Ask HN: Can programming be learnt completely on smartphone?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14530718

by TheRealmccoy • 9 years ago

24 73 9 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I have enrolled for two EdX courses which involves programming in R and Python.

I am little conversant with Linux environment and have installed GNUDebianRoot app from play store.

Is it possible to complete the courses on only mobile? I am being able to do almost everything right now, which a desktop can perform.

The phone has 2GB RAM and screen size is 5".

devcamcar• 9 years ago

No.

rileytg2• 9 years ago

no good editors

rileytg2• 9 years ago

i really wish you could

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

:-) same here. let's see how far I go.

nanomonkey• 9 years ago

You can run emacs under termux on Android. I use this as a mobile platform with a bluetooth keyboard.

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

thanks so ever much, I would try Termux, though I would like to stick with VIM which I have currently installed. I want to be comfortable with it first and then may be take on Emacs

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

I have installed VIM and using it

theparanoid• 9 years ago

I programmed on a TI-89 calculator, so it's possible. But not for passing classes.

slang8002• 9 years ago

TI can't run R or Python, at least the last time I checked... Maybe someone really clever has ported it.

dhoe• 9 years ago

Absolutely. It's not really convenient, but it's possible. One thing I'd look at is if you can connect a USB keyboard, as that would make a much nicer experience.

lytedev• 9 years ago

Ehh... Sure. It CAN be learned, but just because you can doesn't mean you should. Everything about the process will be... Just difficult. Tedious.

Don't do it.

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

it's an experiment in pedagogy and then in myself, I want to see how far I can go and learn both about pedagogy and programming.

pedagogical approach for mobile has to be completely different than the classroom ones, and that's what I am after.

Mathnerd3142• 9 years ago

Probably, yes; the first programmers did not even have keyboards or screens, but rather swapped out the relays manually and checked their voltmeters. But what is the point? You will not be able to complete the exercises as quickly and it will be a pain to download and configure all the software.

You can get a cheap Chromebook for $200, stick Ubuntu on it (https://www.lifewire.com/install-linux-on-chromebook-4125253), and finish both those EdX courses, probably before you can even get R and Python running on your phone. Plus you will be more motivated to finish the courses, having spent $200 and therefore proven your commitment.

If even $200 is too much, I guess you have to ask what you're doing with your life... maybe getting a stable job should take priority.

JohnnyConatus• 9 years ago

Umm...$200 is a lot of money in many parts of the world. You never know who you might be responding to.

Mathnerd3142• 9 years ago

Smartphones and computers are at pretty comparable prices everywhere I've checked; since he owns an (Android) phone laptops can't be that far out of reach.

michaelmrose• 9 years ago

I have a 10 year old laptop I found at a thrift store for $15 which is both faster than his phone and infinitely more suitable for programming.

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

absolutely, it is huge sum of money, almost a year's living expenses for millions of families (I riterate the word, family)

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

this is an experiment in pedagogy and mobile learning. mobile learning is supposed to be huge, but does it work?

also, while I could buy a Chromebook definitely, hundreds of millions of people are not as much previleged as myself, but so many of them would have this burning desire to build something new, to learn programming. can they do it?

safek• 9 years ago

Have you considered using a Chromebook? It costs $150 and runs Ubuntu.

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

this is an experiment in mobile learning and pedagogy. hundreds of millions of people have only a smart-phone as a computer.

cheeze• 9 years ago

You can learn how to program from books. Phone should be no problem either.

But it is going to be much, much harder to learn how to program anything with any decent level of complexity. Writing everything in a single file? Sure. Writing a java app which has 20 classes? Sounds like hell.

And while linux terminal isn't really programming, sending key combos like ^d sounds terrible on a phone keyboard.

Something else that PCs are much better at is context switching. Being able to alt+tab to documentation, or having that documentation on another monitor would be way better than having to switch back and forth. Although that can be remedied somewhat by using a book as a reference.

Something as simple as typing a constant in Java becomes much more difficult on a phone

private static final SOME_RANDOM_VARIABLE = RandomVariableFactory.getRandomVariable();

is not easy to write on most phone keyboards.

I think the biggest area that you'll struggle is that there isn't really any good IDE, or even editor out there.

I watch videos all the time on my phone which help me with programming. Those are easy. It's the actual doing and writing the code that will be a PITA on a phone.

