Facebook and Google want China, but China doesn’t want them

https://www.techinasia.com/facebook-googles-long-road-china

by williswee • 8 years ago

41 52 8 years ago

techinasia.com

est3• 8 years ago

Of course China want Google and Facebook, but only the "obedient and compliant" Google and Facebook.

zarriak• 8 years ago

No they don't. Time and time again have chosen the local competition.

est3• 8 years ago

It's not a foreign/local problem, it's a service good/bad problem.

sonnyblarney3• 8 years ago

"No they don't. Time and time again have chosen the local competition."

Then why don't we just give the Chinese unfettered access to Google and 'see what they want' ...

sanxiyn7• 8 years ago

No, China does not want Google just like South Korea does not want Google. Everybody uses Naver here. China and South Korea do not want Google because local alternatives are superior.

drawnwren• 8 years ago

If that were true, they wouldn't feel the need to ban Google. Naver is a completely different problem than China.

nitwit0052• 8 years ago

Google had a decent hunk of the market share when it was there, and it seems to be totally dominant in Taiwan.

I'd note there were articles about people griping about it being blocked at the time: https://qz.com/239810/frustrated-chinese-web-users-bemoan-ba...

sonnyblarney3• 8 years ago

Ok then, let China have access to regular Google and Facebook and then everyone can make up their own minds, how about that?

Because my bet is that there are 100's of millions of Chinese who wouldn't mind access to Facebook or Google.

Bendingo• 8 years ago

Of course

I must be naive and/or thick because I can't think why China would want them.

Google/Facebook are used to sell things and spy on users.

China surely has plenty of other ways of doing both.

est3• 8 years ago

Google/Facebook are used to sell things and spy on users.

Easy, China want to use Google/Facebook to spy foreign targets.

Google withdraw from China exactly because of this.

newnewpdro• 8 years ago

If you were China, would you want these American companies having such visibility into and influence over your people's lives?

Just look at how FB was abused in the last election, of course China doesn't want a third party running the show.

marco_salvatori2• 8 years ago

My suspicion is that its very unlikely that Google and FB are going to be able to establish the government relationships that would allow them to operate successfully in China.Google collects massive amounts of citizen data and it has close relations with the US military / security institutions. The combination means Google will never be a trusted operator in China. Facebook is in a worse position. In addition to being a data collection platform with US government connections, it is a communications platform not under the direct control of China, located in the US.And these US communications platforms have a history now of being associated with movements of anti-government dissent around the world.

More generally, I dont see how US tech companies are going to be able to have it both ways -- be both willing partners in US government policy and also non threatening to Chinese sovereignty.

seanmcdirmid6• 8 years ago

I don't see how Chinese tech companies are going to be able to have it both ways either if they ever actually want to leave China. This is one market (the world) vs. another market (China), and they are increasingly becoming separated at the Internet level.

Also, if China decides the only way it can keep competing is by blocking their competition, then the rest of the world will just wag their finger at them when they complain about export markets for their cultural products. If the Chinese government were smart, they would find a way to let Facebook and Google in while maintaining control over censorship AND keeping its anointed tech companies with majority market shares.

sanxiyn7• 8 years ago

Tik Tok (developed by Chinese company Toutiao) seems to be doing fine globally. In general, I don't see any backlash against apps and services developed in China.

marco_salvatori2• 8 years ago

Yes, strict separation will probably be the norm where there are sovereignty issues. And it will be enforced both ways. So for example,I will make the claim that if Alipay expanded into the US it would own the entire payments market in one year. Alipay is just that much better than anything else available in the US. Plausible or not, Alipay will never operate successfully in the US because the US will not cede sovereignty over part of its financial infrastructure to China.

I can not say if that is smart or not. That question is outside of my technical sphere of competence. But I believe it's an accurate evaluation of how states will operate, as soon as these systems start being used to project power.

wanghq• 8 years ago

Seems apple is doing well in China even though it also collects massive data, e.g. the icloud....basically in China apple follows the China gov policy.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/28/17055088/apple-chinese-ic...

some_account• 8 years ago

Google collects massive amounts of citizen data and it has close relations with the US military / security institutions. The combination means Google will never be a trusted operator in China.

But in the US and Europe, people don't have any problems with this combination. I blame the dumbing down of people in western culture to the degree that they go "i like free stuff" when confronted with the truth about why it's free.

lalos• 8 years ago

Facebook and Google want that 1 billion of possible users to comply with the thirst of the stock market that has been accustomed to user growth metrics as a signal for sustainable tech company. They have already expanded on where they can and you can smell the desperation. Specially with projects like Free Basics, Internet.org, Aquila, Loon and Skybender which are not charity, they just want more users with internet to adopt there platforms to keep with the growth metrics. It's going to be an interesting next 10 years for Google and Facebook.

malandrew• 8 years ago

The best thing both of them can do (and every other tech giant that is not Chinese) is to put up a moat around China and contain all the competing Chinese tech companies to only China. This means putting extra effort into every country that borders China and every country with whom China has a strong economic relationship.

This isn't too different to how Facebook conquered universities where it was #2 to some other social network. Instead of trying to replace the social network at that university (A) with Facebook, it focused on all the universities (B, C, D, etc.) around that university (A) so that there would be a strong social network composed of the secondary universities (B, C, D, etc.) and that would lead students at the first university (A) to join Facebook when they made friends with students at the secondary universities (B, C, D, etc.).

andromedavision5• 8 years ago

This is the type thing that makes me support President Trump. The Chinese have very unfair business practices and they require a strong President to deal with them.

natch• 8 years ago

The leap to the suggestion that Trump is a strong president is where you lost me. Otherwise I agree with you that the US needs a strong response to China.

andromedavision5• 8 years ago

Why'd I lose you? There is a case to be made for Trump being the only US president to stand up to China in any meaningful way. He was able to do what everyone was afraid to do (impose tariffs regardless of any threats from China) and that takes strength. You don't have to like him as a person, but you cannot claim he's not doing a fantastic job.

Spooky232• 8 years ago

Trump’s rhetoric was intriguing in this area at one point. The actions not so much.

As he cracks about “shithole” countries, China is building the infrastructure to exploit their resources. As allies in the Pacific look for leadership to contain China, we’re insulting NATO nations, who are for all intents US military vassal states.

andromedavision5• 8 years ago

China is building the infrastructure to exploit their resources

This is even worse. China will eat up the world in a similar way in which they ate up Sri-Lanka's port. Build a ton of infra for the developing world and then once they're unable to pay for it, they camp in your country forcibly.

The debt is mounting in most countries where China has 'invested' in infrastructure. For instance in Kenya, each Kenyan is estimated to already owe the Chinese roughly $100 and counting. May not mean much in the west but certainly is a lot of debt out of the total $1000 every Kenyan owes. Even the IMF is freakishly worried about Kenya's debt for crying out loud.

The Chinese will use unethical/unfair business practices to earn wealth from the west and then use it to recolonize developing countries while screwing over every other western country. Luckily, GEOTUS Trump will be able to stop this!

Facebook and Google want China, but China doesn’t want them

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