DHS proposes to repeal Work Authorization to Spouses(H4) of H1B visa holders

https://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201710&RIN=1615-AC15

by nikhilalmeida • 9 years ago

77 79 9 years ago

reginfo.gov

mbroncano• 9 years ago

Why aren't they allowed to work in the first place? L2 visas are, and they're quite similar in intent.

cylinder4• 9 years ago

L1 is limited to managers, executives or specialized knowledge workers. It's not a low bar.

xyzzyz2• 9 years ago

Most software engineers would qualify for L1. One of the other requirements of L1 is that you need to spend a year in the company office outside of the US. During that year, you will learn some of the internal processes and technology used inside the company, which then will count as specialized knowledge.

btbuilder• 9 years ago

I know several software engineers who qualified for L1B (rather than L1A) after one year of working for foreign subsidiaries of US companies.

One person was able to transfer to the US after 6 months due to L1 blanket status of the US company. This just requires presenting a form to a consulate and does not require an individual petition to be filed with USCIS first.

int_19h2• 9 years ago

Because US immigration laws have been written in an ad-hoc manner over a long time period, and are very inconsistent as a result.

beedogs• 9 years ago

America's government is as cruel as it can possibly be lately. This is just punitive and disgusting.

hcknwscommenter2• 9 years ago

It is both punitive and disgusting, and it benefits no one.

marchenko• 9 years ago

I think it is meant to benefit US mid-tier tech workers, who are expected to experience less competition and downward wage pressure as the attractiveness (and even feasibility) of work in the US is substantially decreased for couples not consisting of at least one 'superstar' (persons earning well over $100k as an individual, or couples in which both members are earners at the top end of the ability distribution). I guess we'll see if that expectation bears out, of if companies respond by offshoring.

hiram1122• 9 years ago

Except for the US citizens who now might have a job or even a bit of wage growth after 30 years of non-stop immigration from mostly low wage countries, with the ensuing wage arbitrage used by US businesses.

bborud2• 9 years ago

For me as a European this is really simple: foreigners are not welcome in the US so I won't bother the US with my presence.

If I'm going to be selfish: the US establishing itself as a politically unstable and inconsistent country means more opportunities closer to where I live. More talent staying in Europe, more talent attracted to Europe.

If I were American I would worry about important talent pools now finding more opportunities in Asia.

tehlike4• 9 years ago

Definitely, but there is something about western life that attracts people, too.

tehlike4• 9 years ago

For a long time h1b spouses werent even eligible for work, i think this brings it back. Cruel? Yes, but situation wasnt different just 2 yrs ago

thisisit2• 9 years ago

DHS anticipates that there would be two primary impacts that DHS can estimate: the cost-savings accruing to forgone future filings by H-4 spouses, and labor turnover costs that employers of H-4 workers could incur.

Does anyone know what cost savings are they talking about?

duskwuff3• 9 years ago

Cost savings by the DHS by not having to process H4 applications.

thisisit2• 9 years ago

How does DHS save money by not processing these visas? Additionally what about the second cost saving?

product504• 9 years ago

They could have just charged a higher fees to process the applications if this was truly about cost.

cylinder4• 9 years ago

Wrong, USCIS is funded by filing fees.

NTDF93• 9 years ago

First, they put everyone who are not like them at a disadvantage

- Poor funding for some school districts

- Lack of accessible transportation options for folks in far flung areas

- Lack of funding for individuals to go to college/expensive education

- In this case, damaging careers, families and not letting people work at all, akin to slavery.

Then, they come out and say:

- Why don't you work hard?

- Why don't you get a job?

- Why don't you save money?

- Why aren't you more like us?

Why aren't they more like you? Because you don't let them be like you.

America is cruel!

cylinder4• 9 years ago

If this was such a cruel experience, the workers wouldn't be here and the H1B wouldn't be over subscribed.

NTDF93• 9 years ago

Do you live in chronological time?

The rights were given to them, that's when a lot of spouses gave up their careers elsewhere to build a family life here.

Now, like a video game, the rights are being yanked away. What are they supposed to do? Leave kids here and go back try to rebuild a life without family? Take everyone with them and try to readjust?

