McDonald's Says Goodbye Cashiers, Hello Kiosks

https://www.forbes.com/sites/edrensi/2018/07/11/mcdonalds-says-goodbye-cashiers-hello-kiosks/

by tosh • 8 years ago

29 90 8 years ago

cimmanom• 8 years ago

If they completely eliminate cashiers, that will be a loss for the customer too - no one to answer questions or take a custom order that’s reasonable yet outside the parameters the computer system is aware of.

jordigh• 8 years ago

The computer system allows you to remove or add pretty much any ingredient. I haven't been able to stump it yet with a customisation request.

springogeek• 8 years ago

I love this system. I've had some pretty poor experiences with custom orders when dealing with an employee. The kiosks make the anxiety of ordering much more tolerable, as I can specify precisely what I want, rather than worrying about reducing the risk of an order being misinterpreted.

ryanmercer6• 8 years ago

I've seen video of the kiosks in Asia, they allow you FAR more customization than the 15-year-old behind the counter currently does, you pick the base item you want and the system allows you to fully customize it with pictures to the point of making a foot tall monstrosity out of a regular hamburger.

If they are really smart about it, they'll tie it into an app so you can order ahead or save your favorite orders and just use NFC to load the entire order and tweak anything if necessary. This would not only be nice for the consumer but would provide them with a treasure trove of data on individual customers.

pliny• 8 years ago

The Israeli franchise has an app that does what you suggest (order ahead and favorite orders). It was rolled out with those features at least 3 years ago, IIRC.

mattmanser2• 8 years ago

In the UK they have been rolling these out. They don't eliminate the cashier completely, there's still 1 or 2, but most people now seem to use the kiosks from the few times I've been in since they rolled them out a year ago.

The more annoying thing is that they've moved to a JIT production system at the same time, which means if you just wanted to pick up a cheeseburger in a rush, you end up waiting much longer than you used to.

The people on the JIT production line also tend to completely ignore the customers and tend to just stand around chatting right in front of them waiting for things to arrive, the customers all mill around awkwardly near the serving counter, and all this reinforces the impression you're waiting a lonnnggggggggg time.

It really feels less a fast food restaurant and more like an awkward food restaurant.

Perhaps it's just because I'm British ;)

On the plus, I'm sure it's reduced food waste.

ryanmercer6• 8 years ago

The more annoying thing is that they've moved to a JIT production system at the same time, which means if you just wanted to pick up a cheeseburger in a rush, you end up waiting much longer than you used to.

They've done this here in the US with several of the product lines, preparing it once you order it instead of keeping it in a heating unit. It's pretty annoying in the drive-thru unless they are really busy. If there is only a car or two in front of you, guess what... once you pay they're going to have you park and wait a couple of minutes, if there are several cars in front of you though it will usually be ready by the time you get to the second window.

I'm not getting fast food because I want made-from-scratch freshness, I'm getting fast food because I am in a hurry and want something inherently portable.

lbriner• 8 years ago

I think in Britain, the cashiers in McDonalds are noticeably better than most fast food places and I have more trouble with the kisosk. The Touchscreens are variable and for some reason, they don't detect when the receipt paper has run out so you are left hoping the order went through and not lost in the ether. I have waited a long time for food since the kiosks and have to go and ask if the order is on the system.

Since people pick it, I have still had order mistakes but hey, it usually means ordering quickly instead of waiting behind the person who wants to reconfigure the entire menu during their order.

jon-wood• 8 years ago

My local McD's in the UK has also added table service alongside the kiosks. You place your order, and then pick up a table number sign and enter its number. Some time later someone comes over with your food.

akhatri_aus• 8 years ago

Looking at this in Australia, people avoid the counter and use these machines. There's something to avoiding human interaction these days.

There's still a cashier if you need one but there's hardly anyone at them, even if there's a queue to use the kiosks.

stevekemp2• 8 years ago

One of the local McDonalds here in Helsinki has a couple of these machines. I go there once every 6-8 weeks, but now I do visit I exclusively use the machines.

Ordering form the machine lets me choose English, and while most Finnish people understand English I feel bad when I have to use it.

(I'll be taking another round of language classes in a few months.)

zaarn2• 8 years ago

I found the kiosks much more approachable for customized orders. If I order a hamburger with fries I don't get asked if I wanted a menu and I can actually flick through some of the offers before deciding without having a impromptu mob forming behind me.

Unnormal orders are much easier and normal orders are quicker.

