Conceding Defeat - The Internet is Stronger Than I Am

http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/?p=432

by lionhearted • 16 years ago

169 55 16 years ago

sebastianmarshall.com

gwern2• 16 years ago

How much stronger you'll find in a few days or weeks when you break even this scheme.

prawn• 16 years ago

Reminds me of the final frames of this: http://i.imgur.com/6VBhD.jpg

We won't be ruined by what we hate, but what we love. Or even worse and not even with passion - we will be ruined/placated by things just mundane and addictive enough to keep us transfixed to screens.

aheilbut• 16 years ago

That reminds me, I've gotta finish reading Amusing Ourselves to Death.

nathanmarz• 16 years ago

I find the Pomodoro technique to be great for combating internet procrastination. All you do is take a forced break after some fixed time of working. I do 45 minutes of work followed by 20 minutes of break. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique

Since you know you're going to take a break soon, you can't justify slacking off during work time. It's a mental hack that's simple and effective.

Posts about the technique pop up on Hacker News from time to time.

shaddi• 16 years ago

Seconded. I wrote a little python script [1] that I use for this that additionally disables my network adapters during work time.

This is going to sound incredibly lazy, but I've found that a good way to keep myself off the internet during break periods (which often leads to extended breaks) is to play a game of Civilization. One turn per break and you'll be so absorbed you won't even think about HN or Reddit.

[1] http://sha.ddih.org/2010/09/04/pomodoro-py/ (it's rough but it works for me)

angrycoder• 16 years ago

Yeah. I'm going to call bullshit here. Nobody has ever played ONE turn of civilization.

frou_dh2• 16 years ago

Although I struggle with focus myself, I can't help but feel jaded about things like this. To paraphrase some stuff Merlin Mann said, the real issue is seeking out things that you care enough about that you don't need to trick yourself in to staying on track.

pavs7• 16 years ago

First, care.

http://www.43folders.com/2010/02/05/first-care&article=7...

bergie• 16 years ago

This is true. I spent the last week almost completely absorbed in an interesting UI design/implementatiom problem, keeping me online but crazy productive for the time. That, combined with a scuba diving course meant I was practically out of blogs and microblogs the whole week.

But of course sometimes you also have to do the boring stuff, and then tricks like this can help.

da5e• 16 years ago

When I'm hanging out on the web I keep a wire book rack with an open book on it right beside my computer. It acts like a third monitor and I find myself reading it as much as I do the other screens.

DanielBMarkham• 16 years ago

You gotta love the irony of a guy who laments spending so much time on the internet -- by spending time on the internet blogging about it.

(And I'm allowed to pick at lion, because I do the same thing)

frou_dh2• 16 years ago

Blah. This type of zinger (usually directed at 'complaining about complaining about') never works because the target is always clearly framed as a 'meta' point.

zackattack4• 16 years ago

"the target is always clearly framed as a 'meta' point."

Can you unpack this statement? What's a 'meta' point? And why is it not an effective zinger?

duck• 16 years ago

How do you know he spent anytime on the internet while writing this article?

wccrawford• 16 years ago

If you're doing something that's only purpose is to be posted on the internet, it's the same as being on the internet. Even if the cable is unplugged, you're still doing internet things.

That's a lot of the problem here. He's trying to stop something too broad. Instead, he should be picking the things he DOES on the internet that are stealing his time. Reading Digg/Reddit/StumbleUpon/Facebook for instance. Limit or quit those things. The internet isn't the problem any more than 'being outside' is the problem for laying on the beach too much.

robryan• 16 years ago

It's a tough one, if you did keep to this scheme I think you would miss a lot of stuff that helps you with the productive goals you are trying to achieve. It's not really something you can plan out either, a lot of the really valuable stuff and new ideas that help me both with the programming and business side of my startup I just stumble upon.

Limiting yourself would get more work done but there is always the danger on putting your head down and plowing on in one direction only later to realize much better ideas or methods that you didn't know about in a more closed loop.

Of course there is a load of middle ground and I guess that's what most of us here try and work towards.

JabavuAdams• 16 years ago

Let me know how it's going in 3 months.

