Ask HN: 19, developer, burnt out, advice please

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1865673

by throwaway8475 • 16 years ago

41 69 16 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

My highschool career could be summed up by one word - mediocre. I didn't do horrible, but I did minimal, except for being in the robotics club. I graduated with the minimal credits because I wanted to finish in 3 years. At the time the classroom environment felt toxic. I was 17 and landed a salaried position doing web development with a very cool company. Fast forward and I'm almost 20, don't really know if I feel a passion for software - or at least professionally. I realized I only enjoy software if I'm building what I want to build or something that interests me. I'm wondering what HN would do in my shoes, should I just go to college, or is there a better option? I'm willing to put the work into school but I wonder if the cost is worth it. Please consider I would have to start at a community college of sorts because of my academic history. Anyways, please share thoughts and suggestions, thanks.

edit: spelling

maxdemarzi• 16 years ago

1. Go to community college, to spend as little as possible on the college degree.

2. Your education is your own to manage, don't expect anything out of class, just do the work, pass and get the piece of paper.

3. Find a few friends and make stuff now, while you have no 9-5 job/wife/kids/401k/etc. to worry about.

petervandijck• 16 years ago

Take a year of. Travel the world. For real.

c4urself• 16 years ago

I can't agree more with this! Right now you don't see a lot of options in front of you due to burnout etc. Despite this, force yourself into the unknown and discover new things, it sounds cliche but it'll change your perspective.

locopati• 16 years ago

Since you have tech skills, earn some money on short-term contract and take off for 6-12mo travelling. Can get around Europe or Asia for much cheaper than you might think (biggest expense is getting there and even then you can find good deals on tickets). You'll meet a lot of people, expand your horizons, and have clear head-space to think about what excites you and how you want to live your life.

wccrawford• 16 years ago

My suggestion is to go get a job that sucks. After a couple years of doing a job that's utter crap, you'll realize that doing fun things that other people want done isn't really that bad after all. You'll gain a new appreciation for the work.

Alternatively, try to do contract work. You'll either find that it suits you well (you get to pick what jobs you do) or that you absolutely hate not having someone between you and the client or that you need the structured environment not-being-your-own-boss brings.

madhouse• 16 years ago

Or better yet, combine the two suggestions before me: take a year off while you can travel cheap, go to college, find friends, and let your creativity bloom during that time.

That few years also buys you enough time to figure out if there's something else that would keep you occupied and happy than web development.

AngeloAnolin• 16 years ago

1. Rediscover your passion.

2. Get away from work and analyze what it is you really want. Then pursue it.

3. Have some time with your relatives, friends, and loved ones.

4. Re-learn the value of being able to enjoy little and solitary moments for yourself.

5. Do some charity / volunteer work.

garrettgillas2• 16 years ago

I agree with #5 highly. I've found that doing charity/service work to be a great way to regain focus on who I want to be when I start slipping towards self-absorption. Genuinely helping other people out basically keeps you from becoming a douche bag.

icco• 16 years ago

I'd go to college and get a degree. I was kind of burnt out at the end of high school, so I did two things, the first was go work in the mountains for a summer and then went to college. Four years later I'm kind of burnt out on the whole college thing, but I've made a ton of friends, learned a lot, and gained a lot of interests outside of computers, which have actually fueled my love for computer science.

jkaljundi• 16 years ago

If you want to build software that interests you, do become a startup entrepreneur. Your product, your decisions, doing what you enjoy.

Why go to school, if you are not sure what your passion is? Only do that if you are 110% sure that's what you want to do the rest of your life.

Take some time off. Do sports, have fun, talk to friends and other people more. Discuss actively the things you like and don't like.

Enjoy whatever you do. Forget about things you don't like, or even worse. you hate.

citricsquid• 16 years ago

The networking aspect of school might help him, although I guess now with the internet and all these accessible events he might be fine without it :)

BCM43• 16 years ago

> Why go to school, if you are not sure what your passion is? Only do that if you are 110% sure that's what you want to do the rest of your life.

