Microsoft won't back down from Windows 10 nagware 'trick'

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/26/microsoft_clarifies_upgrade_trick/

by wolfgke • 10 years ago

144 196 10 years ago

theregister.co.uk

Piskvorrr27• 10 years ago

Windows Nein upgrade is malware, IMNSHO.

- Uses intentionally confusing UI to trick users into installing ("upgrade now or upgrade later?" - note the absence of "do not upgrade")

- IMSHNO installs without user consent (closing a "upgrade now?" window counts as "no" anywhere, including MSFT UX Guidelines, hello there hypocrisy)

- breaks existing applications (not every box is just Firefox+LibreOffice: specialized apps and drivers do not work well in WinX)

- while the downgrade ("better to worse" is never an upgrade) runs, you can't use your device ("preparing for blahblah, wait.")

- erases (or at best hides) user data ("yeah well we just put it all in this completely different folder without notice, it's not like you need your documents, right?")

- is very difficult to revert

- phones home (again, MS claims there is user consent. So do all the malware writers; I don't think so.)

Each and every of these are traits commonly associated with malware; thank God for GWX Control Panel.

(To be fair, pre-installed Windows 10 is usable, better than Vista even - but breaking working installs of W7 for no obvious reason is a big no-no)

TeMPOraL8• 10 years ago

I generally agree, but I wouldn't necessarily call Win10 a downgrade - it's definitely better than 8 (I would think twice about upgrading 7 as having Win7 means that you likely have a pretty old hardware).

I honestly don't understand what's going on. This looks like one of the most idiotic thing an IT company has ever done, and Microsoft doesn't care. They don't even try to explain it. And they fucked up big time - rarely any kind of scandal from the computing world reaches the general public, but this one did. I've been asked by random people for advice on whether or not to upgrade; people seem to know Win10 is "evil" and are annoyed by nagging.

ido2• 10 years ago

Win 7 became available starting at late 2009 and was popular well after 8 came out, I would suspect most computers that sold with it preinstalled would have no problem running 10.

Does 10 even have higher system requirements than 7?

ghgfhgfhn• 10 years ago

If China did this what would you think the reasons would be? Of course it would be to spy on their citizens, to exert social control.

What makes us think the US is so different after the stuff that's gone down in recent years?

I genuinely consider it a possibility that this is linked to the panic over terrorism and that governments now have access to the data being hoovered up on practically everyone by Microsoft.

Of course I have no evidence. So the best that can be said objectively is that we cannot know either way, but still my gut is sending me warning messages.

Piskvorrr27• 10 years ago

Better than 8? Maybe.

Worse than 7 on the same hardware? Absolutely, emphatically, YES. I.e. downgrade, QED.

"Win7 means you have pretty old hardware" - well, let me see here. I'm typing this on a top-of-the-line 2016 ultrabook, with Windows 7. Exactly because this is a work tool (like "for people to do some productive work on"), enterprise tends to prefer boooooring older OS over colorful cloudcloudcloud spyware.

IMNSHO, this is just a bunch of schmucks with KPIs based on new WinX installs. "Screw the userbase over? No problem, as long as we meet our bonus targets." This feels just like the old Evil Empire, IE6-style. Kudos to the Windows team for single-handedly wiping out all the goodwill the "new and improved MS" has been trying to build up for the past few years: nah, underneath it's still the same MS we used to know, just with a new paint job.

m_fayer3• 10 years ago

Better than 8? Possibly, except that Windows update in Win10 is out of control - nagging, forcing reboots, quietly resetting itself to more liberal settings if you ever try to restrict it, and pegging your CPU the second you go idle for more than 15 seconds. I need a Windows VM for Visual Studio and have both a Win8 and a Win10 one sitting around. While the Win8 one does look silly compared to Win10, it also manages not to antagonize me on a regular basis.

lars2• 10 years ago

More than that, what it installs fits any classical description of malware. Windows 10 comes with an OS wide key logger, that logs what you write in any application, and sends it to Microsoft.

(This usually evokes disbelief. If you think I'm wrong, please consider what you would do if it turned out I was right. Then, if you're on Windows 10, lookup your "speech, inking & typing" settings. This is where they ask permission to do this. It is turned on by default.)

teacup50• 10 years ago

No joke:

"We also collect your typed and handwritten words to improve character recognition and provide you with a personalized user dictionary and text completion suggestions."

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/speech-inking-...

ryanlol4• 10 years ago

More than that, what it installs fits any classical description of malware. Windows 10 comes with an OS wide key logger, that logs what you write in any application, and sends it to Microsoft.

