Firebase gets better analytics, crash reporting and more

https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/07/googles-firebase-developer-platform-gets-better-analytics-crash-reports-and-more?1

by jamest • 10 years ago

130 64 10 years ago

rch2• 10 years ago

I stopped looking at Firebase for a while since they seemed to have trouble with my multiple, simultaneous Google account logins. Pretty reasonable growing pains actually, and based on clicking around now, possibly fixed.

No opinion on the current news, other than that it's nice to see continued signs of life.

bmpafa3• 10 years ago

If you use Firefox, that bug won't affect you. But yeah, huge pain, and was difficult to troubleshoot.

Raphael• 10 years ago

The best way around that is to use Chrome's "Switch Person" feature.

rch2• 10 years ago

Disagree. Google manages multiple logins just fine.

mentos2• 10 years ago

Firebase needs to get a C++ SDK for Unreal Engine 4 so I can put it to use in the FPS I'm working on.

I would love to setup a master server browser list that updated in real time so that you can see by the moment the availability of servers and stats of current players in the server. I think Firebase would really make this electrifying! Right now the delay that Steam's master server browser list has is just so 1998.

After that I'd add realtime global chat to the main menu of the game and server administration without having to log into a server. Then maybe I'd play around with doing some funky stuff where I push player locations in real time to Firebase and use that to drive a webclient that just renders the map artwork and player location dots.

So many possibilities (!!!) but without a true C++ Firebase SDK I can't justify the time to develop these features or the SDK myself as I have a boatload of other tasks to complete for the game.

If anyone is interested in freelance C++ work and thinks they could create a true socketed Firebase SDK solution (not REST) in UE4 send me an email at contact@drivenarts.com

stewartmiles4• 10 years ago

Hi, Stewart here from the Firebase team.

We released a C++ API for the Realtime Database earlier today targeting iOS and Android, you can get started with it here https://firebase.google.com/docs/database/cpp/start

Using the C++ API within Unreal (assuming you're targeting mobile) is a little tricky as we have dependencies upon Android resources (e.g AARs) that can be hard to integrate into Unreal's build system. You would probably need to list the set of transitive dependencies (see https://groups.google.com/d/msg/firebase-talk/15SdQA8xtnc/aw...).

It would be informative for us to understand which platforms you're targeting and which features of Firebase (we support more than the Realtime Database) you would consider using.

Cheers, Stewart

mentos2• 10 years ago

Thanks for the response Stewart! In my post I completely forgot to mention that the game is currently targeting PC.

Whats the outlook for a Firebase PC C++ SDK? (Right now I'd only be interested in the real time database.)

Given UE4's success I think the effort to support the platform would be worth it. The use cases I listed above are just the tip of the iceberg. Think about it? :P

ino2• 10 years ago

Excuse the tangent, but what problem does Firebase solve?

I was updating my app and AdMob and they want me to use Firebase now. https://firebase.google.com/docs/admob/ios/quick-start

I wanted to know why should I include it just to use AdMob so I checked the video on the page: https://youtu.be/9qCxo0D-Sak They promise to explain benefits for me but they only tell me how to use it. The docs also don't do it.

It seems to me that it solves more some problem Google has than the developers have.

stewartmiles4• 10 years ago

Hi, Stewart here from the Firebase team.

https://firebase.google.com/docs/admob/admob-firebase has a pretty good explaination of the benefits. For example, using AdMob + Firebase you'll immediately be able to take advantage of Firebase Analytics to "measure sessions, user demographics, revenue from in-app products" and you'll have a relatively easy path to start utilize other Firebase features - if you want - in future.

Cheers, Stewart

ino2• 10 years ago

Thanks for answering, I appreciate it.

I already use Google Analytics and it works really great. I don't need the other features and I don't want to include the whole framework just to display ads, it seems really overkill.

I'm glad we have an option to use AdMob separately, please don't take it away.

jamest3• 10 years ago

[Firebase Founder] The combination of the two is meant to help you maximize ad revenue.

Since Firebase has a free & unlimited analytics product, you can see your AdMob stats in the same place as your other analytics data.

From a conceptual point-of-view, the Firebase SDKs are now the place Google puts 'core mobile offerings', AdMob is one of those

scsilver• 10 years ago

With such a generous free tier, what are you guys doing to ensure you will be around in 5 years? Love your service, it just seems too good to be true.

wwalser2• 10 years ago

Similarly, Google is pushing developers toward Firebase as a replacement for their identity toolkit[1]. However, while reading the provided documentation and tutorials, it's not clear how anything is better than the old toolkit except that the tutorials now assume you'd like to use Firebase to store your user DB (which I have no interest in). I also have trouble discerning where the free ends and usage starts costing money.

