Marijuana addiction is real, and rising

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/06/24/marijuana-addiction-rising/

by jeffreyrogers • 8 years ago

115 156 8 years ago

techer• 8 years ago

Addiction is real, and rising.

dev_420• 8 years ago

Throwaway because obviously the stigma. But yes, it's very real. I am addicted to marijuana. I smoke nearly 3 grams a day; what has become a $1000+/month habit. I've always loved weed but the high salary has allowed me to lose control. I can't sleep or eat without it. Within 24 hours without weed I become an intolerable asshole who cannot eat or sleep. When I do sleep without it, it's full of nightmares and I wake up soaked in a puddle of sweat. I tell myself I am going to quit after every single joint, then I roll another. I know it could be broken with a few months of detox but it's too painful to deal with.

That being said I don't think it has anything intrinsically to do with weed. People are just as addicted to cheeseburgers or coffee. The problem is a combination of personal character flaw, and a society that forces people into self medication of all forms.

dev_420b• 8 years ago

I had basically the same experience, though I think I was closer to a gram or so a day, and I never had trouble eating.

But yeah, to the people saying it’s not real, try a few days of insomnia. The feeling of being high is nice, but not terribly addictive or unquittable in itself. But going through the crappy parts of withdrawal, feeling irritable, etc., and on top of that, not being able to sleep? It’s torture.

In the end I couldn’t quit cold turkey. It took me maybe six months of weaning off before I could quit.

Good luck to you.

merinowool4• 8 years ago

People have insomnia and are irritable without ever smoking. Maybe cannabis just masking your problem and what you feel as "withdrawals" is not caused by cannabis. People often attribute causal relationship if it fits their limited knowledge.

JumpCrisscross• 8 years ago

Were there any distinct early warning signs that could have flagged others to what was going on? I have friends who, post-legalization, are naturally enthusiastic. Want to know the warning signs unique to cannabis addiction I can keep an eye out for.

nine_k• 8 years ago

I heard a rule of thumb along the line of "don't do it three days in a row; if you have trouble stopping on the thirds day, start worrying".

fhood5• 8 years ago

Can't speak for marijuana addiction, but I know an addict or two, and problems seem to develop most prominently if the substance is used heavily and for self-medication.

hsienmaneja11• 8 years ago

That you experience significant physical withdrawal symptoms from marijuana certainty calls into question the street wisdom that pot isn’t (physically) addicting.

Baeocystin9• 8 years ago

There is one important difference: withdrawal from something like alcohol can actually kill you. Withdrawal from marijuana makes you an irritable asshole for a week or two.

The hardest part is understanding and coping with the issue that drives the user to use marijuana so heavily in the first place. If it can be understood what need the marijuana use is providing for, changing use patterns becomes possible.

fhood5• 8 years ago

Sure, but nearly anything that causes a chemical change can be physically addicting right? Once your brain starts equalizing for whatever imbalances are being created.

chimeracoder2• 8 years ago

certainty calls into question the street wisdom that pot isn’t (physically) addicting.

This isn't "street wisdom"; there's a massive body of clinical research that's gone into marijuana and investigating its effects on the body and brain.

Marijuana is one of the most-studied drugs in existence, far more so than most prescription medication on the market.

boomboomsubban10• 8 years ago

Or it's a combination of mental addiction and the placebo effect. The ritual has become such an important part of their life, that when they remove it their anxiety causes a physical reaction based on their concept of withdrawl.

hutzlibu3• 8 years ago

It is not, "only" psychological addictive. But since our mind controls our body, the symptoms can be indeed severe, if the use, or abuse, like in this case, is extreme. Smoking 3g a day is the rough equivavlent of constantly drinking wodka instead of water.

kimbojimbo332• 8 years ago

Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome seems to not be that well known. CHS appears to suggest that for certain segments of the population there is a physical component to marijuana addiction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_syndro...

chillingeffect• 8 years ago

weed before bed inhibits rem/dream sleep. when you stop, the brain gives you the saved up rem sleep and vivid dreams.

the rest are classic anxiety symptoms. i wouldn't focus as much on the weed as on what is troubling you underneath.