I've yet to see any actual technical evidence of this. Quoting their very unspecific legal documents is hardly evidence of anything.

wodenokoto• 10 years ago

Uses intentionally confusing UI to trick users into installing ("upgrade now or upgrade later?" - note the absence of "do not upgrade")

Just like on iOS! I can just now, or later for my pending upgrade. It pops up everyday.

Jyaif• 10 years ago

This drives me completely insane as well.

Note that I would have no problem updating my iphone if it didn't force me to install the latest Xcode to keep developing on it.

serge2k2• 10 years ago

breaking working installs of W7 for no obvious reason

Obvious reason is they want people to upgrade. Personally I can see why they would be frustrated with people refusing to upgrade a decade old OS even when the upgrade is free.

edit: 7 year old OS.

MawNicker2• 10 years ago

The rest of the world (not us) just wants a user interface that's consistent. People need the use of their computers nowadays. They build their lives on top of them. Sweeping that out from under people without asking is NOT ok. Many people rely on old/custom software that could have easily been rendered useless in the transition. This was not an acceptable response to users refusing to upgrade. They should be allowed to do that... They bought the old version. Who cares if the new version is free.

tdkl3• 10 years ago

Make people WANT to upgrade

You know, being faster and cleaner, added features, reverting what they borked up with 8. What they managed to achieve is a public disgust when someone mentions "windows updates" (in case Windows wasn't mocked enough already).

Good job MS.

dingaling• 10 years ago

Personally I can see why they would be frustrated with people refusing to upgrade a decade old OS

Why?

They can just end support for old versions per their EULAs and shut-off access to the update servers.

Canonical doesn't care if I'm still using 8.04, they have no responsibility or liability for old releases. Why would MS be any different?

There's a deeper reason for this upgrade push but I don't know what it is.

Piskvorrr27• 10 years ago

Yeah, yeah. IF that upgrade was onto something that works like the existing setup, and especially IF it gave ME a choice when to upgrade, no problemo. See, I may have had reasons for holding onto W7, and they weren't "let's spite the Redmond people".

Opening up shop in the morning and finding that none of your equipment works anymore, despite having been perfectly fine yesterday is EEEEEEXACTLY the reason people are refusing to upgrade (because no drivers for WinX, because fuck you that's why, Where Do You Want To Go Today - Windows X Or Windows Ten?). Replacing Microsoft's frustration of "the adoption charts are not high enough" with my frustration of "okay, companywide downtime while IT repaves from backups and scrambles to block the now-rogue vendor" works for them (externalizing costs, hooray!). In the shortest of short terms only, alas - the trust we had in the OS is gone, this could happen again (e.g. at any time in the future MS could decide that their old OS cannibalizes the sales of their Windows Up To 11, or whatever). NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE.

(Technically, "we want you to upgrade because we want you to upgrade" is a bit of circular reasoning)

unlinker• 10 years ago

What the fuck is "IMSHNO"? Not even Google can answer. Is it so difficult to write what acronyms mean instead of acting like a super cool geek?

bulatb• 10 years ago

"In My Not So Humble Opinion." They switched some letters around.

pbhjpbhj• 10 years ago

Not the parent but it's just a typo for IMNSHO, surprised Google didn't get that with only a single adjacent letter swap error.

Piskvorrr27• 10 years ago

Ah, I apologize for having confused you. Mistyped "IMNSHO", which stands for "In My Not So Humble Opinion". (Originally, I had used "IMHO", but then have realized that my opinion is anything but humble.)

ryanlol4• 10 years ago

Windows Nein upgrade is malware, IMNSHO.

This is a particularly shitty meme, can we just stop with it?

IMSHNO installs without user consent (closing a "upgrade now?" window counts as "no" anywhere, including MSFT UX Guidelines, hello there hypocrisy)

This is how windows updates have always worked, no?

breaks existing applications (not every box is just Firefox+LibreOffice: specialized apps and drivers do not work well in WinX)
while the downgrade ("better to worse" is never an upgrade) runs, you can't use your device ("preparing for blahblah, wait.")

These do not malware make.

erases (or at best hides) user data ("yeah well we just put it all in this completely different folder without notice, it's not like you need your documents, right?")

Try to decide which. Erasing and hiding are two completely different things. And again, this does not make it malware as I doubt they're intentionally deleting anyones files.

is very difficult to revert

Significantly easier than any previous windows version. If you don't want it, why would you install it? You can just decline the install when the installer starts.

phones home (again, MS claims there is user consent. So do all the malware writers; I don't think so.)

