Hello Android

https://flak.tedunangst.com/post/hello-android

by ingve • 7 years ago

73 53 7 years ago

flak.tedunangst.com

nextos5• 7 years ago

After turning on, it starts applying security updates. Good. One month at a time. There are many months. This is bad.

I have the same experience with a Pixel.

Today I bought a heavily discounted brand new Pixel 2, because I wanted to try (pure) Android (and migrate to pure AOSP afterwards). After booting the device, I was downloading updates for 6 hours while doing nothing else. I really wanted to like this phone, as I don't like iOS either. But I was disappointed. Not a polished experience at all.

First many updates of applications. Fine. Quite quick. Then updating Android 8 to 9. Quite quick too. Then an insane loop of installing nth security update and rebooting. Why can't I get a fresh image in a single step? [1] Especially given that this is a flagship device from Google itself?

Furthermore, the process is really slow and full of glitches. Sometimes updates would stop downloading because there was phone activity, yet I never touched the phone throughout the process. After every update, my phone would spend a lot of time and energy "optimizing apps" (bytecompiling?) only to request rebooting and doing the same thing again and again. Very wasteful.

Lastly, I never got any notification once updates where installed and a reboot was necessary. So I had to keep checking to speed up the process.

Updating from Android 8 to 9 was quick, but there was also a serious glitch I didn't mention. I don't have a wireless connection, just LTE. For some time, there was no option to force the update to be downloaded using LTE! After installing some app or rebooting, suddenly an option to go ahead and use LTE showed up in the same window where previously there was none.

Also, the default settings in my out-of-the-box Pixel 2 out drained battery quite quickly, which I found shocking. Only after disabling NFC, bluetooth, location services and a few other things battery consumption was quite reasonable. I think also lots of services were initially polling for updates, and this drained energy.

[1] Apparently you can do this with adb. Many other users have had the same frustrating experience, though: https://reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/b04yxp/brand_new_p...

bitL2• 7 years ago

Seems like Android truly replaced Symbian, Google is the new Nokia! :D

nextos5• 7 years ago

Actually, I am migrating to Android from Nokia, but the Maemo/Meego branch (pure Linux) and it is really polished!

My N9, a super slow phone from 2011 feels in some ways better than the Pixel 2 which I find sad.

The UI design is top notch and blends so well with the curved AMOLED screen.

Also, the device is capable of standing by on airplane mode for several days with its always on screen elegantly showing the time and calendar events. My Pixel 2 drains battery pretty fast in the same conditions.

I cannot possibly understand how Google is not capable of providing users with a better experience despite so many years of work, resources and hardware improvements vs Nokia.

apl0023• 7 years ago

that sounds like an awful experience. All i can say is i did not experience any of this when i moved from an iphone 7 to pixel 2. I was actually impressed how much data transferred over and felt like it took less than 20min for everything to be done

nextos5• 7 years ago

I thought I was doing something wrong. But if you read the r/pixel thread I linked above, many other users have the same unboxing experience. I will try to fill in a bug somewhere.

It seems like Google needs to focus on providing a more coherent experience on all devices. Not focusing on just released ones. I understand the Android ecosystem is more complex than the iOS one. But still, the Pixel lineup is quite small.

snazz3• 7 years ago

Well, pretty much expected for Google software on Android. Surprisingly, the base OS is fine, it's just the proprietary stuff on top that sucks. You're unlikely to get Fi working with AOSP, but it looks like you're unlikely to get it working anyway.

Sent from my LineageOS phone, getting security updates weekly, very stable, and better looking, in my opinion.

spraak2• 7 years ago

Wow cool, I've been wanting to run a more true Linux based phone. What country and carrier are you using?

snazz3• 7 years ago

It’s still Android, just minus the Google stuff (no Play Services, all open source minus binary drivers, etc). I’ve used both AT&T and Sprint in the US and have had no problems at all. People who want the Google stuff can still flash Play Services before the first boot if they want and that works good too.

