Please... No rockstars

http://darrylsiry.posterous.com/pleaseno-rockstars

by fromedome • 16 years ago

64 46 16 years ago

darrylsiry.posterous.com

adrianwaj3• 16 years ago

Keep clear of VCs that think they're or behave like rockstars, but have no talent or track record.

weeksie• 16 years ago

YES.

I want smart people on my team, but I NEED people that can actually work with a team. In my experience "Rockstars" are usually kids who have a knack for development and fragile egos.

sherl0ck• 16 years ago

then it's a ninja you're looking for. they could work alone, also could work in a pack. and they are awesome :).

TotlolRon• 16 years ago

"I just want incredibly intelligent, competent people who are opinionated but value each other as well."

ah. Much simpler.

acid_bath2• 16 years ago

> I think that a startup is not the place for that kind of person. I just want incredibly intelligent, competent people who are opinionated but value each other as well.

Well good luck then to you, sir. If you find that Perfect Employee who's willing to start a job that might not exist in 6 months with below average pay and benefits (the standard startup MO), hire him or her immediately.

djsiry2• 16 years ago

I did!

jbr2• 16 years ago

Thanks!

stuff4ben• 16 years ago

You join a startup knowing those risks. And yet people still do it because we know that with that risk comes a potential reward at the end. BTW, he's not asking for the perfect employee, he's asking for what every company should be asking for. If not I question why you're hiring to begin with.

acid_bath2• 16 years ago

Really? _Really?_

You really think that there exist enough "incredibly intelligent" people to fill every tech role in existence?

Sure, every company can _ask_ for the top 1%, but unless they're delusional they're going to have to deal with the fact that some of the people they hire are just going to have to be average. Doubly so for a company offering no job security and long/chaotic hours for a very low chance of payoff in a few years.

Trust me, I know the risks because I've worked almost exclusively with and for start-ups. To me it's completely self evident why startup culture attracts the crazies or "rockstar" programmers. Who else is going to gamble so much time and effort on a what's almost certainly a failed venture? Usually not the industry's top talent, unless they're one of the founders.

Of course, I'm speaking very generally and making sweeping, stereotypes based on my own experience, which may not accurately reflect reality.

--edit--

My post above sounds a bit more aggressive than I intended, sorry. All I'm saying is that "incredibly intelligent" programmers with good communication skills are rare and it's pretty unreasonable (IMO) for a startup founder to just expect them to show up just because he has an idea and a little bit of money.

ido• 16 years ago

Interesting, I thought start ups (at least of the VC-funded-grow-fast-and-sell-to-google/ms/oracle/ibm type) normally offer higher salaries than average to mitigate the longer working hours and lack of job security.

j_baker4• 16 years ago

Nope, the justification is that they're going to give you enough equity that you'll get rich when they sell to the google/ms/oracle/ibm type.

nathanh• 16 years ago

Rockstars? What you really need is a ninja. <joking>

This came up a litte while ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1248389

Seems like to most people it means that whoever wrote the job post has unreasonable expectations. Also, rockstars make a lot of money. If a company really is looking for a rockstar, they better be able to pay for it.

adrianwaj3• 16 years ago

If Bono came to me looking for work, I'd find something for him to do. Same with Anthony Kiedes. Great PR.

trafficlight• 16 years ago

I wouldn't hire Bono. He wouldn't get anything done. He would just write songs about your problem, rather than actually doing something about it.

anatoli• 16 years ago

Because we all know that people are being literal when looking for a rockstar. Right? Have a little imagination.

I'm not a huge fan of it, myself, but there are certain scenarios where using 'rockstar' or 'ninja' even makes sense -- asuming the rest of the posting is up to par.

FBever• 16 years ago

How is "rockstar" positive in any sense of the word? And therefore, when is it ever relevant on a job description?

I don't understand how rockstar became synonymous with highly competent/productive. It's almost the exact opposite of the accepted meaning.

roc• 16 years ago

To me, saying "rockstar" would imply the following positives: an otherwise-inexplicable charisma, resonance-with and/or understanding-of what the average person wants, and an employer who pays commensurate with the employee, not the job

"Rockstar" definitely carries the baggage of being highly-associated with douchebags and prima-donnas. But it's not all negative.

cesare• 16 years ago

C'mon. Who didn't dream of becoming a rockstar.

The recording industry has used the same manipulation techniques to screw ingenuous people for ages.

chc• 16 years ago

In the positive sense, it refers to somebody who is looked up to with awe and respect, like a rock star. For example, DHH had something of a rockstar air when Rails was the cool new kid because everyone was in awe of the guy who created this awesome framework. What they're trying to convey with "Are you a rockstar?" is "Does everyone you work with think you are amazing in an almost unattainable way?"