Cthulhu_2• 8 years ago

I can imagine the kiosks make it harde for McD's to upsell to e.g. a menu, now you mention it.

diminoten• 8 years ago

The computer is aware of enough of the possible parameters such that the lost customization is vastly outweighted by the benefits.

mrweasel2• 8 years ago

The kiosk have been installed in McDonald restaurants in Denmark for over a year at this point. They haven't eliminated the cashiers, they,ve just reduced the number from four to one in most of the places I've visited. One cashier have been converted to just handing out orders.

For the most part it's actually a better experience, it's certainly faster. The touch screen kiosks could be more intuitive.

harryf2• 8 years ago

Perhaps I'm over sensitive but the idea of touching a screen that random other people have touched isn't exactly appetizing

ryanmercer6• 8 years ago

One less person to mess up my order.

afpx2• 8 years ago

Of course Forbes would try to make a connection to minimum wage, but there are much more practical reasons to do this: consistent user experience, elimination of training, instant rollout, capacity management, A/B testing, transaction speed, etc.

If the kiosk is designed well, it ends up being a better experience than a human interaction. One example that comes to mind is Panara Bread’s system. If a kiosks is available, I always prefer it to a person.

itake• 8 years ago

actually, I prefer the opposite. I know exactly what I want at Panera and I don't want to spend time clicking through menus when I can just say my order.

I will use the kiosks if there is a line for the cashiers and at Starbucks, I like using their mobile app instead of waiting in line to give my order.

ams6110• 8 years ago

I can't stand the kiosk either. It's much faster to say "Egg McMuffin and a large coffee" then to go fumbling around through screens and menus. If there's much of a line I just leave. The food's not that good to be worth waiting for.

Nursie• 8 years ago

It doesn't matter so much whether minimum wage is $5 or $50 - running a machine saves them money.

If they can make customer experience and efficiency gains off the back of it as well, it's an all round win for them.

annabellish• 8 years ago

All of those things are meaningless to a company on their own. This kind of decision comes down to one simple calculation: Is more profit likely to be generated from doing it, or from not doing it?

All the things you've mentioned are things which potentially increase profit, though the rollout is a big investment with a lot of risk, which decreases profit.

Also decreasing profit is having to pay your workers more, so in that sense, increases in minimum wage possible did contribute to this decision. The thing which people who point to that as a sign of minimum wage increases being bad miss is that these things are a moving target. Automated kiosks are getting cheaper every year, and at worst an increase in minimum wage brings it a few years closer.

That's not great for people working in jobs that were a few years away from being economically viable to automated, but they'll still benefit in their next job, and a huge chunk of the population still benefits (and thus the economy overall)

afpx2• 8 years ago

Yes, of course, decreasing costs always makes sense, but Forbes makes it appear that that’s the driving force,

One thing the last few decades has shown particularly well is that often it’s easier to make money through growth than through cost cutting. Of course, this isn’t universal, especially within tiny markets, commoditized offerings, or when growth has plateaued.

dev_north_east• 8 years ago

There's a great advantage when in a foreign country too. I was abroad recently and dying of a hangover... I managed to make my way to the local McDonald's and instead of having the usual translation issues, I used the kiosk and waited for my number to come up.

Humdeee3• 8 years ago

I'm the opposite. I actually believe that if the overwhelming standard of the kiosk order were to exist today, it'd be an excellent opportunity for a chain store to re-introduce human interaction when ordering and be very successful along with that "new" marketing approach.

There are excellent pros to the kiosk, and I use it when impatient and not wanting to stand in line. However, if I walk in to an empty store, my experience would be more enjoyable when speaking to a person rather than a wall size touch screen.

creaghpatr• 8 years ago

The Chick-fil-a app (not a kiosk but same concept) does make it a better experience despite the fact that Chick-fil-a employees are known for excellent customer service.

During lunch hour my Chick-fil-a was a mad house of ppl waiting in line to order but once the app hit critical mass, the line basically disappears and people just show up to pick up their order and leave. I think the key to success iss that CFA only has a couple items on the menu and there are only so many ways you can customize a chicken sandwich (or tenders or nuggets).

