Things I wish I knew the day I started Berklee

http://sivers.org/berklee

by gnosis • 16 years ago

159 66 16 years ago

sivers.org

nolite• 16 years ago

this is my new hero

lanstein• 16 years ago

this is my old hero

dbrannan• 16 years ago

I really like the martial arts saying he uses:

"When you are not practicing, someone else is. When you meet him, he will win".

I remember years ago when I was on the swim team I had missed two practices. My coach said I had missed 4 practices, and I tried to correct him but he said, "You missed 2 practices, but your competition did not. So now you are 4 practices behind your competition."

I always remembered that.

cma• 16 years ago

Seems like you are still just two practices behind them. Maybe in your coach's original example there was a limited amount of pool time available and your absences added 2 practices worth of pool time to the aggregate excluding you.

rimantas• 16 years ago

In this case you need to practice not only to improve but merely to stay at the same level.

Psyonic3• 16 years ago

I want to believe that's insightful but I can't seem to interpret it any way other than a math fail. I could potentially have 10 practices, miss 2. Opponent has 10, misses 0. Opponent 10 - Me 8 = 2 missed practices... If the competition did miss the practices, it'd be a wash, so we'd all have essentially missed 0.

What am I missing here?

chrisa• 16 years ago

I think this is the rationale: In sports (or anything that requires practice), going some time without practicing actually makes you lose some of the ability you once had. So in this case, it would take two practices just to get back what was lost during the break, at which point he would be 4 practices behind.

hasenj2• 16 years ago

You're taking it too literally.

Each time you miss your training, you lose twice. One for being behind your schedule, and another for being behind your opponent.

In other words, not only are you behind on your schedule, but your opponent is ahead of you.

This changes your perspective.

hboon• 16 years ago

This sounds like it should only apply to something like basketball rebounds - if you miss 1 rebound, your opponent gets it, and thus you have the case where missing 2 rebounds is a -4.

RickHull2• 16 years ago

This is a flawed analysis. It sounds like the "14 point turnaround" in football -- wherein the offensive team is about to score a touchdown, but instead turns the ball over to the defense who runs the ball back for a touchdown of their own -- but it is not analogous.

Your missing practice is merely failing to score a touchdown. It does not result in any extra touchdowns or practices for the competition. You really are only 2 practices behind.

pyre• 16 years ago

See: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1892069

mcmc• 16 years ago

No, between you and your opponent, practices are not actually zero-sum.

elomar• 16 years ago

I posted this saying on Facebook and a friend rewrote it:

“When you are not enjoying your life, someone else is. When you meet him, you will probably regret.”

Sounds like a nice way to live too.

angrycoder• 16 years ago

There is a banner hanging up in the studio I train at: "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."

robertk• 16 years ago

I have also thought this way when reprimanding myself for staying up late. If I go to sleep at 2 instead of midnight, I lose 4 hours of sleep--the two that I missed, and the extra two hours of being awake.

freyfogle• 16 years ago

Quantity is not quality.

thesz• 16 years ago

I do not like that particular quote. I can offer you mine: "when you are not resting, someone else is. when you meet him, he will win."

Bruce Lee changed his "be as ready to fight as possible every day" attitude which didn't allowed him to be the best - he had to train less intensely than possible. So he introduced two one day rests and one two days rest into his training regimen.

Sayings like that (quoted by article author and one from your trainer) are manipulative and provoke sense of guilt without any good reason.

sp4rki3• 16 years ago

how much does the world pay people to play video games?

Actually if you're good enough, plenty of money. It's not a matter of how many people do it, it's a matter of how much better you are than the many people that do it are. Amateur programmers shouldn't be making software for Bank of America, the same way an amateur musician shouldn't be playing for Dream Theater. The interesting thing is that one generally doesn't notice when you cross the line that makes you a professional, which is generally delimited by profitability.

If you can make money with your abilities it's because there are a bunch of people that can't, but never make the mistake of thinking that because a lot of people do something it means you can't make money off it. Oh and of course, the person with such abilities that doesn't take advantage of them to make money doesn't deserve them (with the exception of the multitalented who leverages a 'better' skill or the person leveraging those skills in a risk filled endeavor for larger profits).

ido2• 16 years ago

    Oh and of course, the person with such abilities 
    that doesn't take advantage of them to make money
    doesn't deserve them (with the exception of the 
    multitalented who leverages a 'better' skill or 
    the person leveraging those skills in a risk 
    filled endeavor for larger profits).