It's still stupid, lazy phrasing IMO, but that seems to be people's meaning.

mechanical_fish2• 16 years ago

First, the disclaimer: You obviously can't expect language evolution to be logical. People say "couldn't care less", for example, to the annoyance of pedantic people everywhere.

Second, one can't rule out the possibility that "rockstar" started out as irony, or even an insult, applied to a specific handful of people who later became famous and carried the word along with them. That's what happened to the word impressionist, for example, which was coined by a derisive outsider as part of an insulting review but then got adopted by the Impressionists themselves and eventually became a standard term for a specific flavor of artist.

Having said all of that... There are lots of traits of actual rockstars that the word "rockstar" is meant to convey:

You're looking for an artist, not a bureaucrat.

You're looking for someone who attempts to connect with an audience, who understands that their job is communication.

You're looking for someone who shows evidence of patient and diligent practice. Though the Sex Pistols might be the exception that proves the rule [1], you don't become a rockstar by sheer luck, or charisma, or the right hairstyle, or by taking heroin and smashing up hotel rooms. You need talent. You have to practice a whole lot. Generally alone, and in obscurity, for little pay, because you take joy in the practice of your art, and because you are a forward-looking person with big goals.

You're looking for someone with big goals, someone who aspires to at least a little more than the average session musician. Someone who is going somewhere and can inspire others to follow.

---

[1] Remember: If progressive rock had never been invented, the Sex Pistols could never have succeeded: AFAIK the first wave of punk rock was a reaction to other genres. And it was extremely temporary... within literally weeks the punk movement was dominated by people who had some practice, if only because the early bands inevitably got some practice. ;)

hugh32• 16 years ago

I'd rather hire a samurai programmer than a ninja programmer. They're fiercely loyal, well-educated and much easier to find.

jbr2• 16 years ago

Good call. I'm going to ask every potential hire whether they've read the hagakure.

djsiry2• 16 years ago

Gadzooks - I was wondering where all the traffic to my brand-new posterous was coming from. First time for me on Hacker News - thanks for all the comments (thanks fromedome for posting)

Darryl founder/CEO NewsBasis

jlees• 16 years ago

I actually saw someone who was job-hunting self-describe with "My technical experience, business knowledge, and passion for technology make me a ninja-rockstar."

Double bzzzt!

j_baker4• 16 years ago

Was the word "guru" involved? If so, the unholy trinity of HR buzzspeak would have been complete.

rbanffy• 16 years ago

I think the magic only works when other knowledgeable people say someone is a ninja-rockstar as a compliment.

I have seen both kinds.

mhd• 16 years ago

I'm the Beethoven of programmers. I don't listen to what my co-workers are saying and I always leave unfinished work.

angstrom• 16 years ago

Don't forget 'deaf to everything going on around you'...another idiom falls.

stretchwithme• 16 years ago

I'm the Jesus/Darwin hybrid of programmers. I inherit all the right things from each class.

j_baker4• 16 years ago

Were you really a good programmer, you'd have chosen to be a Jesus programmer with a Darwin mixin. But you didn't so now you have to worry about the diamond problem.

ardit33• 16 years ago

Basically what the author is saying he wants people what are smart a good, but humble, and not with narcistic traits.

What a 'rockstar' type of title might attract people that may / may not, be good, but are highly narcistic: This paragraph is a classical npd trait: "Do these people really want to hire self-absorbed pricks who show flashes of brilliance but generally leave mayhem in their wake? That's what a rockstar is. Selfish, demanding, unreliable, and requiring others to lavish them with adoration or they will have a tantrum and walk off the stage in the middle of the concert. Then they overdose and end up on a reality show."

synnik• 16 years ago

It is an idiom, not a metaphor.

dannyr• 16 years ago

I once met an angel investor who introduced himself as "Angel Investor to Rockstar Entrepreneurs." Then I said, "cool, I have to go to the bathroom."

p.s. That angel investor is actually a regular poster here on HN.

doki_pen• 16 years ago

You can call me whatever you think of as "the guy that's worth the most money". ;-)

shalmanese• 16 years ago

Eh, it's a cheap form of social signaling which is performing it's function perfectly. Like how baby names move from high class to low class through diffusion, someone advertising for a rockstar 3 - 5 years ago was a good signal that you should consider applying and someone advertising for it now is a good sign that you shouldn't.

jaekwon• 16 years ago

I expect great developers to be able to rip through guitar hero at expert level. VIM does that to you.

gvb• 16 years ago

...but emacs users are better at chording. :-P

Please... No rockstars

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