May I ask why you're trying to program on a smartphone rather than picking up something like a cheap netbook?

Cheers!

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

For past 12 months or so, I have been dwelling into whether learning is possible on mobile or not. Of those 7 I worked free of cost for an Edtech startup, which was providing learning on mobile. My quest is still not solved. In a world which is so much in flux right now, many people run for their lives, with nothing else but their wallet and mobile,when something disastrous is happening around them. They have nothing else, probably but a mobile to rebuild their lives. This is an experiment in that regard.

mrfregg3• 9 years ago

sending key combos like ^d sounds terrible on a phone keyboard.

Terminal apps like termux supplement the phone keyboard with a pane atop it with tab,ctrl,pipe buttons. Should be usable.

there isn't really any good IDE, or even editor out there.

Vim and others are available as packages in gnuroot, etc. A shell and editor split with tmux should work.

Still very uncomfortable programming on a phone ofcourse.

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

This is about learning how to program solely on an android phone.

the assignment i believe would not require typing very long and complex programs and may be if they do, i would try to do it in batches.

Once a person has learnt programming on a smartphone, she could graduate to work on an actual laptop or desktop.

But this is an experiment or a research project kind of thing, and it is too early to count the chickens.

slang8002• 9 years ago

You can probably read all the content of the courses on your phone and even run a basic Python/R interpreter on it, but no. Phone keyboards suck for programming and there are a ton of programs you can't run on a phone (like RStudio or Python IDEs).

Just get a cheap desktop and keyboard on Craigslist. I've found ones for as little as 20USD. Or you might be able to use a Raspberry Pi, if you're into that.

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

yes IDEs are not possible. I found one for Python called QPython but not sure how it is. After using some of the desktop IDEs, not sure whether to call it by same name.

ethereal_int• 9 years ago

Since you're using python and R I'm gonna throw Jupyter (used to be called ipython) into the mix (I'm using it half the time on desktop anyway because notebooks format everything so beautifully). You might also want to install Hacker's Keyboard from the play store so you have access to shift/enter/ctrl, and while I havent personally used it on a phone it should work fine. Here is a random tutorial link http://bretahajek.com/2016/12/jupyter-notebook-opencv-androi...

And using termux+vim is definitely an IDE, but has a pretty damn steep learning curve.

gpm• 9 years ago

Not practically.

If you hooked up a keyboard, used emacs or vim as an editor, you would likely be able to program enough to pass a intro to programming course (with significantly more difficulty than anyone on a computer). In theory you could do a fair bit of development work on your phone, but in practice it would be far too much friction to develop any real (i.e. more complex than intro to programming assignments) software.

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

the objective is same, is someone learn enough on a mobile to either get an entry level job or may be showcase his skill to someone who could get that person a laptop.

hundreds of millions of people have only a smart-phone as a computer.

tomjuggler• 9 years ago

Did you mean GNURootDebian? Don't know about R but I have learned a lot of C using the Termux app, I know python is supported. With Termux you are limited to a terminal, but personally I have never been able to see emulated Linux desktop on a phone correctly... Of course if your course includes gui programming you need full desktop. I would recommend getting an external keyboard for programming, or at least the hackers keyboard app.

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

Yes it is GNURootDebian.

I would definitely try out Termux, thanks so ever much!

rl32• 9 years ago

I've written small snippets of code from my phone before, but it's usually either testing specific language syntax, or making minor tweaks to existing code in situations where I'm either learning a new language, or dealing with weird edge cases.

For full-blown development, it's not really suitable. Your phone is best used for reading technical material and watching video content.

Even if you can program on mobile, it's going to be painful. Perhaps less so with an external keyboard and SSH into a cheapo VPS instance, but you're still going to take a substantial productivity hit.

May I ask why you're going this route?

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

this is an experiment to see how conducive mobile is for learning.also hundred if millions of people around the world have a Smartphone as their only computer. is it possible for them to learn programming and make themselves better due to it?

rl32• 9 years ago

That's a relief. I was really hoping the reason wasn't cost due to some unfortunate circumstance. :)

For what it's worth, there's quite a few apps that teach programming or serve as reference. Some of them can run live code inline.

xparadigm• 9 years ago

Yes. My younger brother did learn programming in a phone. He started in Nokia 2700 Classic, which is not even a smartphone. Then he took a Samsung which runs Android. He certainly didn't become an expert using those devices. But he learnt the basics of Python.