Because the app streamlined their process they upped their throughput and hired more employees to meet this demand. So I think kiosks could ultimately be a win-win for employees and customers but we gotta get over the learning curve hump. The McDonalds kiosks are NOT user friendly.

jm__87• 8 years ago

Can't it be both? It's pretty obvious that a rising minimum wage would increase McDonalds costs. As min wage rises, at some point, assuming the average customer is indifferent to how their order is taken, it will make sense to have fewer cashiers and more kiosks. You're making an assumption that everyone just prefers a computer to a person. I personally always go to the cashier and can't stand the kiosks.

detaro• 8 years ago

duplicate of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17517278

ToFab123• 8 years ago

After that comes the burger flipping robot, the drone delivery robot … and free McDonalds for all readers of hacker news :)

harryf2• 8 years ago

Influencers get to eat free burgers

BrentOzar• 8 years ago

I've used these in downtown Chicago, and they're wonderful because:

* I don't have to yell to be heard during rush hours

* It makes lines way easier to deal with (they can pack in more kiosks than cashiers)

* Apple Pay seems way more reliable on these than the cashier machines

* I don't have to wonder whether they entered my customization correctly

ggg9990• 8 years ago

All these unemployed people are not going to crawl under a bridge and die. When people are hungry and see people with food, they kill them and take their food. We don’t really have any plan for this yet and it will seem like a distant scenario until we are in it.

ryanmercer6• 8 years ago

All the unemployed high school students?

kristopolous2• 8 years ago

The average age of a fast food worker is 29 and 40% are over 25. Fewer than 1/3 are under 20.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/08/more-th...

smcl• 8 years ago

More people work in fast food industry than just high school students. I think you know this though and you're just trying to have a bit of fun at their expense. Don't do that.

DavidVoid• 8 years ago

I have a feeling this quote will start getting more relevant again.

"[D]emand work. If they do not give you work, demand bread. If they deny you both, take bread." - Emma Goldman, said to a crowd during the panic of 1893.

Jaruzel• 8 years ago

All the comments so far seem to be just re-hashing personal anecdotes about using the kiosks, and not the key message that's in the article.

Replacing cashiers in stores with kiosks, and ultimately replacing the fries-making and burger-flipping jobs with automation, removes a massive slice[1] of job roles for young teens from the market. As the article writer asserts, this will prevent lots of first time workers from learning the basic work-skills that are needed as they progress to more senior roles elsewhere. Things like time-keeping, quality-control, ability to focus, and social skills... the list goes on.

With young people the world over now only able to interact with society via the medium of toxic social media, resulting in poor face-to-face social skills, the next time you bump into an intolerant sulky mono-syllabic belligerent teen, remember that it was these sort of technical 'innovations' that resulted in their abandonment, and directly contributed to them becoming the anti-social outcasts that mainstream media has always painted them as.

As elders, we need to support the up-coming generation, not cast them aside in pursuit of our own greatness.

---

[1] pun totally intended.

imgabe• 8 years ago

And yet, 5 days ago we were lamenting that teenagers no longer want these jobs and they are going unfilled: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17557298

Sounds like the market is coming up with a solution. There are many ways for teens to learn the lessons you mentioned besides working in fast food.

krapp2• 8 years ago

McDonald's would have automated those jobs away regardless of labor supply, and whatever alternatives there might be are going to be automated as well. Entry-level work is categorically being done away with, and yet the expectation of social and business skills being provided by entry-level work is not.

melling• 8 years ago

How did kids learn before McDonalds?

falcolas• 8 years ago

As children on farms and ranches, or in the mail rooms of large companies, or as journeymen for physical trades, or a thousand other low level opportunities that no longer exist, require degrees, or that they're now having to compete against aging baby boomers for.

kennydude2• 8 years ago

These are common in the UK to pretty much all McDonald's.

They've also moved to a style similar to Argos where you pay and then wait in a different place to collect instead of 1 cashier taking on 6 orders and having to crowd around their till. They do have 1 or 2 human cashiers if people choose however.

Overall it's much better. For a customer it's less crowded and for the staff there's less pressure to take on several orders at once.

renjimen2• 8 years ago

It's also the case in Russia, as I discovered on a recent trip. I wonder how McDonald's decides where to roll the kiosks out first? Countries with lower expectations of customer service?

edit: typo

Tijdreiziger2• 8 years ago

In the Netherlands, I have even seen one McDonald's where the cashiers' registers were hooked into the same system; i.e. if you ordered at the cashier, you would get a number just as if you used the kiosk and would have to wait at a different counter to collect your order.

kennydude2• 8 years ago

Yeah that's the same system we have. It works rather well.

dajohnson893• 8 years ago

I'm a regular McDonald's customer for breakfast, about 3-4 times per week. the ones I go to in NYC have kiosks. I refuse to use them. here's why:

* I order an off-menu item (scrambled eggs, they're delicious and you're welcome). it's literally impossible (afaik) to get it from the kiosk

* i want to see somebody and and have some kind of interaction. I'm a software engineer and I'm about to spend 8 hours staring at a computer screen with minimal human contact. I'm a huge introvert but still human and will go crazy alone just like everyone else.