Yes and so did every windows version before it. Significant parts of the new telemetry have also been backported. Oh, and malware writers certainly don't claim that.

Each and every of these are traits commonly associated with malware; thank God for GWX Control Panel.

No.

Piskvorrr27• 10 years ago

Shitty meme for a shitty forced upgrade, very fitting. Where do you want to go today? Eh never mind, we get to decide that.

No, that's explicitly not how MS updates worked: up to now, they were updates to existing OS, not automatic reinstall.

If I don't want it, I don't get asked if I want it: 19:00 there was a working Win7 box, 07:00 next day, there was a broken steaming pile of something, apparently Windows 10. No prompts, full auto.

Program files: deleted. Users folder: moved into some other location (both). I don't give a flying fork if that was intentional, it should not have happened, full stop.

In other words, FU, astroturfer. Take your piece of crap and shove it. (Yes, your wonderful Windows Nein has given us about a man-year of unplanned maintenance so far, so you see how happy I'm about it)

basicplus2• 10 years ago

as far as I know for Windows 7 and 8

uninstall and block these updates to stop WX nag and auto install

WX related - KB 3035583 WX related - KB 3150513

uninstall and block these updates to stop Windows spyware

Spyware - KB 3068708 Spyware - KB 3022345 Spyware - KB 3075249 Spyware - KB 3080149 Spyware - KB 3146449

ordinary• 10 years ago

Keep in mind that you have to be vigilant every time you install updates. Microsoft can (and often does) release multiple versions of updates, and it appears the ignore flag is not preserved between versions.

frou_dh• 10 years ago

The fact it still tries to peddle me SILVERLIGHT despite that getting "Hide Update"d every time it's ever been offered makes me think that (separate from W10-related strategic malice) there's also basic incompetence in the way Windows Update is designed/operated. I don't believe it's in MS's current interest to actively promote Silverlight and yet there it is again and again.

vmateixeira3• 10 years ago

You may want to check this one out.. more specifically BlockWindows.bat

https://github.com/WindowsLies/BlockWindows

shultays• 10 years ago

What does pressing esc key do? It usually has same functionality as pressing X button right? If pressing esc installs windows 10 too I am speechless

pca3• 10 years ago

It's more of a notification than a question dialogue. It tells you that Windows 10 is a "recommended update" now (instead of optional which it was before). That means no matter how you close the window, now you'll get the update unless you actively disable it in time.

O3d• 10 years ago

The worst thing about it for me is that I have two computers not compatible with windows 10 (super old graphics cards). Yet the upgrade prompt continues to appear.

I know the machines aren't compatible because I upgraded one using the nagging prompt and... kaboom.

calferreira• 10 years ago

Not only that, people asume that windows is easily upgradable, but it's not. If you buy an OEM laptop , which is the norm, if the manufacturer doesn't provide updated drivers you might end with a bad user experience. I have to ASUS laptops at home (N56VZ and U36SG) and both have hiccups and short freezes using windows 10. The only thing differente between Windows 7 or Windows 8 is that i don't have updated drivers from OEM. This made me realize where buying an expensive mac might payoff in the long run.

vt2402• 10 years ago

Why don't you roll back the the patch. Just search google for the KB number and uninstall. Then go into windows update and hide it. I did this on a couple of systems at work. edit: oops, I missed someone already posted it below.

Piskvorrr27• 10 years ago

And then MS silently reenables this KB. Yup. About 6 times so far.

alphonsegaston• 10 years ago

Check out Never 10 from Steve Gibson. Should set you up to prevent this.

https://www.grc.com/never10.htm

mclemme2• 10 years ago

A few years ago there was usually a huge "don't change my facebook" uproar every time facebook changed the functionality or layout of the site. Yet every time a change was implemented, a few weeks went by and most people forgot it ever changed and loved the new layout and/or functionality.

Facebook could and can do that because they own facebook, and you are the product (being sold to marketers, etc.)

I think people are slowly realizing that the situation is the same with Windows, there's always been complaints when new Windows versions came out, Win98 => ME => 2k => XP => Vista => 7 => 8 => 10. But usually people only experienced the switch whenever they got a new computer with a newer version of Windows on it.