Imagine being lured into college with funding and after 2 years, they just yank that funding away, leaving you hapless. What do you do then?

nopinsight• 9 years ago

If enacted, more R&D tech centers might pop up in other countries, esp Canada. The demand for high-level global tech talent is strong enough that most of them would not put up with much and companies will be forced to adapt.

cylinder4• 9 years ago

High level global talent does not make up the bulk of H1B.

jopsen• 9 years ago

But H1B might make up a significant bulk of the high level talent...

product504• 9 years ago

This is a really cruel move. It honestly only affects a small population of spouses from Indian and Chinese immigrants who have to wait a long time for their green card application to go through (due to per country quotas). The reason why spouses of H1-B immigrants can't find jobs on their own, even when qualified, is because of H1 quotas which fill on the first day of application - and, if they aren't lucky to get it, they are just stuck. Also very few companies want to wait for 6+ months from the time the job has been accepted to when the candidate starts given H1 application needs to be filed on April 1st while the person can only start working on October 1st (if they are lucky to make through the quota). H4 EAD provided a way for them to be employed and do something with their life. With this repeal, that option will be taken away.

On the other hand, Trump is doing a few things to alleviate the situation:

1. He will likely strike down hard against Indian IT companies which take more than half of H1 visa quotas. That should help spouses, who are qualified, to have a better shot at getting an H1.

2. He is proposing a merit based GC going forward vs. the current system where there are country quotas and where family applications take priority.

Both these will help. However, I would have liked to see these happening first vs. H4-EAD taken away.

rhizome• 9 years ago

He will likely strike down hard against Indian IT companies which take more than half of H1 visa quotas

Is there any indication that any of these or their domestic representatives donated to Trump's campaign? I'd search but I don't know any names. Seems like a gravy train the companies would be attentive to maintaining, though.

product504• 9 years ago

I think he will likely increase the minimum salary bar for IT professionals to qualify for H1 from the current $60k to potentially over $100k. That will wreck a lot Indian IT companies business models where currently it is a price arbitrage game.

int_19h2• 9 years ago

The merit-based proposal that I've seen last time around had very high bars; much higher than Canada, say. I would dare say that most H1Bs would be worse off under it, in that they wouldn't be able to secure the visa at all.

thriftwy• 9 years ago

So you are suggesting some of H1B slots will stay empty?

If they're not, what's the problem? The best performers still got their visas, and USA got the top talent.

briandear• 9 years ago

Let’s get something straight: H1B is not an immigrant visa. It’s a temporary work visa. So the idea of “H1B Immigrants” is wrong and represents an abuse of the program. Someone who intends to immigrate ought not be using the H1B.

Really there should be no path to a green card for H1Bs.. that is against the purpose of that visa. Get an EB3 if you intend to immigrate.

loeber• 9 years ago

You say "let's get something straight" but follow up with blatant misinformation.

Directly from wikipedia:

"Even though the H-1B visa is a non-immigrant visa, it is one of the few temporary visa categories recognized as dual intent, meaning an H-1B holder can have legal immigration intent (apply for and obtain the green card) while still a holder of the H-1B visa. Effectively, the requirement to maintain a foreign address for this non-immigrant classification was removed in the Immigration Act of 1990."

impish19• 9 years ago

It's extremely irresponsible of you to suggest that H1B holders are abusing the program by intending to immigrate because...

a) As pointed out by the comment earlier, H1B holders can have dual intent: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/About%20Us/E...

b) Structuring of EB2/3 queues according to the birthplace of the applicant itself is more abusive than most things to do with immigration to the US.

emodendroket2• 9 years ago

I don't see making it harder to bring over family members as a really positive move. It's difficult already.

panic2• 9 years ago

The DHS as an organization should be disbanded. It barely made sense when it was founded after 9/11, but now it's actively working against America's interests. Our borders and immigration rules are so unpleasant, people would rather work in other countries than deal with them even a few times a year.

pjc50• 9 years ago

That's definitely working as designed. There's enough hostility to "immigrants" from voters that the system is deliberately made as hostile as possible. Same for the UK system.

TheAdamAndChe4• 9 years ago

Given that wages are a function of supply and demand, and given that wages have been stagnant for Americans since the 70's, why is having tighter constraints on the supply of labor a bad thing?