What? This is one of the main things I think that he would get out of college. It expands your interests and lets you experience things you would not otherwise.

grobolom• 16 years ago

Definitely go to college. As much as it seems like that stupid piece of paper they call a degree is worthless and doesn't teach you anything, it shows more than that; it shows that you have the dedication to follow through with something difficult (difficult aka. boring as hell in the case of community college) and that you have some basic skills.

It's awesome that you already have a ton of experience under your belt, but no matter where you go, missing that degree is usually a red flag. Even if you end up as an entrepreneur, it will get you away from a lot of awkward questions. Not only that, but in taking some basic courses you might find that you have some other passions that were hidden before. Not to mention the hundreds of people you'll meet and make connections with.

Also remember that you might not have to go to a community college. Go to some prospective schools, talk to their admissions officers and teachers. Your three years in software development do mean something, and theres a chance you could get in to a school that would actually teach you a lot.

dinedal• 16 years ago

Also, if you get stuck in a community college make your first year or two mostly gen-eds, and transfer to a better school after proving yourself. Most bigger university's run the community colleges anyway and will let you transfer between the two easily, so pick your community college based on what it can provide to you in transfers.

jraines2• 16 years ago

An option:

It's almost winter. Ski resorts are hiring. You can meet awesome people in a very low pressure work environment (hey -- a non-college ready made social scene that doesn't cost 40K a year) and have access to head-clearing, soul uplifting physical activity that beats the hell out of jogging. And you'll still have the time and energy to code if you want. And if you want it to be not just a distraction, well, it's a big time industry with connections to other big time industries, and it's really easy to meet and talk with the higher ups at the resort about how your talents might find a place in that world that's not just shovelling snow or selling tickets.

Caveat: I also upvoted the "go to college" comment.

tjarratt• 16 years ago

Upvoting this idea. I've spent quite a few weeks up in cabins producing code that I had a hard time concentrating on elsewhere. Easy access to lots of people with interesting stories (who are generally willing to listen to what you have to say) and opportunities to clear your mind with some intense exercise makes ski resorts a clear winner in my book.

Now that I think about it, quite a few of the good developers and engineers I know are either ski bums, or worked in a ski resort when they got out of secondary school / university.

throwaway8475• 16 years ago

This sounds like an interesting plan. I'm in the south east U.S, any suggestions on where to apply? What state would be the best? I've got $1k laying around, for a single dude I can make that stretch.

notahacker• 16 years ago

It's summer all year round in South-East Asia. It takes surprisingly little money to travel around that part of the world (most of the cost is getting there). It's stunningly varied, beautiful, and full of other people your age doing exactly the same thing. You can experience high culture, close-to-nature solitude and mindless hedonism at beach parties.

You'll also get to meet people from the other side of the world living often much simpler lifestyles, some of which might seem amazing and some which seem horrendous - you'll realise both how challenging and lucrative the work you've been doing is and how little that matters.

Caveat: I also upvoted the "go get a job that sucks comment",

Sindrome• 16 years ago

I think you definitely need to change things up. Try taking up a new platform on the side. Take a new job. Go to school and work part-time.

You don't have any kids, mortgage, etc... so the world is pretty much yours to conquer if you really wanted to. You can try whatever you like to find your passion. What's the worst that could happen. You run up a few thousand dollars of debt at age 21. Most of your peers will be around 30k in debt once they finish college.

SabrinaDent2• 16 years ago

I realized I only enjoy software if I'm building what I want to build or something that interests me.

You know what? It's called work because it isn't fun. Most people do a day job to pay the bills. It's part of being a grown-up and it comes with commitments and responsibilities that yeah, sort of suck a lot of the time. Even if you're lucky enough to do something you love for a living (and I am) it isn't passionate enthusiasm all of the time.