* sometimes the cashiers are cool. I don't mean to be creepy but last week one definitely was flirting with me and asked where I'm from. it got so intense, that at the end she burst out in laughter and she was smiling at me the whole time till I got my order and left. Im a single guy in his 20s, don't skewer me for this. another time, this guy made a d&d joke (!!) and we both had a good laugh.

* I don't want to touch a filthy screen. there's 200+ ppl in these places at a given time... remember this is downtown Manhattan.they do an admirable job of keeping the place clean, but it's just one more unnecessary disease vector

* I used to be a cashier at a KFC in high school. it helped pay for my first, oh so shitty car. $7/hr, I was happy because minimum wage at the time was like $6.50. I made money, got tasty free employee meals, learned how to work with others, and met tons of cool people (and some shitty ones). it taught me a lot and we had fun.

icebraining2• 8 years ago

I'd be surprised if having a cashier breathing on you wasn't more unsanitary than touching the tip of you finger on a glass panel a few times.

EA• 8 years ago

More hands touch the door handle entering the building than the kiosk.

Humdeee3• 8 years ago

Fingers also touch faces including the inside of mouths, ears, eyes, etc.

Keyframe• 8 years ago

Sounds like you're an ideal customer for a diner, not McDonald's.

dajohnson893• 8 years ago

I have about 10 minutes to grab food, not a half hour

PurpleRamen• 8 years ago

about 3-4 times per week.

You might wanna rethink your diet, that makes a very unhealthy impression.

I don't want to touch a filthy screen.

There is an app for it. I think it was/will released this summer.

dajohnson893• 8 years ago

You might wanna rethink your diet, that makes a very unhealthy impression.

Coming from /u/PurpleRamen, that's rich :-). But seriously, I get oatmeal, scrambled eggs, a hasbrown and maybe a diet coke if not bottled water. Not terrific, but hard to beat the price/convenience/speed/taste factor.

yread• 8 years ago

* I don't want to touch a filthy screen.

I usually interact with public touchscreens using the tip of my credit card for this very reason. Works better than my fingers anyway

gremlinsinc• 8 years ago

Not sure how to fix the first one.

I'm totally opposite on point #2, I have social anxiety and don't like interacting with people if I can help it lol.

Third point: sometimes they are jerks too, and provide shitty service. But if I had their job, I would too - so I totally understand. Many don't speak much english here.

Fourth : Use a disinfectant wipe. The cashier touches lots of money, and the register, then may touch your food, drink containers, fries, etc...

Fifth: My first job was McDonalds, I've worked at Steak-n-Shake, a Mexican restaurant as a busser, and Papa Johns (Delivery) All before I was 20 (38 now).

It was valuable to me, but I believe in universal basic income, and I believe that in order for it to happen, and for us to move into post-scarcity we must haste the transition to automation. I'd like to see as many jobs as possibly turn over to machines in the next decade. It'll force conversations about alternate ways for society to exist.

We could choose to put all non-workers into concentration like camps, where they're fed shitty food, and just exist... maybe they ride bikes to power society and watch social media shows all day (Black mirror ep. on this)...

Maybe we give everyone basic income and they can afford a roof, food, clothes, education, and maybe many will start some side project or entrepreneurial thing when there aren't traditional jobs, there might still be barter/trade of sorts outside normal commerce.

30-40% of jobs will be gone by 2030 (that's 12 years away)... This is just one part of that move.

kuon2• 8 years ago

Here in Switzerland, we have had those kiosks for a few years and they are great.

* Much better product discoverability.

* Better customization (like removing onion from the burger).

* Easier to see the prices and compare them.

* No more waiting in line, you just go to the kiosk and then pick a seat, they serve at the table.

* I live in the French part of Switzerland and French is my native language, and while I have a good german level, understanding every swiss german dialect is really hard, I'm glad I can use the machine. This also applies to tourists as the kiosk is also in english.

renjimen2• 8 years ago

This also saved my ass in Russia recently since I don't know any Russian and the staff didn't know any English. I do think it's nice to have the option to be served by a real person if you want to though, so hopefully McDonald's go with a combination of kiosks and cashiers.

kuon2• 8 years ago

I didn't mention it, but here they kept two cashiers (at least at the restaurant near me).

reustle• 8 years ago

While I agree it's super helpful, I travel full time and trying to / learning to communicate with humans is half the fun! :)

majewsky2• 8 years ago

while I have a good german level, understanding every swiss german dialect is really hard

I'm a native German, and I find that hard as well. I was in Switzerland once and I saw a news broadcast where the weather segment was spoken in the Zurich dialect of German. I only know that because my host told me; I didn't recognize it as German at all.

