25% of Americans say they worry about money ‘all the time’

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/24/25-percent-of-americans-say-they-worry-about-money-all-the-time.html

53 64 7 years ago

mruts• 7 years ago

Instead of worrying about money all the time, people should probably just be saving and investing their money. Even on minimum wage it's possible to save a little bit every month provided you are willing to sacrifice other things for it.

When I was younger I had a lot of friends that were making minimum wage as cooks or whatever in Boston. They (and me) had plenty of money to spend on alcohol, weed, bars, pizza, etc. If anyone had wanted to, they could have made sacrifices and put away over $250 a month.

Of course, things are a little different when you have a family, but then again, in my opinion, you shouldn't have a family until you're financially stable.

I know live in Tanzania and the situation is so different that I find it ridiculous when people in America complain about income inequality or the lack of a "living wage."

Even the poorest employed people in America are far better off than most of the people here, and if you told them about how the so called "poorest" in America live, they would literally kill to switch places with them.

diN0bot• 7 years ago

you can't compare your situation however many years ago to someone else's situation right now somewhere else. the job and housing markets are different, people have kids, family obligations (spouse, siblings, parents, relatives, ...), ongoing physical and mental health issues, and of course different levels of support and opportunity based on class, race, gender, papers, etc.

ziddoap2• 7 years ago

Unique combination of "just try harder", "me and my friends were fine", "just dont have a family duh", and "dont complain other people have it worse".

Any more insights? What's your take on depression? "Just get over it"?

overthemoon• 7 years ago

Immutable law of the internet--if you write a piece about financial hardship, you get out of touch scolds in the comments preaching frugality and self denial.

Take one single second to consider that maybe virtue alone isn't enough. The world has changed since you were young. Take some time to learn about it, and develop some empathy.

throwayEngineer6• 7 years ago

I have been teaching people how to save money and time, and I've yet to meet anyone to change my mind on this.

You either accept that people choose to live outside their means, or people have no control over their bodies and therefore should not be punished for crimes.

I don't expect people to share ideas about this topic, it's silly too. Most of us want to help people, but many hn voters would rather by publically empathetic than discuss.

challenger226• 7 years ago

A question for you folks: when you spend money on goods and services that you know represent conspicuous consumption, and on ones that represent luxury, and provide little practical utility, how does it make you feel?

Using a 3.5% safe withdrawal rate, I've recently crossed the threshold where I could retire indefinitely at my current spending rate. Each day I continue working is now essentially only so I can spend more on a more luxurious lifestyle in the future. I'm fairly frugal, and it's been changing my perspective on work a bit. The first place I've been loosening up on is food.

SolaceQuantum• 7 years ago

One of the important things I find to try and understand is what it means to not be in the financial situation I'm in right now. It means being stressed all the time, and therefore the stress would affect my capacity to make long term decisions. Also, lowering my current heightened stress would become a higher priority. Therefore I would assume that (due to a combination of lowered decision making and a need to reduce stress) the spending of money to consume would actually be a very reasonable decision to make- it reduces friction on decision making and also temporarily reduces stress.

challenger226• 7 years ago

Are you living a bare bones lifestyle? If so, and you're still stressed out of your mind, it's a tough battle. You have my empathy.

mikestew• 7 years ago

only so I can spend more on a more luxurious lifestyle in the future

Or, you know, maybe allowing more philanthropy and leaving a charitable legacy for the future. There are many ways to utilize our high-tech ability to generate large incomes that don't involve spending every dime on ourselves.

challenger226• 7 years ago

Yeah, I think I will become more philanthropic soon, I can feel the limits of my hedonism kicking in, in a weird way. Currently my only philanthropy is volunteering at Habitat for Humanity every once in a blue moon.

The crossover point where I feel like I will actively enjoy giving to charity is once my portfolio reaches $2MM ($70k annual spend).

spraak• 7 years ago

Do you have or plan to have children? What about current or unexpected medical expenses?

challenger226• 7 years ago

Yep, married now, probably 1 or 2 kids eventually. To add a bit of nuance to my first post, growth assumptions of 6% per year on the portfolio mean that the eventual expense associated with children is probably already baked into the plan, given how conservative a 3.5% withdrawal rate is. Not too bad to worry about financially.

Reasonable insurance means anticipated medical expenses are limited to out-of-pocket maximums per year, which is reasonable.

scarface74• 7 years ago

What are “unexpected medical expenses” if you have insurance? At most you would have to save the deductible/out of pocket max. But as quickly as medical expenses escalate when you don’t have insurance to cover it, it seems like most people would be screwed to a level that all of the savings they could accumulate would quickly disappear.

sokoloff5• 7 years ago

Once our house is paid off (about 8 more years), the same would be true for us and we are not living a Spartan lifestyle even now (I'm also using the 3.5% SWR for planning).