If you can contract on the side with projects you're passionate about or build your own projects, that's how a lot of people stay engaged with the work. If you don't want to be a software developer at all, though, college seems like a good option only if you're going back to find a new area you're genuinely enthusiastic about.

xentronium2• 16 years ago

Know what? I guess, you're wrong. If you (abstract you, not the you I am replying to) are doing things that you don't like, you're pitiful, at the very least. I strongly believe that life is too short to waste it on things you aren't "genuinely enthusiastic about".

My 2c.

elblanco3• 16 years ago

Man you must really enjoy paying bills and filling out paperwork and other wonderful, fun, life affirming activities (haggling over a car, getting sick, stuck in traffic, selling stuff). 'cause you can't get through life without that.

rogerclark• 16 years ago

I think his point was more that you can't expect anyone to be genuinely enthusiastic and passionate 100% of the time, even if they're doing something they love. There are times when part of the work sucks even if you're working toward something awesome. Sometimes the periods of suck can last much longer than you'd like.

I love my job, and I'm quite enthusiastic about it most of the time. But on some days I just don't feel good, and sometimes things like meetings can get annoying. Just because I don't enjoy it 100% of the time, all day every day doesn't mean I'm pitiful or that I'm wasting my life.

SabrinaDent2• 16 years ago

I think that's idealisitic. I design websites for startups and small businesses, pretty much all of whom are broke. I also spend a lot of time helping them with their online marketing because very few 3rd parties can provide those services inside the kinds of budget my clients are working with.

Do I like doing PPC campaigns? No, I sort of hate it but I do it because the clients I love need it and there isn't anyone else to do it. I wish more of them would get better at doing their own newsletters well, too, but I also want a pony and that isn't happening either, so I do monthly emailings for the clients who need them because I want them to do it right.

Am I passionate about PPC and newsletters? Hell no. But I am passionate about these people and these companies so I do it cheerfully because it's part of my job to do the tedious and annoying stuff that supports all the other work I love to do. I don't think that's pitiful; in fact I am pretty sure that's exactly the way it's supposed to work.

momotomo• 16 years ago

I think there's too much romance in people's expectations of what real work looks like. It's genuinely great to pursue your passion, but it always has a cost. The "if it's not your passion, you're wasting your life" thing aggravates me to the point of distraction.

A lot of talented people are perpetually stuck because once the novelty wears off on something, they get antsy and move onto something else. It's nothing to do with their skill level, just the phobia of doing a long, long grind to get to a goal.

I'm a painter, and I've developed before, it all looks the same to me - once you have a brilliant idea and get over the fun bit, you need to work on the other 80% of it until it's done. Once an idea settles in your head and stops being exciting, the real work begins; after that point it takes actual sacrifice and dedication that isn't being fueled by anything other than your own decisions and time management.

retube• 16 years ago

burnt out at 19? You're gonna be a crisp by the time you're 30. Sorry not be more constructive, but I only have limited resources.

garrettgillas2• 16 years ago

What you said pretty accurately described my high school experience. I'm 28 now. After HS I bummed around 2 different colleges over 6 semesters and 4 different majors. I never liked what I was learning very much so eventually I just left because I had a full-time job as a sysadmin that had been doing while attending school.

Since then I've been doing web development at a couple different smaller agencies. Usually either the job is great and the pay sucks or vice versa. That's my experience at least. It sounds pretty ungrateful now that I'm saying it.

Anyway, a couple of moths ago the owners of my company said that they were going to move to out of state and that all (5) of us were going to work from home. At first I resisted, but then I realized that this could be an opportunity. Despite the monotony of working at home, I have been a lot more free to work on my side projects and the MVP for my startup eyeclash is launching this month. I can honestly say that I've never felt better about the work that I am doing.

So I guess my point is, don't expect the way you feel to change with the scenery. College really didn't help me much with my personal aspirations and neither did most of the jobs I've had. Working on my own stuff and collaborating with others on "side projects" (aka possible startups) is really the only thing that has been able to bring me the satisfaction that it sounds like you are looking for.

harscoat• 16 years ago

the only thing I wished I had known at your age is the "10 000 hours rule". It is hard to find one's calling... but sometimes the "calling" is retrospectively the place where you have put in the most hours.