Seriously, working with a therapist to address the stress, abuse, trauma or whatever else will help quite a bit and the weed use will take care of itself. good luck and trust that your issues are resolvable!!!

ggggtez2• 8 years ago

Within 24 hours without weed I become an intolerable asshole

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest the underlying problem might not be the weed.

fhood5• 8 years ago

If the implication here is that the intolerable asshole part is a personality problem, that doesn't seem like a fair accusation. Caffeine and sugar withdrawal cause much the same symptoms. It is hard to be nice when you have a headache and feel crappy.

cabaalis• 8 years ago

It might be, though. I have heard this exact thing from a friend about her husband. She may divorce him over it. It is very specifically when he is out. It is worth looking into the effects of prolonged drug use (even mj) on the brain and personality.

beat4• 8 years ago

"24 hours without antipsychotics and I become schizophrenic".

"I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest the underlying problem might not be the antipsychotics".

See the problem with your phrasing?

Lots of people deal with anxiety, anger management, and other relatively mild psychological malfunctions by self-medicating (or prescription medicating) with THC. That's why it gets prescribed as medication for these things. THC is effective in many cases, with very few side effects, relative to other medications.

I have friends who are "marijuana addicts", who are pretty horrible to be around when they're not stoned, but fine when they are. They can be social and do their jobs. So, um, what's wrong with that? I am quite happy for them.

edit: I should add that there's this Puritan tendency to treat things like anger management issues as a moral failing rather than a medical problem. So medicating rather than moralizing is seen as a character flaw. Personally, I deal with ADD. I've been formally diagnosed, and it's measurable and measured. I don't medicate for it and I pay a price for that - it puts limits on my activities and decisions, to shield my life from the problems ADD can cause. I don't medicate because the medication has caused side effects that were worse than the condition, for me. If I thought THC would help me deal with my ADD (it doesn't), I'd be out fighting for a prescription.

psalminen• 8 years ago

All addiction issues are just the surface of an underlying problem.

mrbgty• 8 years ago

If you haven't seen this, I recommend watching it as it explains the nightmares.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwaWilO_Pig

zolthrowaway• 8 years ago

I was able to quit after like a 5+ year pretty excessive habit. There were three steps that really helped me. 1) I removed all accessories from my home. I sold/gave away all of my pipes, vapes, e-nails, etc. 2) I started taking nootropics. For me personally, l-theanine, caffeine, and a multivitamin did wonders. Even if it's placebo (which I don't think it is) it really helped mitigate the appetite and fogginess issues for me. 3) Telling my friends I'm not smoking anymore. I established that I'm not smoking. A lot of them initially tried to get me to smoke. It's something they enjoy and I used to enjoy. I had to explain how I felt. The real friends stayed and others flaked out which is totally fine with me.

I do certainly understand the psychological addiction. It takes a toll. I definitely have unhealthy vices I'd like to cut back on, but for me personally, the steps above were enough to take me from waking up in the middle of the night to rip dabs to being totally sober. If you are interested in quitting, I would honestly recommend giving the above steps a try.

naner• 8 years ago

L-theanine and caffeine are considered nootroopics? That's just a cup of tea...

bcheung• 8 years ago

People don't wake up with nightmares and covered in sweat if they don't have a cheeseburger in the last 24 hours.

whb07• 8 years ago

I’d beg to differ. Go ask any XXXL wearing guy what happens if they clean up their diets.

bbeonx• 8 years ago

Symptoms of addiction vary. Food addiction is real.

hutzlibu3• 8 years ago

There are phases in my life, when I smoke a lot (but never nearly as much as you) and phases with nothing at all. So I regulary start and stop smoking. The trick for me is, not just not do anything anymore - you rather start doing something different. Because your mind is used to the reward of the ganja - if you miss that, there needs to be something else. Other pleasant experiences.

Physical activitys help a lot, or starting to travel. But just stopping ... I believe is very hard on your own. In general, when I smoke a lot, I tend to isolate myself more and more. And when I stop, I socialice again. So that works for me (mostly, transition phase can still be hard, though). If you lack people who could help you, think about professional help...

merinowool4• 8 years ago

Cannabis is non toxic, so what are you going to detox?