I find I get excited about new organizational / management techniques, but very few survive the 3 month (never mind 3 week) mark.

thingsilearned• 16 years ago

Exactly. Its way too premature to be taken as advice.

I've been limiting and attempting to limit my internet time for years with various techniques, tools and even building several myself. Its still an annoying struggle.

The internet has put a giant entertainment box inside every cubicle in the world and people make a lot of money to keep you distracted and entertained :).

pavs7• 16 years ago

I have been reading a decent amount lately. This year I have read 28 books so far (should end up with 30 books) and the last 2 years I have read 50 books in total. http://iampavs.com/books/

I have found that reading books itself is not so difficult, nor is it difficult to find time to read books. The difficult part is to make reading books a _habit_. The same way going to HN and Reddit (or whatever your frequently visited site) is a habit. You unconsciously find yourself refreshing that page even though you very well know nothing new happened within the last 30 seconds.

Everyone needs to start at some place and I think instead of forcing yourself in to the habit of reading books, one should ease themselves slowly in to forming a reading habit. Someone mentioned Pomodoro technique and I would recommend that. But I would suggest against taking a mechanical approach in to reading and instead start with small chunk (15 minutes of reading time a day) and slowly built yourself up for longer reading time.

If you asked me 2 years ago if I can go through 1 hour of uninterrupted reading I would probably laugh at you. But I now find myself reading 2-3 hours of continuous reading a day without much problem (not everyday though). Getting a kindle helped to get some distraction-less reading experience.

Do it. Reading books outside your field is the best thing you can do for yourself.

elai• 16 years ago

There's reading, and then there's remembering and using most of it a couple of months later and years later. Otherwise it just becomes another form of newspaper/HN reading and just mostly gives a vague reference memory in the back of your head.

pavs7• 16 years ago

Unless you are savant you are not going to remember most of what you have read couple of months or years later however you are likely to have a vague recollection of the general gist o the book.

You are also not going to use most of the things you have read/learned in the book in real life. Unless you are only reading self-help type of books.

JesseAldridge• 16 years ago

I don't know. I have a suspicion books are overvalued due to the cultual weight they've historically carried. Wise people read books. We tend to think of browsing the internet as frivilous when compared to reading classic literature -- but is it really? With books, the individual ideas don't get filtered by up and down votes or what have you. You only get ideas from one person -- you don't get immediate dissenting views. People on the internet know attention is a scarce resource and make an effort to condense their ideas as much as possible. Long form has advantages, certainly; but perhaps a big reason we are so drawn to the internet is that it is actually the better use of time.

nostrademons3• 16 years ago

With books, the individual ideas get filtered by the process of revision that's necessary to produce a work good enough to get past the slushpile.

It's a very different sort of filtering process. Social news sites distribute the filtering load across many different people, but collapse it in time - any given person spends about 2 seconds deciding whether to up- or down-vote a story. The publishing industry collapses the filtering load across very few people (a handful of editors decide whether a book will be accepted or rejected for publication), but spreads it out over time (your editor will then work with you over a protracted period to make sure the work expresses your views as clearly and as fully as possible).

They seem to result in very different outcomes. Social news tends to promote articles that are just barely at the edge of common practice. They make you think "Oh, that's a good idea", but can't fundamentally challenge the way you think, because you don't have time to absorb a fundamentally challenging idea.

Books, however, can fundamentally change your outlook - if you let them. But the process of letting them is difficult, and you need to find the right book, and it needs to come at the right time in your cognitive development.

I think the Internet has done a great thing for making the masses of people better informed, but it still does not replace books. Partially because, on a competitive level, all of your competitors have read the same blogs as well. You need to distinguish yourself with something difficult, which ideally would come from personal experience, but books are often the next best thing.

ThomPete• 16 years ago

If you read outside your own area you are in fact doing something different. You are combining knowledge from other fields and tie them into your own. This can never be a bad thing no matter how different the field might be.

mseebach• 16 years ago

Reading books isn't just about consuming a simple, distilled idea in a short time. I'm working my way through a biography on Churchill in WWII, trying to understand the background for the role he plays in the English society into which I've recently relocated, and also because I'm very politically interested, and he's one of the big heroes of the movement I associate with.