Edit: http://www.allwelike.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/26-Faceb...

stdclass• 10 years ago

There is an important difference between a new feature on a social network and a whole new OS. Many people have software and/or drivers installed that won't work on a newer OS.

mclemme2• 10 years ago

I agree! I just think Microsoft either has not taken into account the possible backlash from breaking people's printers, scanners, webcams, programs, etc. or maybe they have taken it into account and decided the backlash was worth the increased Win10 marketshare.

wolfgke• 10 years ago

The company that I had an internship at a few years ago (in software development) also pieced together computers from individually selected components for special customers (say, from medical sector or engineering).

At that time customers nearly always insisted that despite Windows 8 would have advantages for them to have Windows 7 installed (if they weren't ordering the computer with only some GNU/Linux distribution installed, as some customers also did). The reason is that often there were employees at the company that ordered the PC which couldn't get along with the new GUI (the same thing also happened for the Ribbon GUI that was introduced with Office 2007; I know people who still prefer the old Office 2003 GUI and only use the current version because they have to).

So already at that time lots of customers were waiting for the version that came after 8.0/8.1.

But Microsoft did the completely wrong thing: While fixing the GUI annoyances with Windows 10 (as far as I have heard) they introduced espionage functionality into Windows 10 - a cardinal sin in many European countries where lots of people are deeply worried about the US spying since the Snowden revelations. Also lots of German companies are very afraid of corporate espionage from the US (at the same level or even more as they fear it from China) - and they have good reasons for being worried - I just say "Enercon":

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Enercon&oldid=711...

sambe• 10 years ago

Microsoft is simultaneously more open than ever (dev-related) and acting just like the 90s (consumer-related). So strange, Windows 10 is pretty nice but they risk destroying reputation with spyware and deceit. I am assuming they are desperate to get people onto the continuous upgrade train to avoid the Windows XP situation occur inn again.

cm21875• 10 years ago

That's being nice to Microsoft.

Another way to see it is that they want to monetize their users by taking a cut of the software installed with the app store, with bing integrated in the OS, and with ads being served directly in the OS.

And they care more about monetizing their users than their users privacy or interest.

secoif• 10 years ago

"…they care more about monetizing their users than their users privacy or interest."

Sadly this is true for all but a handful of companies.

serge2k2• 10 years ago

It's already happening, look at all the people just in this thread who refuse to update to 10.

TeMPOraL8• 10 years ago

And then look around and see the genpops, the non-tech-savvy people who already know they don't want to upgrade to Windows 10. I was really surprised by that initially - it's rare that people outside of tech know anything about any of the bullshit companies pull, but here I suddenly had random people consulting me on the Windows 10 issue...

crdoconnor• 10 years ago

The opening up on the dev side is not a signal that they've had a change of heart. It's just a ploy to stave off future irrelevance.

With consumers using Windows they still dominate the market. Hence no need to be Mr nice guy.

If their open sourcing strategy works and leads to any kind of market dominance I'm pretty confident that they'll revert to old tactics on the dev side just like before.

AnonymousPlanet• 10 years ago

This is exactly how I see things too. I'm pretty amazed by the naivety I see around here. None of their open sourcing moves are immune to a complete 180° turn on their part, making the move effectively void. On the contrary, all their recent moves look like they are just after getting all those devs that use Linux and OSX to move to Windows.

1ris2• 10 years ago

The line to "unauthorised computer access" has be crossed several times.

Usually investigators are overzealous with prosecuting this crime, but i doubt anybody will neven ever start investigations against microsoft.

ryanl0l7• 10 years ago

If you really feel that way, why do you not file a police report then?

1ris2• 10 years ago

As i'm not a windows user this is not worth my time and i probably couldn't even file a report.

But the real reason why i don't is that i'm not a US citizen and my local "hacking" laws are less strict.

smcl• 10 years ago

I love the "it's worked like this for months" quote. Yeh, you silently switched the behaviour for a single case a couple of months ago in an feature people rarely use. How could anyone be upset about that?

algorias• 10 years ago

Recently my mom ended up with windows 10, despite not intending to upgrade. No idea how it exactly happened.

Anyway, as a result all her .docx files got associated with microsoft office (yes, during the upgrade windows "forgot" her preference for libreoffice) and to add insult to injury, the files wouldn't even open, instead whenever she double clicked one of them she'd get an ad urging her to buy an office 365 subscription to allow her to see her own fucking files.

I'm done with Microsoft, forever. No matter what they do, I will never trust them again.