Do you roll with tobacco? People often say they are "addicted" to cannabis, but that is in fact tobacco they use.

You clearly have a problem nevertheless. It looks like your body is not compatible with what you smoke. Have you tried CBT therapy, to find out why do you need this?

chaosbutters314• 8 years ago

Sour patch kids are wayyyy more addictive than cheeseburgers and coffee. When you grab 4-5 of them and put them on your gum and suck down their sour goodness before getting that enjoyable gummy chew, it is heaven. I'd eat them till gums bled from all the acid.

ASalazarMX2• 8 years ago

a society that forces people into self medication of all forms

From personal experience, I believe it's not society forcing anything, but a character flaw that encourages self-gratification in the short term. That flaw can be bypassed, don't give up if you're not happy about it.

robdachshund5• 8 years ago

Hmm or perhaps it's because the legal medicines available for chronic illnesses, autoimmune disorders, severe IBS, seizures, and depression/anxiety, etc don't actually work and give you horrendous side effects.

Please stop speaking on behalf of others if you have no clue what you are talking about.

There are people with MS that smoke and are able to walk and move around and not be in constant unbearabke pain. People with chronic back pain do not have to take opioids loaded with toxic nsaids that will destroy their kidneys and get them hooked on narcotics. People and even children with untreatable seizures can live completely oridnary lives. People with depression, PTSD, and anxiety do not have to rely on dangerous antidepressants that can actually increase suicidal thoughts and have resulted in numerous suicides.

People are self medicating because weed is the only real medicine for many of these illnesses.

To call those people cowards is downright awful and completely unwarranted.

randomsearch• 8 years ago

I’ve read a bit about addiction recently, particularly wrt social media’s manipulation of users, but the books I’ve read are full of references to other types of addiction.

One very effective piece of advice appears to be that the addiction and your environment become intertwined. If you’re serious about giving up, then a change of location, job, friends seems to greatly increase your chances of being successful.

It’s not just “don’t hang around pubs”, but also “live in a new apartment where you don’t have that fridge with the shelf you use for alcohol, that comfy chair where you drink at night.” Etc. Your environment becomes full of cues to continue your addiction, because you’ve associated it with the drug (or video games, etc.)

I think it’s easier for some people to be addicted than others, so don’t be too hard on yourself for being in that situation, and keep trying. Get professional help. Sincerely, good luck.

jasonkostempski• 8 years ago

Have you tried weaning off?

fb03• 8 years ago

Humans can get hooked to anything that triggers a 'feel good' response, be it gorging on food, drugs, gambling or even exercising.

With all the grinding, long hours and stressful situations "modern life" puts us through, it's not difficult to see how people more and more just want to hit the 'instant gratification' button instead of actually getting better by working their underlying issues.... there is simply no time for downtime and relaxation anymore, everyone is just too busy doing "actual important stuff", which is a sad matter of affairs.

taobility• 8 years ago

you just want to give a reason to indulge yourself. Every adult should clearly know the difference between good habit or bad addiction.

asdffdsa321• 8 years ago

Is exercise a good habit or bad addiction?

eikenberry• 8 years ago

I don't think you meant it, but the way you put that makes it sound like you don't think people should ever indulge in things they enjoy.

nerdponx• 8 years ago

The problem is that some of these activities that deliver gratification - drinking alcohol, drinking coffee, smoking weed, playing video games - can be physiologically addicting. You might not realize your habit has become an addiction until you're already addicted.

rubicon33• 8 years ago

It's also sometimes a struggle to define when something is an addiction, and when it's healthy.

A cup of coffee a day. A couple hours of video games in the evening. Are these addictions? Where do you draw the line between healthy, and harmful? That seems fairly subjective to me. Yet, there's plenty of functional alcoholics that would say the same thing about their abuse, right?

omegbule• 8 years ago

A very real thing is that weed is a crutch for depression here in the states.

fhood5• 8 years ago

that was my first thought as well, but it is interesting that the addiction rate seems to double for those who started as a teenager. I guess it makes sense that changing chemical balances in the brain when it is growing that rapidly could easily cause dependencies.

badloginagain2• 8 years ago

There are studies that teens with a predisposition to schizophrenia and similar mental issues can actually be exacerbated by marijuana.

