Tesla Tells New Taxi, Uber Drivers Not to Use Its Superchargers

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-15/tesla-tells-new-taxi-uber-drivers-not-to-use-its-superchargers

by fmihaila • 9 years ago

125 113 9 years ago

Harelin• 9 years ago

I'm reminded of the Tesloop episode of 'The Pitch' podcast. "Haydn Sonnad pitches his plan to revolutionize regional transit on the back of Tesla’s electric charging network." https://gimletmedia.com/episode/11-tesloop/

KallDrexx• 9 years ago

Hah first thing that came to my mind too.

hackcrafter2• 9 years ago

They called him on this potentially happening too during the pitch.

I hope they bought all the Teslas they need!

greglindahl16• 9 years ago

I think the average owner hopes that they didn't.

Although there's a new 40-stall supercharger between Vegas and LA, so Tesloop probably isn't significantly harming the system at this point.

kirillzubovsky• 9 years ago

Can you still mine BTC from the trunk, so long as you do it solely for your own purposes?

Jagat• 9 years ago

Yes https://electrek.co/2017/11/29/tesla-mining-bitcoin-model-s-...

greglindahl16• 9 years ago

Note that an unmodified Tesla allows you to draw 120 watts from the cigarette lighter, not 2,800 like the claim in the article. Which likely false. Fun article, I see you clicked on it.

dba7dba• 9 years ago

Oh no Bjorn, what is he going to do?

fmihaila• 9 years ago

The wording in the article's first paragraph can almost be read as if the policy applied to all Tesla cars used commercially, but the actual announcement is more clear:

This Policy applies to all Superchargers worldwide and all Tesla vehicles purchased, either new or used, whether from Tesla or a third party, after December 15, 2017.

https://www.tesla.com/about/legal?#supercharger-fair-use

I updated the title accordingly.

moonka• 9 years ago

I understand changing the policy for new sales going forward, but changing it unilaterally from used sales seems wrong.

hackcrafter2• 9 years ago

But it does prevent a business trying to run off of free supercharger power from just buying up used Teslas...

greglindahl16• 9 years ago

Some Tesla features are written into contracts and some are not. For example, Tesla is not charging anyone for cellphone service for the car. That's not written into the contract, but they kinda have to provide it for free: they need access to vehicle logs for roadside service, and the car needs software updates for safety reasons.

As an owner, I have absolutely no idea what the contract ever said about supercharging. I also know that this change doesn't affect me, other than making it more likely that I can supercharge without waiting.

glenstein• 9 years ago

Maybe this is a dumb question, but why not just charge commercial users more instead?

refurb• 9 years ago

Capacity. It doesn't do Tesla any good if they charge commercial users, they pay and block all the super chargers 24/7.

loeg3• 9 years ago

Your hypothetical scenario sounds like they just aren't charging enough.

xoa• 9 years ago

Just my speculation, but from the article and Tesla's announcement, it looks like this is an availability thing given Tesla's current scale, not a cost thing per se. Ie., they're not worried that commercial users are consuming too much electricity or anything like that, rather the limited resource in question is the actual number of physical spots at a supercharger area, which is a hard thing to scale quickly. Eventually we can expect that electrical car infrastructure will become sufficiently ubiquitous that it won't be an issue, but for now in a still relatively early bootstrapping stage of things I presume that Tesla is concerned that their customers feel as little anxiety or charging irritation as possible. Tesla is most interested in raw numbers of customers (necessary for efficiencies of scale) rather then how hard each customer is using the car, so they want superchargers build out optimized for serving the maximum number of customers regardless of price.

You're right that maybe long term they could set up more to serve commercial capacity on the back of higher commercial prices, but particularly in metro areas acquiring land, permits, and so forth and building physical infrastructure isn't quick.

chairmanwow• 9 years ago

Thanks for the great analysis.

_ea1k• 9 years ago

I get the feeling that they don't want to charge different rates to different customers (for some marketing related reason, perhaps?) and that they also want to minimize costs for non-commercial customers that are buying their costs (subsidize your complements?).

jasonjei2• 9 years ago

How will Tesla enforce this policy? Tracking vehicle usage data, looking for lots of short trip patterns? Looking for rideshare decals (drivers would be wise to use removable decals)? Asking Uber/Lyft to share VIN numbers of registered cars?

ams61102• 9 years ago

Looking for cars with Uber placards parked at superchargers?

jasonjei2• 9 years ago

What if the placards are removable?

tytytytytytytyt• 9 years ago

Why bother if you have access to vehicle and supercharging data?

gruez• 9 years ago

do all uber/lyft cars have identifying features? i thought those were optional.

zeep• 9 years ago

If you are looking for Uber drivers, your Tesla car could probably list cellphones that took a ride in itself by detecting wireless signals?

If X cellphones detected in Y amount of time, it might be suspect...

nikanj3• 9 years ago

Just suspect cars that do more than x hours of driving per day, averaged over a long-ish period. Very, very few people do personal driving for tens of hours per week

ajross2• 9 years ago

"Expecting people to follow the rules."

This works better than you'd think.

raverbashing• 9 years ago

Ok so I pull up and start charging my Tesla, then what?

r00fus• 9 years ago

We know Tesla has extensive data. They know how much you charge and which vehicles observe a pattern that indicates commercial usage.

They could probably tell with a 2-sigma confidence rate and simply offer concessions to those improperly flagged.