MawNicker2• 10 years ago

This is so strange. It's like the OS team is in another universe. The rest of the company is nailing it.

oceanswave2• 10 years ago

Nailing their own coffin, I agree

sametmax• 10 years ago

You mean the phone team killing nokia, the legal team suying linux based companies or the Web team wanting to create a gigantic censorship database or the game team creating a console always online with an always on microphone, effectively creating the biggest spyware of all time ?

But the PR team nails it, I agree, because despite everything microsoft does, people keep forgetting.

PhantomGremlin• 10 years ago

It's like the OS team is in another universe

I'm sure it's not the entire team, engineers usually aren't sociopathic assholes.

No, this is undoubtedly marketing or management. Maybe even top management. Maybe Nadella?

m_fayer3• 10 years ago

Same happened to my mom just yesterday. My mom happens to be an anxious 75 year old woman who takes a long time to acclimate to anything new on her computer, and also relies on said computer for several critical areas of her life.

She called me in a panic from 6 timezones away, and I had to drop what I was doing and spend a good half a day walking her through the various transition and setup steps. Every 30 minutes she would plaintively ask me why she had to do this - she was perfectly happy with what she had and had no interest in anything new. Every time she asked and I had no good answer, vague thoughts that included the words "class" and "action" swam through my head.

Rangi42• 10 years ago

One advantage to my grandmother still using Windows XP: it won’t auto-upgrade to Windows 10.

pca3• 10 years ago

How many of the hundreds of millions of people using Windows computers are affected like this that don't have someone tech-savy to ask for help? There's no possible way Microsoft didn't think of this scenario, which can only mean that they simply do not care.

cm21875• 10 years ago

Well, Microsoft will parade you mum as part of the great success of the adoption rate and popularity of Windows 10!

iofj• 10 years ago

I feel your pain, but after migration to linux or mac you'll probably be using SaaS apps to do this. And at in this case you could reinstall.

In the "future" (ie. web apps and android apps), there won't be any control about software upgrades anymore. Even, or perhaps especially when they're really more downgrades than upgrades.

haddr2• 10 years ago

Rings a bell... Same happened to my mom when Google changed their Gmail UI. For us it seems like a small change but for older people this is really a tough thing. Well, we moved to an email client since then...

pca3• 10 years ago

Thanks for the warning. I'm not sure if they're being sleazy or just unthoughtful and incompetent. I already lost an afternoon with family, which I don't get to see that often, because I was forced to fix things that went wrong on their devices after the unexpected update. I had told them to "Just click the red x for now,if a message about Windows 10 pops up".

vog• 10 years ago

This has consequences even in the medical domain!

Recently I sat in the waiting room of a general practitioner (in Germany), where all patients had to wait because their main computer was unusable. That computer started an upgrade to Windows 10 against their will and almost all patients had to wait.

eps2• 10 years ago

They weren't running the Windows Server on their server then, which is a pretty reckless thing to do even without going into T&C aspects of it.

kuschku4• 10 years ago

My dentist – after having issues with this, and also hearing about the Snowden papers in the news in the past years – told me she was discussing with her IT guy to move to a Linux based system, as she’d just want it to work.

I’m not sure how far Wine has come, or if dentist software for Linux already is a thing, but I’ve heard more and more people discuss these things recently.

Windows 10 might finally be the time for Linux on the Desktop.

unixhero• 10 years ago

Install Linux Mint on it and you'll never get another phone call about using the computer again

pmlnr3• 10 years ago

I wanted to write the same line. Mint looks, feels and works as a good windows XP, but with up to date security and drivers, and is perfect for anyone who's using their computer for generic activities, eg. browsing, watching movies, etc.

Add a Google Chrome and you have Netflix & the rest, Skype works out of the box on Mint, and it has an 'app store' - also known as package manager for a decade in linux terms -, so there really is nothing missing from Mint for generic scenarios.

( No, you really don't need full back-and-forth MS Office compatibility in generic life and Libreoffice is doing a good job on compatibility. You also don't need Photoshop for generic, everyday users; there is Digikam, Gimp and Inkscape and countless others for the non-professionals, all of them are more than enough for someone who's not making a living of this. )

ryanl0l7• 10 years ago

Yeah until the users ISP drops them because of the kaiten sending outgoing DDoS.

RaleyField2• 10 years ago

Too bad Mint is done by cowboys.

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/why-the-linux-mint-hack-...

WorldMaker2• 10 years ago

Until the next LTS dist upgrade?