The device list covers lots of stuff you can buy cheaply used (upgrade a Galaxy S4 to Android 9, for instance) as well as high-end new devices: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/

salex89• 7 years ago

Ok, so you chose a random Android phone because it is mentioned on the Google Fi homepage, although a simple search would let you know that any unlocked phone is adequate. You realized you bought a bad phone for you without previously looking into what are you buying and you're dissatisfied with Android? You know what, stick to your iPhone.

spraak2• 7 years ago

Yeah, unless the author just wanted to write in a dismissive and flippant style, it seems they didn't do much research first

fastball• 7 years ago

I think it's meant to be at least a little tongue-in-cheek.

cameronbrown• 7 years ago

Or maybe there's an expectation that a phone explicitly recommended by Google Fi would actually work outside the US. That clearly left a worse taste in the author's mouth than anything else with the device.

rudiv2• 7 years ago

Google Fi is not an international carrier, and their mode of operation is significantly different from other carriers. This has its disadvantages and advantages, but not contacting support after waiting for your phone to start working for a week is unreasonable and I would say unrealistic. Anybody who is sufficiently tech-savvy would realise that if it doesn't start working in the first 24 hours, it's unlikely to start working without intervention. Again, if you're used to iPhones it may not be your cup of tea, but on Android one can troubleshoot that sort of thing on a basic level directly from your phone.

scarface742• 7 years ago

So he bought a phone that he saw on the Google Fi home page and he was crazy for thinking it should work with Google Fi?

snek• 7 years ago

I feel like the android ecosystem is so diverse its hard to write any comprehensive review about it.

I've had a fantastic experience on my OnePlus devices over the last few years.

To this point, I would have titled this "hello moto whatever and samsung whatever"

rabidrat• 7 years ago

the android ecosystem is so diverse its hard to write any comprehensive review about it

That in and of itself is the basis for a meta-review. The OP says this, in fact:

I suppose this is really my fault for not spending enough time, not doing enough research, not reading enough forums to buy the correct phone. Maybe some people are just too stupid to deserve a good phone.

and this is one of the reasons why I can't bring myself to buy an Android phone. There's not enough hours in the day to do adequate research, and then, as other comments here note, the experience even changes pretty rapidly as e.g. Google's focus shifts away from the Pixel 2 when they release the Pixel 3!

hestefisk• 7 years ago

iPhone / iOS may sometimes be a pain due to how closed it is, but it just works. And it doesn’t spy on you (allegedly).

FoxInBoxers• 7 years ago

Nor are they apparently as talkative, even when idle

* https://digitalcontentnext.org/blog/2018/08/21/google-data-c...

* https://i.imgur.com/sy9VZO1.png (image from report)

irascible• 7 years ago

I just got a pixel 3 about 3 months ago.. They delivered it in about 48 hours, and it was ready to go w google fi. Have been using it like crazy, and it takes the best pictures of any camera I've ever owned. The voice recog is flawless to the point where I literally rely on it. I've never seen it download an update. Granted it cost me about 1g all together, which is more than I've ever paid for a phone.. but so far my experience has been fantastic.

snazz3• 7 years ago

If you’ve never seen it download an update, then either it is downloading, installing, and rebooting into them them in the background without you noticing at all (impressive) or it’s not receiving security updates (very scary).

dijit• 7 years ago

I kept getting told to go android. That the Apple ecosystem doesn’t jive with my normal hacker/ricer/keyboard warrior persona.

So I got a oneplus one (when they were new), and it was a fairly decent phone truth be told, but the store was woeful and it felt a lot worse put together. On the whole I was left with a pleasant idea of what Android could be, and aside from the huge size of the device and the motivation span I was pleased.

Fast forward to the release of the iPhone 7/8, and I’m rocking my 5s which is what I was using when testing the oneplus- and now Apple are making phones as large as the oneplus and removing the headphone jack. Also that protruding camera is gaudy.

So I bought a Samsung Galaxy S8, which is large but the curved corners made it fit my hand quite well.

I figure since it’s a flagship phone it will be a premium android experience and preceded to make it my daily driver (which I had not done with the oneplus)

Now, something of note: I roll my own carddav/CalDAV and mail servers, in iOS these slot right in to the default apps and you can do nice things like push notify on email if you set your server up to do so. I spent weeks trying to find apps in the play store that could handle CalDAV and carddav. There’s a heavily promoted one that just doesn’t work. The default apps definitely didn’t work, Samsung’s version of android (at the time) was simply incapable of it.