Matheus282• 9 years ago

Funny thing is that during the initial handshake with the supercharger, it doesn't even check if the VIN the car provides is a Tesla VIN. It's only used for logging purposes and it'll still provide charge anyway.

(You can test this by tapping into the CAN bus while the car is being plugged in. This was true at least a few months ago)

greglindahl16• 9 years ago

What's that usual disclosure statement for mutual funds? Past performance does not guarantee future returns.

I totally believe you, but that doesn't mean that won't change.

jondwillis• 9 years ago

How will they enforce this for rideshare drivers?

lafar6502• 9 years ago

And the reality is back, teaching the maths

paul7986• 9 years ago

An Uber driver can afford a Tesla??

nobodyshere2• 9 years ago

They can and they do. I talked to an Uber driver with a model s in Amsterdam. Leases it with his brother for about €1600 per month and still makes profit.

t0mas88• 9 years ago

There are Tesla Ubers/taxis all over Amsterdam. It's a tax thing, a typical Mercedes taxi would also cost 1200 / month and then much more in fuel than the Tesla.

greglindahl16• 9 years ago

Yes. A Silicon Valley friend of mine with a Tesla drove Uber for a while because he was between jobs ("camping") and was curious about Uber's business. He's not the only one. Also, I believe that Uber now counts Teslas as limos for the Uber Black service.

TomMarius3• 9 years ago

If they're black though. This black rule can lead to funny situations - one time a silver brand new Merceses S-Klasse came to pick me up for the Pop price.

marklyon• 9 years ago

I must say, the drivers who use their Tesla as an Uber do a hell of a job of representing the company and making the brand accessible.

I am not fully ready to purchase a car and don’t want to deal with a sales pitch, but got a great overview of the S and X from two different drivers on trips. I got to touch and play with the car. I got real feedback from people who spend far more time in the car than I ever will. Both left me with a positive impression and, as a result, I’ll likely seriously consider a Tesla when I am ready to buy a vehicle.

greglindahl16• 9 years ago

Almost all of those drivers don't supercharge all the time.

dingo_bat• 9 years ago

Isn't that the case with any car though?

wslh• 9 years ago

I assume the chance of experiencing a Tesla is much lower.

Strom• 9 years ago

Anecdotal but the only Uber/taxi driver who has ever started giving me an unsolicited tour of their car was a Tesla S owner.

techsupporter• 9 years ago

I really hope Tesla is successful at beefing up its supercharger network. If the proper phrase is "I have no dog in this hunt," I extend the analogy to "because I have a cat."

As an occasional driver of a Nissan Leaf in Puget Sound, the (in my observation) massive uptick in Tesla cars up here has really put a strain on the relatively tiny DC quick-charge network. Where that car can be in and out of a CHAdeMO station in 25-35 minutes, Tesla cars seem to occupy it for two hours. Presumably, and I'm just guessing, this is because a CHAdeMO station is to a Tesla what a 240V level 2 charger is to a Leaf. If I drive to a particular Eastside shopping center, I'd better hope I plan to be there for at least two hours because there's no chance of ever seeing an unoccupied one of the quick chargers there.

Either way, that's why I hope that either Tesla gets its superchargers more widely deployed or that some company takes the hint and builds more DC quick chargers. (Preferably more reliable ones, too, while I'm wishing for ponies. The one at the Lake City Fred Meyer seems to only have two states, occupied or broken.)

CiaranMcNulty• 9 years ago

Leaf battery is 30kWh and even the smallest Teslas are double that (60kWh), most are triple (90kWh until recently was the largest).

Assuming they can all draw the same current it makes sense that teslas are lingering for 2-3 times longer.

The new 40kWh Leaf 2.0 offers similar range to the 60kWh Tesla, for comparison. Presumably this is due to weight etc.

speedplane• 9 years ago

My hope: Tesla succeeds at making real things and has a stock valuation that accurately reflects their intrinsic value while providing sufficient support to fund new ventures.

Is that too much to ask?

plg2• 9 years ago

How do they know whether you use it commercially or personally? I think I know the answer and it's disconcerting.

nikanj3• 9 years ago

Send you a friendly letter if miles per week exceed a treshold?

plg2• 9 years ago

What if I don’t want them to track me.

Shivetya• 9 years ago

this kind of retroactive changes to their policies with regards to supercharges can end up biting them in the butt. it demonstrates that they consider nearly all promises changeable.

though when the III becomes widely available I fully expect a whole host of other issues come about and some segments of their user base to demand exclusions for those they think make unfair use of the chargers.

having been disconnected from a public charger by another EV owner who flat out told me i did not drive a real EV (its a Volt) I have found there are some real entitled thinking people driving these days

supergirl3• 9 years ago

“We may also take additional action to protect the availability of Superchargers for their intended purpose, such as limiting or blocking your vehicle’s ability to use Supercharger stations.”

say what. is it well known that tesla can brick your car whenever they feel like it?

B1FF_PSUVM• 9 years ago

They have root and a comm line, they can.

Same with Amazon taking back Kindle books a few years ago.

Also your smartphone. Not yours.

Nowadays "buy" means "rent". Pick a landlord.

supergirl3• 9 years ago

somehow it feels way bigger deal if my car is bricked.

Tesla Tells New Taxi, Uber Drivers Not to Use Its Superchargers

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