I haven't heard evidence of it doing the same for adults, but I'd have to check.

There are a number of reasons why children/teens shouldn't use it, and should be as tolerated a children smoking/drinking/opioid-ing

StanislavPetrov3• 8 years ago

Which speaks to the larger question, why are so many people in our society depressed?

monkeynotes• 8 years ago

Anxiety and depression go hand in hand. Modern life is hard on some people, fear of losing a job or making the next mortgage payment, or getting good grades, and so on can lead to anxiety in people who er toward flight rather than fight. This anxiety can trigger depression and then the horrible cycle begins.

anaptdemise• 8 years ago

Unsolicited life advice.

If you have to drink or do drugs to do your job, you should probably question your career path.

If you have to drink or do drugs to feel satisfied with your life, you should probably ask yourself what you have actually done to make your situation better.

Good for strippers, accountants, lawyers, anyone.

emodendroket3• 8 years ago

Perhaps that is the case, but what bothers me is that these arguments are often put forth as an argument for continuing to use the criminal justice system to address the problem.

StanislavPetrov3• 8 years ago

Not only that, but the fact that their is an extremely high correlation between those decrying the evils of the Devil's Tobacco and those who see nothing wrong with dosing tens of millions of people (including millions of small children) with powerful psychotropic drugs that have far more profound and less understood impacts on the human brain (especially the developing brain of a child) than marijuana.

DanBC8• 8 years ago

You can see a lot of public health campaigners who said "we shouldn't legalise until we have some form of treatment set up and we have agreement from sellers that they'll provide warnings".

And then some US states legalised, and they mostly don't have treatment and they mostly don't have any point of sale information about harm, and so those same people are asking why not.

emodendroket3• 8 years ago

OK, but, again, the main alternative being proposed is locking people up for smoking weed, which is a funny way of helping them.

sAbakumoff3• 8 years ago

C'mon, I smoke every day and still not addicted!

RIMR• 8 years ago

Here's a challenge.

Put all your stuff in a container, and put it on a shelf. Leave it there for a week, and don't use it.

Every time you think about opening the container, write it down. I bet you'll think about opening the container a LOT more than you think will.

Do you think you could make it to the end of the week? If not, you're addicted.

DanBC8• 8 years ago

That's a useful experiment, but that's not what people mean when they talk about cannabis addiction.

They mean that cannabis is having a profound harmful impact on the person's life, and the person cannot stop even though they recognise it's causing harm.

ovao• 8 years ago

How do you know?

anothergoogler• 8 years ago

I think parent was making a joke.

mediocrejoker• 8 years ago

In that entire article, the only definition of 'marijuana addiction' is a single sentence, and one that requires further clarification:

But in the public health and medical communities, it is a well-defined disorder that includes physical withdrawal symptoms, cravings and psychological dependence.

Does anyone know what the specific criteria are for diagnosis? The rest of the article seems to be quotes from various people stating without evidence "Yes, marijuana addiction is real"

I'm not saying it's not real, but nothing in this article provides any evidence that it is.

DanBC8• 8 years ago

Cannabis Use Disorder: https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/cannabis-use-disorder-d...

---begin quote---

According to the DSM-5, (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fifth edition) the criteria for Cannabis Use Disorder is as follows:

Use of cannabis for at least a one year period, with the presence of at least two of the following symptoms, accompanied by significant impairment of functioning and distress:

Difficulty containing use of cannabis- the drug is used in larger amounts and over a longer period than intended.

Repeated failed efforts to discontinue or reduce the amount of cannabis that is used

An inordinate amount of time is occupied acquiring, using, or recovering from the effects of cannabis.

Cravings or desires to use cannabis. This can include intrusive thoughts and images, and dreams about cannabis, or olfactory perceptions of the smell of cannabis, due to preoccupation with cannabis.

Continued use of cannabis despite adverse consequences from its use, such as criminal charges, ultimatums of abandonment from spouse/partner/friends, and poor productivity.