Also what wccrawford describes worked for me (I just needed couple of month at a crappy job, to be so happy/thankful to go to college).

kreedskulls• 16 years ago

Sounds like to me you need to understand your environment and take advantage of the opportunity. If you work for a very cool web development company then learn everything you can while building your own thing on the side.

fleitz• 16 years ago

Suck it up and do something. The best things in life are neither easy, nor fun. In hindsight they will seem fun, and you will get great joy from accomplishing them. However, when you are in the shit it will not seem fun.

You think college is just doing what you want? If you can suck it up for college suck it up for a business. You're getting paid to learn. Start taking charge at work, and start it by taking on the responsibilities no one else wants.

Leverage your youth and things you've already accomplished into a compelling story. Start going to industry events and network.

Use the fact that you have a decent job already to spend less hours working and more hours networking. Find the opportunities you want and grab them by the horns.

In life you eat what you kill. Learn to enjoy the hunt.

alnayyir• 16 years ago

I had the same experience, I went straight from a mediocre HS career to development, and I did reach a point where I was burnt out (partially because of a horrible gig, but we'll ignore that)

Just...do something else. More than likely, you'll come back to it later. (If you don't, that's cool too, but I honestly enjoy programming for its own sake.) The ski resort idea is solid, personally what I ended up doing was starting my own business, failing, doing contract work here and there while getting an education in comp sci and philosophy.

Going to college isn't a horrible idea if you don't know what you want to do, but I think that's something you could do after doing some working/travelling for a bit. (Caveat: I still haven't gone to formal school)

lmkg• 16 years ago

Explore life, and find out what it is you want to do. Maybe you want to start your own company. Maybe you're ok working a nine-to-five if it's an exciting project, or if affects people, or it's a small and driven environment. Maybe what you really want to do isn't even programming, but something like writing or architecture or graphic design. Just because you're got at software, that doesn't mean it's what you want to do, and it doesn't mean that it's what it should do.

There are two good ways to do this. One is going to college full-time, and taking random-ass courses that you think might be interesting. Don't go for the degree, don't focus on CS courses only. Go for the experience, put effort into things that aren't required that you think may benefit you, and especially talk to people. The second way is to get a boring nine-to-five job that puts food on the table and gives you enough spare time to get a hobby or a side project. Then just do whatever suits your fancy, until you find something that suits your fancy and you want to be more serious about. Getting a crappier job is actually better, as it will be easier psychologically to drop it and follow your dream when you find it.

The third, less desirable, option is to be a bum. This is much like getting a crappy job and exploring on the side, except without the job, and subsequently without the food that it puts on the table. This requires either awesome friends or a savings account. Be warned, it's habit-forming. I would recommend the other 2 options because they'll teach you self-discipline, which is important.

lsc• 16 years ago

Eh, I also had a very mediocre high-school career, and didn't go to college.

now, uh, as for burnout, at 19, it's probably social. Are you dating? do you want to be? Put some effort into that arena. Maybe cut back a little on your work effort, but my advice is to keep your job. (I mean, by all means, switch jobs within your career focus if you see an opportunity... I'm just saying, don't leave the field.)

When I was a little bit older than you I also felt burnt out. I quit, saying I wasn't going to work in IT ever again. And I then failed to get all manner of menial jobs. It was a miserable experience. I got another IT job within a month or two, but it was a significantly worse job (in terms of experience learned; it actually paid about the same... but I went from being the small fish around some really great people to being the 'big fish') that I think probably set my career back many years.

