on an ESL background. This package is very respectable and relevant to the #1 post on HN as of this morning [1]. Why disrespect the OP in the light of legitimate engineering?

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21899491

axaxs• 7 years ago

This feels like a bad translationparty(if that even still exists). The last sentences in particular make it feel scammy.

On that note, I don't understand what pride foreign companies take in writing their own English. I'm an engineer, not great at English even, and would do it for free likely. I can't imagine it could be that expensive.

Here's how I would word it:

SamyGO is a project that allows anyone to legally research and reverse engineer Samsung TV firmware. We will try our best to fix problems submitted to us that are found to exist in the stock firmware.

This project is completely free and open source. We encourage you to join us by contributing your findings and improvements.

anonymousiam• 7 years ago

Is it just me, or is this site now gone? I can see some content in Google Cache, but I am wondering if this site has been taken down by a DMCA request. If so, it's a bogus request because no "circumvention" has occurred, just reverse-engineering and alternative (and free) firmware.

jvolkman• 7 years ago

Works for me.

purpleidea2• 7 years ago

The project looks really dead, but it would be nice to have either a revival, or a new alternative. I'd like to get a new TV, but I don't want the junk proprietary stack that it comes with.

Ideas?

myself2483• 7 years ago

If I ever buy a TV, my plan is to simply use it as a big HDMI monitor. Slit open the side of the HDMI cable and cut the Ethernet wires therein. Never connect it to my wifi. If other wireless networks are ubiquitous by that time, open it up and neuter their transceivers too.

Any internet functionality will come from a device I trust and control, with only the display portion handed to Spysung.

jsmeaton2• 7 years ago

Hang on - HDMI can do Ethernet? That was news to me.

Semaphor• 7 years ago

I bought a medium-sized (42" I think) TV a while ago. My parents had a smart TV, so did friends of mine. I saw no utility but lots of problems (edit: in Germany, none of them even do the most atrocious shit people here complain about like ads or force-connecting to wifi). When I checked dumb-TV roundups there was one model from HISENSE which had pretty decent quality, mediocre sound and no network features at all. I am still happy with it, it has 2 HDMI ports and 2 USB ports and my computer plays sound :)

rsync• 7 years ago

It has been suggested:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21660793

... that one could build an "HDMI Condom" that would strip those pins with an adapter. That would be more elegant than cutting the cable open ...

I use a "USB Condom" myself when I want to charge my phone at hotels or when I want to charge from my laptop and don't want to set into motion 150 phone/computer interactions.

Abishek_Muthian• 7 years ago

I would suggest to get a cheap local brand from South Korea which uses good panel and decent enough compute power to render your desired quality without any smart TV features and use external means for apps/content.

girvo5• 7 years ago

I was coincidentally looking for exactly this through the stores (online or otherwise) in Australia that should in theory stock this, and the only one that was remotely close was Kogan's rebranded bargain-basement LCDs that had middling reviews.

Are there any particular brands I should be looking for?

purpleidea2• 7 years ago

I agree, however the problem is that it's becoming increasingly difficult to purchase a "non-smart" tv. At my local stores here in Canada I don't think any exist!

jon-wood• 7 years ago

A while back the Raspberry Pi foundation announced that some NEC displays would support using an RPi Compute Module to drive them, although I just had a look and appears to require a specific adapter which NEC don’t even publish prices for, so who knows how much it would set you back.

It’s a pity more TVs don’t support this as it would be a great combination for me.

walterbell• 7 years ago

LG TVs are based on WebOS, which is based on OpenEmbedded. Has anyone tried modifying LG TV firmware?

https://www.webosose.org/

https://github.com/webosose

... HTML5, CSS3, and JavaScript. For web app development, you can use Enact, a React-based application framework optimized for webOS OSE, as well as other modern web application frameworks ...native technologies including Qt ... architecture based on Node.js and Luna Bus
In addition to the openness as an open community to developers, webOS OSE also pursues openness to other technologies, especially open source ones, such as Qt, Chromium, and Yocto ... now taking a step further to other verticals targeting smart and connected products, such as robot, smart home, and automotive

heavyset_go• 7 years ago

Pretty sure newer Samsung TVs run Tizen.