Even if I could shorten the time-to-full-retirement by a couple years, it wouldn't do me any particular good. I generally like my field and my job. I'm tied to the area (can't freely travel 25+% of the time) by virtue of having kids in 2nd and 4th grade. So, there's no mathematical/financial reason to pursue a more Spartan early-retirement-extreme or MMM-approved spending plan.

With that in mind, I find I'm able to enjoy the luxury expenditures, because they aren't taking us off our plan. We travel for a week each winter to "someplace warm". We travel to visit family quite freely. The kids engage in whatever activities they want to try, without worrying about the costs. We own an airplane. We have cleaners that come by every other week. We buy quality food. We give to charities that are meaningful to us (many with money, some with significant amounts of our time as well).

On the other hand, we cut our own grass, do 95+% of our own car maintenance, almost all of our home maintenance, and cook most of our own meals, because we value the savings and example it sets for our kids (especially around charity and talking through the value of money).

theNJR• 7 years ago

We own an airplane.

That escalated quickly!

Djvacto3• 7 years ago

How does owning an airplane change your personal travel? Like, what kind of logistics go into travelling with a privately-owned plane? Or is it timeshare'd and someone else handles the stuff that has to do with getting a flight path, etc?

Or is it a recreational airplane and all my questions are missing the mark?

commandlinefan2• 7 years ago

I could retire indefinitely at my current spending rate.

I'm guessing you're not married, then...?

challenger226• 7 years ago

I'm married. My wife is pretty much just as frugal as I am.

milesvp• 7 years ago

Food is a good place to start. I was once very frugal, doing things like adding a can of corn to a can of soup to lower it’s cost basis (later cooking the soup myself to get even lower cost basis). Good food doesn’t have to be expensive, but quality ingredients will cost more than most frozen food.

After food, spending money on communal activities is a good place to open your wallet. Being around good friends will really make you feel good about life.

I’m reluctant to suggest money on physical goods. But I’ve noticed for certain things, quality really makes a difference. I bought an REI backpack 10 years ago that to this day brings me joy just looking at it. Also a good bed made a ton of difference 5 years ago.

Word of warning though. It is really hard to go back once you raise the bar in a given area. I am currently hemorrhaging money due to children expenses, and going back to only drinking tap water sort of feels bad in ways that are hard to describe.

Also keep in mind that significant others can really change your spending habits. Most of my fire fantasies flew out the window when I moved in with my girlfriend. And again once I got married. And again once I had kids...

souprock• 7 years ago

Me too pretty much, "currently hemorrhaging money due to children expenses, and going back to only drinking tap water sort of feels bad in ways that are hard to describe."

In my case, it will soon be 12 kids, and I hadn't personally purchased bottled water for normal home use.

The water situation is weird. I could never bring myself to buy bottled water, since it feels wasteful, but I got used to it being provided at work. This got me viewing the tap water as contaminated, but not having any alternate water at home. I end up dehydrated. I also drink lots of juice and milk, which isn't saving any money but it somehow feels less wasteful.

JohnFen• 7 years ago

when you spend money on goods and services that you know represent conspicuous consumption, and on ones that represent luxury, and provide little practical utility, how does it make you feel?

To be entirely honest, I don't really do this. I guy goods and services if they are fun or stimulating, make my life easier for me, or solve a problem that I have.

I can't remember ever buying something because it was luxurious, except for the occasional meal. If I did, then I think I'd feel like I was wasting my money.

mrguyorama• 7 years ago

I grew up dirt poor, and was heavily exposed to financial hardship.

I don't live frugally, but cheaply, and every single penny I spend on things that aren't "necessary" causes me mental anguish. Any purchase above 10-50 dollars requires actual effort to "psych" myself up for. I am underpaid for my industry and position. I have a years salary in the bank.

This is what poverty does to a human. The destruction caused by such anxiety cannot truly be fixed. Every day we don't strive to help our fellow man is a day we condemn thousands to a life of anguish.

Remember that next time you vote

faissaloo• 7 years ago

how does it make you feel?

Like part of the problem.

NTDF92• 7 years ago

I'm probably one of those, despite making well over six figures.

On introspection, I realized that I was worried about money because the system is set up as a casino. You just HAVE to gamble to save the fruits of your labor. Every investment is more speculation than production. In addition, inflation is way way over what the fed thinks it is.

To add salt to the wound, I'm actually capable of understanding these problems mathematically. My friends/relatives who don't understand all this are blissfully unaware. They live out their lives until a crisis hits and need to beg for money.

I sometimes wonder if I should really take the blue pill and live with the mantra ignorance is bliss.

throwayEngineer6• 7 years ago

I know that feeling.

Banking cash feels irresponsible.

But they aren't talking about us who are aware of the looming USD crisis and invest money. They are talking about those who don't invest.

b3n• 7 years ago

What is the looming USD crisis?

turtlegrids• 7 years ago

the system is set up as a casino. You just HAVE to gamble to save the fruits of your labor

Is a savings/checking account a "gamble"? Is a money market?