As for dating, uh, I can't give you specific advice, other than to say it's like any other problem, if you put effort into it, you will make progress.

for social stuff in general, moving to silicon valley can give you a fresh perspective. Nerds are concentrated here, and they have a higher social standing in the valley than anywhere else I've lived. This can, to a large extent, solve the problem of feeling like a supernerd that nobody likes or understands, because it's very easy here to put yourself in a group where you are the least nerdy person in the room.

elblanco3• 16 years ago

Steps to happiness

1) Go to college (yet another monthly "should I go to college?" posts on HN sigh). I didn't go until my 20's either, and I've yet to regret going. I certainly regret going that late. The reasons to do it are numerous, but there's one important one that matters above all else, it's an investment that will pay for itself very quickly if you do it right, and will continue to make you money long long after you've finished.

2) Learn to work on stuff you don't want to work on. I know I'll sound old and crotchety, but that's what distinguishes adults from kids, adults spend most of their time doing crap nobody wants to do because it just simply has to get done. It take extraordinary discipline to do this, and you have to work hard at building that kind of discipline. It doesn't mean you spend your life in a joyless and soulless pursuit of meaningless trivia, it means you understand you have to do shit work sometimes in order to get to play on stuff you want.

3) Learn to pace yourself. You aren't burned out yet, trust me. Do what you are doing now, with twice the number of hours, plus a full course load, a mortgage, a couple car payments and a family, and you'll learn what burnout is within 4-5 years. But you should learn the skill, how to pace yourself, because it really is amazing how much stuff people can juggle if you learn to do it the right way. If you run around pumped to max with your brain on fire for everything, you will burn out in a few years.

jasonshen• 16 years ago

Not sure if school is worth the cost right now... but maybe try doing something outside of software development. Have you considered something in the social sector / volunteer work? One of the best ways to get more excited about life is feeling like you're really helping others and making a difference people's lives, especially people less fortunate than yourself.

David• 16 years ago

For reference, I'm 19 and a freshman in college.

From my perspective, college has a lot to offer. Research, the chance to meet important people in the field, the chance to meet interesting people out of the field. These influenced my decision to be here (though I hadn't actually considered the possibility that college wasn't a requirement).

If you know your interests, I think going to college (for a degree) is a great way to go, because you can learn cool stuff full-time and meet people like you. Clearly you thought you did know -- but it turns out that working as a webdev wasn't the answer.

Given that, you probably need to talk to people who aren't the people you identify with. My vote is to take some time to find your interests, by traveling or being a bum on the streets of New York. Talk to everyone you meet about their interests. (Make a point, of course, to meet anyone and everyone you possibly can.) Hopefully you'll find that someone will infect you with their own passion.

If none of those float your boat, then get a part time job (one that you won't tie to your identity -- it's hard to get burnt out from being a waiter, even if it sucks to do) and make enough to pay your living expenses while you take classes in any subject you can think of at a community college. (Not for a degree, but to see if anything catches your interest.)

Whatever path you need to take, find _something_ that interests you. And then do it.

If it turns out later that web development (but only cool projects) is really what you want to do, then do it. If you still can't do it as a salaried position, other HNers have recommended going freelance. I'd say either that or keep your non-identity day job while you build shit on the side -- just make sure that one of your projects is making you enough money to put something away, because you won't be able to live forever on next to nothing.

edw519• 16 years ago

Go to college.

  Take science to discover something you're good at.
  Take humanities to discover something you may love.
  Take at least one art or music class.
  Take at least one advanced math class.
  Join a fraternity.
  Learn how to play bridge (and play all night sometime).
  Learn how to play foosball.
  Get drunk.
  Learn how to play foosball while drunk.
  Get laid.
  Play an intramural team sport.
  Get a part time job.
  Eat something you never tried before at least once/month.
  Get high.
  Do original research.
  Take a class you think you'll hate pass/fail.
  Do 5 minutes at a comedy club on open mike night.
  Hang out with a professor you like.
  Get laid.
  Do a web start-up on the side.
  Make a few friends for life.
  Go to at least one party each week.
  Pick a major you love whether it makes career sense or not.
  Get someone who has written one of your text books to sign it.
  Blog about your college experience.
  Get laid.
  Go to Europe with nothing but a backpack for a month or two.
  Enter a college talent show.
  Meet as many interesting (and boring) people as you can.
  Read good books.
  Go without shoes for a week just for the hell of it.
  Get laid.
  Graduate.