Linux doesn't solve the dist upgrade situation any better than Windows here: there's still a lot of cheese that moves around between dist upgrades. Sure, if you stick to LTS dist upgrades you restrict the amount of change to roughly once every two years, and if you use a particularly conservative distribution like Mint you can count on, for now, a fairly decent track record of trying to stay in a "Perpetual 90s" of GUI choices.

But even with Mint there are lots of little differences between dist upgrades, and especially if you stray conservative and only do LTS dist upgrades then your relatives also don't benefit from the slow gradual updates and are forced into the changes more jarringly.

(And yes, Windows 7 to Windows 10 is an LTS dist upgrade.)

yrro• 10 years ago

My brother's laptop (Dell Ispiron 15z) was upgraded to Windows 10 without his consent. After booting into Windows 10 wireless networking was non-functional. Dell themselves were fantastically passive-aggressive (and simultaneously useless, but at least I expected the latter):

"Dell is not testing or developing Windows 10 drivers for this product. If you choose to upgrade, some features, applications, and connected devices may not work as expected."

The laptop is only three years old! If I were him I would have returned it for a refund, but he doesn't have the time to migrate to another laptop right now so we eventually gave up, downgraded to Windows 7 and now he has to operate his laptop defensively, with Microsoft and their relentless upgrade treadmill as his adversary.

His next laptop will be a Mac.

toomanybeersies• 10 years ago

There is always the option of Linux.

torgoguys• 10 years ago

It's not just MS pushing new stuff on people without much warning. A similar thing happened to my mom with the iOS 6 => 7 update that overhauled the UI. People (understandably) freak when you move their cheese. Apple seems to have gotten more of a pass for it than Microsoft is here though.

If you read the actual dialog box, it reads fine. Really. It's not a trick. The big change is Windows 10 being classified as a "recommended" update. Turn off recommended updates (only take "critical" updates) if you don't want Microsoft changing functionality on your computer. It has been like that for a long time. This is a very extreme example of it though and MS knows that--that's why the box exists, I think--they don't "warn" you about other upcoming recommended updates. Yes, they could do more on that box to guide you towards cancelling the upgrade, but if they mean what they say that the update is "recommended," your dialogs should be guiding people towards getting it rather than away from it.

Again, the bigger thing to question here is the choice to make it "recommended," not the dialog box.

tunap3• 10 years ago

An as yet undetermined critical update just rechecked "recommended" for me yesterday when I specifically unchecked it before manually updating a fresh 7 install. Once the 1st round of 170 updates finished w/ a couple fails, I unintentionally/fortuitously clicked settings and saw the box checked. *This was updates before 3/27/2015, btw, I now need to vet the remaining ~170 of the 40 known/unwanted Win 10 malgrades.

kmfrk2• 10 years ago

I've ended up installing GWX Control Panel to thwart this BS: http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/.

Feel all sorts of ridiculous for having to do so, especially from a security perspective, but here we are.

I've read that one way to go about this is to create a disk image, upgrade to W10, and then restoring from your disk image back to whatever your current version is.

This way, you can also install W10 past the deadline of ultimo July - but Windows might continue nagging you in the inteim.

Haven't tried it, but at least you'll save the potential $100 if you intend to upgrade down the line.

beedogs• 10 years ago

Another great tool is the Aegis Win7/8 cleanup kit. It'll uninstall all of the Win10 nagware that seems to make it into every OS update. It also blocks a lot of the MS phone-home hosts and removes a bunch of other spyware Microsoft has backported to Win7 and 8 from 10.

"Block 197 bad hosts, change windows update to check/notify (do not download/install), disable automatic delivery of internet explorer via windows update, disable ceip/gwx/skydrive(aka onedrive)/spynet/telemetry/wifisense, disable remote registry, disable 31 scheduled tasks, disable windows 10 download directory, remove diagtrack, sync time to ntp.org, hide/uninstall 50 kb updates (see below)."

https://github.com/th3power/aegis-voat

https://voat.co/v/technology/comments/853510

ddeck• 10 years ago

Keep in mind that the prior windows key/OS combination may be invalidated by MS during (or at any point after) this process, leading them to treat a running instance of the prior OS as a pirated version.

cmdrfred• 10 years ago

I'm counting on it. When all this began I replaced my legit Windows 7 copy with a pirated one because it isn't eligible for the 'Windows 10 upgrade'.

kmfrk2• 10 years ago

Well that's just lovely.

satysin2• 10 years ago

Or just set two registry keys and never think about it again or have third party programs running

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/kb/3080351

Just save the following in a .reg file and run or add the keys manually and you never see any of the upgrade crap ever again. At least I never have since last July when I did this on a Win7 machine.

  Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

  [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
  "DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001

  [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\GWX]
  "DisableGWX"=dword:00000001

Piskvorrr27• 10 years ago

The problem with this is that malware keeps evolving: originally it used to be a single key, but look, people kept disabling it, canna have that, let's make it two keys. GWX has its own update, and keeps up with the squirming Windows Nein Update fairly well.

cm32• 10 years ago

Isn't it funny that Microsoft had this whole Scroogle campaign and now they're doing exactly that but much worse because they slip stuff you disable/removed back in via updates and updates cannot be selectively ignored/disabled in Windows 10 anymore?

tdkl3• 10 years ago

Someone on a more popular tech site needs to pull this out and write a piece about it (Verge, Ars).

baku-fr• 10 years ago

As I see it, the popup is merely a notification that the upgrade has been scheduled. Why not taking the time to read it and cancel the upgrade? It's been like that for years (remember "the computer will restart in 10 minutes" popup from Win7?)

powpowpao2• 10 years ago

Equally as bad is OSX. Decided to downgrade from El Capitan to Mountain Lion because I've a 2012 machine and my GPU blew under El Capitan. Now i can't access my iPad 2 Air because it's forcing me to upgrade iTunes and the only way to do that is to update back to El Capitan.

I have to commit the dirtiest, skankiest, filthiest trick by using Windows to access my iPad now.

edwinjm• 10 years ago

Can't you re-install from your original DVD?

vetinari4• 10 years ago

Provided there is an original DVD. Current machines do not come with one.

My MBP originally came with Yosemite, but at the time it was delivered, El-Capitan was already out. So I thought, that it will be easier to update, while the machine is not customized yet.

Now I don't know, how to downgrade. The Apple Store offers only El-Capitan for download, not Yosemite.

oceanswave2• 10 years ago

You don't need to connect to any device to update your iPad OTA updates have been standard for a reeeaaaallly long time now

powpowpao2• 10 years ago

Yes, don't need to connect to update, but if you want to transfer music, movies, photos in bulk to the iPad that isn't on iCloud or whatever, then no joy.

vmateixeira3• 10 years ago

Just in case anyone may be interested.. https://github.com/WindowsLies/BlockWindows

tgb2• 10 years ago

Okay Microsoft gets a ton of hate for the, but the standard for today is software that automatically updates and often even one cannot control update at all since the software resides in the cloud. Maybe this is the most egregious case so far, maybe it isn't, but it's clear that we'll be seeing a lot more of this in the future, not just from Microsoft.

Piskvorrr27• 10 years ago

Does that upgrade in the cloud result in nonfunctional computers? QED.

Sacho• 10 years ago

That's semantics. If my work depends on software that broke after an automatic upgrade, then the computer is "nonfunctional" to me. Alternatively, your computer isn't nonfunctional because Microsoft force-installed Windows 10 on it - you can still remove Windows and install something else.

I think it was foolhardy of Microsoft to "force" the update(or more aptly, trick people into updating) because it would be practically impossible to verify that the upgrade would go smoothly on all machines. However, I don't see their action as notably different from any other essential software I install on my computer.

tgb2• 10 years ago

Okay, clearly I made an unpopular comment. But I'll keep playing devil's advocate here. Yes, automatically updating software has long caused computers to become nonfunctional on occasion. This is not a first time, and in fact I haven't seen anyone complain about Windows 10 making their computer nonfunctional I've just seen complaints about it making it different. I'm sure someone has had problems with the Windows 10 update and that you can find an example. But I can also find examples of people with Service Pack updates (or even smaller ones) causing problems, for example.

If you were really only interested in the cloud software case (which I assume you singled out because you new the general case to obviously go against your argument), then yes, I still claim this happens in a very important sense. When gmail updated its interface, my mom stopped receiving some emails. Of course, they were hidden in different categories and she really was receiving them, but if she silently misses important emails... in what sense is the computer not nonfunctional? That's like 50% of what she does with it. Or in a more general sense, my parents' previous computer was slowly bogged down by a million iTunes updates that made it more and more of a system hog that made most of the rest of the computer unbearably slow.

My argument is that this is a matter of degree. Degree is significant, but people are acting as if this forced update is in a class of its own instead of being just the latest in a long (and growing) line of automatic updates that the consumer has less and less control over. Fight back against it if you wish, but don't pretend most software these days isn't doing (or wishing it could be doing) approximately this already.