This process (and lord knows it's a process, the book has been on my bed stand for months) has given lots of time to reflect on the person and his time, it has prompted inquiries and discussions with people better acquainted with him, the time and Britain. On a recent visit to the Imperial War Museum in London, I was able to draw on my readings, while the experience conversely expanded my horizons and my gains from reading the book.

Had this been a ten paragraph blog post, I would have gotten a re-iteration of the view that he's a hero, a central figure in post-war Britain, and particular in post-war conservatism. A comment on that blog post would probably point out the usual criticism, that the bombing of Dresden was an atrocity, that he was an unrelenting imperialist and that WWII was won by the Sovjets and the west just swooped in at the last minute to collect the prizes.

Well, I knew that. I just didn't understand it and it's implications. I still don't (and still have a few hundred pages to go), but I have a much better framework for exploring the issue.

One thing that good books can do, that I've never seen even the best blogposts do in a lasting way: they get under your skin and stay there. I read Microserfs several times in my mid- to late teens, and I'm certain the "Yes! This!" experience I got from this book forever shaped me towards entrepreneurship. I haven't read it for a decade, but the picture of sitting in someones garage passionately working on your own product is still my ideal of life.

A good handful of books have gotten under my skin in various ways, in ways that reading stuff online never did. There are many, many forgettable books, but the prize of that under-the-skin experience is enough that I keep trying. Even lacking that, getting sucked into an alternative reality is excellent entertainment.

Finally, I simply enjoy reading a book (or on my Kindle). I enjoy not having the distractions of a computer nearby.

coliveira• 16 years ago

> If you asked me 2 years ago if I can go through 1 hour of uninterrupted reading I would probably laugh at you.

My goodness. This made me stop in the tracks. I find it hard to believe that the web life style is making so much damage to people. I have always taken for granted that reading for hours is the easiest thing an educated person can do. I don't have the time now, but when I was a teenager I could read for 4, 5 hours non-stop (maybe with a snack or two). A few books grabbed my attention for a whole day. It is sad that people think it is an effort to concentrate on a single book for longer than a few minutes.

zaphar• 16 years ago

I completely agree. When I was a teenager I easily read 3-4 books a week. That pace has slowed since but I would guess I still read well over 50 books a year.

My mom tracked my reading count one summer and I clicked in at 200 books.

kranner2• 16 years ago

I've been forced into a similar situation for a week now. I moved to a new city for a new job and have no internet connection at home yet (and no TV or radio either).

It was painful for the first few days but now I am so much more relaxed and well-rested I am giving serious consideration to continuing this way for a bit. I also seem to be able to concentrate a great deal better than before: tested on a new (to me) Coetzee novel and a math textbook.

kranner2• 16 years ago

Update after a week: so that didn't last very long.

misterbwong• 16 years ago

I've done this in the past and it definitely works....in the beginning. If you want to KEEP your reclaimed time, be very wary of other time sinks. Don't just replace the internet with TV or some other similarly unproductive, brain numbing activity.

riffraff3• 16 years ago

one of my pet projects is a chrome extension that tracks where I spend time in the browser. I was always worried that I may be spending too much time on HN, reddit etc.

Now I have hard data, it's bad (about 10% on this news sites, still not tracking dependent time on linked sites) but not as bad as I thought :)

gintas• 16 years ago

Is the extension available to the public? I'd love to be able to see my own stats.

dekz• 16 years ago

There is this https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/mokmnbikneoaenmc...

But it isn't exactly elegant.

greyman• 16 years ago

Yes I too am interested about that extension.

riffraff3• 16 years ago

I will let you know as soon as I have something decent :)

known• 16 years ago

Internet will initially promote race to the bottom.

radioactive21• 16 years ago

I've tried to limit my internet use and I end up wasting it on something even far worst. Television.

I really dont go out much, because of location, there is not much to do. So me limiting my internet use amounts to working out and waching TV.......which kinda sounds like prison lol

I kinda justify things lately by learning online. For example I take classes online for various things like learning a foreign language, or playing the piano, or learning new technology etc

Conceding Defeat - The Internet is Stronger Than I Am

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