If you don't go to college, exactly when do you expect to do all of this?

gxs• 16 years ago

It was very satisfying seeing your post on HN. Too often, it seems, the bigger picture of the college experience is lost on HN.

Heed edw's advice. Go to college. College is as much about the education you get in the classroom as it is about the education you get outside of it.

maukdaddy2• 16 years ago

All. Of. This. (maybe not the high part)

You're actually in an interesting spot, because a year or two of community college, while not exactly like a 4-year school, will help you determine whether or not you really want to put forth the effort to complete a degree. It will also be cheaper than a 4-year if you decide not to stick with it.

ZeroMinx• 16 years ago

Especially the high part!

This is the only time in life it's (borderline) socially acceptable to try those things. FFS, enjoy it while you can. You'll have plenty of time in front of a computer later.

ichverstehe• 16 years ago

I've done most of that in one form or another, with nothing but an unfinished high school education. Still am. Every time one of these threads comes along, I get the impression that Americans don't get to have a social/independent life until college. Is it really that way? I'm honestly curious.

(I'm 21 and in Denmark, fwiw.)

RDDavies• 16 years ago

I think a lot of it is that here in America, we aren't exposed to many other intelligent thinkers, or many folks interested in much other than their homecoming date, or barely passing the SATs until we get to college. If I'd met just ONE person as inspiring as high school as the tens of them I did in college, I'd have had a significant head start.

nickpinkston• 16 years ago

I tend to think that intellectualism in America is the label on a box called college, this box is then traded to companies, without being opened, in exchange for the ability to buy a house, fill it with crap, and park a nice car out front...

I think you're right actually. I actually had a lot of European friends in college because they were far less superficial than most American students.

I think we're coming to a time in the US, and the perhaps the world, where smart / creative people can find each other and find their passions without needing much school. The industrial revolution brought us this system, but now we need something further evolved. I think FabLabs, the Khan Academy, Open Courseware, etc. are all part of this new genus of educational species.

IHaveASolution• 16 years ago

I went to college at 13 (I've graduated now, obviously), and essentially had to answer this question over and over. I went to college, without the getting drunk, without the frat (I did get to do original research, though), and without the getting laid (for the most part). I did it because I loved learning. I still do, but colleges are essentially bureaucratic hucksterism. So a lot people think I missed out -- on high school, college, everything. And I explain, I lead a pretty active life, and I got some awesome chances to do cool things. Now I can spend these years really _focusing_ on doing irresponsible and stupid things.

Why is everyone such a punk about not being able to do cool things if you aren't enrolled in a degree-seeking program?

(Also, I'm American, so all I can do is confirm people have exactly the same social dysfunction you think they do.)

Deejahll2• 16 years ago

And if you are, like I was, repulsed by the constant insistence from everyone that you should go to college so you can toke, drink, party, and fuck: take heart, you can get a lot out of college without ever associating with meatheads and frat houses. The idiot carnival is not as prevalent as popular culture would have you believe; you can invest yourself into a hugely rewarding intellectual field, have excellent roommates that don't make you shove strange objects up your ass, and never even learn the name of your school's sports team, if that's more your style.

mathgladiator• 16 years ago

You can do all of these any time you like if you can afford it.

mohsen• 16 years ago

wish you were my college advisor...

trizk• 16 years ago

"I realized I only enjoy software if I'm building what I want to build"

You sound like an entrepreneur to me. Find something you want to build, and build it. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

michaelhart• 16 years ago

Start a company, something you feel passionate about.

Another important thing: Have a balanced life. Focusing too much on one thing works great for a while, but it never lasts. You always need time to wrap your head around other problems or, better yet, nothing at all (entertainment). It's like listening to the same song over and over again -- it sounds terrible eventually.