Not to mention the UI bugs, the themes that had black text on black backgrounds in menus, the freezes and crashes and after 4-5months I had started to get quite sour.

The thing that tipped me over the edge with going from disliking the phone to hating it was when it decided on my behalf that it wouldn’t let me send an sms without signing up for a Samsung account.

I had avoided making a Samsung account for over 5 months and then it brings up a dialog that never goes away while I try to open the messaging app.

I gave that thing to one of my colleagues and he’s happy. I went back to an iPhone SE.

kingofpandora• 7 years ago

Too late now I guess, but davDroid is great and is available on F-Droid: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/at.bitfire.davdroid/

phreack• 7 years ago

I want to pile on the hate of both that garish startup screen. Seriously, it's not just terrible, it turns the brightness to the max and switches between high saturation colors so fast it literally hurts my eyes. If anyone working for Moto is around here please speak up about it, it's _that_ bad.

redacted• 7 years ago

How is this at the top of HN? There's a lot to argue against Google and Android, but this is just inane. Complaining about the _splash screen_ of a phone? This is clickbait for /r/apple at best...

nextos5• 7 years ago

He complains about more fundamental things than the splash screen, which I agree is an unimportant issue as it is manufacturer dependent.

For example, he mentions the issue of getting updates one by one, or being stuck with an old system.

saagarjha2• 7 years ago

I agree is an unimportant issue

It literally yells “Hello Moto” at you…do you not feel like this is unimportant if you wanted to say reboot your phone in a quiet place?

justaaron• 7 years ago

the writing is FUNNY!

lone_haxx0r• 7 years ago

Complaining about the _splash screen_ of a phone?

The typical argument of people without any aesthetic taste: it's inane, it doesn't matter, etc. I, for one, find it perfectly reasonable to complain about such a thing.

Would you buy a suit with a giant drawing of a penis on its back? It's inane to complain about it, right? Well, some people actually care about the appearance and design of things.

I say this as a Linux user and "FOSS zealot". Linux distributions have many design quirks and, let's face it, usability deficiencies. I use Linux despite that fact, because I prefer dealing with those deficiencies instead of dealing with the user-hostily of Microsoft and Apple, but if someone complains about the deficiencies of Linux I don't go around calling them inane.

sliken• 7 years ago

When buying phones for the USA, buy a phone for the USA. Buying grey market/used phones intended for other markets will cause problems. Not to mention those grey market phones are often stolen and black listed elsewhere.

If you want it to "just work" like an iphone, you'll likely be happiest to get a Pixel.

Especially with google fi, get a USA phone. Then your phone will work in most foreign markets... including Canada.

dvduval• 7 years ago

I use so many apps in the Google ecosystem like Gmail and chrome and they simply work better on Android. I still can't get push notifications in the browser on iOS. Now Google has brought the Chromebook into play and it's rocking. I can see how if you have been using Apple for a long time and then you switch to something foreign to you then of course it's going to be awkward at first. That's perfectly normal but this article is just silly.

apl0023• 7 years ago

i was an iphone 4-7 user and switched to pixel 2 and now im on pixel 3. I've enjoyed my pixel device a lot. my setup experience was nice and the transfer of data from my iPhone 7 to my pixel 2 was very smooth. one thing i should note however is my day job is being a pm for my company's android & ios teams. So i've had a lot of experience with an array of android devices that has made my experience pretty seamless.

Doubl• 7 years ago

I have that exact phone, the Moto G6, I love it, about one third the price of an iPhone. I turned off the sound on the intro, I only turn the thing off and on every few weeks anyway. The security updates install when you let them. I doubt there's anything you can do on the iPhone that you can't do on this.

ardit33• 7 years ago

My third smartphone was an android, and unfortunately Android is a 'death by thousands cuts' type of experience....

I remember, even when their Dev APi and kits came out, the API was convoluted, unnecessary complex, and also a 'death by thousands cuts' type of experience. IOS development is much better, (the pain point on iOS has always been the signing/cert and test distribution experience, but working with XCOde and iOS Simulators is still a much better experience).