Edit: Yep, Samsung TVs released sometime after 2015 ship with Tizen[1]

[1] https://developer.samsung.com/tv/develop/specifications/tv-m...

wadayaknow2• 7 years ago

Are there any open source alternatives to Tizen?

Also anyone attempted to reverse engineer the new Samsung 4k uhd TVs? I have constant network issues + obvious privacy concerns

dastx• 7 years ago

Tizen is open source and backed by the Linux Foundation. I think what you really want is a way of installing the OSS version onto the TV.

wadayaknow2• 7 years ago

That is indeed what I really want

imposterr• 7 years ago

If anyone wants a truly dumb modern 4K TV, without going through weird hoops to get one, I would recommend the Dell C5519Q [1]. You can get it for under 1K USD at CDW.

[1] https://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/dell-55-4k-conference-room-m...

electrograv2• 7 years ago

Sorry to say, but looking at these specs and price, this is not even in the same ballpark as the image quality offered by modern flagship TVs — which you will get (and should expect in 2020) in this price and size range, and also have the ability to be used as non-smart TVs for the privacy-conscious[1].

For the same price, you can buy the latest brand new 55” OLED TV from LG, which has absolutely spectacular picture quality in every respect (including fantastic color calibration capabilities), raw pixel response times better than any “PC gaming monitor”, and even input lag (overall end-to-end latency) rivaling or beating many gaming monitors today[2]. Nothing else even comes close, aside from Sony models (also in this price range) which also use LG’s OLED panels.

So rather than hacking your Samsung or buying an inferior Dell monitor meant for PowerPoint presentations, a far better solution is to just stop buying Samsung TVs. In addition to their deceptive marketing and other issues like intentionally bad (over saturated) color calibration out of box, they are designed to be impossible to correctly calibrate due to always-on tone mapping. They do this because they think it makes their TVs look better, and they’re fighting a losing battle against OLED TVs which Samsung does not have any answer to at the moment[3]. Tone mapping that cannot be turned off is a cheap software trick that compromises the accuracy of the source material in hopes of making their TVs have a higher contrast appearance than their hardware is actually capable of (but it does cause artifacts and other downsides, even in regular streaming content).

[1] If you’re really concerned about privacy, LG’s TVs allow you to decline all the terms of service and still use them as “old fashioned TVs” with just the non-smart inputs like HDMI. I’ve tested this on my new LG C9, and it works great.

[2] Objective measurements of the LG C9 OLED series: https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c9-oled

[3] Samsung (and everyone else) is way behind LG’s OLED tech, until they manage to get micro-LED technology to scale up and reach affordable prices. Micro-LED will be superior even to OLED, but right now it is not a production reality, and exists only as multimillion dollar display tech demo prototypes. One other possible alternate to OLED is dual layer LCD, but I don’t think anyone is seriously pursuing that for consumer TV use due to their power and heat issues.

rowanG077• 7 years ago

I'm sorry but the LG TV you linked doesn't even come close to gaming monitors input lag. The link you posted measured 13ms while good gaming monitors have input lag of a about a millisecond [1]. That is an order of magnitude better.

[1] https://turbofuture.com/computers/Top-Gaming-Monitor

ribalda• 7 years ago

A bit off topic: Any idea about how to install apps from two countries in your Samsung tizen TV. As a expat I want to see TV from my home and host country. If I change the country from my TV all the apps are uninstalled :(

netsharc• 7 years ago

Ah, I hate the stupid "convenient" localization. I remember reading an American being angry that Google's homepage came up Arabic because he was in Kuwait.

Recently I was in a foreign country looking up hotels in my home country, and even though I earn money there and was planning to spend it in that country, Google Maps was showing me hotel prices in the foreign currency. I was even logged in and had defined where Home and Work in Google Maps...

nenadst• 7 years ago

maybe something like https://pi-hole.net and/or some firewall rules could be used to stop all the offending traffic ?

Sounds easier than cutting physical lines..

Anybody using this and having success ?

gdm85• 7 years ago

If I remember correctly you need to make a donation to access some firmwares, but I cannot tell whether you can access the source after the donation.

SamyGO: Open-Source Firmware for Samsung TVs (2011)

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