Wouldn't this mean that Americans would have higher wages? Wouldn't a tight labor market incentivize investment in the growth of our own workers instead of working to maximize profits for corporations that already have historic profits by deleveraging workers?

panic2• 9 years ago

Well, yes, based on a simple supply-and-demand model, that is what we'd expect to see. It's not what we're seeing in practice, though. We keep making immigration harder and harder, and it doesn't seem to be doing much to fix our economy -- certainly not enough to justify the real human cost.

sawmurai2• 9 years ago

Well, just in case you might need this soon ... Switzerland ist beautiful!

https://www.jobs.ch/en/vacancies/information-technology-tele...

jmnicolas• 9 years ago

If you can speak German that is ...

xyzzyz2• 9 years ago

Or actually, Swiss German. Most people in Germany don't even understand Swiss German.

acoster• 9 years ago

There are French and Italian speaking regions too (well, there's Romansh, but that's tiny).

But in all seriousness, in the main cities you can get by speaking English.

sawmurai2• 9 years ago

While speaking either German, French or Italian certainly helps english is more than enough in most jobs. In IT most stuff we read / discuss online is in english anyway.

c2h5oh• 9 years ago

That means I'll be refusing all non-remote US job offers without reading.

softawre• 9 years ago

Not trying to be rude but, isn't this their goal?

darkdreams2• 9 years ago

The E-3 visa (meant for Australians) doesn't have any work restrictions on spouses. Why isn't the administration targeting those visas/ead if this is indeed about "Hire American and buy American" ?

falsedan4• 9 years ago

The quota for E-3s is 10,000/year, it gets about 30% subscribed (with new applications, renewals aren't capped), and it's providing the free and open movement of labour that the AU-US FTA requires.

but also: white Australians don't trigger racist reactions & clamping down on all Australian E-3 immigrants would not be as effect of a dogwhistle.

hiram1122• 9 years ago

Is it really that Americans are just not racist against Australian workers , but are racist towards brown people on work visas?

Or could it be something else?

Maybe Americans don't tend to see their whole IT and Dev departments being filled with Australians, who are NOT willing to work in high COL areas on $60k year, share apartments and a car among 6 adults, and work 60 hours a week since the money they're saving won't buy them squat once home in Australia.

This is not true for Indians and others from low wage nations.

Most Americans aren't stupid. They know that businesses here use these visas to push down wages and working conditions. Considering this, I think Americans have been pretty damn friendly to most foreign workers for quite some time.

But eventually, even the most friendly of societies is going to say enough is enough.

grad_ml4• 9 years ago

Not but also, but only. Here is the thing, spouses of h1b can only work after getting I-140. For most of the indians, when they are legit, it will take 2-4 years after they start working on fresh h1b to get I-140. For non Indians, they will mostly have green card by then, so for them, all good. for 85,000 (h1b per year) 0.7(70% indians) 3 (years) * 0.5( 50% i-140 approval), families would would be forced to live on single income.

peg_leg• 9 years ago

Because the administration is targeting Obama era rules. It's a government of vindiction. There is no other logic

somberi• 9 years ago

https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21716630-not-go...

For engineers like me who went to the US in the mid-90s on H1B, spouses were not allowed to work. The US government changed it, to be in sync with other countries that allowed American employees' spouses work in the host countries.

This new move will have an effect on the spouses of American workers abroad, since host countries will retaliate as a mark of protest.

d--b• 9 years ago

Oh man, I went through the H1B/H4 in 2010 and my wife was unable to work. That was a pain in the ass...

walshemj2• 9 years ago

This will effect the really high level very high skill immigrants who tend to have highly qualified partners who might well stop their partner from taking a job in the USA.

I know of one CTO who came back to UK from SV because of pressure from his wife

grad_ml4• 9 years ago

Message is loud and clear. No Indians are welcome. Now indians on h1b need to figure out, if they will migrate to Canada with skills they have, will they start business in India. Govt have no intentions of improving GC process. Govt want to stop legal immigration under different disguises. I don't know how many people are aware that it takes 3-4 years to get I-120, after some one starts job on H1b. That means all H1b's, who have been here for 3+ years need to go back or become poor in USA.

rvelag• 9 years ago

Good to hear to revoke H4 EAD. Make it ASAP. At least prioritize for Talented one's. Not for these douchebag H4 EADs. Thank you Trump.

markruno• 9 years ago

I have done masters in US and I am on h1b visa I get 30k$ PA working as developer in java technology and my spouse on h4 visa gets 40k $ PA .If h4 visa is revoked is it better to apply for h1b visa or f1 visa.

DHS proposes to repeal Work Authorization to Spouses(H4) of H1B visa holders

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