Deejahll2• 16 years ago

I was in exactly your position. Mediocre high school, a few years of a programming job. In my case, I chose a community college followed by a state school followed by a new job.

The choice to go to school is debatable, depends on your money situation. Out of the five years it took me to get my Computer Science bachelor's, I had only about ten really worthwhile classes. The rest just seemed like going through the motions. I think it would have been different if I had picked a different major.

On the other hand, I met my wife and made some of my best friendships at school.

When I think back I consider what I might rather have done instead: build a start-up company, or travel. But both of those would require money that I didn't have, so school (for which I could get loans) was the best choice for me at the time.

If you go:

Community college wasn't the cutting edge of academics, but it was cheap and helped me make the transition. (Read: I had trouble with motivation and getting to class on time, and those mistakes are easier to deal with at a cheap community college.) Get your GPA up and then you'll have your pick of good-quality state schools. High enough and you won't have to pay for them.

I don't regret choosing a state school after that. I'm happy I didn't rack up more student loan debt.

Don't overload yourself with credits. I regret doing so. Take a moderate load and do something interesting with your extra time. (Like your personal programming projects and experiments. Or do research as an undergrad.)

Don't major in computer science. I regret doing so. Major in something "cool," a natural science like Physics or Astronomy, or something you can really sink your brain into like Mathematics or Philosophy, or something that's not easy to pick up as a spare time hobby like electrical engineering. Or any other "real" subject that interests you. Take interesting computer science classes as electives. Minor or double-major in it if you want. You can teach yourself the same amount from a book, and your future employers won't care what your major is in, if you can demonstrate that you know what you're doing. Plus, having some science under your belt can lead to an awesome career of discovery, instead of being a cubicle monkey re-writing back-end software for a greedy bank or telecom company. (Burnout all over again.)

If you're anything like me, and this is my number one regret about school: go to the fucking gym at least three times a week. Doesn't matter if you look great or not: It's free and it's good for your brain. I stopped going to the gym in school citing "lack of time" and slipped into an unmotivated depression that almost ruined my school, my marriage, my basically everything. Do whatever it takes to stay active. I wish I could go back in time with a baseball bat and knock some sense into myself.

After school, if you took out loans to go, you're a slave until you pay them off. If you do the above without failing, you'll get a decent job. I recommend making the minimum payments, live frugally until you build up a savings account. It might be cheaper in the long run to pay the loans off as quickly as possible, but then you don't have the ability to quit a job if you burn out again, and coast or travel the world for a bit.

seunosewa• 16 years ago

Go ahead and find something useful that interests you, then just do it.

bitwize• 16 years ago

I dunno. Bartend? Sign up for one of those teach-English-in-Japan things?

Get away from the fucking computer for a while. In your off hours you'll come screaming back to it with an itch to code.

charlesdm• 16 years ago

I turned 20 a couple of months ago and have been working full time for around a year and a half. Now, recently, I started doing contract work and I'm going to travel a bit over the next year. If you do contract work, you can charge a higher rate and thus work less as well -- at least for a while. :)

Also, I'd say go to college if you want to, but don't feel pressured.

variety• 16 years ago

Really now, a major part of dealing with "burnout" is to think of it as a necessary part of personal growth and self-discovery process -- more like a simple need to detach and "sleep" once in a while, rather than a kind of a crash or a breakdown as we are inculcated into thinking it as being.

fpotter• 16 years ago

Yes, go to college but don't go for the piece of paper, and don't go to a community college if you can help it.

I was in almost exactly the same situation as you at 19 (28 now). I screwed up HS to the point where no good university would accept me, and spent 18-20 doing web dev and not really growing. I realized I had to get out of there.

My advice: go to whatever 4-year, brick and mortar university will accept you and WORK HARD to prove your HS transcript is not an accurate assessment of your abilities. Live on campus. Then transfer to the best school you can that's going to give you the most opportunities for growth. I ended up at a big research university where you could get involved in research as an undergrad, and loved it.