Other important activities in life, such as work, school, hygiene, and responsibility to family and friends are superseded by the desire to use cannabis.

Cannabis is used in contexts that are potentially dangerous, such as operating a motor vehicle.

Use of cannabis continues despite awareness of physical or psychological problems attributed to use- e.g., anergia, amotivation, chronic cough.

Tolerance to Cannabis, as defined by progressively larger amounts of cannabis are needed to obtain the psychoactive effect experienced when use first commenced, or, noticeably reduced effect of use of the same amount of cannabis

Withdrawal, defined as the typical withdrawal syndrome associate with cannabis, or cannabis or a similar substance is used to prevent withdrawal symptoms.

---end quote---

This is similar to substance misuse disorder.

https://www.verywellmind.com/dsm-5-criteria-for-substance-us...

---begin quote---

The DSM 5 recognizes substance-related disorders resulting from the use of 10 separate classes of drugs: alcohol; caffeine; cannabis; hallucinogens (phencyclidine or similarly acting arylcyclohexylamines, and other hallucinogens, such as LSD); inhalants; opioids; sedatives, hypnotics, or anxiolytics; stimulants (including amphetamine-type substances, cocaine, and other stimulants); tobacco; and other or unknown substances. Therefore, while some major groupings of psychoactive substances are specifically identified, the use of other or unknown substances can also form the basis of a substance-related or addictive disorder.

Substance use disorders span a wide variety of problems arising from substance use, and cover 11 different criteria:

Taking the substance in larger amounts or for longer than you're meant to.

Wanting to cut down or stop using the substance but not managing to.

Spending a lot of time getting, using, or recovering from use of the substance.

Cravings and urges to use the substance.

Not managing to do what you should at work, home, or school because of substance use.

Continuing to use, even when it causes problems in relationships.

Giving up important social, occupational, or recreational activities because of substance use.

Using substances again and again, even when it puts you in danger.

Continuing to use, even when you know you have a physical or psychological problem that could have been caused or made worse by the substance.

Needing more of the substance to get the effect you want (tolerance).

Development of withdrawal symptoms, which can be relieved by taking more of the substance.

---end quote---

evo_92• 8 years ago

It's hard for me to relate to this. I smoke daily, and probably what most would consider a lot. I however also travel for work and or other reasons and often go days or a week without smoking. It has no noticeable effect on me.

It could be because I'm extremely active and fit. I workout basically 7 days a week, mostly because I do a lot of intense stuff 'for fun' (aka, play hockey 3-4 days a week, etc).

I'm not saying it's not true, just pointing out this could be related to things beyond just pot. Aka, inactivity, perhaps an already down mental state, etc etc.

I also take a shit-ton of vitamins and sups, I'm about to turn 51 and I train hard and play hard because I'm often skating against high-level 18-20 year old's etc, so I'm quite driven to stay at the top of my game. Possible some of the vits/sups I take are offsetting whatever the pot is doing to others.

Diet, exercise, sleep - so many factors goes into feeling well. Addiction though, man that's a lot more extreme than I would label my desire for pot. I mean I certainly enjoy it and even sometimes wish I had some on a trip, but it's a passing though more than anything.

Update: one point I should note, I only smoke Sativa's, or sativa heavy hybrids. Not sure if that's a factor but thought I was worth noting.

tzar• 8 years ago

How long have you been smoking daily? From the article:

Unlike with opioids and stimulants, marijuana dependence tends to develop slowly: Months or years may pass before symptoms begin to affect a dependent user’s life.

The case is similar with alcohol dependence: it can take quite a long time.

fhood5• 8 years ago

I suspect once a day use isn't enough to cause serious dependency (for most people), so long as it isn't being used for self medication. I suspect physical dependency probably results from use as a teenager (when the brain is changing rapidly) or from near constant use, such that your body/brain begins to treat the chemical changes as a baseline and adjust for them.

evo_92• 8 years ago

I've been smoking daily, with the exception of travel breaks, since my early 20's and I'm about to turn 51.

