New scientific device creates electricity from snowfall

https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/best-in-snow-new-scientific-device-creates-electricity-from-snowfall

by theconstantium • 7 years ago

76 33 7 years ago

newsroom.ucla.edu

IshKebab2• 7 years ago

100% useless but very clever nonetheless.

sctb• 7 years ago

We've asked you several times to please comment more substantively. Would you mind trying a bit harder?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

ScottFree• 7 years ago

tl;dr: Snow is positively charged and gives up electrons. Silicone is negatively charged. When falling snow contacts the surface of silicone, that produces a charge that the device captures, creating electricity.

This appears to be more useful for wearables than as a replacement for solar panels in the winter. I can't imagine the amount of power generated could be that great. It reminds me of one of those stationary bikes hooked up to a toaster.

jerf4• 7 years ago

"This appears to be more useful for wearables than as a replacement for solar panels in the winter."

That's a degree of bullshit so high that it has me seriously questioning what otherwise sounds at least reasonable. Yeah, I know, every science paper has to connect itself to some fashionable area of research that will excite the grant writers, like renewable energy or climate change, but the idea that it would ever be practical to capture that much power from snow is absurd. This is a particularly tenuous connection. The upper bounds on this technique are tiny; any advantage it may have is in its ability to deliver tiny amounts of power to places that would otherwise have none. If snow had any significant amount of energy in it, we'd know, because we'd get shocked when we stood in it.

I think I'm going to settle on feeling bad for the scientists that they've done such interesting work and were forced by the system to spew such heavy bullshit on top of it to keep getting funded.

jrace• 7 years ago

>If snow had any significant amount of energy in it, we'd know, because we'd get shocked when we stood in it.

But....we don't get shocked when we stand out in the sun? And yet solar power is a real thing!

I am sure people scoffed back in the 1800's when scientist first worked with solar power.

saalweachter• 7 years ago

Are there any other planets or moons in the solar system that would be better for this trick?

whatshisface• 7 years ago

Silicone is negatively charged.

It's definitely not negatively charged, it just has a propensity for accumulating negative charge (like in the cloth and rod static electricity experiment).

criddell• 7 years ago

Does this have the potential to be a lightning rod of any kind?

adium• 7 years ago

UCLA is finding ways to handle all the snow they see

maxxxxx• 7 years ago

The amount of power they will be harvesting will probably lead to revolution in measuring miniscule amounts of power :)

fisherwithac2• 7 years ago

Despite my strong skepticism of this technology being used as a replacement or even supplement for solar panels anytime in the near future, I really admire the creative thought process that led them to get even the miniscule results they did.

I'm not a chemist or phyhsicist in any regard, so I can't say whether this could be the stepping stone to something more large scale down the line. Could anyone shed light on whether there are any physical limits given the materials used (slilcone, snow, etc.) to how much energy you could extract?

cogman103• 7 years ago

In the paper, the product produces 0.2 mW/m^2

Solar panels produce 175W/m^2 for comparison.

If this ever produced 1W/m^2 I'd be shocked.

jerf4• 7 years ago

And that's the production during snowfall. Even here in Michigan, the sun shines a great deal more than we literally have snow falling. And if the snow is falling all day, it's going to be a light snow that probably isn't reaching 0.2mW/m^2.

Plus, if I'm seeing the physics here in my head properly based on their description, you can't just stick this out in the snow like a panel and get a consistent 0.2mW/m^2 even under optimal snow conditions. As the snow accumulates on the collector it'll insulate the collector from the rest of the snow. You really want the snow to be brushing the collector and then departing having given up its excess charge, not accumulating on it. Sunlight obviously does not present this problem, since it basically is 100% made out of charge (if you'll pardon the sloppy terminology, asp precision wouldn't really buy anything here), so there's no additional mass to dispose of, just any waste heat issues that may arise.