NTDF92• 7 years ago

Have you seen real world inflation lately? If not, I encourage you to do so (disclaimer: stressful days follows)

the_watcher3• 7 years ago

The actual findings are that Americans are feeling better about their finances than any time in recent memory. The headline seems to imply that there's an emerging crisis of confidence (there might be, but the data presented in the article certainly doesn't support it).

throwayEngineer6• 7 years ago

CNBC quality articles for you.

I'm surprised they are considered mainstream media. Is that only because they have a TV channel?

the_watcher3• 7 years ago

The article is fine! It's that the headline implies a different article that is frustrating. I know headline-writing and article-writing are often separate functions, but this is a headline for an entirely different article.

nbs_tar• 7 years ago

BOOOOOOOO CNBC:

Headline: 25% of Americans say they worry about money 'all the time'

Body: 25% worry 'all' or 'most' of the time that their household income won’t be enough to cover their expenses.

Link to 25% worry 'all or 'most' of the time: Leads to unrelated article about New Yorkers.

Underlying poll: "11% of Americans say they worry about money 'all the time.'

NRv9tR• 7 years ago

The Gallup article they link to (also the source) says...

"Overall, just 25% of Americans say they worry "all" or "most" of the time that their family income will not meet their expenses; 37% worry "some of the time"; and 37% "almost never" worry."

The source of this easily discoverable in the PDF Gallup links to on their article.

https://news.gallup.com/file/poll/249191/190429PersonalFinan...

throwayEngineer6• 7 years ago

I don't read CNBC anymore, I found their articles are clickbait opinions.

They don't seem to do investigations, but rather reporting stories with buzz producing titles.

the_watcher3• 7 years ago

It's even worse: the body is actually that financial optimism has "reached levels not seen in more than 16 years”

sabarn012• 7 years ago

So 1/4 people worry about money constantly. My guess is you could ask that question about a great variety of topics and get a similar result. I think the thing we are testing here is the cross section of those who are by default fearful and their exposure to whichever topic is on offer.

sabarn012• 7 years ago

The pew numbers for terrorism are pretty similar

https://www.people-press.org/2010/12/02/despite-years-of-ter...

throwaway1492• 7 years ago

I haven't had to worry about money so long as I've been in software development. It's a great feeling. I grew up in rural poverty and I live in fear of losing what I have. That's why I'm currently working more than one remote dev job concurrently and earning 2 fulltime salaries; to amass as much wealth as I can before the current bubble pops.

ProAm• 7 years ago

to amass as much wealth as I can before the current bubble pops

I think this means you worry about money.

commandlinefan2• 7 years ago

I haven't had to worry about money so long as I've been in software development.

Wait until your kids get close to graduating high school... my oldest will be starting college in about 3 years and even though I've been saving since he was born, I still have no idea how I'm going to pay for all of it.

throwayEngineer6• 7 years ago

Don't?

My parents never paid for my college and I Graduated debt free with an engineering degree.

Maybe having to pay for college will cause them to take internships to pay for college.

shados3• 7 years ago

to amass as much wealth as I can before the current bubble pops.

Its definitely in a better place than it used to be, but the bubble popping is in the back of my mind too. Many of us have gone through the times when getting a tech job was insanely hard as everyone post crash was fighting for the same handful of open positions.

I remember the time when I quit my position as a software developer to go work as a sales clerk because that paid so much more than the near minimum wage I was making. We live in beautiful times and absolutely shouldn't take it for granted... (though working multiple jobs is probably a bit much, take care of your mental health)

fullshark• 7 years ago

That seems low if 40% of Americans can't find $400 for a surprise expense...or maybe the fact that it's so low is why they can't $400 if they needed it.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nearly-40-of-americans-cant-cov...

astura2• 7 years ago

Because people like using credit cards for everyday spend, apparently?

"With cash or money currently in checking/savings" is at 45% but the next highest percent is "With a credit card, paid off in full at the next statement" at 33%. There's plenty of reason to use a credit card for a $400 expense even if you have $30,000 sitting in your checking account, so those who expect to pay off their credit card in full when the balance closes should be "counted" as having the emergency covered.

ianwalter• 7 years ago

25% worry about money all the time and 33% can't cover an unexpected $400 expense. Yikes! Seems like the gap between those two should be a lot smaller.

RickJWagner2• 7 years ago

Another recent study (I saw it on HN) said that the majority of people worried about finances spend every discretionary dollar on entertainment.

This is nonsense. Financial education (from a young age) should be mandatory. The number of people in dire financial straights should be miniscule, if everybody acted with good financial sense consistently.

This is wholly a man-made crisis. Participation is completely voluntary.

25% of Americans say they worry about money ‘all the time’

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