Zooper• 8 years ago

It's also worth noting that this "Addiction" that takes so long to develop goes away in about 1-2 weeks.

jjulius• 8 years ago

So I originally wrote this post to respond to the user "havesmoked" who posted a similar comment in response to you to what I'm about to share. They deleted their post, but I figured I'd still post mine.

----

I also don't know why I'm posting this beyond sharing my anecdotal experience, lol.

I'm pretty much like you on this one. I've been smoking pot for about ten years now (I'm 31), and half of that I'd say has been fairly heavy usage, and for the last 2-3 years a single week for me has, on average, seen me consume: 1 eighth of flower, 50-100MG of edibles depending on weekend activities, and most of a .5G vape cartridge. That seems like a fucking outrageous amount of pot, but I've shown continuous growth professionally (worked all the way up to my current "Director" position) and I've never had a problem traveling and suddenly spending a week or two cold turkey.

Like you, I've always been cognizant of the fact that I could end up relying on it as a crutch, and have been wary of the fact that there's not much quality scientific data around marijuana to make me feel comfortable continuing this way. My wife and I are also at a point in our lives now where we'd like to start having children. We met with a doctor last week to discuss a few things, and the "marijuana lowers your sperm count" conversation that I was anticipating did certainly come up. I've known this time has been coming for a while and had no problem immediately cutting back as of last Thursday. It's been just over a week now of reducing my intake to just 4-5 hits per evening, late at night and shortly before bed so I don't get the urge to just keep smoking after I've started.

It's been incredibly easy to kick, I'm gonna save a boatload of cash, and I don't spend the day craving it. I appreciate the clearer head that I have, and the increased productivity I feel. But that doesn't mean it's easy for everyone, as I'm sure people use this as a crutch for a variety of reasons.

Edit: I think one of the things that has helped me keep my consumption reduced compared to other people in this thread (someone mentioning nearly an eight per day) has been my refusal to do dabs. Those are incredibly more potent and can really quickly kick your tolerance up a notch. I did one just once and it hit me so hard I immediately fell back and had to lean in place against a wall without moving for 20 minutes. I don't know how people can do that shit regularly.

hutzlibu3• 8 years ago

"I only smoke Sativa"

Devinitively a factor in my experience. Sativa usually makes more active, indica more stoned...

But it is also about personality.

I could not smoke everyday. There are times when I do, but that only works to a certain point and then I have to stop, or I would not do anything at all anymore.

Persons close to me actually smoked themself to death this way.

My main takeaway is, if my mind is thinking a lot about ganja, then it is too much. I like to do things. And quite some activitys can be improved being high, but it should be about the activitys, not the smoke. When the focus goes to smoking for the sake of smoking ... then it is wrong in my experience. But you seem to be doing it the right way...

myWindoonn• 8 years ago

The article says that this sort of heavy use can be measured in oz/wk, with 1-2 oz/wk being quite a lot. I am the heaviest cannabis consumer of my peers, and I barely consume a quarter oz/wk. It sounds like addicts are much heavier users!

On the other hand, tobacco smokers can be addicts at 1-2 cigs/day, but not necessarily chain-smoking 1-2 pks/day like the most-addicted smokers. Perhaps there's a continuum.

draw_down• 8 years ago

Whoa, I’m a heavy user with a high tolerance but an ounce would take more like a month to get through, not a week. 2 oz a week is just nuts.

pnloyd• 8 years ago

I know several people who are consuming mind boggling amounts like this. But I think at this point using the actual plant material is impractical as what they are doing is vaporizing extracted oil, aka "dabs".

I don't smoke anymore for practical reasons, but I have done one of these dabs in the past and it essentially incapacitated me to the point where I felt extremely uncomfortable and had to remain stationary for at least an hour unable to do anything at all.

My extreme THC consuming friends are doing something like 6-7 of these per evening and functioning fairly normally. This is what's mind boggling to me.

schrodinger• 8 years ago

Just wanted to chime in that I’m the same way. Smoke every night when at home, but I’ve just been out of the country for work for a week and actually didn’t even think about it once until reading this thread.

hunter23• 8 years ago

This is literally the most pseudoscience I've seen at the top of a HN post.

zepto2• 8 years ago

Presumably that lifestyle has also protected you from all the other 10% risks you haven’t fallen prey to yet?

zaroth• 8 years ago

“She told me to come back home. So I did,” Pohl said. “At the time, I wasn’t sure why she did that. I was still in that whole miserable phase, smoking at least an ounce of weed a week — two ounces on a good week.”