I'm pretty sure that in real conditions the difference between the two would be another two or three orders of magnitude larger, which is why my other post is so grumpy. It's multiple orders of magnitude obviously not even remotely feasible, to the point it's almost insulting that it was said.

xbmcuser• 7 years ago

Is the power enough to melt the snow to clear the panels of the snow. That could be a good use for it. Solar pan

chabes• 7 years ago

Despite my strong skepticism of this technology being used as a replacement or even supplement for solar panels anytime in the near future

I doubt the point is to replace or supplement solar. The point is probably to have a less bulky or expensive way to run remote sensors

fisherwithac2• 7 years ago

My skepticism comes from this particular line in the article:

The new device could be integrated into solar panels to provide a continuous power supply when it snows, [El-Cady] said.

The abstract of the researh paper itself[0] also reflects this sentiment:

We envision these devices could potentially be integrated into solar panels to ensure continuous power supply during snowy weather conditions.

Granted, it's more of a pipe dream for the future than an original design goal for the technology, which does work well for said remote sensors

[0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221128551... (Link may not be accessable to all, feel free to reply with a mirror)

kemyd• 7 years ago

* A new device - snow-based triboelectric nanogenerator, or snow TENG - creates electricity from falling snow, among other potential uses.

* Richard Kaner (highly influential and cited scientist) and team used 3D printing to design a device that combines silicone with an electrode.

* Thanks to “the ease of fabrication and the availability of silicone” the device, which is essentially a small sheet of plastic, could be produced at low cost.

* It can work in remote areas, doesn’t need batteries, and could be used in solar panels, or self-powered wearables for tracking athletes.

PS. Yesterday posted on https://bullets.tech - I'm looking for people interested in science to help us writing summaries and selecting scientific content

RenRav• 7 years ago

Does it rely on the user moving around to knock off snow that accumulated?

novia2• 7 years ago

A lot of comments here seem to be missing the point. This isn't supposed to add electricity to the grid. It just makes a self sufficient weather station to measure snowfall. Which is cool.

A lot of times you'd want to measure such things away from the grid without having to worry about batteries.

Something I'm curious about is whether similar tech could be used to self sufficiently measure pollen.

Nasrudith• 7 years ago

Yeah the electricity output isn't the point but the fact the power generated is the raw signal. I wonder mostly about the accuracy and precision of such a sensor. Even its "not snow" triggers could be scientifically useful. Imagine if say it was sensitive enough it could identify particulates and tell where heavy metal pollutants land on the tarp.

RosanaAnaDana• 7 years ago

Well I know that lysimeter based snowfall measurement systems can be a real pain for remote stations in winter, so to me this is the exciting bit.

IshKebab2• 7 years ago

Nobody is missing the point because solar panels are a thing. A solar powered calculator probably produces more power than this. Not how they didn't say how much power was produced, because it's probably picowatts.

m4632• 7 years ago

I think the article does't clarify that point, because it says:

"The new device could be integrated into solar panels to provide a continuous power supply when it snows, he said."

novia2• 7 years ago

“The device can work in remote areas because it provides its own power and does not need batteries,” said senior author Richard Kaner

Second paragraph.

The point is, when it snows, often the sun is blocked, or the solar panels might get covered. While it is snowing this device can continue to work without batteries.

Animats• 7 years ago

Cute. Remember the fad for "energy generating sidewalks"? That got far enough that there's a startup.[1] It's useless as a power generator, so they figured out how to market it as a hype generator. "Pavegen creates high engagement with citizens by converting their footsteps into energy, data and rewards." They're on Instagram, etc.

[1] http://www.pavegen.com/

starpilot• 7 years ago

...it still generates energy. It's a small amount for a small application, but it's purposeful energy.

jaytaylor• 7 years ago

How does it work, exactly? Can you just attach a lead to a blob of silicone and begin consuming the energy as soon as snow exposure begins?

carapace• 7 years ago

New scientific device creates electricity from snowfall

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