Since then I turned into iOS and never looked back.

I think the reason is that google keeps hiring people that know how to implement Radix sort in top of their heads, and balance a Graph under 2 mins, but really know nothing about UX/UI and overall user experience. Good (native) client work is just not part of their DNA. Youtube, Maps and Gmail being an exception. While Music and all their myriad of chat/social apps being a failure.

I don't think there is going to be a change in the company unless they start fresh with new priorities, user experience before Academic Experimental mental exercises that their APIs tend to become.

Perhaps Fuschia OS is that change.....

hitekker• 7 years ago

I suppose this is really my fault for not spending enough time, not doing enough research, not reading enough forums to buy the correct phone. Maybe some people are just too stupid to deserve a good phone.

A common conceit among those who uses a tool or product that is impenetrable to others. It's particularly bothersome when this weak rationalization forms an equally weak pillar of that person's identity, a.k.a. the fanboy / fangirl.

meerita• 7 years ago

I switched in 2012. I never went back to iOS. For me, iOS died with Jobs. Once Jobs got really bad health, he couldn't guide the OS to the next level and iOS became dull in all senses. Android instead jumped to the next level with Kit kat and then with Material design. Material Design is really awesome and i loved all the gestures, customization and services around the OS.

mikedilger• 7 years ago

My biggest grievance with android and smart phones in general is their pathetically short support period. I have a stack of phones which are perfectly functional hardware but no longer updated. If you wait for the price of a newly released phone to come down to the knee in the price curve, you've waited too long because that phone will only be supported for about one more year. This angers me greatly and I have a strong emotional aversion to even the idea of buying a new smartphone. I may even cut off my nose to spite my face in this regard and buy a dumb phone.

saagarjha2• 7 years ago

iPhones usually get software support for at least two years since the last possible date you could buy them. Usually this means 4-5 years if you buy on launch day.

pishpash2• 7 years ago

Buy only bootloader unlockable phones. But Googlers are doing their best these days to disable them as "insecure".

justaj• 7 years ago

Does that really make such a difference? If the baseband and wifi require closed binary blobs which are cryptographically signed to a specific kernel version, what is the point of having an unlocked bootloader or installing alternative ROMs?

nathanasmith• 7 years ago

The author mentioned the Galaxy Tab S5e but I don't see anybody discussing it so I thought I'd give it a go seeing as I'm typing this on one. In short, I think it's great. Very thin and light considering the screen dimensions. Also, that screen has very thin bezels that are just thick enough to make holding it comfortable. The screen is extremely vibrant OLED that makes my iPad 2017 look washed out in comparison. The tablet has a light Samsung skin overlayed but it's still very fast and responsive though not quite as smooth as the iPad.

Android on a tablet is not for everybody though since depending on your app choices you could be in for a lot of programs intended for a phone looking blown up on this screen. So far, that hasn't been an issue for me since I mostly stick to the browser, Anki, Ghost Commander, Moonreader, emulators like SNES9X and PPSSPP which all either have tablet UIs or it's just not relevant.

The last thing I got this tablet for and which also works great is Termux to have a real command line interface and, though I didn't plan for this, Linux on DEX which gives you either a full blown Ubuntu desktop or you can just start up a BASH interface in a couple of seconds. It's great and it's the real thing right on the tablet. Even works with a keyboard and mouse with the Ubuntu desktop appearing on the tablet rather than external display. It's amazingly responsive too. Much moreso than I expected on a Snapdragon 670 with 6GB of RAM.

If you're thinking about an Android tablet, give this thing a shot. I don't work for Samsung; I'm just a happy user and since OP mentioned it and seemed to be satisfied as well, here's my 2 cents.

Edit: also my girlfriend has a Motorola Play Z something or other and that splash screen really is something else with the "HELLO MOTO" blaring and the robot doing a backflip I cringe every time she reboots it.

bkanber• 7 years ago

Counterpoint: I got a Pixel 2 while also switching from T-Mobile to Fi. Surprisingly only took like 20 minutes to transfer my number over and get the phone set up.

The only problem I've had with the phone is the dumb USB to 3.5mm audio dongle. Each one I've had breaks after only a few months of use. Very frustrating because I generally dislike bluetooth headphones but am forced to use them.