I think I understand what you meant, but I can't completely agree with what you said - sometimes there are indeed worthy uses of skill for a purpose other than making money.

sp4rki3• 16 years ago

Re-reading the comment I see that I made a mess out of my thoughts. If you're a business man that knows music hell more power to you right? I meant the cases where you have people doing amazing things programming, or composing music, or whatever, but not making any money and having to work in a call center or a grocery store packing bags. I've seen many people I know make such retarded choices it's not even funny. Reminds me of Good Will Hunting. It would have been a complete waste to give the guy such a mind so he can go work at a construction site right?

Zev2• 16 years ago

Stay offline. Shut off your computer. Stay in the shed.

I bookmarked this and stopped reading after that. Nice reminder to get back to coding for me.

baddox2• 16 years ago

But not before zipping back to HN to submit that comment. ;)

GrayRoark• 16 years ago

And when did you made this comment?

Zev2• 16 years ago

While in the middle of closing down distracting windows and tabs in Safari. Sadly, need to keep at least one window open for Pivotal Tracker.

RK• 16 years ago

I attended music school for a short time after college (not Berklee). After having done a very tough BS in physics, I found the slow pace of the music theory classes pretty frustrating. I worked ahead, but not at the pace I probably could have. I very much agree with his point about not letting others (i.e. courses) set the pace.

Also, having another degree I think I had a different perspective than many of the high school graduates that where there with the idea of becoming a rock star or whatever. Most of the instructors, etc, made their livings by teaching, playing random gigs, doing essentially anonymous studio work, and odd jobs. Music is a very hard business. This reality seemed mostly lost on the majority of the students. I decided that I was probably happier to have a "real" job and play music on the side.

antareus• 16 years ago

I'm considering the same jump (real job -> music school for a bit). Where did you go? What'd you make of it? Did you switch out? The first sentence suggests that you did. I'm perfectly happy to play local venues for the rest of my life.

tomjen3• 16 years ago

>When you emerge in a few years, you can ask someone what you missed, and you'll find it can be summed up in a few minutes.

>The rest was noise you'll be proud you avoided.

Yes -- almost, but you will properly feel that there are one or two things that you didn't experience that you will miss not being a part of.

dreaming• 16 years ago

Exactly. Important not to overlook the benefits of meeting like minded people who can help inspire you, or just keep you sane.

thefool• 16 years ago

The don't get stuck in the past bit is a fine line you have to walk.

Its dumb to spend your whole creative life simply reproducing ideas that seemed obvious decades ago. You can get a lot better if you know what other people did, and then consciously build on it.

zzzeek• 16 years ago

He is right you need to shed a whole lot more than you might be motivated for.

But also, success in the field of music requires a level of social assertiveness and competence that is way beyond what it is in technology. Nobody cares about your cool grooves or whatever, you have to fight to stay on board. But oh you can build my ecommerce site for me ?

I got out of Berklee in '92 and basically dicked around trying to get non-shitty gigs for a few years, not going to enough jams and auditions, until an ocean of interest and money came at me to do anything related to computers, after I had sworn them off to be a musician. I was interested in eating and not living in a box. The market decided for me on that one - scratch and claw your way to get some real music gigs, or step into this plush world of "wow you can program ?". Wish I could play again.

zackattack• 16 years ago

his tales about kimo make me wonder why they don't hire kimo to come in and restructure their courses.

hasenj2• 16 years ago

I like the "be valuable" advice. It's what all college students should keep in mind.

The point of education is not to get a "certificate" that proves to your future employers that you went through the motions of education.

The point is to make yourself valuable.

I'm surprised how many people are oblivious to this.

So many people view education as nothing more than "something boring you have to do so that you get a decent job". Where a decent job is "something boring that you to do to make a decent living".

There's a contradiction there somewhere: if everything you do is boring, how "decent" is your living? really.

What's their idea of a decent living? "Getting paid enough to pay the bills and send the kids to school and make them not have to worry about doing any work". In other words, a decent living is the ability to make your children's life just as boring as yours is.

None of this brings any happiness.

mechanical_fish2• 16 years ago

I'm surprised how many people are oblivious to this.

There is little in one's formal educational experience to prepare one for the concept that one can do work that has real value. So much of what you work on is an exercise, a problem that has already been solved that you must solve again for a grade or a prize, after which your work will be thrown away.

gridspy• 16 years ago

It is unfortunate how much programming is replicated by hundreds of businesses, not shared and then thrown away 3-10 years later.

Thank god for open source and the corresponding increase in code sharing.

alexophile• 16 years ago

On point #2 he references his training under Kimo Williams, which he wrote about at length last year:

http://sivers.org/kimo

sgoranson2• 16 years ago

Disagree strongly with #6. It's too easy to find counterexamples of brilliant artists who've created immeasurable value and died penniless. Market value != intrinsic value.