Compared to Facebook's acquisition of Parse, I'm happy that the Firebase team hasn't been shut down and has been shipping new stuff. However, it's disappointing that instead of continuing to build a great value-add, they seem to be consuming existing Google platforms and fairly often making the documentation for those things much more confusing.

1. https://developers.google.com/identity/toolkit/

jamest3• 10 years ago

[Firebase Founder/PM]

The Firebase Auth product existed before Firebase joined Google. We've upgraded it significantly, pulling in lots from Identity Toolkit. While we're not at full parity yet, I'd love to hear what's missing for you. There are lots of net-new features we've added [1]

The cost is free for unlimited users (same as Identity Toolkit) [2]

I'm sorry to hear you've had a poor experience with our docs, feel free to respond here or get in touch (james@firebase.com) and let me know how we can improve.

[1] https://developers.google.com/identity/toolkit/migrate-fireb...

[2] https://firebase.google.com/pricing/

cornflake2• 10 years ago

The free version of Google Analytics gets capped at a certain volume of traffic whereas Firebase doesn't. That's definitely one motivating factor to make the switch.

I'll be interested to check it out when they get around to introducing Real-Time user stats to firebase. That's a pretty crucial component of analytics which I have open all the time.

Google contacted me to switch to firebase from analytics. Seems like they're putting a lot of effort into re-launching the firebase brand this year.

stewartmiles4• 10 years ago

Checkout the sneak peak of Firebase Analytics's StreamView. https://youtu.be/2sCjSz_svdY?t=1787

Also, it sounds like you may find the new DebugView feature interesting. https://youtu.be/2sCjSz_svdY?t=1346

Cheers, Stewart (Firebase team)

cornflake2• 10 years ago

That keynote helps a lot, thanks Stewart

DigitalSea• 10 years ago

This is great news. My last few web projects have all been based on Firebase because I focus on the front-end these days and I don't have to worry about scaling, databases, API endpoints and other nonsense which consumes a lot of my day. The pain of even getting a VPS deployed with support for Node.js, database and then figuring out some kind of redundancy to keep Node and my database running can also consume your day.

I used to favour Node.js for my REST API backend, but you can't beat the pricing for Firebase and generous free tier. One of the lesser known features is the cloud configuration service which gives you an SDK, it allows me to remotely turn settings on and off, syndicating them in realtime across all devices.

Oh, and the authentication functionality that Firebase offers with the painless SDK is absolutely fantastic. It's crazy easy to add Google/Facebook login functionality to my application and not worry about dealing with the pain of JSON Web Tokens, oAuth authentication and the other pain points of integrating social login. Implementing authentication used to be painful, fortunately services like Auth0 and Firebase are making it easier.

To those wondering who would use Firebase, I am a prime example. I am a front-end developer, but I come from a full-stack background. As I focus on the front-end, I've lost interest in configuring API's and backends, so Firebase handling this for me without needing to really do anything is a huge plus. I have no want, need or desire to ever touch a backend if I can avoid it.

For prototyping, you can't beat Firebase's cloud hosted database which utilises a JSON format to store data aka NoSQL without the scaling pain like MongoDB inflicted upon us. The rules engine that sits ontop of it allows you to configure it however you want, support for indexes and more.

Makes me happy to see that Google is doubling down on Firebase, it truly is a great product and I would be sad to see it discontinued.

girvo3• 10 years ago

Question: How do you deal with authorisation? I've still yet to come up with a solution I'm happy with unfortunately; I'm currently relying on a custom token generated server-side that grants given users particular claims that I then check in the database rules, but it feels... brittle, I guess.

anshum4n• 10 years ago

Exact same thing that we are using for a realtime collaborative app. Generate token on server-side with access to certain keys.

However, we had to redo our json structure once we started thinking authorisation. It sucked and in retrospect should have thought about it earlier, but it seems to work.

Typically authorisation layers on top of existing data, but in this case, we had to redo data structure keeping auth in mind. Is that why you feel its brittle?