One thing to note probably is, he started very young. And in young ages people can learn very easily. I don't think I can learn programming in a smartphone in my current age. But for kids, whole different game.

NegativeLatency• 9 years ago

I learned on a TI-83. Compared to that a phone doesn't seem so bad.

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

that's what this experiment is all about, kids are so much in Smartphone these days, can they actually learn something worthwhile with it?

tpaschalis• 9 years ago

Go for it! Adding a USB keyboard would be immensely helpful.

Seeing that you have access to the internet I would second @rl3's suggestion about trying a (free or cheap) VPS service and SSHing to the machine, especially for snapshots, networking and better performance.

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

yes, that's the next step. thanks so ever much!

sovlex• 9 years ago

Never tried it myself but you could possibly write on the phone and find free cloud service (like openshift.com) to test and debug.

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

thanks so ever much, I would try openshift.com

jackyinger• 9 years ago

It is probably possible if you are persistent. There are some online dev environments like js fiddle.

Also, if you can afford a vm in the cloud you could probably get an ssh client for your phone to log into it.

If you hook a Bluetooth keyboard to the phone you might just be able to really pull it off.

Edit; good luck :)

kzahel• 9 years ago

Use termux (termux.com) and then you can apt install many useful things (https://github.com/termux/termux-packages/tree/master/packag...)

You'll definitely want a keyboard

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

Thanks ! not using keyboard is intentional and deliberate.

mrfregg3• 9 years ago

Be sure to use tmux. The tmux package in termux allows you to resize panes and switch windows by tapping instead of using the usual key combinations.

devross• 9 years ago

I think it could work, but learning a programing language completely on smartphone is suck in a way in the past, the now the situation changed, you know the latest Android version -- Android O, which allow user to split App cards, and we can also use bluetooth keyboard to code(I did it when I was learning my first language before owning my first PC a year ago).

mandeepj• 9 years ago

You can buy a low price physical keyboard for your phone to make it easy to type

tinyrick2• 9 years ago

The question should be "how effective is it" not whether you can or not. Sure you can read a lot of programming resources using your phone and perhaps even write and run some programs, but it would not be as effective as practicing it on computer.

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

yes to most extent it won't be. this is an experiment in pedagogy also, where I would like to see, if someone is really driven and resources are under constraints, can he do it?

Can passion overcome constraints?

marcell• 9 years ago

Can you play tennis with chopsticks? Sure but it will be terrible.

Your phone is a terrible way to program...you will type 20x slower and see 10x less than a real screen. And you won't be able to quickly switch tabs, search Google, etc.

Just get a cheap laptop.

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

yes, absolutely true.

justboxing• 9 years ago

And you won't be able to quickly switch tabs, search Google, etc

Also won't be able to debug responsive web apps, setup break points in chrome or firefox debugger etc etc. Will be quite a nightmare doing this on a smart phone, even if you have a bluetooth keyboard to speed up the typing...

mrfregg3• 9 years ago

One can however quickly switch between a browser and terminal/chroot app though. So googling can be done.

vivekd• 9 years ago

If you are looking to learn python on the smartphone SoloLearn has a great free app that can give you enough to get started. It also has sample programs you can run in a simulated python programming environment so you can get your hands dirty. I highly recommend it.

I just checked out the edx website now (never heard of it till now) but some of their courses look interesting, might check them out.

I doubt either SoloLearn or edx can make you a python or r master, but if you want to program in python, going over them + a few other tutorials and writing some test programs doesn't seem like a bad way to get started.

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

I saw Solo Learn but did not check out, I am not sure of the level of complexity it would present in real.

EdX courses are in truth, God send, hundreds of millions of people around the world have only mobile as a computer, if they can access EdX courses and simultaneously, in some way do those programming exercises on mobile itself, they would be so much better off.

Ologn• 9 years ago

AIDE for Android allows you to write and run Android apps on your Android device. It is on Google Play. You can write and run an app for free, although certain functions need an in-app purchase. It is decent enough, and highly rated, as it's one of the best ones there. The nice thing is you can write and run apps on the device itself. Of course, if someone wants to seriously program Android, they would get a computer, Android Studio and such.

jankotek• 9 years ago

Absolutely, 8" phone with bluetooth keyboard is decent machine. It runs full linux shell and python...

contingencies• 9 years ago

Yes, absolutely. A lot of us learned on far less powerful machines. Don't listen to the detractors. The hardware limitations will help to create focus and understanding... but do buy a bluetooth keyboard. If you can't afford one, email me and I'll post you one.