ScottWhigham• 16 years ago

This is fairly fascinating to me - I'm a musician as well and love this stuff. What would have happened if John Coltrane, for example, had done what Miles Davis did and focused on the business side more?

I wonder, though, if perhaps you are nit-picking on a pithy title? "Be valuable" doesn't have to mean "learn business at the expense of creating value in your music", does it?

sgoranson2• 16 years ago

I think he was pretty clear with "Making sure you're making money is just a way of making sure you're doing something of value to others."

Maybe it's like this: getting paid implies your work has value, but your work may value even if you are not getting paid?

T_S_• 16 years ago

I think he is just trying to break the perceived reverse connection between artistic value and economic value for his impressionable audience who presumably strive for artistic value first.

The girls selected by the pretty sorority will likely be dumber than average but that's not because they are pretty, it's because of the selection criteria.

An attribute used in a selection requirement is easily misidentified as a causal factor. Pretty does not have to cause dumb. Popularity in and of itself does not have to cause bad music. Neither does starvation cause great art.

I must temper this conclusion with a joke: "I used to like the Chilean Miners when they were underground. Now they're too mainstream."

tibbon• 16 years ago

Seeing my alama matter on the top of HN was unexpected. Sounds like someone learned a great deal of life at Berklee- unfortunately many don't.

narag• 16 years ago

Excuse the nit picking, I hope you'll like to know: alma mater is Latin for "feeding mother".

osuburger• 16 years ago

While I can respect what the author is saying, I don't think everyone should follow this advice. While I've definitely had my fair share of time spent in the "shed", working on projects for both school and my own side ideas, I don't think a true college experience can be had by being like this all the time. There is nothing wrong with occasionally being distracted by your peers; I've had lots of great nights going out for a couple drinks on a Wednesday night just because I can. In the end, it all has to be about balance in my opinion. Definitely go (far) above the bare minimum, but I know I could never stay sane without the occasional break or fun night out.

deutronium• 16 years ago

Really loved that post.

Especially the quote "The casual ones end up having casual talent and merely casual lives."

Gianteye• 16 years ago

I'm not sure about that. There are plenty of boring jobs to be had, and quite a few of them are to be had at Google. I suppose banality and life satisfaction aren't mutually exclusive, but it's the case for me. Doing computational database analysis whether at Facebook or at the local grocery store for me is a bitter kind of hell.

I think I agree with the point, but would refine it. Both talented and talentless people have the option of living boring lives. The more talent you have, and the more willing you are to focus and direct it, the more leverage you have to launch yourself into a fascinating and entertaining lifestyle.

LiveTheDream• 16 years ago

"Do not expect the teachers to teach you."

I am all about teaching yourself and internal thirst for knowledge, but this is a bit depressing.

sayemm• 16 years ago

I freaking love this, thanks for posting it

A ton of great lines in there, as Derek Sivers is an amazing writer jam-packed w/ wisdom much like PG, but this is my most fav one out of the pack:

"But the casual ones end up having casual talent and merely casual lives."

baddox2• 16 years ago

> Berklee is like a library. Everything you need to know is here for the taking. It's the best possible environment for you to master your music. But nobody will teach you anything. You have to teach yourself.

Sounds exactly like a library, except (I presume) extremely expensive. I only went to college because I assumed (correctly) that at least a few great minds would be there. What's the upside to Berklee?

coliveira• 16 years ago

the same: "few great minds would be there"

jeberle2• 16 years ago

Certainly one of these things should have been that the school was founded by Lee Berk, who thought the name "Berklee" was good in light of UC Berkeley!

jeberle2• 16 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berklee_College_of_Music#Histor...

rb2k_• 16 years ago

> In just 3 intensive lessons, he taught me 3 semesters of Berklee harmony, so on opening day I started in Harmony 4.

> In one intensive lesson, he taught me the whole semester of Arranging 1

I don't know if that actually says something about Berklee or about Music...

unwind• 16 years ago

I had huge trouble understanding this, before Googling "Berklee" and realizing it's short for "Berklee College of Music".

That lead me to think that the author didn't in fact start Berklee, he started at it. That is not communicated in the title, and also the post itself contains sentences like this:

Luckily, when I was 17, a few months before starting Berklee, I met a man named Kimo Williams who used to teach at Berklee and convinced me that the standard pace is for chumps.

So; can we please have an "at" in the HN title, at least? :)

Things I wish I knew the day I started Berklee

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