Another thing: hang out with the right people. I think people, to a certain extent, are just a product of their peer group. If you're surrounded by smart, motivated people, it's going to rub off on you.

If you have a choice, I'd recommend not starting at a community college. It's harder. You're not going to be surrounded by people with the same mindset and goals.

svrocks• 16 years ago

You don't have to go to college if you are self-motivated. I actually think it's detrimental because it fills the time and gives you an excuse for being lazy. "Oh but I'm going to school already, I don't have time to hack together X with all my schoolwork!".

My unqualified advice: learn machine learning/AI. MIT OpenCourseware has good lecture notes and I believe Stanford's ML course has free lecture videos. These were the most interesting parts of my undergrad experience (and very practical too)

mikeyur• 16 years ago

I'm 19, dropped out of school in grade 12 to work at a startup and continue my freelance career (internet marketing) that I had been doing throughout high school. I spent 7 months at a startup and the 9-5 burnt me out, it's pretty sad. I can do 100 hours a week for myself, but 40-50 hours for someone else is impossible. I have no idea how my parents did it, because it fucking killed me.

I quit my job and took a trip to London. Best idea I've ever had. Keep working until you have a small cushion and then quit, take a 1 month vacation in a country much different than your own and just try to enjoy yourself. Meet new people, spend time hacking on stuff you enjoy, just do what makes you happy. A couple weeks in London gave me a fresh look on stuff, gave me a chance to 'grow up' a bit. I've been called 'mature for my age' since I was 10, but this really made me realize I know absolutely nothing.

I got back, went back to freelancing and playing with startup ideas/meeting new people locally in my spare time (90% of my days). I had so many new business ideas and markets I could approach for freelance work, I thought of a handful of products. I meet with people who are much smarter than myself and bounce ideas off of them - bullshitting with another entrepreneur over coffee can give you so much insight on markets, product ideas, etc.

I have a few things that make me happy: friends, making my own money, and building cool shit. I've accomplished the first two, and working on that last part at the moment. I still live at home and my next big step in life is moving out, not sure if it will make me happy but I think it's a big step in the 'growing up' epiphany I had.

I can't comment on college, but for a few weeks last year I felt I might be missing out on something seeing my friends' facebook pictures of them at their new school. I thought about going to school for a 'real' non-tech degree, something simple like a pharmacist assistant (<$2k for whole course and a guaranteed job) but that phase passed. The whole situation reminded me of how much I hated high school and how this is very much like an extension with all of the required courses. I like how free I am, I like working stupid hours on stuff that makes me happy (or money - I've found they're kinda related in my case). I'm looking at drop-in college courses for things like iPhone app development, or an intro to web application development that they offer at a local technical college - being a marketing guy trying to find technical co-founders is a bitch, think I need to expand my brain and at least give development a shot. I need to throw myself into unfamiliar situations to grow, like last month when I had to talk in front of ~30 strangers at an event - simple for some, panic-attack inducing for others, but I pushed through it and felt better in the end.

You have to try something new, get out of your current situation for a bit. If anything you'll recharge your batteries and come back with a new point of view on things, or have a total epiphany and make a drastic change. Just try to do what makes you happy. My email/twitter are in my profile, my phone number is on my website, feel free to email/call me because we're both kinda going through the same thing. I have ideas I want to bounce off of people, and am always putting myself in a position to make new friends or find a co-founder for some project I think could work. This offer is open to anyone else in the HN community as well.

peterbotond• 16 years ago

go and research hard cover books of your subjects in a liberal arts univerisity's library of your choice. for a fee many will let you read books, take 2 home for 10 days, do it for 6 months, see what happens. the fee is less than a whole semester and many of the teachers, librarians are very helpful. have a good quest.

basicxman• 16 years ago

This is so scarily complimenting my life I'm paranoid of this throwaway account.

Ask HN: 19, developer, burnt out, advice please

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