You're not going to find the best algorithm in terms of computational complexity by coding. - Leslie Lamport

Clarke's Second Law: The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible. - Arthur C. Clarke

... quotes from http://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

wow ! thanks so very much! I hope that I won't disappoint, either of us.

and yes, thanks for the offer to, but it would cost you a lot to ship it all the way where I live.

but also, this is an experiment in pedagogy and Mobile learning. If tomorrow, I am staying at a place where bombs are exploding everywhere, it would be so much trouble to run with Bluetooth keyboard and the mobile both, rather than only mobile :-)

timonoko• 9 years ago

I made phone keyboard shortcuts for Emacs: https://www.flickr.com/photos/timonoko/14726648438/in/album-...

wikibob• 9 years ago

For those reading this that are on an Apple device here are some interesting options for getting started with learning on iOS. At a very very basic level there’s swift playgrounds.

Also I used Pythonista years ago and it was pretty cool. Looks like they’ve done a nice job of keeping it up to date.

- Pythonista 3 $10. Supports Python 2.7 & 3.5, stepthrough debugging, popular modules, and apparently it can access some iOS things like photos and sensors now too.

Website: http://omz-software.com/pythonista/

App Store: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pythonista-3/id1085978097

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

thanks, I have an android phone. also my intention is to finish he two EdX courses specifically.

ofrzeta• 9 years ago

Take a look at Touchdevelop https://www.touchdevelop.com Originating from Windows Phone it is a playful way to develop apps on WP, Android, iPhone (and others) with an own programming language and a smart editor.

Jonathanks2• 9 years ago

TheRealmccoy's goal is commendable. Many economies do not have favorably balanced trade with the big nations, so an effective way to learn on mobile will help many persons. But in a crisis where bombs and bullets are flying around, will studying be really important to survival? Will edX be of any help to someone who likely does not have internet access (I'd rather spend on essential goods than pay an ISP that doesn't care about me)? His solution, if he finds one, will be of benefit to the captive economies of the third world, except the crisis-torn economies.

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

specially in crisis torn places, one finds only gloom and sadness; the future looks dark and bleak, if a pedagogical approach is found where kids and youngsters can learn on mobile itself, something like Programming, which could help them in a better future, that could help many. Unfortunates those who are forced to migrate, may be can learn enough to start a new beginning.

Jonathanks2• 9 years ago

I sincerely hope you find something that works. It is a good pursuit. Will it be limited to learning programming only? There are many other skills that will be needed after such crises. One such skill is creative writing to bring the arts back to life (other arts are needed too). Another is story telling, because the story of the events will need to be told, preferably by those who were in the midst of it, not those who wish to write the victims' history (like the colonialists did to Africa).

fellellor• 9 years ago

Mobile environment, IMO, is hyper focused towards the software content consumer rather than software content creators. While what you say is certainly possible to an extent, a person attempting this will be much more hobbled than someone with a cheap laptop, access to constant electricity and an internet connection. This situation can be remedied if the dev environment owning companies in question - Google, Apple and Microsoft - make a substantial attempt to make the mobile environment conducive for software development.

But I honestly don't know why they would do this because the incentives aren't extremely strong here. The vast majority of developer population across the world already has access to the tools mentioned earlier. If you are talking about the populations of the developing world who don't have access, then the companies in question would rightly ask what is the incentive for the effort required to target these populations when it's unclear how many of them would want to participate in this sort of activity.

That said I'd love to see mobile devices with environments as configurable as desktop linux, while giving you full control over the hardware, including even the radio reciever (if not the transmitter).

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

indeed,this experiment is to find out that, whether a mobile could be used for creating value also like programming skills resulting into direct or indirect employment.

certainly no incentive for biggies here because time spent creation in mobile means, time not spent consuming which is ulterior to their motive.

ellius• 9 years ago

I used Termius app + DigitalOcean droplet with some success. It's not fun but it will get the job done if you know vim or some other command line text editor well.

TheRealmccoy28• 9 years ago

I would try termius but I believe I have the entire Linux setup now on mobile. I am using Vim.

Ask HN: Can programming be learnt completely on smartphone?

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