None of this excuses the fact that they make it appear opt-out in manners that trick the consumer in to "opting in". That's just plain deception.

nmalaguti• 10 years ago

I find all of the outrage over this to be completely overblown. Everyone complains that OS upgrades are too difficult and so they desperately try to avoid them. This results in running 7 year old code that is going to stop being supported in a few short years.

Windows 10 is a free upgrade to a an operating system that will be supported for much longer than 7. Also, Windows has adopted a new release cycle that eschews long monolithic upgrades for a more continuous and easy to manage upgrade process. This may be the last time you need to hunker down and do a painful upgrade.

I empathize with non-technical users for whom this is a trying experience, but literally every other vendor gets a free pass because you replace your phone every few years, or you've adjusted to a yearly upgrade cycle that is pretty painless.

I feel like Microsoft is trying to give people what they want, and all they get in return is kicking and screaming. Until in a few years when they stop supporting older versions of Windows and your Mom gets infected with Randsomware. Then you'll still blame Microsoft, and won't be able to believe that they want to charge you $100 for the privilege of getting on a supported OS.

_ofdw• 10 years ago

I feel like Microsoft is trying to give people what they want, and all they get in return is kicking and screaming.

They're not giving me what I want. Windows 10 isn't what I want.

We wanted Windows 7 with modernizations, not Windows 8.1 with more spyware baked in.

Until in a few years when they stop supporting older versions of Windows and your Mom gets infected with Randsomware. Then you'll still blame Microsoft, and won't be able to believe that they want to charge you $100 for the privilege of getting on a supported OS.

What planet do you live on where "supported" means "immune to malware"?

6nf• 10 years ago

Win10 on 100% of my clients' desktops is what I want though.

WorldMaker2• 10 years ago

«We wanted Windows 7 with modernizations, not Windows 8.1 with more spyware baked in.»

Hahaha. I wanted Windows 10 to be an upgrade from Windows 8.1 not a downgrade to Windows 7.8. Windows 10 is absolutely a "Windows 7 with modernizations". It lost a lot of Windows 8's charm (literally as well as figuratively) due to complaints from the same vocal crowd that is whining about "spyware". Microsoft will never make y'all happy, but it's still trying, while meanwhile y'all will keep coming up with excuses why Microsoft is the devil and Windows n-2 was really the peak of what Windows should ever aspire to be.

(That said, I do really like Windows 10 and even if I'm disappointed it didn't carry through some of the things I really liked about Windows 8.1, I'd still rather use Windows 10 than Windows < 10.)

DanBC4• 10 years ago

There's a small number of people who don't need, nor want, this extra computing power. They were able to send email and read news and write documents in 1986 on a 286. Why the fuck does it take 4 GB Ram and a quad 2GHz processor to do the same today?

pmlnr3• 10 years ago

Because UX. /s

pmlnr3• 10 years ago

or you've adjusted to a yearly upgrade cycle that is pretty painless

Painless? Since when spending hours on restoring a working computer is painless?

Restoring my phone from a factory reset takes 4-6 hours with all the passwords, configs, apps, etc, if the phone is no rooted and backed up with some massively hacky 3rd party software.

Restoring my computer is 2-3 DAYS. Yes, days, because there are things I keep forgetting about and setting it up correctly if a long time. No, I'm not going to install everything on my desktop via ansible scripts.

executesorder66• 10 years ago

To remove all of MS's nagware and spyware on Win7 and 8 use this: https://github.com/th3power/aegis-voat#aegisvoat

frik• 10 years ago

This story lasted only 4 hours on HN frontpage, despite a lot of interest and engagement.

* Constant starting/shuttering of their mobile OS offerings.

* Using sock puppets, advertorials and other shady methods to shape opinion.

* Disregarding user privacy in Windows 10 (and extending that to Windows 7/8 via security updates)

* Forcing users of Windows 7/8 to update to Windows 10. It's basically malware at this stage.

dogma1138• 10 years ago

Maybe because every day a rant about this is being posted?

dhimes2• 10 years ago

A bit OT: Is there a reliable way to keep from sending the keystrokes back to the MS servers?

transpy2• 10 years ago

How come there is no legislation that limits what software corporations are allowed to do? Just imagine if regular companies that deal with physical stuff were allowed to do the same. It's like if they broke into your house to replace or 'upgrade' your stuff without your consent. Companies can literally break into people's homes and change stuff.

Microsoft won't back down from Windows 10 nagware 'trick'

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