Yikes. You can do just fine on one gram a month at today’s potency. Two ounces a week is 8 grams a day.

pouta• 8 years ago

1 per month? As a daily smoker, how?

hsienmaneja11• 8 years ago

Physicians often have colloquially considered pot to not be a root cause for some patients, when it should be.

If a child starts self medicating with pot and then their life deteriorates along with their pot usage, there needs to be a focus on cessation of usage, particularly since the child’s brain is still developing.

This has nothing to do with addressing any other underlying issues that the child may be experiencing. Regardless, some people are best off staying away from pot entirely (as well as other substances that are not part of this discussion).

syntaxing• 8 years ago

Interesting. I always though that Marijuana is not as addicting because THC is stored in your fat. The THC gets slowly absorbed back into your system which lessens the withdrawals symptoms. I wonder if there is a threshold where your THC consumption far exceeds the maximum saturation of THC in your fat which make the person experience withdrawal symptoms similar to opioids.

merinowool4• 8 years ago

You can spot propaganda piece by the language they use. "Marijuana", "addiction"... 9% is nothing new and generally accepted value. Comparing to alcohol dependency, cannabis dependency has dramatically lower health risks and sometimes is actually beneficial (self medication)

zepto2• 8 years ago

You speak as though most people who take up cannabis are aware of a 10% risk of addiction. Perhaps this ‘generally accepted value’ should be added to the marijuana advertising just to make sure.

m0llusk• 8 years ago

Hacker News reading can be an especially pernicious and problematic addiction. Seriously, often in the startup world I find software engineers with TODO lists spanning space and time compulsively reading and scanning the HN front page. Oh, look: cannabis users addicted, dopamine rush. Altruistic punishment means an immediate boost to social status and opportunities for bonding. So who exactly is addicted to what again?

alex7o• 8 years ago

You know theoretically you can be addicted to anything, and sometimes one addiction can help with another one.

DanBC8• 8 years ago

Are you preoccupied by HN when you're doing something else? Do you seek HN when it's not available? Is using HN causing you harm but you continue to use it?

If you don't answer "yes" to each of these you're not "addicted" to HN.

neo4sure• 8 years ago

Can we have a comparison with alcohol addiction? This would give an insight into whether is a wider problem as with alcohol.

shamborambo• 8 years ago

Anything that downregulates neuroreceptors and reduces the production of a neurotransmitter will have a noticeable effect on the areas of the body where those receptors are prevalent, as well as the brain. Smoking cannabis reduces the production of anandamide, a naturally occurring endocannabinoid, and downregulates your CB receptors. Anandamide is being discovered to have essential roles in your endocrine system and many other systems. Cannabis addiction is very real, and can leave a heavy user hospitalized from the withdrawal effects. I have seen first hand heavy dab users being hospitalized with cannabis induced hyperemesis due to the lack of naturally produced anandamide and the downregulation of their cannabinoid receptors. Sure, the average or occasional user may be able to get by without severe side effects from their withdrawal, but with the ease of access we are finding people are smoking more cannabis then they ever have in the past. The mentality that the drug is safe leads to heavily increased use for those who quickly build tolerance. Sure the drug may not kill, but the physiological and psychological effects are not to be ignored.

chrisdhoover• 8 years ago

It is not.

nerdystoner• 8 years ago

Here is some of the latest science, an invited review from the Journal of Neuroimmune Pharmacology. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11481-018-9782-...