Kiro2• 10 years ago

I'm currently relying on a custom token generated server-side

I don't understand. Where's this server? I thought the point of Firebase was that you don't need a server.

doczoidberg• 10 years ago

I also like firebase. Unfortunately the updates are all for mobile development and not for the web. Also there is no support for angular universal in angularfire?

elcct• 10 years ago

I don't have to worry about scaling, databases, API endpoints and other nonsense

You caused a lot of backend developers to shed a tear

messel• 10 years ago

detail: You don't have to worry about scaling up to 10-40k connections, which is great for small-medium apps (which is not scaling).

Once you go beyond that you have to manually shard and replicate data between shards and load balance your connections.

alantrum• 10 years ago

I developed my first SWA with angular 2 + firebase database/hosting. In one hand, the dev process is really easy and fast (firebase deploy to upload your website).

In the other end, if you want to be fully serverless it's start to getting more complicated. Using external service to manage form (form.io), page pre-rendering (prerender.io), notification...

I don't know why analytic, crash report are only available on Android/iOS because when you are able to do your sdk on 2 platforms. 1 more shouldn't be that hard.

bmpafa3• 10 years ago

I use firebase daily for my project. Love these new features in theory, but a little bummed haven't seen analytics or remote config make its way to the web SDK yet (all my projects are webapps).

Framing analytics as the 'heart of firebase' makes me a little worried about the future of firebase for web projects. Is firebase moving away from webapps?

moflome• 10 years ago

Good news & glad to see the continued investment in Firebase. It's quickly become the go-to BASS for our client's React apps; works great with Redux/Thunk.

Any update on the multi-domain hosting [0] issue?

[0] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/firebase-talk/fcpBcB...

mbleigh• 10 years ago

A solution is under active development. We don't communicate timelines, but it's a high priority for the team.

bikamonki3• 10 years ago

I am a super happy Firebase user from day zero. I've built many production-ready apps with it and will continue to do so. So far the only features missing that will make it perfect and a complete back-end solution are:

1. Server code (something like parse server code or AWS lambda) to run event triggers (eg: run more complex data validation or trigger a mail/sms after a ref is created/updated)

2. Full text search. When I need full text search on my apps I have to spin-up a server (normally nodejs) and build/keep a searchable index. Then I think: if I have to run/maintain this back-end piece I might as well build an API for my app and solve the lack of back-end code as well.

3. I am still not sold on React/Vue/Angular2 so the tried and tested Backbone framework is my weapon of choice. Sadly enough, there is no official library to implement Backbone-Firebase bindings so I find myself hacking patches.

brazzledazzle• 10 years ago

Have you taken a look at the AWS managed elasticsearch service for your search/indexing?

bikamonki3• 10 years ago

Yes, it seems like a good solution. I've also rolled out my own: a simple nodejs app that listens to child added/changed events and updates a simple index which in turn can be queried through an API. For now that fits my needs.

asciimike• 10 years ago

On 3, there is https://github.com/firebase/backbonefire, which is our official library for the Firebase Realtime Database + Backbone. We'd be happy to work with you to add additional web features (Auth, Storage, etc.)

bikamonki3• 10 years ago

Backbonefire does not work with Firebase 3

https://github.com/firebase/backbonefire/issues/152

hiou• 10 years ago

So happy to be wrong about the future of Firebase. Firebase makes it so easy for setting up the basics of any crud and I'm glad Google continues to support it.

Strom2• 10 years ago

Google decided to double down on Firebase

So much so that they announced the closing down of another realtime service just last week, the Channel API [1], and are trying to funnel everyone into using Firebase instead. Frankly I'm not sure I even want to look into another Google service as I feel it'll get deprecated in no time as well. Better to use someone whose primary business I'm using.

[1] https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/deprecations/channel

jaxondu• 10 years ago

Any idea what are the alternatives? Dont see similar offerings from AWS or Azure.

One minus point for Firebase is its Android SDK relies on the availability of Google Play services. Most of Android phones in China has no Google Play. So apps can not run even when you do not utilize any of Google Play services. In addition, there is no official words that you can use Firebase services within the great China firewall. It's better to look elsewhere if you have China market in mind.

Strom2• 10 years ago

Alternatives for the whole collection of Firebase services? Not sure, but for the realtime messaging/sync part I found the following four that I'll take the time to investigate as replacements for my Channel API usage.