Mediterraneo10• 8 years ago

"Schweizerdeutsch ist keine Sprache, sondern eine Halskrankheit."

Tijdreiziger2• 8 years ago

No more waiting in line, you just go to the kiosk and then pick a seat, they serve at the table.

McDonalds should introduce this in more countries. At the kiosks in the Netherlands, after you order, you still have to wait at the counter for your order to come up.

BonesJustice• 8 years ago

+1 for discoverability. I haven’t used the McDonald’s kiosks, but I’ve ordered many times using the Chick-Fil-A app, and it’s great. I discovered all sorts of options I didn’t even know existed. I can get pepper jack cheese on my spicy chicken sandwich? Hell yes, please. And so many sauces I didn’t know about. You can order an Arnold Palmer too, with either sweet or unsweetened tea. Very flexible.

If done right, this could definitely be an improvement. On the other hand, they implemented a not so great kiosk-based system at my office cafeteria, and that transition wasn’t exactly smooth. The menu selections on the kiosks were much too rigid, and did not offer enough flexibility for customization.

arketyp• 8 years ago

I see these in Sweden. Self-serving checkouts are booming here too. Personally I hate them, it's the same masturbatory horror as with VR goggles. But the tech will improve and become more seamless I'm sure. And human interaction will become a luxury. The fancy stores still hold on to their cashiers, I've noticed. Gradually they will become the experts, connoisseurs, who will help and guide you with your more involved questions, or if you're just high out of your mind or whatever. "What burger works with my French Cabernet Sauvignon?"

So the article lifts an interesting point. The low-competence trainee entry will disappear, meanwhile perhaps a greater demand for expertise than ever before will arise. How will the training occur?

tnzn• 8 years ago

It's been like that for like, 3 years, in France

dantheman• 8 years ago

One aspect of these kiosks that is often overlooked is that it's an exceptionally better experience if you don't speak the native language. It allows you to order exactly what you want, customize it how you want it, and not have to stumble through a foreign language.

Freak_NL• 8 years ago

But stumbling through a foreign language is one of the nice things about being on holiday. It puts things in perspective. Why bother going abroad at all if you don't intend to either learn the local language (work, study), or just want to experience the foreignness of it all (leisure)?

majewsky2• 8 years ago

Why bother going abroad at all

To experience a different:

- climate

- landscape

- city size (there are no 10M+ cities on my continent)

- architecture style

- culture (can be very diverse between speakers of the same language)

gsich• 8 years ago

Why do anything that makes life more comfortable?

Humdeee3• 8 years ago

I don't see how companies can overlook language support in any kiosk. I live in Canada on the border between Ontario and Quebec and nearly all interactive procedures start with choosing "English" or "French" as a step 1 to progressing to anything else. Choosing a language or making it obvious to change the language from the default would be standard I imagine.

I should be able to fly to China and order a meal with very little difficulty, if any.

pongogogo• 8 years ago

I think the article is wrong, he assumes 100% automation. I'm not sure the marginal gain from completely eliminating all serving jobs will be worth it for a long time given that there's probably quite a long tail of quite complex interactions when things go wrong (and hey, redundancy is important as well in case the kiosks go down!). Though obviously the number of cashiers is going to end up significantly lower than it was at the start of this decade.

jefe_• 8 years ago

I'm really surprised this has taken so long. In 2000, I made it to my state's Invention Convention, even got an article in the local newspaper with an 'invention' I called E-Waiter. It was a 'tablet' with a simple Visual C++ app to place orders. I legitimately thought I was going to win. One of my judges was the founder of a prominent regional pizza chain. He pretty quickly made the assessment it wasn't practical. I didn't win the event, and being a kid I didn't pursue it further.

Every time I see one of these things, I remind myself that good ideas are only half of the puzzle, the other half is the ability to execute.

detritus• 8 years ago

Also, I imagine, the ever-decreasing cost of large format touchscreens. I shudder to think how much one of those must've cost back in 2000!

kszxgz• 8 years ago

Why do they not replace the kiosks with QR codes on the dining tables? You scan the code and order directly from your smartphone.

That's the experience I know from China. Are there any restaurants in the US that do it similarly? Or perhaps not due to the lack of WeChat and suitable payment providers?

McDonald's Says Goodbye Cashiers, Hello Kiosks

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