I've been loving Fi (it's great if you travel a lot but are also usually on wifi), I've used it in several countries and I end up paying around $35-40/mo (2 GB data or so). If I need to use more data I just go ahead and do so, without having to worry about what kind of plan I'm on, and I'm billed for it in a straightforward manner. Some people complain that their pricing is bad for heavy data users, but my usage just naturally lands at the 2Gb/mo mark so it works for me. I've had much better coverage in the US with Fi as well.

rudiv2• 7 years ago

First, we need to order a SIM. You can order a sim with a new number, which is what I did, but you must also enter a phone number for the delivery address. If you are trying to sign up for Fi, but do not currently have a phone number, I guess you’re out of luck. Somebody didn’t really work that user story all the way through.

Fi is designed for phones with eSIMs. With any model of Pixel and a small list of other phones, you don't need to wait for a physical SIM to be shipped to you, and (anecdotal) the 3 times I used it the activation was complete in <10 minutes.

Once it turns on, the screen plays this insane Hello Moto video thing with flashing colors. Possibly the most garish thing I’ve ever seen, without exaggeration.

Let me guess, you're an American who lives in suburbia? In places where the smartphone market is competitive you get a lot more garishness, so I guess your views don't align with the majority of customers on that one.

I pass through the airport and get to the bus stop. Still no data. Fortunately, I already knew which bus to take. I arrive at my destination downtown. Still no data. I wait a bit longer. I wait a whole fucking week. Still no data. I do not know what Google defines a few minutes to be, but I think reasonable people will agree it’s less than a week. I do not like Google Fi. Google Fi is a liar.

Project Fi has had the best support of all 8 cell phone carriers I've ever used, so if anyone else is in a similar situation, don't be afraid to check with their support, since one of the selling points of Project Fi is ease of access to support on a smartphone.

The on screen keyboard defaults to shifting the first letter of a sentence, which is helpful. Unless I’m doing something esoteric like entering a username into a website. So then I press the shift key, which... turns on caps lock. Nobody wants that.

You've been able to choose what keyboard you want for a decade on Android and the case you describe is the only time I've heard of that problem since a couple generations ago. AOSP keyboard will still capitalize if the website has incorrectly marked the field as text rather than a username, but that's not really the keyboard's fault.

There are way maybe genuine criticisms of Android in this comment section than there are in the article. If you approach a new piece of technology expecting to dislike it - or expecting it to perfectly mimic it's competitors - you're going to have a bad time. Most of the criticism in the OP (to me) smacks of someone who doesn't really want to be using Android. For most of 2018 I was using an SE alongside my Pixel 2; I noticed plenty of issues with Android and iOS in the course of that usage, but not one of those overlaps with the article, which makes me think either mine or the OP's usage was superficial.

c256• 7 years ago

Project Fi has had the best support of all 8 cell phone carriers I've ever used...

There are many reports of Project Fi having excellent support that turned into total horror when Project Fi ended and was replaced by Google Fi. They frequently show up here on HN, they often involve GFi charging people money for GFi errors, and they nearly always center around the fact that the service has only the thinnest vernier of front-line support followed by forced cancellation. The only effective next step anyone has been able to demonstrate is ‘Internet shaming’.

This all makes me sad, as I was hoping to transition to the service late last year. I’m still hoping that things improve eventually, but the trend seems ever downward.

eurg• 7 years ago

In case anyone wants to avoid bad Android issues by buying an AndroidOne phone: I have one (Nokia 3.1+), I'm stuck at Android 8.1, the security update is from February 5th...

After having been burned w.r.t. security updates by Samsung, then Motorola, and now Nokia, I'm more or less done with Android (once I have enough money to ignore the wasted Euros...).

It seems only people able and willing to spend 500+ Euros every year deserve basic security on Android.

not amused

Groxx• 7 years ago

Finally it stops, with January’s update. It is no longer January. I’m stuck at Android 8.0 January 2019 Security Patch. I manually check for updates again, and again, but my phone insists it is up to date. I do not like Android. Android is a liar.

No, it's up to date. I have the same phone - Jan security patch is the latest.

Hello Android

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