Here is a good quote from the discussion portion of this review:

<blockquote> As described in the Koob and Volkow model (2016), most drugs of abuse result in the hyperactivation of the mesocorticolimbic dopaminergic reward pathway in the binge-intoxication stage of addiction. This hyperactivation seems to be present in cannabis addiction but to a lower extent. Acute THC administration elicits striatal DA release in animals (Bloomfield et al. 2016) and THC challenges were shown to increase striatal DA transmission in humans (Stokes et al. 2010; Bossong et al. 2015); although other studies have found no THC-induced increases in striatal DA (Barkus et al. 2011; Urban et al. 2012). Additionally, there are no baseline differences in dopamine D2/D3 receptor availability between cannabis users and healthy controls (Volkow et al. 2014c; van de Giessen et al. 2017), a finding that does not parallel addiction to other drugs of abuse (including cocaine, alcohol, methamphetamine, nicotine, or heroin) which is associated with substantial reductions in D2R availability in the ventral striatum (Wang et al. 1997; Volkow et al. 2001, 2014c, 2017c; Martinez et al. 2012; Albrecht et al. 2013; Tomasi et al. 2015a; Wiers et al. 2016a; Ashok et al. 2017). Nonetheless, as with other drugs of abuse, chronic cannabis use still results in blunted dopamine reactivity to a stimulant challenge (Volkow et al. 2014c; van de Giessen et al. 2017). </blockquote>

furthermore (CUD = Cannabis Use Disorder):

<blockquote> Interestingly, chronic cannabis use is associated with a downregulation of CB1R – THC’s target receptor – that is restored after 4 weeks of abstinence in humans (Hirvonen et al. 2012). This pattern of abstinence-induced changes in target receptor density is also seen after abstinence from other drugs of abuse such as heroin, stimulants, and alcohol (in humans and animals) but with some caveats: the changes found are not consistent across brain regions for every drug and abstinence periods are not congruent between studies (Wang et al. 2012; Seip-Cammack et al. 2013; Ashok et al. 2017; Volkow et al. 2017c). Future studies should examine to whether changes in target receptors after abstinence are comparable across brain regions and if they follow the same time course in CUD and other SUD. </blockquote>

Basically, Cannabis is a little addictive, maybe, and abstinence makes most people somewhat cranky and sleepless for a few days.

Personally, I've been a constant consumer for 25+ years, vape all day and grow my own. Quit a week before leaving for a three week international vacation that I'm almost done with, because I was intrigued by the 4 weeks of abstinence quote above. Not much in the way of sleeplessness or crankiness. Plenty of weird dreams though. Just like all my usual abstaining vacations and visits home, which usually don't last a month. YMMV.

IMHO the real addiction is buying seeds. I think I have enough in my fridge to last me the rest of my life :-(

namlem• 8 years ago

I've been addicted to weed. Back in May I quit for a while and I had 2-3 days of withdrawal. It wasn't that bad overall, but I was grumpy and had no appetite for those few days. It's not accurate to say that cannabis is not physically addictive, even if it's much less so than opiates or alcohol.

goldfeld• 8 years ago

It's interesting to hear that the skyrocketing quality of weed is making things worse, or more difficult for hardcore users, I agree. Meanwhile in Rio where I've smoked for years, quality is plummeting and/or price of quality weed, a rare thing to come by, is skyrocketing as combined effects of ever-present prohibition and financial crisis rage on.

It comes as a blessing in disguise for many people I know who have smoked daily for years, myself included. Hearing about close friends toning down or quitting as well is encouraging in a reverse peer pressure kind of way. After 6 years I finally decided there's too much crap going into my lungs (where plant material is the pristine part of that) to keep a habit without excessive spending. I quit buying and so quit my daily smoking cold turkey without bigger issues. A good wave of life events helped a lot to focus elsewhere.

I wouldn't think about never smoking again and it still happens some times a week when friends have it. I'm starting to feel more confident again in buying just a few grams of greener stuff once or twice a month and try to make it last, using after heavy exercise for pain/recovery management and trying to share what little I've got with friends too. It's a different mindset now, away from the loner self-absorbed retreats from life I had been used to, I feel much better for it. Not any point in this post I guess, just an anecdote.

robdachshund5• 8 years ago

What's with these shitty anti drug articles all over HN? I just watched a bunch of armchair intellectuals argue over the ethics of ecigs, and now this.

MJ is not any more addictive than eating good food or jerking off. It's down to you and having good habits. If you don't have any self control, then anything that gives you a dopamine boost is going to give you problems.

Marijuana addiction is real, and rising

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