* https://pusher.com/

* https://www.pubnub.com/

* https://www.ably.io/

* https://framework.realtime.co/

crb• 10 years ago

Sounds like a well handled deprecation to me:

The Channel API did not scale well enough for the workloads it was intended for and so did not find wide adoption.
You can use the Firebase Realtime Database to achieve superior realtime functionality in your application. Firebase is a more robust and customizable solution than the Channels API, and it allows communication with a broader set of clients. It currently supports Android, iOS, and apps, and web browser apps.

wiradikusuma2• 10 years ago

Anyone has link to the new Firebase course in Udacity mentioned in the article?

EDIT: Also, if possible, link to join the realtime analytics beta, as I just checked in the Console, there's nothing new there.

gina6502• 10 years ago

Interviewed a new YC startup recently called Scaphold they are a BaaS using GraphQL.

https://soundcloud.com/user-925097294/mike-paris-founder-of-...

bmpafa3• 10 years ago

Scaphold, along with Reindex, are pretty interesting. Don't know a lot about graphql, but it looks like they're both positioning to be firebase competitors. Both would have the distinct advantage (for the user, disadvantage for them) of using regular graphql queries in an app, meaning a project could easily migrate from one graphQL backend to another (whereas Firebase would require significant refactoring).

gina6502• 10 years ago

yes it is scaphold.io and there was the first GraphQL summit last week in San Francisco and they were mentioning all the companies changing over and hiring for graphql skills.

smnl• 10 years ago

I've used Parse extensively as a backed for iOS apps before and lately started trying out Firebase as a replacement. Firebase seems like a decent alternative so far, but there's 2 important features that I'd like to see:

1. Always immediate updates for Remote Config flags - currently Firebase uses old cached flags for up to 12 hours and only allows immediate updates in the "developer mode", but in production, sometimes you need to change a config flag for all users immediately, perhaps to fix a bug, and can't afford having clients still use the old cached values.

Also, it would be nice if Remote Config supported additional data types like arrays, dicts, and dates.

2. A non-realtime key-value datastore - most apps don't require a realtime database, so it'd be great to have a simple datastore where you don't have to worry about managing the number of simultaneous connections.

meursault334• 10 years ago

It's nice to see the Unity SDK out. What I would love to see is support for unity3d with webgl.

DougN72• 10 years ago

Honest question to Firebase users - with Google's history of ending products, aren't you nervous about building your business on top of this? This seems pretty locked in.

ben_jones2• 10 years ago

I think the difference for Firebase, and contradictory to what happened with Parse, is that Google is pretty invested in cloud database offerings through Google cloud. My company doesn't use Firebase anymore (though we briefly did while building our MVP), but we would consider it again if the situation was right.

DougN72• 10 years ago

I think you mean "(at the moment) Google is pretty invested in...".

I'm finding I don't trust other companies any more, even those with the best intentions. I'll use them as long as I have an option to switch away to an alternative. If there is no alternative without a rewrite, no way...

rubicon33• 10 years ago

That's a great question. My answer is a solid YES.

I am worried. My entire business currently depends on Firebase from top to bottom. Of course I would have preferred this were not the case, but the services they offer can get you up and running very quickly.

I have to say, that over time, I may try and build my own tools that I know will exist in 10 years.

jefffriesen• 10 years ago

Has there been any commitment stated anywhere to analytics for web apps?

Illniyar• 10 years ago

Seriously? What about triggers, or running google functions at request? Who needs more analytics functions.

Kiro2• 10 years ago

What kind of apps do you build with Firebase? The lack of server-side logic must be really limiting.

willempienaar• 10 years ago

Firebase is great for getting up and running quickly.

If you want server side logic then you can use Firebase as a queue. So let the client request data through Firebase and then you have another service monitor the queue and fill requests.

sidcool• 10 years ago

Firebase is fast becoming my favorite platform for Android development. Great feature set. I just hope nothing like Parse befalls it.

mahyarm• 10 years ago

What do you do if firebase dies like parse and stackmob? This quora answer makes a pretty persuasive argument as to why you shouldn't rely on these platforms: https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Parse-shutting-down/answer/Tim-...

lonelycoder2• 10 years ago

However the alternative is making your own stack which for small devs is more resources then you may have. Instead of spending time developing the tech that's core you have to create a backend. I had a project on parse but it isn't very successful so I'm letting it die instead of migrating. If it was successful I would have the time & money to migrate it.

ak1394• 10 years ago

Use open source alternatives in a first place. For authentication there is RedHat's http://keycloak.org, thanks to containers it's really easy to setup if you want to try it out. See https://medium.com/@ak1394/simple-social-login-for-react-nat... for an example.

Firebase gets better analytics, crash reporting and more

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